Most Under-rated Bond Movies

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Besides the torture of TEOL, the music wasn t the problem with GE.
  • Sark wrote: »
    Even 'the experience of love'?

    No, terrible song.

  • I think I'd certainly prefer Serra to have another crack over Newman. Although both of Newman's scores are better than Kamen's.

    Agree with all of this.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Serra was good, Newman is a lot better.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I've never felt Serra's score was the travesty a lot of fans seem to think. BUT it is very hit-and-miss.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
    Based on my last 2 rewatch, I'm starting to really enjoy DAD. Some of it is OTT to the extreme, but the film goes by like a bullet so there's no time to pull the film apart while watching as the next scene starts before I have time to realise what just happened. I should also mention that Brosnan is on top form and Arnold's soundtrack is just fantastic.
  • edited February 2016 Posts: 1,497
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Point here is that DN rocks regardless of the questionable Norman score.

    I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think the score detracts from Dr. No at all. Rather I find it mostly non-existent with the exception of the Bond theme, and the featured songs in the film. 3 Blind Mice is a classic cinematic moment with the 3 assassins disguised as beggars, as is "Underneath the Mango Tree." Points also to the calypso live music from Byron Lee and the Dragoneers. All of these moments fit the island/travelogue feel of the movie. Therefore I don't think the film suffers at all for not featuring a bombastic John Barry score. If anything the lack of music suits the low key, serial feel of the film.

    So I'll throw my hat in the DN pile for most underrated. It's the perfect, brisk-paced spy-thriller, ripe with suspense, an exotic locale, strange and bizarre circumstances, fantasy women, the utmost cool in Sir Sean, and a twisted villain. Easily in the top 5 for me, maybe even top 3.

  • Yeah I don't mind the score. It's not great, but hardly terrible.
  • Posts: 2,341
    AVTAK
    This film receives so much hate. It was Roger's final film and it has great villains (Zorin, and May Day). It may be campy at times (the car chases thru Paris and San Francisco) and Roger may be really looking "long in the tooth" but I always enjoyed this film.

    It was ranked 2nd from the bottom in the Mi6 survey back in 2012 (only Moonraker was rated lower) but I don't think the film deserves all the crap that gets dumped on it by Bond fans. There are much worst films out there (the aforementioned MR, DAD, and DAF).

    Walken dominates every scene he is in and May Day may be cartoonish at times but no more so than Jaws in TSWLM (where he is appreciated).

    I would rank it among the Moore films as 3rd or 4th out of seven (OP, FYEO, AVTAK/LALD) .
    I always enjoy watching this film over and over.
  • Posts: 7,500
    JBFan626 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Point here is that DN rocks regardless of the questionable Norman score.

    I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think the score detracts from Dr. No at all. Rather I find it mostly non-existent with the exception of the Bond theme, and the featured songs in the film. 3 Blind Mice is a classic cinematic moment with the 3 assassins disguised as beggars, as is "Underneath the Mango Tree." Points also to the calypso live music from Byron Lee and the Dragoneers. All of these moments fit the island/travelogue feel of the movie. Therefore I don't think the film suffers at all for not featuring a bombastic John Barry score. If anything the lack of music suits the low key, serial feel of the film.

    So I'll throw my hat in the DN pile for most underrated. It's the perfect, brisk-paced spy-thriller, ripe with suspense, an exotic locale, strange and bizarre circumstances, fantasy women, the utmost cool in Sir Sean, and a twisted villain. Easily in the top 5 for me, maybe even top 3.

    Couldn't agree more! I'll throw in that Norman's dated score, the few times its prominent in the film, actually adds a suitably sense of nostalgia. Dr No screams old 60s style, that is part of its charm and the score actually helps in that regard. It makes Dr No stand out.

    And as you mention the Jamaican songs and tunes are actually far more prominent in the film than the actual "score" by Norman.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,781
    OHMSS69 wrote: »
    AVTAK
    This film receives so much hate. It was Roger's final film and it has great villains (Zorin, and May Day). It may be campy at times (the car chases thru Paris and San Francisco) and Roger may be really looking "long in the tooth" but I always enjoyed this film.

    It was ranked 2nd from the bottom in the Mi6 survey back in 2012 (only Moonraker was rated lower) but I don't think the film deserves all the crap that gets dumped on it by Bond fans. There are much worst films out there (the aforementioned MR, DAD, and DAF).

    Walken dominates every scene he is in and May Day may be cartoonish at times but no more so than Jaws in TSWLM (where he is appreciated).

    I agree with you. My favourites from Rog are TSWLM and TMWTGG, for third place I can't make my mind up between OP and AVTAK.

    At least it's not as cartoonish as MR or as forgettable as FYEO.
  • Posts: 4,325
    JBFan626 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Point here is that DN rocks regardless of the questionable Norman score.

    I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think the score detracts from Dr. No at all. Rather I find it mostly non-existent with the exception of the Bond theme, and the featured songs in the film. 3 Blind Mice is a classic cinematic moment with the 3 assassins disguised as beggars, as is "Underneath the Mango Tree." Points also to the calypso live music from Byron Lee and the Dragoneers. All of these moments fit the island/travelogue feel of the movie. Therefore I don't think the film suffers at all for not featuring a bombastic John Barry score. If anything the lack of music suits the low key, serial feel of the film.

    So I'll throw my hat in the DN pile for most underrated. It's the perfect, brisk-paced spy-thriller, ripe with suspense, an exotic locale, strange and bizarre circumstances, fantasy women, the utmost cool in Sir Sean, and a twisted villain. Easily in the top 5 for me, maybe even top 3.

    I rank Dr. No 4th it's brilliant, although the score does feel very dated.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited February 2016 Posts: 6,781
    If the music score had been better I'd rank Dr. No in my top 10, maybe even top 5. But it's the series' worst score I'd say and therefore I rank it somewhere around 12. Which is still among the better half of the series.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    If the music score had been better I'd rank Dr. No in my top 10, maybe even top 5. But it's the series' worst score I'd say and therefore I rank it somewhere around 12. Which is still among the better half of the series.

    Yep you heard it here first folks - the film that introduced THE JAMES BOND THEME FFS (only the best piece of music ever written for a film) is the worst score of the series. Dear oh dear.

    Jesus. Sometimes I think this forum is some sort of Truman Show scenario and I'm being filmed while you people just post more and more ridiculous things to prod and goad me like a dancing bear until I snap for the viewing public's amusement.

    Yes the final music when Doctor No's base is blowing up is an awful track but even Jump Up Jamaica would be enough to elevate it above LTK and SP.

    But, and I think it's worth repeating, it's the goddam score that gave us the f**king James Bond Theme.


  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I think the music in DN goes very well with the film actually. I like the fact that it's not Barry, because it creates a clearer differentiation between this film and FRWL. They are both exceptional films mind you, but distinctly different on account of the score, among other things.
  • I really like the feel of songs like "jump up" and the like. Fits the atmosphere and vibe.
  • Posts: 7,500
    Jump up was in fact written by Norman if I don't remember incorrectly. And it became an instant hit in Jamaica, not unsurprisingly.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,781
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    If the music score had been better I'd rank Dr. No in my top 10, maybe even top 5. But it's the series' worst score I'd say and therefore I rank it somewhere around 12. Which is still among the better half of the series.

    Yep you heard it here first folks - the film that introduced THE JAMES BOND THEME FFS (only the best piece of music ever written for a film) is the worst score of the series. Dear oh dear.

    Jesus. Sometimes I think this forum is some sort of Truman Show scenario and I'm being filmed while you people just post more and more ridiculous things to prod and goad me like a dancing bear until I snap for the viewing public's amusement.

    Yes the final music when Doctor No's base is blowing up is an awful track but even Jump Up Jamaica would be enough to elevate it above LTK and SP.

    But, and I think it's worth repeating, it's the goddam score that gave us the f**king James Bond Theme.


    All right, Spectre is also a contender for the worst score. Nevertheless, Dr. No's score has only one great track and that's the James Bond Theme. Should it be considered as a good score for just one track? I would love to pass on a test where I came up with only one good answer.

    Monty Norman is a poor composer, the Bond Theme is Barry's and I'm glad they went on with the latter, because 007 would not have been so legendary with Norman scoring FRWL and GF.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited February 2016 Posts: 9,117
    GoldenGun wrote: »

    All right, Spectre is also a contender for the worst score. Nevertheless, Dr. No's score has only one great track and that's the James Bond Theme. Should it be considered as a good score for just one track? I would love to pass on a test where I came up with only one good answer.

    Name a good track on, say, the LTK soundtrack that doesn't nick the Bond theme.
    GoldenGun wrote: »

    Monty Norman is a poor composer, the Bond Theme is Barry's

    Given all the bullshit from the Mods about posting pictures and links I wonder if you can expect a bollocking from them for that statement which is as clear a case of libel as you're ever likely to see.

    Or is it only EON's lawyers they are petrified of?
  • Posts: 11,189
    I'll stick up for the Kamen score. A track I'm quite fond of that DOESNT use the Bond theme is the music used during the romantic moment on the boat between Pam and Bond and again at the end.

    A gentle, vaguely nostalgic piece of music.
  • Posts: 4,325
    I really like the feel of songs like "jump up" and the like. Fits the atmosphere and vibe.

    I also like how they used it in Licence to Kill.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,781
    GoldenGun wrote: »

    All right, Spectre is also a contender for the worst score. Nevertheless, Dr. No's score has only one great track and that's the James Bond Theme. Should it be considered as a good score for just one track? I would love to pass on a test where I came up with only one good answer.

    Name a good track on, say, the LTK soundtrack that doesn't nick the Bond theme.

    Off the top of my head, I like both the title and the end title songs and I like quite like the romantic cues too.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »

    All right, Spectre is also a contender for the worst score. Nevertheless, Dr. No's score has only one great track and that's the James Bond Theme. Should it be considered as a good score for just one track? I would love to pass on a test where I came up with only one good answer.

    Name a good track on, say, the LTK soundtrack that doesn't nick the Bond theme.

    Off the top of my head, I like both the title and the end title songs and I like quite like the romantic cues too.

    Neither of the two songs are written by Kamen but carry on.

    Yeah the romantic track in the boat is OK I guess.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,781
    I know they aren't written by Kamen, they are part of the score aren't they?

    As for the rest of the non Bond Theme action music, I think Kamen gives it enough panache by using a complete orchestra. The more subtle cues are quite fitting for the Latin American motif as well.

    Sure it's no Barry score, but I think Kamen gets the job done.

    Dr. No seems to have a score made up out of cartoon noises, like when Bond crushes the spider. As if we are watching some kind of morning animation series.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I know they aren't written by Kamen, they are part of the score aren't they?

    What exactly are we discussing here? When I talk about the score I am talking about original music for the film written by the composer - Barry, Newman, Arnold whoever.

    The soundtrack for me is comprised of said score plus stuff used like songs and pieces of music from elsewhere - The Clash in DAD, Vivaldi in SP.

    Now of course a grey area is where we have an original song written for the film but that has nothing to do with the film's composer.

    Now with Barry he wrote or co-wrote the title song so and made it an intrinsic part of the score so I am happy to include it when discussing his work.

    But with Kamen, Arnold with TND, DAD and QOS and Newman they had zero input into the title songs.

    Are we discussing a musical collaboration or a single composer's music for the film?

    Because if you include Adele when discussing SF it elevates that score another notch that Newman should not get credit for.

    Back to Kamen, for all those who moan about Arnold overusing the Bond theme in the Brisnan era, this guy must use it more in the course of one film than Barry and Arnold combined. It goes beyond repetitive to Chinese water torture.

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,781
    I never moaned about Arnold using the Bond Theme too much. Anyway, I find the music in LTK very fitting for its Latin American theme.

    I suppose DN's score is also fitting for its Caribbean theme, but there are moments in which there really isn't much music at all.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    In my humble estimation, Kamen's score is far better than some of the tripe we've heard since then, and I'm not referring necessarily to Newman. It was a bit different at the time, but it's a solid score that goes with the film nicely imho.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    bondjames wrote: »
    In my humble estimation, Kamen's score is far better than some of the tripe we've heard since then, and I'm not referring necessarily to Newman. It was a bit different at the time, but it's a solid score that goes with the film nicely imho.
    YES.
    =D>
  • Yea, I absolutely love Kamin's score
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Kamen's fine. LTK's score is much better than GE's, at least.
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