NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Members' Reviews and Discussions (SPOILERS)

ColonelAdamski

Murdock wrote: »

Thanks for the kind words @mattjoes. Yeah it's a shame. I just found NTTD such a frustrating that it hurts my enjoyment of Casino given how the era ends.

One of the worst things about NTTD for me, was how it tainted the rest of the Craig era films. I haven't watched a Craig film since NTTD's release, and I used to re-visit one quite often before NTTD. I'm hoping I'll regain my enthusiasm in the future, as Casino and Skyfall are both great entries in the series. I just can't view them in the same way knowing how it all ends. It's silly really.
There's a guy on here that gets a lot of flack for hating NTTD without seeing it. To be honest, I can see his reasoning. If you find something out about a series that you don't like, it's okay to say 'I don't like that, I'm not going to watch it and I'm going to say I don't like it'.
I don't watch much TV, but I love the Peaky Blinders TV show, (it's filmed locally), and if I learned of a plotline that I was dead set against, I can imagine deciding not to watch the the show.

ringfire211

GBF wrote: »

The writing is to blame but not just with regard to the dialouge and his motivation. It is not really explained how he actually become that powerfull. How was he able to win over Valdo. How did he even know about Hercules? It is already quite hard to believe that SPECTRE knows everything, is everywhere and can do everything they want. But who is actually Safin? We don't know much about him and out of the sudden he alone is able to more or less kill everyone on earth. MR and TSWLM at least presented us two major villains with similar outlandish plans in a more aproriate way.

Exactly!! We know Stromberg is a powerful shipping magnate. Even Q exclaims “Stromberg?!! But he’s the richest man in the world!!” And we know Drax is a powerful space magnate and we see how embarrassed both M and the Minister of Defense are in his presence. So we get right off the bat how powerful these 2 are. But who’s Safin? He’s some whimpering kid who’s basically a shadow, a nobody. Yet he has access and resources to all this stuff that can end civilization. Yeah, ok. Even wipes out Spectre. Right.

Just goes to show that even during the silliness of the Roger Moore era they could write a satisfying background and motive for the villain. I mean how hard can it be???? But these current writers apparently don’t know how to do something so basic. And we had how many writers working on this thing? 4 or 5? Including Fukunaga himself? And Waller-Bridge who everyone was fawning over?? I mean this is embarrassing!!

MakeshiftPython

ColonelAdamski wrote: »

Murdock wrote: »

Thanks for the kind words @mattjoes. Yeah it's a shame. I just found NTTD such a frustrating that it hurts my enjoyment of Casino given how the era ends.

One of the worst things about NTTD for me, was how it tainted the rest of the Craig era films. I haven't watched a Craig film since NTTD's release, and I used to re-visit one quite often before NTTD. I'm hoping I'll regain my enthusiasm in the future, as Casino and Skyfall are both great entries in the series. I just can't view them in the same way knowing how it all ends. It's silly really.
There's a guy on here that gets a lot of flack for hating NTTD without seeing it. To be honest, I can see his reasoning. If you find something out about a series that you don't like, it's okay to say 'I don't like that, I'm not going to watch it and I'm going to say I don't like it'.
I don't watch much TV, but I love the Peaky Blinders TV show, (it's filmed locally), and if I learned of a plotline that I was dead set against, I can imagine deciding not to watch the the show.

He gets flack because he continues to gripe about a movie he hasn’t seen for FOUR MONTHS. It would be different if he just made his case and moved on. I don’t get that behavior. I’m a fan of DC Comic superheroes, but theres films I never bothered to watch because I didn’t like what I saw. But I didn’t go on relevant threads talking about how it’s the worst thing and that I’ll never ever see it for months on. I just go find something else to enjoy.

Creasy47

Deciding not to watch something and hating it without having even seen it are two entirely different things, though.

MakeshiftPython

Creasy47 wrote: »

Deciding not to watch something and hating it without having even seen it are two entirely different things, though.

I agree. It’s silly.

Creasy47

MakeshiftPython wrote: »

Creasy47 wrote: »

Deciding not to watch something and hating it without having even seen it are two entirely different things, though.

I agree. It’s silly.

And as you say, if you hate it without having seen it, then no need to keep going on about it, Bond fans on a Bond forum discussing the latest Bond film or not. I'd at least entertain such comments had the member bothered to see the film in full.

Birdleson

Nice piece @Murdock , sad to say that much of it hit home. I can still isolate and enjoy the first three Craig entries, but I agree that I now find the run as a whole unpleasant and misguided (in terms off where I feel the franchise's strength lies, the financial returns are not my concern).

mattjoes

Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »

mattjoes wrote: »

Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »

mattjoes wrote: »

Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »

mattjoes wrote: »

For me, Safin was the weakest villain of the Craig era, certainly much worse than Greene. I really like the background of the character, but when he takes center stage in the last part of the film, I don't really enjoy watching him. It's both in the writing and the acting.

I was pretty disappointed in Safin myself and would also consider him the least of Craig's villains. I had really high expectations for the character as Rami Malek appeared to be a quite fascinating, intelligent, and animated personality in interviews. In the film, he does little more than mumble about how he's Bond's equal and some vague plan about making the world a better place by apparently indiscriminately releasing a nano-plague through selling to the highest buyer. Try as I might, I can't make sense of what Safin really wants, besides money I guess. But apart from his motives being vague, I just don't find much to appreciate in Malek's performance. Even Waltz's Blofeld was more animated and more interesting. Likewise Mathieu Amalric, whom I always enjoyed as Greene.

It's tempting to imagine how to rewrite that scene where Bond and Safin talk, and clarify and improve all that muddled stuff Safin says. To me, it would be better if he said he has lived full of pain, hate and resentment since he was orphaned as a child, and he feels that life is full of suffering and regrets, so it's a waste of time to bother living, therefore he is going to kill absolutely everyone, including Madeleine, who awoke something deep in him all those years ago, and with whom he's going to spend his final hours. He's saving humanity (and her) in his own twisted way, an invisible god sparing the world from the misery of existence. No comparisons between Bond and Safin's killing methods, no talk about being tidier, no talk about evolving the world.

Maybe you'd have to make some changes at earlier points of the script to make everything consistent, but his motivations would make much more sense, and would be more impactful.

Malek's performance is pretty flat. He is very good at playing a total nutcase, but that's not enough. His presence is uninteresting; there's nothing really distinctive in how he behaves (not the same as what he does). He never gets too excited, he barely gets exasperated at one point when talking with Bond. He's too one-note. And a real "rapport" is never created between Bond and Safin; I feel Safin could be talking to any secret agent and nothing would be different on his part. The script is at fault there.

I too like Greene.

Giving Safin a morbid and completely defeatist world outlook would have been a fresh twist on the supervillain agenda and would also have given him a clear and understandable motive, however twisted. All he wants to do now is die in the company of his imagined family (Madeleine and Mathilda) while taking the rest of the world out at the same time. You get rid of any buyers coming to the island because what does he need money for? Instead, he's launching long-range missiles loaded with Heracles around the globe, and Bond has no way of stopping the launch. So he does what he can: he ends Safin and gets Madeleine and Mathilda off the island.

Then it becomes about Bond doing the impossible again—stopping a missile launch when there's no way to stop it, which is straight out of Fleming's Moonraker. He takes out Felix's cigar and stands under the center rocket and prepares to light up amidst the fumes. Right before he flicks the flame on, he smiles wistfully and says, "The boy stood on the burning deck" (in reference to something mentioned earlier in the film). Then Bond takes the rockets out along with himself, saving the world one final time. That's a sacrifice an audience could easily and immediately have understood and an ending for Craig's Bond I could actually have fully gotten behind.

Edit: Better yet, Bond gets Madeleine and Mathilda off the island first. Then catches up with Safin and tries to get the launch codes out of him. To ensure his twisted plan succeeds, Safin kills himself by eating one of his toxic plants (putting them to some actual use in the film). Then we get that wonderful scowl of Craig's and he can go ahead and put a couple bullets in Safin anyway like he does in the film before heading for the rockets.

Very good! I too had thought launching missiles with Heracles would have made for a better countdown scenario. I like the reference to Moonraker and the nod to Felix.

Now that you mention Safin's death, during one of my watches of NTTD, I thought that when lying on the water, it could have been a interesting touch to see Safin take out the noh mask and put it on for the last time, like a kid holding on to a doudou for comfort. It might have made him appear a little too infantile, though, so I'm not entirely sure I would have gone for it. But it could have been quite creepy.

The noh mask was a very cool touch in that opening sequence. You're right, it certainly could have been brought back again later on, beyond showing it to Madeleine in her office, and it would have made Safin's demise even more chilling. It is odd though why they went with this Japanese motif for the character (the noh mask, the kimono he wears during the climax) when Safin clearly isn't Japanese himself and there are no other connections to Japan in the film. I suspect those were leftovers from earlier drafts, like the toxic garden, where the film was perhaps more closely tied to the novel YOLT.

That would make sense.

In the finished film, I suppose we're meant to think that since Safin's family owned the island at one point, they must have visited Japan on multiple occasions and become familiar with its culture.

RichardTheBruce

MakeshiftPython wrote: »

ColonelAdamski wrote: »

There's a guy on here that gets a lot of flack for hating NTTD without seeing it. To be honest, I can see his reasoning. If you find something out about a series that you don't like, it's okay to say 'I don't like that, I'm not going to watch it and I'm going to say I don't like it'.

He gets flack because he continues to gripe about a movie he hasn’t seen for FOUR MONTHS.

Over. And over. And over.

Some_Kind_Of_Hero

mattjoes wrote: »

Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »

mattjoes wrote: »

Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »

mattjoes wrote: »

Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »

mattjoes wrote: »

For me, Safin was the weakest villain of the Craig era, certainly much worse than Greene. I really like the background of the character, but when he takes center stage in the last part of the film, I don't really enjoy watching him. It's both in the writing and the acting.

I was pretty disappointed in Safin myself and would also consider him the least of Craig's villains. I had really high expectations for the character as Rami Malek appeared to be a quite fascinating, intelligent, and animated personality in interviews. In the film, he does little more than mumble about how he's Bond's equal and some vague plan about making the world a better place by apparently indiscriminately releasing a nano-plague through selling to the highest buyer. Try as I might, I can't make sense of what Safin really wants, besides money I guess. But apart from his motives being vague, I just don't find much to appreciate in Malek's performance. Even Waltz's Blofeld was more animated and more interesting. Likewise Mathieu Amalric, whom I always enjoyed as Greene.

It's tempting to imagine how to rewrite that scene where Bond and Safin talk, and clarify and improve all that muddled stuff Safin says. To me, it would be better if he said he has lived full of pain, hate and resentment since he was orphaned as a child, and he feels that life is full of suffering and regrets, so it's a waste of time to bother living, therefore he is going to kill absolutely everyone, including Madeleine, who awoke something deep in him all those years ago, and with whom he's going to spend his final hours. He's saving humanity (and her) in his own twisted way, an invisible god sparing the world from the misery of existence. No comparisons between Bond and Safin's killing methods, no talk about being tidier, no talk about evolving the world.

Maybe you'd have to make some changes at earlier points of the script to make everything consistent, but his motivations would make much more sense, and would be more impactful.

Malek's performance is pretty flat. He is very good at playing a total nutcase, but that's not enough. His presence is uninteresting; there's nothing really distinctive in how he behaves (not the same as what he does). He never gets too excited, he barely gets exasperated at one point when talking with Bond. He's too one-note. And a real "rapport" is never created between Bond and Safin; I feel Safin could be talking to any secret agent and nothing would be different on his part. The script is at fault there.

I too like Greene.

Giving Safin a morbid and completely defeatist world outlook would have been a fresh twist on the supervillain agenda and would also have given him a clear and understandable motive, however twisted. All he wants to do now is die in the company of his imagined family (Madeleine and Mathilda) while taking the rest of the world out at the same time. You get rid of any buyers coming to the island because what does he need money for? Instead, he's launching long-range missiles loaded with Heracles around the globe, and Bond has no way of stopping the launch. So he does what he can: he ends Safin and gets Madeleine and Mathilda off the island.

Then it becomes about Bond doing the impossible again—stopping a missile launch when there's no way to stop it, which is straight out of Fleming's Moonraker. He takes out Felix's cigar and stands under the center rocket and prepares to light up amidst the fumes. Right before he flicks the flame on, he smiles wistfully and says, "The boy stood on the burning deck" (in reference to something mentioned earlier in the film). Then Bond takes the rockets out along with himself, saving the world one final time. That's a sacrifice an audience could easily and immediately have understood and an ending for Craig's Bond I could actually have fully gotten behind.

Edit: Better yet, Bond gets Madeleine and Mathilda off the island first. Then catches up with Safin and tries to get the launch codes out of him. To ensure his twisted plan succeeds, Safin kills himself by eating one of his toxic plants (putting them to some actual use in the film). Then we get that wonderful scowl of Craig's and he can go ahead and put a couple bullets in Safin anyway like he does in the film before heading for the rockets.

Very good! I too had thought launching missiles with Heracles would have made for a better countdown scenario. I like the reference to Moonraker and the nod to Felix.

Now that you mention Safin's death, during one of my watches of NTTD, I thought that when lying on the water, it could have been a interesting touch to see Safin take out the noh mask and put it on for the last time, like a kid holding on to a doudou for comfort. It might have made him appear a little too infantile, though, so I'm not entirely sure I would have gone for it. But it could have been quite creepy.

The noh mask was a very cool touch in that opening sequence. You're right, it certainly could have been brought back again later on, beyond showing it to Madeleine in her office, and it would have made Safin's demise even more chilling. It is odd though why they went with this Japanese motif for the character (the noh mask, the kimono he wears during the climax) when Safin clearly isn't Japanese himself and there are no other connections to Japan in the film. I suspect those were leftovers from earlier drafts, like the toxic garden, where the film was perhaps more closely tied to the novel YOLT.

That would make sense.

In the finished film, I suppose we're meant to think that since Safin's family owned the island at one point, they must have visited Japan on multiple occasions and become familiar with its culture.

That is actually a good explanation for the Japanese influence on him. I suppose that is the region of the world where he grew up.

RichardTheBruce

Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »

mattjoes wrote: »

Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »

mattjoes wrote: »

Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »

mattjoes wrote: »

Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »

mattjoes wrote: »

For me, Safin was the weakest villain of the Craig era, certainly much worse than Greene. I really like the background of the character, but when he takes center stage in the last part of the film, I don't really enjoy watching him. It's both in the writing and the acting.

I was pretty disappointed in Safin myself and would also consider him the least of Craig's villains. I had really high expectations for the character as Rami Malek appeared to be a quite fascinating, intelligent, and animated personality in interviews. In the film, he does little more than mumble about how he's Bond's equal and some vague plan about making the world a better place by apparently indiscriminately releasing a nano-plague through selling to the highest buyer. Try as I might, I can't make sense of what Safin really wants, besides money I guess. But apart from his motives being vague, I just don't find much to appreciate in Malek's performance. Even Waltz's Blofeld was more animated and more interesting. Likewise Mathieu Amalric, whom I always enjoyed as Greene.

It's tempting to imagine how to rewrite that scene where Bond and Safin talk, and clarify and improve all that muddled stuff Safin says. To me, it would be better if he said he has lived full of pain, hate and resentment since he was orphaned as a child, and he feels that life is full of suffering and regrets, so it's a waste of time to bother living, therefore he is going to kill absolutely everyone, including Madeleine, who awoke something deep in him all those years ago, and with whom he's going to spend his final hours. He's saving humanity (and her) in his own twisted way, an invisible god sparing the world from the misery of existence. No comparisons between Bond and Safin's killing methods, no talk about being tidier, no talk about evolving the world.

Maybe you'd have to make some changes at earlier points of the script to make everything consistent, but his motivations would make much more sense, and would be more impactful.

Malek's performance is pretty flat. He is very good at playing a total nutcase, but that's not enough. His presence is uninteresting; there's nothing really distinctive in how he behaves (not the same as what he does). He never gets too excited, he barely gets exasperated at one point when talking with Bond. He's too one-note. And a real "rapport" is never created between Bond and Safin; I feel Safin could be talking to any secret agent and nothing would be different on his part. The script is at fault there.

I too like Greene.

Giving Safin a morbid and completely defeatist world outlook would have been a fresh twist on the supervillain agenda and would also have given him a clear and understandable motive, however twisted. All he wants to do now is die in the company of his imagined family (Madeleine and Mathilda) while taking the rest of the world out at the same time. You get rid of any buyers coming to the island because what does he need money for? Instead, he's launching long-range missiles loaded with Heracles around the globe, and Bond has no way of stopping the launch. So he does what he can: he ends Safin and gets Madeleine and Mathilda off the island.

Then it becomes about Bond doing the impossible again—stopping a missile launch when there's no way to stop it, which is straight out of Fleming's Moonraker. He takes out Felix's cigar and stands under the center rocket and prepares to light up amidst the fumes. Right before he flicks the flame on, he smiles wistfully and says, "The boy stood on the burning deck" (in reference to something mentioned earlier in the film). Then Bond takes the rockets out along with himself, saving the world one final time. That's a sacrifice an audience could easily and immediately have understood and an ending for Craig's Bond I could actually have fully gotten behind.

Edit: Better yet, Bond gets Madeleine and Mathilda off the island first. Then catches up with Safin and tries to get the launch codes out of him. To ensure his twisted plan succeeds, Safin kills himself by eating one of his toxic plants (putting them to some actual use in the film). Then we get that wonderful scowl of Craig's and he can go ahead and put a couple bullets in Safin anyway like he does in the film before heading for the rockets.

Very good! I too had thought launching missiles with Heracles would have made for a better countdown scenario. I like the reference to Moonraker and the nod to Felix.

Now that you mention Safin's death, during one of my watches of NTTD, I thought that when lying on the water, it could have been a interesting touch to see Safin take out the noh mask and put it on for the last time, like a kid holding on to a doudou for comfort. It might have made him appear a little too infantile, though, so I'm not entirely sure I would have gone for it. But it could have been quite creepy.

The noh mask was a very cool touch in that opening sequence. You're right, it certainly could have been brought back again later on, beyond showing it to Madeleine in her office, and it would have made Safin's demise even more chilling. It is odd though why they went with this Japanese motif for the character (the noh mask, the kimono he wears during the climax) when Safin clearly isn't Japanese himself and there are no other connections to Japan in the film. I suspect those were leftovers from earlier drafts, like the toxic garden, where the film was perhaps more closely tied to the novel YOLT.

That would make sense.

In the finished film, I suppose we're meant to think that since Safin's family owned the island at one point, they must have visited Japan on multiple occasions and become familiar with its culture.

That is actually a good explanation for the Japanese influence on him. I suppose that is the region of the world where he grew up.

The family picture sure looks Japanese. From the start I thought Safin was Japanese background and the film confirmed it to me.

There's a known ethnic Japanese presence in Russia. A much larger ethnic Korean population is there as well. Anyway, Safin made sense and his Russian-looking staff members made equal sense based on the location.

Some_Kind_Of_Hero

RichardTheBruce wrote: »

Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »

mattjoes wrote: »

Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »

mattjoes wrote: »

Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »

mattjoes wrote: »

Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »

mattjoes wrote: »

For me, Safin was the weakest villain of the Craig era, certainly much worse than Greene. I really like the background of the character, but when he takes center stage in the last part of the film, I don't really enjoy watching him. It's both in the writing and the acting.

I was pretty disappointed in Safin myself and would also consider him the least of Craig's villains. I had really high expectations for the character as Rami Malek appeared to be a quite fascinating, intelligent, and animated personality in interviews. In the film, he does little more than mumble about how he's Bond's equal and some vague plan about making the world a better place by apparently indiscriminately releasing a nano-plague through selling to the highest buyer. Try as I might, I can't make sense of what Safin really wants, besides money I guess. But apart from his motives being vague, I just don't find much to appreciate in Malek's performance. Even Waltz's Blofeld was more animated and more interesting. Likewise Mathieu Amalric, whom I always enjoyed as Greene.

It's tempting to imagine how to rewrite that scene where Bond and Safin talk, and clarify and improve all that muddled stuff Safin says. To me, it would be better if he said he has lived full of pain, hate and resentment since he was orphaned as a child, and he feels that life is full of suffering and regrets, so it's a waste of time to bother living, therefore he is going to kill absolutely everyone, including Madeleine, who awoke something deep in him all those years ago, and with whom he's going to spend his final hours. He's saving humanity (and her) in his own twisted way, an invisible god sparing the world from the misery of existence. No comparisons between Bond and Safin's killing methods, no talk about being tidier, no talk about evolving the world.

Maybe you'd have to make some changes at earlier points of the script to make everything consistent, but his motivations would make much more sense, and would be more impactful.

Malek's performance is pretty flat. He is very good at playing a total nutcase, but that's not enough. His presence is uninteresting; there's nothing really distinctive in how he behaves (not the same as what he does). He never gets too excited, he barely gets exasperated at one point when talking with Bond. He's too one-note. And a real "rapport" is never created between Bond and Safin; I feel Safin could be talking to any secret agent and nothing would be different on his part. The script is at fault there.

I too like Greene.

Giving Safin a morbid and completely defeatist world outlook would have been a fresh twist on the supervillain agenda and would also have given him a clear and understandable motive, however twisted. All he wants to do now is die in the company of his imagined family (Madeleine and Mathilda) while taking the rest of the world out at the same time. You get rid of any buyers coming to the island because what does he need money for? Instead, he's launching long-range missiles loaded with Heracles around the globe, and Bond has no way of stopping the launch. So he does what he can: he ends Safin and gets Madeleine and Mathilda off the island.

Then it becomes about Bond doing the impossible again—stopping a missile launch when there's no way to stop it, which is straight out of Fleming's Moonraker. He takes out Felix's cigar and stands under the center rocket and prepares to light up amidst the fumes. Right before he flicks the flame on, he smiles wistfully and says, "The boy stood on the burning deck" (in reference to something mentioned earlier in the film). Then Bond takes the rockets out along with himself, saving the world one final time. That's a sacrifice an audience could easily and immediately have understood and an ending for Craig's Bond I could actually have fully gotten behind.

Edit: Better yet, Bond gets Madeleine and Mathilda off the island first. Then catches up with Safin and tries to get the launch codes out of him. To ensure his twisted plan succeeds, Safin kills himself by eating one of his toxic plants (putting them to some actual use in the film). Then we get that wonderful scowl of Craig's and he can go ahead and put a couple bullets in Safin anyway like he does in the film before heading for the rockets.

Very good! I too had thought launching missiles with Heracles would have made for a better countdown scenario. I like the reference to Moonraker and the nod to Felix.

Now that you mention Safin's death, during one of my watches of NTTD, I thought that when lying on the water, it could have been a interesting touch to see Safin take out the noh mask and put it on for the last time, like a kid holding on to a doudou for comfort. It might have made him appear a little too infantile, though, so I'm not entirely sure I would have gone for it. But it could have been quite creepy.

The noh mask was a very cool touch in that opening sequence. You're right, it certainly could have been brought back again later on, beyond showing it to Madeleine in her office, and it would have made Safin's demise even more chilling. It is odd though why they went with this Japanese motif for the character (the noh mask, the kimono he wears during the climax) when Safin clearly isn't Japanese himself and there are no other connections to Japan in the film. I suspect those were leftovers from earlier drafts, like the toxic garden, where the film was perhaps more closely tied to the novel YOLT.

That would make sense.

In the finished film, I suppose we're meant to think that since Safin's family owned the island at one point, they must have visited Japan on multiple occasions and become familiar with its culture.

That is actually a good explanation for the Japanese influence on him. I suppose that is the region of the world where he grew up.

The family picture sure looks Japanese. From the start I thought Safin was Japanese background and the film confirmed it to me.

There's a known ethnic Japanese presence in Russia. A much larger ethnic Korean population is there as well. Anyway, Safin made sense and his Russian-looking staff members made equal sense based on the location.

I guess I just hadn't considered the possibility as the actor isn't Japanese and the character's name is Russian. I also didn't realize there was much Japanese presence in Russia, but that does all make sense given how close they are geographically. Perhaps Safin is of both Russian and Japanese descent.

GeneralGogol

Safin is a Tatar last name. Tatars and a lot of other ethnic groups in Russia have Asiatic facial features. I think the Safin family just had a big fondness for Japanese culture, given the location of the poison island.