Let's talk about Spectre's torture scene

1568101113

Comments

  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    edited December 2015 Posts: 972
    Just so you know, in reality, that is a helium release valve on the watch. Not an actual button. Used occasionally no doubt in the Brosnan-era to activate bombs, laser etc...

    In Spectre, the watch did not have the helium valve. Bond had to push down the crown and rotate the bezel to arm the C4 in the watch. Again, makes you wonder how he knew how to arm it..haha.. Maybe I'm just thinking too much into this, perhaps Q briefed him on it off screen or something. But yeah, the whole torture scene was like an exploding Omega watch commercial.. I still love it because it brought back the Bond gadgets!

    23221466260_1d6e64e190_z.jpg
    Birdleson wrote: »
    But how does he know that it sets for one minute's time?

    Another good point!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,730
    Standard timing, DUH.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,340
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Standard timing, DUH.
    Standard operating procedure. Boys with toys. ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    imranbecks wrote: »
    The actual watch from Omega doesn't have an actual alarm. So how would he know how to activate the alarm? This isn't some digital G-Shock watch...LOL
    Birdleson wrote: »
    But how does he know that it sets for one minute's time?
    Bond is known to be a genius when it comes to Q branch gadgets. In TSWLM he drives off before Q finishes giving him instructions on the Lotus, and in DAD he shoots the instruction manual in the tube station. If he could figure out how to use such complex machinery so quickly, then this watch is a relative piece of cake. He could have seen the blueprint for the watch somewhere as well (like Anya for the car in TSWLM).
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 972
    Yeah.. I just remembered that in TSWLM, he wasn't briefed about the Lotus's underwater function as well..LOL
  • Posts: 5,767
    imranbecks wrote: »
    Yeah.. I just remembered that in TSWLM, he wasn't briefed about the Lotus's underwater function as well..LOL
    We saw in SP how he finds out about the functions of the car ;-)...

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,008
    Bond just must be born knowing all of this technical stuff I suppose... ;)
  • Posts: 2,116
    Well it wouldnt be a very fun movie if there was a 30 minute section where Q teaches Bond how to use the gadgets.
  • Posts: 4,622
    It's no mystery how Bond knows how to use his toys. He makes a point of knowing.
    It's.just not shown on screen
    But think back to Fleming, there are many examples of Bond doing detailed mission prep.
    Interestingly here is some concept art from Spectre that clearly shows the orginial card game/dinner scene.

    $_57.JPG
    http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzUwWDEwMDA=/z/5M0AAOSwfZ1WYL3P/$_57.JPG

    The art direction seems to be in total contrast to Oberhauser's information room, for that reason I kinda like it. I enjoy that his private quarters are a little more theatrical and flamboyant.
    Such a missed opportunity!! Way better than the God awful torture tedium.
    This could have been a quality riff on DN dinner scene.
    But if I recall from the leaked Dec script, the watch was also used to make Bond's escape, so the product placement goals would have been satisfied.
    The dialogue though was rather atrocious and the Blofeld reveal was terrible I thought.
    The card game or whatever it was, involved the two of them.playing some stupid game from their childhood.
    So I am glad that the scene was radically rewritten.
    But the dining room setting could have been retained arrghhh.
    Mendes you pooched it right up.
    Shows you how they never really had this story together, and had to keep reenvisioning scenes, even just before shooting began
  • edited February 2016 Posts: 1
    Not entirely sure if its already been discussed as I just skimmed the majority of the comments.

    The torture scene is simple if you notice Blofeld's group of drones in the intelligence building they all stand at attention after he shuts down the monitors. This implies to me they have all gone through the lobotomy procedure he is about to put Bond through, in an attempt to make him his slave. Of course he escapes before the procedure is completed.

    Not to mention the sterile rooms he had prepared for them to live in with pictures of people they would no longer recognize.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    I don't mind that torture scene. I just found that it had no impact on the film. Bond seems to be even in a better condition after it. They should have addressed his vulnerability after that sequence. Instead of that he becomes a superhuman action hero who can destroy the villain's lair with only a few shots. It is also way too easy for him to escape.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117

    To be fair Blofeld only says 'if the needle hits the right point...'

    Clearly Blofeld is shit at doing it as he missed meaning Bond was just left with two pinpricks so he has no problem shooting all the guards.

    I think some people are thinking that he is actually drilling into Bond's brain but in the novel Sun just stimulated very sensitive nerve endings, which while very painful at the time, would not leave much in the way of ill effects. In fact correct me if I'm wrong someone as I haven't read it for some time but in CS doesn't Bond also shoot his way out in similar fashion after the torture?
  • Posts: 4,602
    Coming to this thread late:
    I found it really weird that the actual point of torture was shown. The human imagination can usually come up with imagery that is far worse than that on the screen. Hence, with the shower scene in Psycho, you never see any cutting but viewers insisted they did , and with Speilberg, in Jaws, some of the most horrific scenes are above the water and you can only imagine what is happening beneath the water. And the ear cutting scene in Resevoir Dogs, we hear the screams and see the damage but even with the graphic style of director, we dont see the blade touch the ear. So I found it very strange and a big let down when you actually see the point of incision. (In CR, we did not get a camera looking up at Bond's backside but that scene was far more effective, plus we saw he needed to recover)

    It just does not work, plus, as others have mentioned, the recovery is cartoon like and undermines the whole point of the scene. I really dont know what the director was thinking of.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited February 2016 Posts: 28,694
    lapinsk wrote: »
    Not entirely sure if its already been discussed as I just skimmed the majority of the comments.

    The torture scene is simple if you notice Blofeld's group of drones in the intelligence building they all stand at attention after he shuts down the monitors. This implies to me they have all gone through the lobotomy procedure he is about to put Bond through, in an attempt to make him his slave. Of course he escapes before the procedure is completed.

    Not to mention the sterile rooms he had prepared for them to live in with pictures of people they would no longer recognize.

    That's a very interesting theory, @lapinsk, that I hadn't really thought of. The whole film SPECTRE agents bow to Blofeld's every whim, so I never thought for one moment that some of them might've actually undergone some "brain surgery" as it were. A commentary track could've helped us understand this a bit more, perhaps? Of course, the not knowing does make it more eerie, I confess.
  • Posts: 4,602
    He may have just paid them well?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Nobody wants a drill in their head, or their eyes gouged out. That's motivation enough maybe.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    patb wrote: »
    He may have just paid them well?
    Money?
    bondjames wrote: »
    Nobody wants a drill in their head, or their eyes gouged out. That's motivation enough maybe.

    Threats?

    Hmmm, I know where my motivation would be.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    patb wrote: »
    He may have just paid them well?

    I can see how there are theories exploring other solutions besides payment though. Watching that scene, it's extremely ominous how they all stop their work and stand up at the exact same moment. It makes them look controlled/programmed for real. It's one of my favorite aspects of SP.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    They mistook Blofeld for me. The lighting was poor.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Birdleson, I could definitely see Waltz's Blofeld doing that, actually. He very much likes to watch people dance like puppets on strings. I could see him the entire time thinking from the shadows, "see, James, look at all I can do with just a few words. Are you impressed?"
  • edited February 2016 Posts: 1,310
    Gave Spectre a watch again with my blu ray purchase. I was reminded that the whole torture scene wastes the audience's time. We're told that the drill will affect sight, hearing, balance etc etc and then....absolutely none of that happens. I know this has been brought up just a few posts ago, but why explicitly mention those things if they're just going to be ignored? Bond just gets up and shoots everyone in the entire base. He isn't even affected later on in the film. Might as well have just cut the whole torture scene and have the Blofeld reveal in the surveillance room.

    The concept of Blofeld revealing himself during the scene does make sense, but the set up, scene execution and follow up was poor.
  • I personally prefer the torture scene in CR.
    Much better done, with more menace.
  • The problem with the torture scene in SP is that it has no lingering effect on Bond. In fact, it seems to have the opposite of the appropriate effect - he simply becomes god.

    Rewatch the sequence were Bond and Madeline shoot their way out of the base. It is so badly choreographed that Bond seems to be some sort of god - never getting hit, shooting down enemies from over the shoulder and the end sequence where he has perfect aim is just too hard to believe.

    Then at the very end he shoots down a helicopter with a popgun... Which might be possible, I guess I wouldn't know, but it is a cheat...
  • @Birdleson
    I suppose you might be right ostensibly, but I think if any era was missing an homage it was the Dalton era.
    I would actually argue that superficially, SP is a throwback to the Connery and Lazenby days, but that's just the coat with which the movie is painted. On the inside, SP is really another Brosnan flick - another overblown movie with explosive and contrived action, but with little emphasis on plot.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,340
    @Birdleson
    I suppose you might be right ostensibly, but I think if any era was missing an homage it was the Dalton era.
    I would actually argue that superficially, SP is a throwback to the Connery and Lazenby days, but that's just the coat with which the movie is painted. On the inside, SP is really another Brosnan flick - another overblown movie with explosive and contrived action, but with little emphasis on plot.

    Like that's a bad thing. What Bond movie doesn't have explosions or contrived action? It's escapist fantasy not a documentary or police procedural. The Bond series has always been that way not Citizen Kane. Just because a Bond movie has explosions and actions scenes doesn't make it bad. And to single out Brosnan's run as just that? Really? I can think of examples in Every Bond film that had a contrived sequence and over blown explosion.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    SJK91 wrote: »
    Gave Spectre a watch again with my blu ray purchase. I was reminded that the whole torture scene wastes the audience's time. We're told that the drill will affect sight, hearing, balance etc etc and then....absolutely none of that happens. I know this has been brought up just a few posts ago, but why explicitly mention those things if they're just going to be ignored? Bond just gets up and shoots everyone in the entire base. He isn't even affected later on in the film.

    Blofeld says it 'might' do these things. He's clearly just shit at doing it.
    The problem with the torture scene in SP is that it has no lingering effect on Bond. In fact, it seems to have the opposite of the appropriate effect - he simply becomes god.

    Rewatch the sequence were Bond and Madeline shoot their way out of the base. It is so badly choreographed that Bond seems to be some sort of god - never getting hit, shooting down enemies from over the shoulder and the end sequence where he has perfect aim is just too hard to believe.

    Then at the very end he shoots down a helicopter with a popgun... Which might be possible, I guess I wouldn't know, but it is a cheat...

    We just need a quick scene at the end of the film with Sir James Molony giving Bond the once over at MI6 saying,

    'Well 007 you were lucky. The drill missed the part of the brain that deals with facial recognition by 1mm. It seems to have gone into the part that deals with hand eye coordination instead. You haven't noticed anything different have you? I'd expect one of the symptoms to be having incredible aim?'
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    The scene isn't too disappointing in of itself, but Bond's immediate recovery and almost cartoonish gunning down of the thugs right after this sequence is what's abhorrent to me.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Just want to reaffirm my comments from earlier on this thread, having watched the film yesterday again.

    My impression of the torture scene is that it's gratuitous and redundant. The cat & the Blofeld reveal could have been done effectively in the control room. I would have preferred that.

    The only addition that this scene allowed for is a convenient premise for Madeline to profess her love for Bond, and for the Omega watch to become useful. My earlier memory of this scene in the theatre was accurate - they flashed the watch at the start of this scene, so I knew in the theatre that Bond would find a way to arm it and get himself out of this fix. That deflated some of the tension, and just made all the screaming, blood and the verbal torture by Blofeld unnecessary.

    I have no problem with the way the scene was composed though. It's chilling.

    My only acting comment would be Seydoux. She sits in that chair knock knee'd and clutching her fingers (no doubt to suggest fear). It's not convincing, but it is childlike. She does somewhat the same thing during the meteor scene when talking with Blofeld. A more effective actress would have shown her fear through her facial expressions, rather than via these more obvious techniques.
  • edited February 2016 Posts: 1,595
    I sort of like the tortue scene aesthetically and it's a nice old school scene minus Madelaine's character moments. That stuff doesn't ring true at all.

    That said, I love (sarcasm) how Blofeld says "this needle will disorient your senses and affect your balance" or something like that and then drills right into Bond's head, and THEN Bond escapes and doesn't miss a single shot kills every henchmen in the lair and blows the place up.

    LOL - Bond should have had difficulty walking out the door, much less efficiently take out the entire compound.

    I'm okay with contrived action scenes and big explosions, it's when they don't make ANY sense at all within the four walls of the movie. That's when I quibble.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I pretty much agree with what's already been said. The scene would've been one of the best in the film for me if 1) Bond was shown to have actual damage in his ability to move or aim his gun 2) it took great effort for him to shoot his way out of the compound and 3) Madeleine was forced to pick up a gun and help him, adding another layer of her character that was planted during the gun scene on the train.

    I honestly can't believe Mendes and co. let this scene pass the way it is. It makes no sense the way it's constructed, and it would have been so damn easy to make it better. Just show Bond being affected...somehow, for crying out loud!
Sign In or Register to comment.