Most Under-rated Bond Movies

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  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Correct.
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    This is something I have recently thought about as I've been talking Bond movies, to a certain degree, recently with members of the football (soccer) squad that I help run. Now, none of them are Bond fans as we all are in this community, so it's interesting to get their take on it. I asked the question of best/worst Bond movies etc and each one of them all picked (for the best Bond) one of the more modern ones, i.e. a Daniel Craig movie, whether it be CR, SF or SP. Strangely enough QOS didn't get mentioned but, in all honesty, I don't think they could remember the name.

    When it came to the worst, while they didn't remember all the names, the majority chose OHMSS. Why? They didn't really go in to but I believe that, because Lazenby only did that one movie, it's easy to dismiss it as a good Bond. Not to the community here, but to casual viewers. This is something I have come across before and I generally believe that OHMSS is one of, if not THE, most underrated Bond movie of all.

    Myself? Well I love it and it is always near the top of my rankings.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,778
    The Man with the Golden Gun: it does have some truly silly moments, but Christopher Lee is my favourite villain of the series. Maud Adams does oh so well. The sets are the best not to come from Ken Adam and the cinematography is downright gorgeous. All of that in combination with lesser gadgets and Moore's most Fleming-esque turn as Bond make for one of the most underrated Bond films to date.

    Licence to Kill:
    this is Fleming's Bond. It gets appreciated here and there, some critics dare put it near the bottom however. Sean Bean in Boromir modus would say: "FOOL!" I'd say it's the best Bond film ever. There, I've said it.

    The World Is Not Enough: I know Denise Richards is unbelievable as a bloody scientist, she would be unbelievable as any sort of person with half a brain. That being said, TWINE features a great story with the Broz in top form in his most challenging turn as Bond. Sophie Marceau is right up there with Fiona and Xenia as the franchise's most evil femme fatales, but her character is more fascinating. As a bonus, Zukovsky makes a welcome return too.

    Maybe I could put in You Only Live Twice or Octopussy too. Some people seem to dislike them a lot, while they are fun Cold War Bond films with beautifully shot locations, incredible sets and magnificent soundtracks.

    As far as overrated goes, there are some candidates here but I'll just name one that I find particularly overrated: For Your Eyes Only. This film has the reputation of being serious while it isn't serious in the slightest, unless we confuse seriousness with dullness. Unengaging plot, forgettable villain, irritating Bibi, give us a kiss and stainless steel. It's not all bad, but it's definitely nowhere near the top 10 for me.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Licence to Kill: Fleming's Bond.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Licence to Kill: Fleming's Bond.

    The way Bond is written and the performance from Dalton definitely = Fleming. The film as a whole is a bit more hit and miss in that regard, I feel.
  • Diamonds are Forever: Dark, full of suspense, contrasted with some of the best humorous moments in the series. Connery is pitch perfect, bringing that usual "danger" but also brilliant comedic timing.

    Moonraker: Pure spectacle. Gorgeous. Barry's music is ethereal. Moore is a force to be reckoned with in terms of sheer screen presence. Every penny of the movie is on the screen. They don't make 'em like this anymore.

    Octopussy: Far more Fleming here than some thing. The fact that "Fleming purists" often dislike it perplexes me. Sure, there's the Moore humor, but I think this is Moore's most Fleming performance (along with FYEO and maybe TMWTGG). Great action, great locations, has a great exotic feel and flair.

    A View to a Kill: So weird on almost every level. I love it.

    Die Another Day: Not as bad as you think. Visually interesting. Paced like a bullet. Full of energy.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    RC7 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Licence to Kill: Fleming's Bond.

    The way Bond is written and the performance from Dalton definitely = Fleming. The film as a whole is a bit more hit and miss in that regard, I feel.

    My issues with LTK are the more slack production values. E.g. Bond not as suavely dressed and driving around in crap American hire cars. But that is still like some of the novels. Mixing the humour of say Q with the more gritty tone was a bit odd though.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited January 2016 Posts: 6,778
    I don't consider a Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow a crap American car ;)

    Nevertheless, it's true that the novel Bond would drive American hire cars too and complain about them to himself (which I always loved). You can't do that in a film of course.
  • suavejmf wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Licence to Kill: Fleming's Bond.

    The way Bond is written and the performance from Dalton definitely = Fleming. The film as a whole is a bit more hit and miss in that regard, I feel.

    My issues with LTK are the more slack production values. E.g. Bond not as suavely dressed and driving around in crap American hire cars. But that is still like some of the novels. Mixing the humour of say Q with the more gritty tone was a bit odd though.

    I actually never had a problem with the humor in LTK. I didn't think it detracted from the tone at all (rather, it fits right in, like the humor in CR, which, on a recent viewing is more plentiful than I had remembered).

    My problems with it are that I just don't think it's a great Bond movie. Dalton is excellent, don't get me wrong, and he's what makes it a really good movie. The action is really good too. I just think that it's really Americanized, evocative of, say, Miami Vice and Die Hard, and Kamen's score does nothing to help matters.

    Then there's the issue of it looking like it was made for TV. It lacks that "EON polish" that makes most Bond movies look as expensive as they are. The cinematography is not good.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I don't consider a Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow a crap American car ;)

    Nevertheless, it's true that the novel Bond would drive American hire cars too and complain about them to himself (which I always loved). You can't do that in a film of course.

    Fair play he was chouffered around in Ithmus city. BUT I was referring to the car he has when he drives to Felix's.
  • Posts: 1,098
    DAF seems to get a raw deal these days. I agree some bits of the film are a bit lame, such as the fight on the oil rig, and cutting some of the scenes involving Plenty O'Toole didn't make sense to the story line, but back in the early 1970's the film was very popular indeed.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    It's actually ok. Wint & Kidd are interesting henchman. But Bond being 'infamous' ("you've just killed James Bond") and a camp drag Blofeld let it down. Pre titles and Connery are still great though.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    OHMSS is the most underated Bond film by the masses by far though!
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,961
    I would also say QoS. It has grown on me. To reference another topic , I would like to see a re-edit on this one. Give all footage shot to someone like Stuart Baird and,even with the weaknesses in the script, the results would be a stronger film.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    talos7 wrote: »
    Give all footage shot to someone like Stuart Baird and,even with the weaknesses in the script, the results would be a stronger film.

    Yes, considerably.
  • edited January 2016 Posts: 1,098
    talos7 wrote: »
    I would also say QoS. It has grown on me. To reference another topic , I would like to see a re-edit on this one. Give all footage shot to someone like Stuart Baird and,even with the weaknesses in the script, the results would be a stronger film.

    True, i always thought a re-edit on QOS would benefit the film greatly. Sad that Forster and his editors acted liked deranged baboons in the editing booth!
    Mind you, it was also the studio and producers fault for not allowing any time, to correct the film.

  • Posts: 1,098
    suavejmf wrote: »
    OHMSS is the most underated Bond film by the masses by far though!

    To the masses, they just see the film as the one Lazenby did, and as he only made one Bond film, they assume film was a failure.
    It doesn't help that ITV in the UK, usually shows OHMSS on its own, and not in a Bond season of films.

  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    mepal1 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    OHMSS is the most underated Bond film by the masses by far though!

    To the masses, they just see the film as the one Lazenby did, and as he only made one Bond film, they assume film was a failure.
    It doesn't help that ITV in the UK, usually shows OHMSS on its own, and not in a Bond season of films.

    True, although recently they have been showing a Bond movie each Sunday afternoon for the last few weeks, in chronological order. OHMSS was shown last week with DAF this.

    However, as you say, most people (not those on here) see it as the one that "wotsisname" did. A shame as I think it's a gem of movie.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2016 Posts: 17,687
    Octopussy- forget the Tarzan yell already & love this film.
    The Man With The Golden Gun- Quirky, fun, IMO Hamilton's best of his last three.
    But the biggest under-rated Bond?
    Licence To Kill. But it has a solid fan base here you say? Sure, but IMHO it should be as highly regarded as FRWL!!!! A stripped down tight small Bond with a final Maibaum story & big characterization. Glen outdid himself.
    \m/
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    I actually never had a problem with the humor in LTK. I didn't think it detracted from the tone at all (rather, it fits right in, like the humor in CR, which, on a recent viewing is more plentiful than I had remembered).

    Wow, the humor in CR and LTK is world's apart. Pam randomly grabbing one of Q's gadgets and immediately trying to snap a photo (and for some reason the picture has a skeleton?); Q disguising himself as a street sweeper and throwing his radio into the bushes; the entire character of Paster Joe, etc. It's pretty much lifted straight from the Moore era and felt very tonally inconsistent.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited January 2016 Posts: 1,984
    TWINE's far from the upper echelons of Bond films, but I still feel as if it gets overly downplayed here. It's definitely better than DAD - primarily because of Elektra, the theme song, and the plot, which, while excessively complicated, isn't downright stupid like DAD. DAD might be more a fun film, but even then, in a lot of the remaining areas (score, PTS, effects, action, etc.) it doesn't really stand clearly above TWINE, so I do believe that TWINE is a noticeably better film.

    And I also agree that the LTK humor is just poorly brought in from Roger's films and detracted from the serious atmosphere (the excessive bloodiness in an attempt to become more of a "Fleming" film wasn't successful to begin with). That and the disjointedness of the film are LTK's greatest weaknesses, IMO.
  • edited January 2016 Posts: 11,189
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Licence To Kill. But it has a solid fan base here you say? Sure, but IMHO it should be as highly regarded as FRWL!!!! A stripped down tight small Bond with a final Maibaum story & big characterization. Glen outdid himself.
    \m/

    If I'm being honest I think even Timothy Dalton himself would strongly disagree with you.
  • What kills LTK more than the leftover Rog humor is the completely cheeseball ending where suddenly everyone's happy and joking around. Even Felix who has been horrifically maimed and has had his wife murdered is all smiles in hospital(!). They were giving him some good drugs, I guess.
  • Posts: 11,189
    They did try to wrap things up a bit too quickly there. I feel maybe they could have had a brief shot of Felix looking at a picture of Della by his bedside after he puts the phone down. Just something that acknowledges his loss. Della was afterall meant to be the catalyst for the whole film.
  • Posts: 3,336
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    They did try to wrap things up a bit too quickly there. I feel maybe they could have had a brief shot of Felix looking at a picture of Della by his bedside after he puts the phone down. Just something that acknowledges his loss. Della was afterall meant to be the catalyst for the whole film.

    This would been very good
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    dinovelvet wrote: »
    What kills LTK more than the leftover Rog humor is the completely cheeseball ending where suddenly everyone's happy and joking around. Even Felix who has been horrifically maimed and has had his wife murdered is all smiles in hospital(!). They were giving him some good drugs, I guess.

    Even the corrupt president for life gets a happy ending with the woman who was so recently telling us in an Oscar-worthy moment "I love James SO much". If anything he should have been killed along with Sanchez.

    One of the things I just realized I appreciate a lot about the Craig films is that they've hired women who can actually act. None of the Bond girls in this era have been completely embarrassing like we got every few films for quite awhile.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Sark wrote: »
    dinovelvet wrote: »
    What kills LTK more than the leftover Rog humor is the completely cheeseball ending where suddenly everyone's happy and joking around. Even Felix who has been horrifically maimed and has had his wife murdered is all smiles in hospital(!). They were giving him some good drugs, I guess.

    Even the corrupt president for life gets a happy ending with the woman who was so recently telling us in an Oscar-worthy moment "I love James SO much". If anything he should have been killed along with Sanchez.

    One of the things I just realized I appreciate a lot about the Craig films is that they've hired women who can actually act. None of the Bond girls in this era have been completely embarrassing like we got every few films for quite awhile.
    I have grown to appreciate LTK very much, to the point where I now rank it a top 10 Bond film for various reasons. However, I completely agree with these statements. The Felix ending was just bad, as was the horrendous swimming pool finale, & ditzy Lupe's fickle change in affections.

    I also agree that the DC era has benefited from far superior actresses. Some have not lived up to their potential in my view, but at least we haven't had the humiliations of the past.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    They did try to wrap things up a bit too quickly there. I feel maybe they could have had a brief shot of Felix looking at a picture of Della by his bedside after he puts the phone down. Just something that acknowledges his loss. Della was afterall meant to be the catalyst for the whole film.

    This would been very good
    Yes, something like that would have tied it up well...
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    I'm also thinking that AVTAK deserves a mention just because the only thing most people say to dismiss it is that Roger Moore was in his late fifties by then. Sure, it is uncomfortable, but it's hardly the only (or the biggest) problem with the film, and AVTAK does have several redeeming qualities (Christopher Walken, the score and theme song, the stuntwork, etc).
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,727
    Underrated by whom?

    Most underrated by the general audience: I'd say DN
    Most underrated by the media/critics: OHMSS
    Most underrated by fans: FYEO

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