Let's talk about Spectre's torture scene

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  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited November 2015 Posts: 4,413
    What was Bond's exploding watch then, in SP? A rolex, or some unnamed watch?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    royale65 wrote: »
    What was Bond's exploding watch then? A rolex, or some unnamed watch?
    It was always Omega (since Brosnan took over) but they did the watch gadget to death in the 90's. You may be right, maybe there wasn't actually a gadget on it in DAD (2002) but still, it's tiresome even after 16 yrs (since TWINE) because of how often they did it in the 90's.

    Prior to that, I think only Moore had a gadget on his watch once or twice (LALD with a Rolex, & OP with a digital watch I think).
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,413
    And don't forget the ticker-tape in Spy, in the PTS.
  • Posts: 11,189
    There was a gadget on it in DAD - the lazer that Bond uses to cut through the ice.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    royale65 wrote: »
    And don't forget the ticker-tape in Spy, in the PTS.
    Yes, that's true.

    I think it's time to go back to a knife in a case again. The best gadget of all imho.

    Or if Omega must get their product placed, at least have the villain pull the watch from his hand before he can do some trickery with it...that would be a neat twist.
  • Posts: 11,425
    How about they give him a Swatch with a range of different colour interchangeable faces? Cool or what?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Actually, just thinking about the SP scene again made me realize that it does actually homage LALD. I think Rog's Rolex also flashes red in the 'markers' when it's doing it's thing as a magnet, as does Craig's when the timer is being set.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,610
    bondjames wrote: »
    Actually, just thinking about the SP scene again made me realize that it does actually homage LALD. I think Rog's Rolex also flashes red in the 'markers' when it's doing it's thing as a magnet, as does Craig's when the timer is being set.

    Yes, well spotted!
  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    Posts: 403
    The exploding watch in MR
    The printing watch in TSWLM

    Not sure why every one is getting their panties in a bunch over the DB5; it's a classic and iconic car. I love seeing it. It's icon status is as deserved ort not as GF's.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I would've enjoyed seeing it go the route of DN where Bond and Madeleine arrive, check out their rooms, relax for a while, and whether or not they're drugged, they have a long dinner scene with ESB after seeing the meteorite, which is all then followed by the control room scene and torture scene with a more definite conclusion instead of reverting back to London for more action.

    [quote="Getafix;526735" A dinner scene was definitley needed.

    [/quote]
    bondjames wrote: »
    I had advocated for the dinner scene too
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    They should've had a dinner scene
    Getafix wrote: »
    If they are saving the dinner scene until the next one then that's fine.
    bondjames wrote: »
    People have dinner, and Bond likes food. So, if anything I'd argue it's been too long since we saw a) a Bond villain mealtime conversation and b) enjoying a fine meal or some fine wine.
    I agree, and I'm not averse to a dinner scene going forward. I too think we are long overdue. There is a certain refinement to dinners that suits the Bond universe.[/quote]

    All this talk makes me hungry.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Ironic that the coolest gadget watch was also one of the simplest and oldest (Red Grant garrote watch).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Sark wrote: »
    Ironic that the coolest gadget watch was also one of the simplest and oldest (Red Grant garrote watch).
    True. Forgot about that one. Keep it simple....keep it brutal.....keep it real.. Always works best.
  • Posts: 4,622
    If I want to watch this kind of garbage I'll watch the Saw films.
    They do torture porn much better..
  • Posts: 5,767
    Getafix wrote: »
    They've actually ruined a lot of the iconic status and enjoyment of the DB5 for me. I'm sick of the sight of it. Talk about scraping the barrel. Flogging a dead horse. Robbing a corpse. ETC etc.

    Spot on Sir - well compared to the other thread. ;)

    I was so happy to see the f**king thing finally blown to buggery only for them to be unable to stop themselves from bringing it back to life. It seems like as soon as P&W run out of ideas (which is fairly often) they reach for this infernal thing like a crack pipe. And Jesus are they addicted.
    Why is everything blamed on P&W? Don´t you guys do any research at all? Both Cambell and Mendes mentioned that they wanted the DB5 in the script.


    BAIN123 wrote: »
    There was a gadget on it in DAD - the lazer that Bond uses to cut through the ice.
    Ripped off NSNA ;-).


    Not sure why every one is getting their panties in a bunch over the DB5; it's a classic and iconic car. I love seeing it. It's icon status is as deserved ort not as GF's.
    Because it detracts from the actual Bond movie. Between the title scene of TB and the title scene of GE, Bond films had the cohones to be Bond films without the slightest trace of the DB5. Now it´s mainly inserted into the films to remind people that they´re watching a Bond film. It would be better to let the film speak for itself.



    One point about the SP torture scene is, it´s weird how much DAD is criticised for being so unrealistic, but this torture scene is hailed, despite its realism being on a par with DAD at least.



    And why did Bond have to make such a lame quip about parking the Aston at the bottom of the Tiber? Couldn´t he have said something a little sharper, like, "Don´t worry about the Aston, I put it in an airtight hiding place", or something like that?
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    The DB5 was fine. As for the torture scene, it was pretty brutal but I think I remember being more traumatized by the torture scene in CR. Probably because this was a Bond I wasn't expecting, it was the most serious bond film yet. Really though the SP one was probably the roughest one to watch.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    This is Mendes channeling Nolan again. The DB5 has become the Batmobile. Something that Bond must have. An extension of himself. It's a damn shame it got applause in SF.

    I'll add gadget laden Omegas to that as well. I know we haven't seen it since 2002 (I think), but really, I'm done with it.

    Why do you hate it so much.

    You could also say that Martin Campbell and Sam Mendes wanted to step away from all previous pre-Brosnan films by giving the DB5 a more important role of a signature car. That's how I see it.

    And I find it rather repulsive how you blaim Mendes for being Nolan-esque, when it is actually Campbell you start pointing fingers at.

    Moreover, may I remind you that Bond is a franchise? One could equally reason to get rid of Q, Moneypenny, M, Tanner, because they look too much like a Clone of the "Mission: Impossible" team.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    No torture scene beats the one in AVTAK.

    Yes, that one.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    No torture scene beats the one in AVTAK.

    Yes, that one.

    Do you mean the torture of actually sitting down and watching it, @Thunderfinger?
    bondjames wrote: »
    This is Mendes channeling Nolan again. The DB5 has become the Batmobile. Something that Bond must have. An extension of himself. It's a damn shame it got applause in SF.

    I'll add gadget laden Omegas to that as well. I know we haven't seen it since 2002 (I think), but really, I'm done with it.

    Why do you hate it so much.

    You could also say that Martin Campbell and Sam Mendes wanted to step away from all previous pre-Brosnan films by giving the DB5 a more important role of a signature car. That's how I see it.

    And I find it rather repulsive how you blaim Mendes for being Nolan-esque, when it is actually Campbell you start pointing fingers at.

    Moreover, may I remind you that Bond is a franchise? One could equally reason to get rid of Q, Moneypenny, M, Tanner, because they look too much like a Clone of the "Mission: Impossible" team.

    I adore the DB5, and haven't gotten the criticisms either. As it has been said, Astons are a staple of the series, and the DB5 specifically for a good while now. I guess I'm just a sucker for classic, nostalgic beauty. They don't make cars like her anymore.

    aston-martin-db5-06.jpg
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    No torture scene beats the one in AVTAK.

    Yes, that one.

    Do you mean the torture of actually sitting down and watching it, @Thunderfinger?

    Good one, but I meant the bed scene.
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 972
    I like the scene mostly because it introduced us to the loud alarm of his watch...! Thought it was pretty cool. There goes an $8000 watch...lol
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited November 2015 Posts: 28,694
    imranbecks wrote: »
    I like the scene mostly because it introduced us to the loud alarm of his watch...! Thought it was pretty cool. There goes an $8000 watch...lol

    Mendes missed his chance to make the watch tone Monty Norman's original Bond theme. The anti-referential Bond brigade would've been overjoyed by that, I wager. :D
    No torture scene beats the one in AVTAK.

    Yes, that one.

    Do you mean the torture of actually sitting down and watching it, @Thunderfinger?

    Good one, but I meant the bed scene.

    I figured as much, but you are no doubt familiar with the insatiable desire to joke for a joke's sake.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    This is Mendes channeling Nolan again. The DB5 has become the Batmobile. Something that Bond must have. An extension of himself. It's a damn shame it got applause in SF.

    I'll add gadget laden Omegas to that as well. I know we haven't seen it since 2002 (I think), but really, I'm done with it.

    Why do you hate it so much.
    Hate is a strong word, and I'm not prone to it. Disappointed is the right word. As far as the DB5 goes, why I dislike its insertion (increasingly so) has been explained by me and others just above your post. It's a cliche and it's overused. It has become a trope that isn't even used creatively any more. Same goes for Omega watch gadgets which are obviou product placement. They should find another way to get their name out there since they overused this trick in the 90's.

    I dislike that in any film.....in any endeavour.....it shows a lack of creativity,

    In this case, the way it is used is an insult to my intelligence.
    And I find it rather repulsive how you blaim Mendes for being Nolan-esque, when it is actually Campbell you start pointing fingers at.
    Repulsive is it? Sorry to hear that. That is a strong word indeed. I'll try not to repulse you in the future.

    Of the two directors, I blame Mendes for not using the trope appropriately but rather inserting it for a laugh. In both CR & GE the DB5 was used effectively and appropriately, in my view - in exciting scenes that drove the narrative forward. Not in SF & certainly not in SP. It's a matter of finesse - not throwaway.
    Moreover, may I remind you that Bond is a franchise? One could equally reason to get rid of Q, Moneypenny, M, Tanner, because they look too much like a Clone of the "Mission: Impossible" team.
    The way Mendes is using them, absolutely they look like clones of the MI6 team. In fact there are a few 'shot for shot' stills on another thread that look almost the same exactly. I wouldn't be disappointed if this team has a much smaller involvement in B25 actually, now that you mention it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    No torture scene beats the one in AVTAK.

    Yes, that one.

    Do you mean the torture of actually sitting down and watching it, @Thunderfinger?

    Good one, but I meant the bed scene.[/quote]

    I figured as much, but you are no doubt familiar with the insatiable desire to joke for a joke's sake.[/quote]

    The joke was on Roger that day. Well done, Mr Glen.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Do people actually expect Mendes and his team to tell Wishaw, Harris and Fiennes (partly Kinnear as well) to just "sit this one out"? I honestly loved how Bond's team was used in SP, highly improved from SF in my view. Ben's Q went out in the field just like Desmond's always did, so nobody can whine about that, and Harris's Moneypenny didn't fire off a single shot and largely held that support role she carved for herself at the end of SF. Obviously M's role had to be at least slightly pronounced for the subplot of the Nine Eyes. Each character served a purpose without doing anything overblown or out of the ordinary.

    The MI comparison is laughable, as is the continued witch hunt for Mendes' so-called constant Nolan copycat antics.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I'd like to see less of them and more focus on Bond going forward.

    The team effort ending here did smack of MI-RN in London, and the team helping Bond go rogue also did.

    As I've said earlier, up to the health clinic, I thought Q's use and MP's use was appropriate. I'd prefer not to see them assisting in the grand finale going forward however. Just a personal preference, because it reminds me of 24 and MI in particular.

    Sit out is not what I'm asking for. Limited involvement is what I'm advocating. If the cast is too famous for that, then that should have been thought about before recasting them in my view.

    Bond rogue is getting tiresome, and Q being the point man for Bond rogue has also been done before (and many, including myself, have criticized Q's use in LTK as being a distraction well, great though that film was). If they must use them, try a different way......like the SF museum intro.....fresh and interesting.

    My issue is with the way they are used, and their use in the finale more than anything else.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    As far as the DB5 goes, why I dislike its insertion (increasingly so) has been explained by me and others just above your post. It's a cliche and it's overused.

    I agree. I hated it in SF and would rather it had been left dead, but c'est la vie. It seems it's here until DC leaves, but then they really need to knock it on the head. It's an act of slavish adoration to the 60's, when the focus should be on forging new icons. As much as I love SP, the end scene of the DB5 did not resonate with me in the slightest.
  • I wonder if it was last minute. Perhaps they filmed the card came and exploding watch sequence and it tested poorly? Hence why the following sequence Bond is fine because originally he'd never been tortured?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited November 2015 Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    In both CR & GE the DB5 was used effectively and appropriately, in my view - in exciting scenes that drove the narrative forward. Not in SF & certainly not in SP. It's a matter of finesse - not throwaway.

    I wouldn't let Campbell off the hook so lightly personally.

    In GE and CR it serves the exact same function - we're introducing a new Bond so just to hammer it home to you we'll have him drive the DB5. 'Look it's James Bond see. It must be because he's driving the same car as Sean.'

    It just shows a lack of confidence in what you are doing.

    To keep on dredging it up smacks of the sort of thing Tamahori would do.

    In the first 16 films it featured twice.

    In the subsequent 8 it has featured in 6.

    That's overkill which ever way you look at it.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 7,961
    bondjames wrote: »
    In both CR & GE the DB5 was used effectively and appropriately, in my view - in exciting scenes that drove the narrative forward. Not in SF & certainly not in SP. It's a matter of finesse - not throwaway.

    I wouldn't let Campbell off the hook so lightly personally.

    In GE and CR it serves the exact same function - we're introducing a new Bond so just to hammer it home to you we'll have him drive the DB5. 'Look it's James Bond see. It must be because he's driving the same car as Sean.'

    It just shows a lack of confidence in what you are doing.

    To keep on dredging it up smacks of the sort of thing Tamahori would do.

    In the first 16 films it featured twice.

    In the subsequent 8 it has featured in 6.

    That's overkill which ever way you look at it.

    Technically it's five as Apted had the sense to delete the DB5 scene from TWINE.

    So it didn't appear there, in DAD or in QOS.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    In both CR & GE the DB5 was used effectively and appropriately, in my view - in exciting scenes that drove the narrative forward. Not in SF & certainly not in SP. It's a matter of finesse - not throwaway.

    I wouldn't let Campbell off the hook so lightly personally.

    In GE and CR it serves the exact same function - we're introducing a new Bond so just to hammer it home to you we'll have him drive the DB5. 'Look it's James Bond see. It must be because he's driving the same car as Sean.'

    It just shows a lack of confidence in what you are doing.

    To keep on dredging it up smacks of the sort of thing Tamahori would do.

    In the first 16 films it featured twice.

    In the subsequent 8 it has featured in 6.

    That's overkill which ever way you look at it.

    Technically it's five as Apted had the sense to delete the DB5 scene from TWINE.

    So it didn't appear there, in DAD or in QOS.

    Well I am counting TWINE - infra red at the end.
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