Dr. No versus the field: Skyfall

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Comments

  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,090
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: OP
    Henchman: OP
    Overall Plot: OP
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: OP
    Settings: OP
    Action: OP
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 11
    OP: 6
  • suavejmfsuavejmf England
    Posts: 3,968
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Looks rather harsh there, do you really consider the action in DN better than OP’s?

    DN is very much in keeping with Flemings novel and the fight scenes and minor action sequences are brutal and serious. OP's pre title sequence is great as is the finale. But the rest is always marred by overt humour. Again I love Roger.....but I prefer Connery.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf England
    Posts: 3,968
    GBF wrote: »
    I agree, OP is probably the most suspensefull Bond film which is bizarre when you think of all the campy stuff in the film. You have already mentioned the race against the clock but there are also the great post title sequence, Bond sneaking around in the Monsson Place, the assault of the Indian assassins and Bond's revenge on Grischka. The dark colours and Barry's excellent score support that feeling....

    I find LTK and AVTK far more suspenseful.....as Sanchez and Zorin are far more menacing villains.
  • NSGWNSGW London
    edited February 2018 Posts: 299
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: OP
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: OP
    Settings: DN
    Action: OP
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: OP
    Suspense: OP
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 12
    OP: 5
  • Title Track: OP
    Title Credits: OP
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: OP
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: OP
    Settings: OP
    Action: OP
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: OP
    Benign Bizarre: OP
    Suspense: OP
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    OP-9
    DN-8

    This doesn't mean that I think OP is better. These categories are not weighted equally (like Overall Plot is way more important than the title credits, etc.) and some of the categories in which DN leads are big. But I am a bit lower than DN than most, so...
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited March 2018 Posts: 2,647
    Title Track: DN ('All Time High' is near the bottom of bond title songs. Bond theme takes it apart and then some)

    Title Credits: DN (OP's is in Binder's fallow period. I really enjoy the zippy DN titles.)

    Main Villain: DN (OP's are spread too thin. DN is in my top 5 bond villains)

    Main Bond Girl: OP (Even though I find OP a little overrated as a Bond girl she has more impact on the plot than Honey. But despite a little initial mystery OP falls into bed with Bond immediately and it deflates any tension between the characters. Maud is a good match with Roger though, but I prefer her performance in TMWTGG. I think objectively OP is a better Bond girl but I prefer Honey)

    Henchman: OP (I like Gobinda. He's a memorable, menacing presence)

    Overall Plot: OP (I love DN's straightforward plot and sinister villain but OP's Cold War espionage and mystery elements leading up to the ticking bomb makes for a good narrative drive.)

    Dialogue: DN (Even though OP has its moments I prefer DN's taut, deadly dialogue.)

    Score: OP (Barry is on great form here. '009 gets the knife and Gobinda Attacks' is a personal favourite of mine, I love the 'dangerous' edge that Barry brought to his last three Bond soundtracks and it starts with OP.)

    Settings: DN ((I really love DN's setting - it's iconic and special. I don't think Glen does an outstanding job with making India really shine. It feels a little more studio bound which isn't the best. However It's actually OP's Cold War settings that I find irresistible.)

    Action: OP (the yo-yo saw attack at octopussy's palace, the PTS and the plane stunts in the climax.)

    Humour: DN (OP's broad humour is awful but it has some sly stuff I like. But I like DN's more.)

    Cinematography: DN (I love the way Jamaica is captured and there is something enchanting about the look of those early 60s Bond - DN and FRWL in particular.)

    Benign Bizarre: DN (close but will give it to DN for metal hands, tarantulas, three blind mice, dragons, DN checking out a naked, drugged bond.)

    Suspense: OP (DN has better suspense across the narrative than OP which oscillates quite drastically but it's the excellent train chase and bomb sequence that win it for OP)

    Minor Characters: DN (except for Vijay I prefer the lethal characters of DN)

    Glamour: DN (OP has a lot of glamour but DN's is undeniable.)

    Bond Performance: DN (Connery at his best.)

    DN: 11
    OP: 6

    Much closer than I would have thought. I adore DN and OP is bottom half Bond for me. I've been more generous here and given suspense and Bond girl to OP - otherwise it would have been a landslide to DN.

    OP's attack at Kamal kahn's palace is a sequence too far. OP benefits enormously from Barry's soundtrack (imagine if it had to contend with something similar to Conti's FYEO attempt).

    But having recently rewatched OP is a good time.
  • We're going to keep this one moving along, so...final entries?
  • Posts: 19,339
    Title Track: OP
    Title Credits: OP
    Main Villain: OP
    Main Bond Girl: OP
    Henchman: OP
    Overall Plot: OP
    Dialogue: OP
    Score: OP
    Settings: OP
    Action: OP
    Humour: OP
    Cinematography: OP
    Benign Bizarre: OP
    Suspense: OP
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: OP
    Bond Performance: OP

    OP-16
    DN-1

    Blimey,i like OP but that was a massacre.
  • Posts: 372
    Title Track: OP (I love Bond ballads)

    Title Credits: OP (one of my favorites - love the colors!)

    Main Villain: OP (between Kamal Khan and Orlov - it's no contest!)

    Main Bond Girl: DN (Maud and Rog have fine chemistry but Ursula set the standard)

    Henchman: OP (Gobinda, Mishka, Grishka - no contest!)

    Overall Plot: OP (wonderfully labyrinthine Cold War plot, mixed with elegance and class)

    Dialogue: OP (come on - it's Rog delivering the lines!)

    Score: OP (it's Barry so it's no contest, and this isn't even among his strongest scores - AVTAK and especially TLD would be much better)

    Settings: OP (love the contrast between lush opulence of India and cold grit of Germany)

    Action: OP (no comment)

    Humour: OP (yes the Tarzan, gorilla, palace assault, and clown stuff at the end was unnecessary but the humor of Rog's films always makes me smile - it's all in his delivery and his reactions to the situations around him)

    Cinematography: OP (Alan Hume's work is lush and beautiful, and the stalking of 009 through the forest at the beginning was wonderfully shot)

    Benign Bizarre: DN (yes the early Connery films definitely have the monopoly on the bizarre, which I do love - 3 blind mice, dragon, metal hands, tarantulas, sisters Lily and Rose lol)

    Suspense: OP (with the exception of the tarantula and Dent meeting Dr. No, OP has more suspenseful moments on the whole)

    Minor Characters: OP (this is close but I think OP gets the edge - Magda, Vijay, Gogol, Fanning, and Q at his best)

    Glamour: OP (this is also very close but OP is just more opulent with its glamour I think - from Sotheby's to all the palaces and riches of India)

    Bond Performance: DN (very close too - I actually think Rog gives one of his best performances in OP but his age was starting to creep up on him; Connery is iconic in his first)

    OP: 14
    DN: 3
  • Posts: 512
    Despite some of the humor in the film, I prefer "Octopussy" over "Dr. No". Besides, I've never been a fan of the 1962 film and I've always been a fan of the 1983 one.
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 3,236
    It was a close round of battle, but after the votes were all counted, the score was 199-187-5 for Dr. No. The original Bond also held on to win the total games 13-10 against Sir Rog's penultimate adventure. Now DN moves on to face the end of an era in A View To A Kill. I'll put down my score first, following tradition...

    Title Track: AVTAK (DANCE! INTO THE FIRE! I just can't deny it.)
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN (Christopher Walken is great, but he just can't hold up to the quiet menace of Dr. Julius No.)
    Main Bond Girl: DN (JAAAAAAAAAAAAMES)
    Henchman: AVTAK (Counting May Day as henchwoman, if she goes under minor characters it probably pushes AVTAK over the edge)
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: AVTAK (thanks to @ringfire211)
    Settings: DN (A Bond set in Silicon Valley is an interesting idea, but AVTAK doesn't do much with it.)
    Action: AVTAK (The mine massacre gets it over the line, somehow.)
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN (But it's closer than you'd think.)
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    14-3 for DN!

    A well-expected blowout, but AVTAK still gets its hits in. Well, that's enough from me. How will your scores look?
  • Posts: 3,251
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: AVTAK
    Settings: DN
    Action: AVTAK
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    15 - 2 to DN
  • Posts: 372
    It was a close round of battle, but after the votes were all counted, the score was 199-187-5 for Dr. No. The original Bond also held on to win the total games 13-10 against Sir Rog's penultimate adventure. Now DN moves on to face the end of an era in A View To A Kill. I'll put down my score first, following tradition...

    Title Track: AVTAK (DANCE! INTO THE FIRE! I just can't deny it.)
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN (Christopher Walken is great, but he just can't hold up to the quiet menace of Dr. Julius No.)
    Main Bond Girl: DN (JAAAAAAAAAAAAMES)
    Henchman: AVTAK (Counting May Day as henchwoman, if she goes under minor characters it probably pushes AVTAK over the edge)
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN (A Bond set in Silicon Valley is an interesting idea, but AVTAK doesn't do much with it.)
    Action: AVTAK (The mine massacre gets it over the line, somehow.)
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN (But it's closer than you'd think.)
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    14-3 for DN!

    A well-expected blowout, but AVTAK still gets its hits in. Well, that's enough from me. How will your scores look?

    I'm really confused by something here. How does the DN score beat the AVTAK score?? The weakest Barry (or non-Barry, for that matter) score should easily beat Norman's non-score. AVTAK is an exceptional Barry score! Between this and TLD Barry really went out on a high note!
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 2,122
    This is rather fun! I am wishing I found this thread before AVTAK but here is goes!

    Title Track: AVTAK
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: AVTAK
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: AVTAK
    Settings: AVTAK (Paris, San Fran! Two great cities and both get used to full effect!)
    Action: AVTAK
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: AVTAK
    Suspense: AVTAK (it gets tense when the brake gets stuck and it looks like curtains for 007!)
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: AVTAK (lunch in the Eiffel Tower! That right there trumps DN)
    Bond Performance: DN

    Final Score is 9 DN and 7 AVTAK...wow I am surprised AVTAK did so well.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Upper Downside
    Posts: 35,387
    Title Track:AVTAK
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: DN
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    16 - 1 to DN
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Station B, Belgium
    Posts: 3,867
    Title Track: AVTAK
    Title Credits: AVTAK
    Main Villain: AVTAK
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: AVTAK
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: AVTAK
    Settings: DN
    Action: DN
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: AVTAK
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN 11
    AVTAK 6
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 1,031
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: AVTAK
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: AVTAK
    Settings: DN
    Action: AVTAK
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: AVTAK
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN 13
    AVTAK 4
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 2,899
    Title Track: AVTAK
    Title Credits: AVTAK
    Main Villain: AVTAK
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: AVTAK
    Overall Plot: AVTAK
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: AVTAK
    Settings: AVTAK
    Action: AVTAK (Is there any memorable action scene in DN?)
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: AVTAK
    Benign Bizarre: AVTAK
    Suspense: AVTAK (For Zorin and Mayday alone)
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: AVTAK (I take AVTAK's French castle scenes over DN's dinner scene)
    Bond Performance: DN

    AVTAK 12 : DN 5
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 2,899
    I guess people will usually just vote on how much they overall like the film without going much into the details. For me it is hard to understand why people rate the action in DN (which hardly exists) higher than that in AVTAK. The score is another example. How can anyone honestly say that DN has a better score than AVTAK?
  • Posts: 19,339
    Title Track: AVTAK
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: AVTAK
    Main Bond Girl: AVTAK
    Henchman: AVTAK
    Overall Plot: AVTAK
    Dialogue: AVTAK
    Score: AVTAK
    Settings: DN
    Action: AVTAK
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: AVTAK
    Suspense: AVTAK
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN 7
    AVTAK 9


    Not that much of a shock,i do like AVTAK,it is more re-watchable and entertaining.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Station B, Belgium
    edited March 2018 Posts: 3,867
    GBF wrote: »
    I guess people will usually just vote on how much they overall like the film without going much into the details. For me it is hard to understand why people rate the action in DN (which hardly exists) higher than that in AVTAK. The score is another example. How can anyone honestly say that DN has a better score than AVTAK?

    I’ll give you the score, but the action goes to DN because AVTAK has such an obvious use of stuntmen and it actually isn’t trying the hide that.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    Posts: 28,203
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: AVTAK
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: AVTAK
    Settings: DN
    Action: AVTAK
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: AVTAK
    Suspense: AVTAK
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN 12
    AVTAK 5
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 559
    Title Track:DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: DN
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    Dr 17- AVTK -0

    I love AVTAK title track, but not over the Bond theme. And while Barry is the master, the music from Dr No I find more evocative of Jamaica and love that too. Action is both good and too cartoony in AVTAK so I couldn’t give it there either. I was never a fan of Grace Jones so no, plus their sex scene gives the creeps. I tried though, I did.

  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,699
    Title Track: AVTAK (Favourite!!!)
    Title Credits: AVTAK
    Main Villain: AVTAK
    Main Bond Girl: AVTAK
    Henchman: AVTAK
    Overall Plot: AVTAK
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: AVTAK
    Settings: AVTAK
    Action: AVTAK
    Humour: AVTAK
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: AVTAK
    Glamour: AVTAK
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN 5
    AVTAK 12


  • Posts: 363
    Title Track: AVTAK
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: AVTAK
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: AVTAK
    Settings: DN
    Action: AVTAK
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: AVTAK
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN - 12
    AVTAK - 5
  • Posts: 3,761
    DoctorNo wrote: »

    I love AVTAK title track, but not over the Bond theme. And while Barry is the master, the music from Dr No I find more evocative of Jamaica and love that too. Action is both good and too cartoony in AVTAK so I couldn’t give it there either. I was never a fan of Grace Jones so no, plus their sex scene gives the creeps. I tried though, I did.

    Except it isn't the Bond Theme, but that badly edited medley.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    Posts: 28,203
    vzok wrote: »
    DoctorNo wrote: »

    I love AVTAK title track, but not over the Bond theme. And while Barry is the master, the music from Dr No I find more evocative of Jamaica and love that too. Action is both good and too cartoony in AVTAK so I couldn’t give it there either. I was never a fan of Grace Jones so no, plus their sex scene gives the creeps. I tried though, I did.

    Except it isn't the Bond Theme, but that badly edited medley.

    Which includes the Bond theme.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited March 2018 Posts: 2,647
    Title Track: AVTAK (this is a trailblazing effort from Duran Duran and the opening bars gets the blood pumping.)

    Title Credits: DN (AVTAK is in the middle of Binder's fallow period)

    Main Villain: AVTAK (very close. Zorin is a memorable, cold and menacing villain. DN would win this in iconic terms, but in plot terms and screen time Zorin triumphs. Walken is having a blast and he doesn't have a weak scene.)

    Main Bond Girl: DN (Honey is iconic. Stacey Sutton is forgettable - when she's not annoying.)

    Henchman: AVTAK (Grace Jones is a top shelf Bond heavy)

    Overall Plot: DN (After the Paris opening AVTAK's plot drags for large chunks of the film. Even though the ending picks things up a bit.)

    Dialogue: DN (For Doctor No and Bond's dialogue alone. AVTAK has some comedy clangers.)

    Score: AVTAK (Wonderful. One of my favourite Bond soundtracks - Snow Job, Stacey meets Bond and Golden Gate Fight are amazing series highlights.)

    Settings: AVTAK (Jamaica in DN is so magical and sets up Bond exoticism so well. It's an eternal favourite. But I'm giving this to AVTAK because it uses the Eiffel Tower so well and a good race beside and on top of the Seine. But the kicker is I truly love San Francisco as a cinematic city - and as a place to visit!)

    Action: AVTAK (the PTS action is good, the Paris car chase and final act has some good action sequences.)

    Humour: DN (AVTAK's humour is pretty ordinary. DN has the deadpan and dark humour down pat)

    Cinematography: DN (love the way Jamaica is captured.)

    Benign Bizarre: AVTAK (close but butterfly death, steroid babies, carwash deaths, Grace Jones)

    Suspense: DN (AVTAK has some good individual suspense scenes mainly the Paris chase and the finale but it has large chunks that pall.)

    Minor Characters: DN (I like Macnee and Fullerton but I prefer Quarrel and Felix Leiter)

    Glamour: DN (62' Bond glamour beats '85 bond glamour)

    Bond Performance: DN (Connery at his finest beats Moore at his oldest)

    DN - 10
    AVTAK - 7


    DN is easily top ten Bond for me so these categories flatter AVTAK which is hovering in the bottom third of Bond films for me. But it has some excellent elements when split up like this. The locations, the villains, title song and it has one of my favourite soundtracks ever.
  • It was a close round of battle, but after the votes were all counted, the score was 199-187-5 for Dr. No. The original Bond also held on to win the total games 13-10 against Sir Rog's penultimate adventure. Now DN moves on to face the end of an era in A View To A Kill. I'll put down my score first, following tradition...

    Title Track: AVTAK (DANCE! INTO THE FIRE! I just can't deny it.)
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN (Christopher Walken is great, but he just can't hold up to the quiet menace of Dr. Julius No.)
    Main Bond Girl: DN (JAAAAAAAAAAAAMES)
    Henchman: AVTAK (Counting May Day as henchwoman, if she goes under minor characters it probably pushes AVTAK over the edge)
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN (A Bond set in Silicon Valley is an interesting idea, but AVTAK doesn't do much with it.)
    Action: AVTAK (The mine massacre gets it over the line, somehow.)
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN (But it's closer than you'd think.)
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    14-3 for DN!

    A well-expected blowout, but AVTAK still gets its hits in. Well, that's enough from me. How will your scores look?

    I'm really confused by something here. How does the DN score beat the AVTAK score?? The weakest Barry (or non-Barry, for that matter) score should easily beat Norman's non-score. AVTAK is an exceptional Barry score! Between this and TLD Barry really went out on a high note!

    Oh!

    I meant to pick AVTAK. I knew something was off about my score. Amending now, thank you very much.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 2,981
    Title Track: AVTAK
    Title Credits: AVTAK
    Main Villain: AVTAK
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: AVTAK
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: AVTAK
    Settings: DN
    Action: AVTAK
    Humour: AVTAK
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: AVTAK
    Suspense: AVTAK
    Minor Characters: AVTAK
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    10-7 AVTAK
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