It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
^ Back to Top
The MI6 Community is unofficial and in no way associated or linked with EON Productions, MGM, Sony Pictures, Activision or Ian Fleming Publications. Any views expressed on this website are of the individual members and do not necessarily reflect those of the Community owners. Any video or images displayed in topics on MI6 Community are embedded by users from third party sites and as such MI6 Community and its owners take no responsibility for this material.
James Bond News • James Bond Articles • James Bond Magazine
Comments
I can't believe you don't like that chase @Mendes4Lyfe. I'd even put it top 10 from the franchise. The colours, the camera angles that Campbell uses to create the vertiginous feeling as Bond is fighting on the crane, the pacing, the fear in Mollaka's eyes as he realizes how relentless Bond is - all of this is top class imho.
Moreover, as you note, there are a few instances where Bond uses his brains to catch up with the more athletic Mollaka, and that's pure Bond.
Different strokes I guess.
I enjoy it greatly, I just think it's overindulgent. We the audience aren't given enough reason to care, so I just think the length is a bit redundant. Compare this to the Miami sequence (that truly is the standout sequence for me - it has the most impact in the story), where we have a slow build up, following this guy to the airport, things keep ratcheting up. When the action breaks out, I'm totally along for the ride. I'm willing to believe that Bond will go that extra mile, and push himself physically to the limit to stop what is about to happen.
The parkour chase is a bit videogame like by comparison. We're given the bare minimum of information and Bond starts climbing massive cranes, smashing through walls, storming buildings singlehanded. I'm kind of disconnected when Bond can just bulldoze through everything with only flesh wounds to show for it. I think a better sequence would have been if Bond had lost the perp after the building site bit, and had to infiltrate the embassy undercover. Then the perp pulls a gun, Bond shoots him and has to escape before the guards arrive. When ever I see that bit of Craig and perp walking down the hallway with bullets flying all around them I'm remained of Bond and Natalyas escape from the Russian military base. That Campbell was one crafty f%ker, I'll tell you that for true!
That's what I call on topic
I LOVE SPECTRE :D
Let me reinforce again what those are, in no particular order, for appreciation aficionados:
1. funeral scene and chat up (most Bondian moment I've seen from Craig in a while)
2. White
3. Hinx fight
4. assassination of hit men at Lucia's
5. tracking shot and Newman's score
6. L'Americaine
Yeah, the funeral scene and the health spa scenes are really reminiscent of TB IMO. Craig is full blown Bond in both those, and it just shows how he has mastered the role over the years.
Precisely. It's action that informs the narrative. A lot of films rarely seem to achieve such a thing these days. The SP plane chase, on the other hand, is the most lacklustre sequence in the film IMO. When the parkour chase starts the outcome is up in the air and as a viewer it builds and builds then twists and turns until Bond is backed into a corner. It's perfect escalation. When the plane chase starts it's obvious Bond will rescue Madeleine and thus you spend 5 mins sitting through an incredibly linear sequence, where every beat is telegraphed and nothing is spontaneous or sends the action off in a different direction.
As much as it pains me to say it, it's almost as trite as the TWINE alpine sequence.
If you take SF as a comparison, which I think is completely fair given the circumstances, look at how the opening sequence plays out. It's choreographed and it's kinetic, but it's not linear. There are peaks and troughs and Bond does unexpected things that shift the momentum along the way. Not only that, but the switch of focus through Bond, MP. M and Patrice informs the narrative. Action causes reaction, which in turn has repercussions and that is exactly what drives the film forward, narratively.
Again, taking two sequences completely out of context and making a direct comparison. I'm fairly sure that the SF sequence is about twice as long as the one in SP, which is what allows for so many shifts in perspective.
Absolutely spot-on.
SP has great action scenes including the already classic plane chase sequence.
SF has great action as well, although some of it feels overly choreographed.
I don't get why people complain about Mendes not being good at action. There's a lot of action in SF like the Skyfall sequence which is bloody freaking great. Or the PTS.
The same applies to SP and to even a larger degree. The PTS is a masterpiece in itself and the plan chase, the train fight, the escape from the crater lair...all wonderfully shot and exciting.
They're both primarily written by the same scribes, directed by the same man and produced by the same team, plus they're both chases in which Bond is the pursuer and has an item he must retrieve (The Drive/Madeleine). The fact they are visually and dynamically different does not take away from the fact they are pursuits both crafted by the same people. One weaves in threads of the narrative, the other doesn't. One is thrilling, the other isn't.
And the fact the SF sequence is longer is irrelevant, the plane chase has ample time to craft some sort of through-line and let's, for arguments sake, say they don't want to be bothered with telling a story through the action, they could at least set out to make it the most thrillingly ludicrous chase imaginable. They did neither and what we're left with is a veritable damp squib.
It's phrases like 'the already classic plane chase' that mean I can't take you seriously. It's as far from being a classic as the Antonov fight in DAD. Next to aerial sequences such as those in TLD and the astonishing Acrostar hangar set-piece in OP it doesn't even come close. If I were you I'd be embarrassed.
It's not 'longer'. It's twice as long. And I'm not talking about 'narrative through-line' or 'shifting perspective' or whatever, I'm talking about aesthetics. This (speaking generally about SP) is some of the best shot action of the Craig era. Simple as that. :D
I could shoot a snail race and make it look fucking incredible. Doesn't make it an exciting and exhilerating experience.
However, 'in motion' it's distinctly lacking tension, for all the reasons that have been mentioned.
This is an excellent point about the 'linear' nature of it. I have never thought about that before. I've said before that SP reminds me of TWINE on the action front, but I never quite knew why. Both films lack excitement in the action sequencing for me, and the predictable linearity of it is probably the reason.
That's great but I'm not talking about that, though. I'm talking about the Craig Bond films.
At least Spectre has taken away the focus on Brosnan as No 1 bashing object :))
For now... :-S
Yes Bond is a risk taker to get the job done but hes a gambler who plays the percentages not an idiot. I cannot understand the thought process of what he is trying to do in this scene. ‘The best way to resolve the situation is to deliberately crash my plane and assume it will all turn out OK’ seems to be his thinking.
Even if he doesn’t accidentally smash the wings off the plane (as I don’t think this is his intent) who does he think is going to come off worse in a crash between himself in a pretty flimsy looking plane and a large SUV with airbags, seatbelts etc?
It’s ludicrous to deliberately crash your plane as if plan A doesn’t work they escape and at best you’re left waiting for the AA and at worst end up with your head 100 yards from your bollocks as you get splattered across the forest. Neither of these two outcomes are as satisfactory as just following them to see where they go. And if they shoot Madeline in the face and throw her corpse out of the door who cares? You have a lead in Hinx so Madeline is not the be all and end all of the mission. In any case it’s a total lottery through Bond’s actions whether or not Madeline lives or dies as she could just have easily been in one of the cars that explodes or killed when Bond’s plane hits her car.
The second (and more crucial) problem in making the ‘already classic plane chase’ even more dull and pedestrian is that once the wings get knocked off Bond is a passenger and is entirely reliant on luck (OK and a little turn of the rudder) to achieve his objective. This is the fatal flaw in the scene. Bond should resolve whatever challenge he is facing using his ingenuity and wits not by putting it in the lap of the gods. By making Bond as passive as a sack of spuds you lose any tension that is built up in the opening when he flies alongside them which is the best part of the scene before it sadly quickly unravels.
The negativity some obviously need to constantly hit in everybody's face really is taking the fun out this forum from time to time.
And I'm not referring to @bondjames or @Mendes4Lyfe just to be clear. My statement is not about this thread necessarily.
However, it was not complementary, because I have issues with it and it appears that others do to.
If we can learn something about why we feel a certain way about something through discussion and learn from other's perspective in the process, then I personally think that's always a good thing. I did learn something today, about the linearity, and I'm grateful we had the discussion.
Having said that, I will now exit this thread and leave it for exclusive 'loving', which I realize was the original intention. At least we've increased the number of pages on this thread, which is somewhat miniscule, so there has been some positive contribution.
As I said above I didn't mean you. You are one of the few that are actually able to discuss something objectively and that's always a good thing.
I'm just fed up with the constant battering on Spectre in most threads. It's on the level of last years vendetta against Brosnan. It's really annoying.
Well said, I quite agree.
Why do you assume that merely because someone doesn't agree with you they are not being objective?
Your constant 'SP is the greatest thing since someone invented pizza and blowjobs' tirade is also really annoying but the price we pay for living in a world where we tolerate free speech means we just have to put up with it don't we.
The best thing invented since pizza and blowjobs is GoldenEye and not Spectre.
Unfortunately, you can pick apart literally all of the action scenes in SP if you wanted to.
Helicopter Fight Why don't the people have general common sense to at least try to clear out of the square immediately? And isn't Bond endangering people below by throwing Sciarra and the pilot down?
Car Chase Why is no one else around?
Plane Chase What is Bond's plan? And through this reckless behaviour doesn't he endanger Madeleine anyway? And how can he not have been expecting the wings to come off? And when the wings do come off, why don't the cars just turn the other way so that Bond can't follow them - Bond certainly can't turn around.
Hinx Fight How did Hinx get on the train, and why does he try to kill Bond if Blofeld has been 'waiting' to have a reunion?
Shootout Why doesn't Bond experience any of the after-effects of Blofeld's torture? Why is Bond not only able to shoot down his pursuers with ridiculously perfect aim and at the same time magically evade all shots at the end?
Mi6 Building How did Madeleine scream if she is gagged, why didn't Blofeld think of something better, and why is there a safety net (is it to catch rubble or something?)
Boat Chase The boat seems to be a bit of a miracle really. And how does Bond take down a helicopter with a popgun?
The action just wasn't written very well. Not very cerebral. All of it is filmed very nicely of course though.
Then maybe you should take it up with people on other threads. I've just looked back over the last couple of pages and the criticism is incredibly objective. Especially next to some of your own subjective platitudes. The only reason I responded was because someone had alluded to a comment I made on a different thread and after all this is a discussion forum. Appreciation threads are all well and good in theory, but they seem a little to close to internet safe spaces IMO.