Realistic & Serious Story Ideas for Bond 25 (...to be used by EON Productions Ltd.??)

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  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 9,899
    Darius wrote: »
    @Gustav_Graves

    My view is that if space is to be a viable venue for a Bond adventure, then it's got to be way ahead in the future -- and we're looking at least a century here -- when space flight will be possibly more routine than it is now. As the moment, it costs about 20 million US dollars to put one man into space, and that's without additional payload. Each space shuttle mission costs about half a billion US dollars and each Soyuz flight to the ISS costs at least that, depending on the purpose of the mission. Not only this, but there's years of selection and training involved -- it's not just a question of Bond hopping into a shuttle and immediately knowing how to pilot it (because they teach you that in British schools -- really they do. Dream on!) and having undergone no vetting or training for the mission.

    Maybe in a century or so, things will be different, but not now please. At the moment, it will just stretch credibility too far, just like MR did for many, including myself.

    It's completely practical to have Bond return to space in realistic fashion. There are many ways this could come to fruition. The question is whether it's a good idea or not, not whether it can happen.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 3,823
    A female Double O agent as a partner who is every bit as effective as Bond with potential for a spin off series of her own with the same support team (M, Q etc) still in place
    (If Bond's are going to take 3 or 4 years to make why not have an alternative agent? could go for a slightly different audience, younger, more street cred, with chance to try new directors? not just a female Bond) just an idea
  • DariusDarius UK
    edited October 2015 Posts: 354
    RC7 wrote: »
    It's completely practical to have Bond return to space in realistic fashion. There are many ways this could come to fruition. The question is whether it's a good idea or not, not whether it can happen.

    Interesting. What sort of ideas did you have in mind?

  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Sark wrote: »
    Mynameismybondrn I hope you're drinking heavily at the moment.

    Gustav, I'm confused by how you put "realistic and serious" in the title then said "Bond goes into space" in your post? What possible realistic and serious plot device would require Bond going into space?

    Didn't I mention that in my idead for "Bond Goes Into Space"?

    With 'realistic' I mean the actual popularity of space-based 'realistic, scientifically sound' sci-fi films like "Gravity", "Interstellar" and "The Martian".

    I don't know if you know it, but....within 15 years the first humans will land on Mars. That's not bloody fake or cheesy. It's realism. It's the same kind of realism that we experience now with the International Space Station. It's not a cheesy idea only Drax could think of. This space station does EXIST right now.

    If treated properly, if you re-imagine space in such a more realistic way, then I would most certainly welcome it as a part/location for a future Bond film.

    I'm not questioning whether humans can go into space or to mars (although mars is still a ways off). I'm questioning how we get Bond there that doesn't descend into parody. There's not a lot of espionage or assassinations in space. Archer already did a story arc about a rouge group taking over the space station with plans of colonizing Mars. And that's a parody of Bond. I think nearly any "Bond in space" story will run a high risk of copying its own parodies.
  • joshdeese93joshdeese93 Grand Hotel Europe Sauna
    Posts: 352
    patb wrote: »
    A female Double O agent as a partner who is every bit as effective as Bond with potential for a spin off series of her own with the same support team (M, Q etc) still in place
    (If Bond's are going to take 3 or 4 years to make why not have an alternative agent? could go for a slightly different audience, younger, more street cred, with chance to try new directors? not just a female Bond) just an idea

    No... please, just, no...
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 507
    I'm ready to see Bond take itself less seriously. Moonraker 2. In space. Drax (or son) returns with the astronaut who got lost in YOLT.

    No seriously (and less seriously), I would love to see a sequel of a pre-Brosnan film involving the same characters. It would be a treat for the long-time fans of the series and a learning opportunity for new fans. Moonraker would look awesome now. Having Jaws come around again would be pretty cool too. I don't want a mysterious villain reveal late in the movie either. Bond…early…in some rich guys lair (hopefully, Drax) and the whole movie circling on revenge. Throw in Stromberg Jr. later for dramatic effect.

    If as @Darius suggests, it's too incredible, then do a "remake" years ahead in the future. Just want to see an old plot recycled once. Craig & Co. have built up enough credibility for the franchise. Let's get one movie (lower-budget obviously) to take a step back and then drive ahead in another direction.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    patb wrote: »
    A female Double O agent as a partner who is every bit as effective as Bond with potential for a spin off series of her own with the same support team (M, Q etc) still in place
    (If Bond's are going to take 3 or 4 years to make why not have an alternative agent? could go for a slightly different audience, younger, more street cred, with chance to try new directors? not just a female Bond) just an idea
    Yes, please. I don't see why the Bond universe could be faulty if expanded into spin-offs. I've been made a laughing stock when I suggested it months ago, but I still stand by what I said. I'm all for it.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 507
    patb wrote: »
    A female Double O agent as a partner who is every bit as effective as Bond with potential for a spin off series of her own with the same support team (M, Q etc) still in place
    (If Bond's are going to take 3 or 4 years to make why not have an alternative agent? could go for a slightly different audience, younger, more street cred, with chance to try new directors? not just a female Bond) just an idea
    Yes, please. I don't see why the Bond universe could be faulty if expanded into spin-offs. I've been made a laughing stock when I suggested it months ago, but I still stand by what I said. I'm all for it.

    Sounds like a great opportunity to expand the Bond franchise. "Marvel-ize" it if you will. I though the idea came around with Jinx after DAD, but maybe it can be revisited. As far as Bond 25 itself, I'm not sure what the female Double 0 would add than we haven't already seen.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    patb wrote: »
    A female Double O agent as a partner who is every bit as effective as Bond with potential for a spin off series of her own with the same support team (M, Q etc) still in place
    (If Bond's are going to take 3 or 4 years to make why not have an alternative agent? could go for a slightly different audience, younger, more street cred, with chance to try new directors? not just a female Bond) just an idea
    Yes, please. I don't see why the Bond universe could be faulty if expanded into spin-offs. I've been made a laughing stock when I suggested it months ago, but I still stand by what I said. I'm all for it.

    Sounds like a great opportunity to expand the Bond franchise. "Marvel-ize" it if you will. I though the idea came around with Jinx after DAD, but maybe it can be revisited. As far as Bond 25 itself, I'm not sure what the female Double 0 would add than we haven't already seen.
    Well said. Even though, I never am for a Jinx movie, at the slightest, I would never mind to see a lady spy whose equation is every bit as being a female version of Bond becoming an official branch of the 007 franchise, namely another 00-agent. There have been a few female 00s in many works whether novels or comic strips in the past every now and then, and I'd love to see the whole idea getting established with the right materials thrown in. We'll also have Bond making a cameo in the first entry so that would be a reminder that it belongs to the 007 universe.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Sark wrote: »
    Sark wrote: »
    Mynameismybondrn I hope you're drinking heavily at the moment.

    Gustav, I'm confused by how you put "realistic and serious" in the title then said "Bond goes into space" in your post? What possible realistic and serious plot device would require Bond going into space?

    Didn't I mention that in my idead for "Bond Goes Into Space"?

    With 'realistic' I mean the actual popularity of space-based 'realistic, scientifically sound' sci-fi films like "Gravity", "Interstellar" and "The Martian".

    I don't know if you know it, but....within 15 years the first humans will land on Mars. That's not bloody fake or cheesy. It's realism. It's the same kind of realism that we experience now with the International Space Station. It's not a cheesy idea only Drax could think of. This space station does EXIST right now.

    If treated properly, if you re-imagine space in such a more realistic way, then I would most certainly welcome it as a part/location for a future Bond film.

    I'm not questioning whether humans can go into space or to mars (although mars is still a ways off). I'm questioning how we get Bond there that doesn't descend into parody. There's not a lot of espionage or assassinations in space. Archer already did a story arc about a rouge group taking over the space station with plans of colonizing Mars. And that's a parody of Bond. I think nearly any "Bond in space" story will run a high risk of copying its own parodies.

    The big question therefore should be: How do we get Bond into space without making it look like a cheesy parody, but more of a believable, credible and realistic driving force of the story?

    That should be, in my opinion, the starting point of an entire screenplay based on this. And perhaps the International Space Station could be a setting for the film. No Ken Adam-esque, lush escapist set, but the gritty, dark confinements of the real ISS. And perhaps, it could be merely a setpiece for the mid part of the movie, thus not being a 'grand finale'.

    Also, we're talking about....James Bond no? May I remind you the villain's scheme of "OHMSS"? Usings women to execute biological warfare?? Very Fleming-esque off course, but wasn't that a bit of a parody as well?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 9,899
    Darius wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    It's completely practical to have Bond return to space in realistic fashion. There are many ways this could come to fruition. The question is whether it's a good idea or not, not whether it can happen.

    Interesting. What sort of ideas did you have in mind?

    Space travel has and will continue to become the reserve of Billionaires. In the heightened reality of the Bond-verse I don't personally find it a stretch to conflate the idea of 'uber-villain' and 'conflict in space'. Not army vs. army, but something smaller scale. I don't think it suits the trajectory that we are currently on, but it could be done in a plausible way in the near future.
  • DariusDarius UK
    edited October 2015 Posts: 354
    The big question therefore should be: How do we get Bond into space without making it look like a cheesy parody, but more of a believable, credible and realistic driving force of the story?

    This is really the sixty four dollar question, isn't it?

    At present, the ISS is a small scientific research facility that only accepts people there that have been scheduled to go years in advance. Such people have undergone complex international vetting and training during those years and are all experts in their own fields. It's not the sort of place you can just zip up to on a casual basis because you think a double agent may be operating there. Besides, the ISS is international territory, which means MI6 do not have jurisdiction there.

    The ISS has a mere 388 cubic metres of habitable space, most of which is taken up by scientific equipment -- not really the best venue for a car chase or a fist fight.

    So what plot suggestions do you have?
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    The plot of OHMSS wasn't self-parody in 1969. The problems of Bond going to the ISS are well pointed out by @darius. Until Gustav can give us a credible reason for Bond going there I'm saying it's self-parody. Space pirates is all I'm thinking of at the moment. In the films Gustav has mentioned the heroes aren't battling villains-at least not ones of this world. Aliens or natural forces are the obstacles to be overcome. And I think everyone can agree that those things aren't Bond's forte.
  • Posts: 3,823
    Jinx was a joke, we know there are other double O agents and there is no reason why some are not female, the supporting cast, sets etc would make it relatively easy for her to appear in a Bond as a very strong supporting character and then spin off. She would work in the same environment but be very different to Bond in terms of her own background, skills etc) You could still have some of the Bondian production values but be freed of all the personal history stuff and have a clean sheet in terms of her background, character etc.
  • bond_azoozbondbond_azoozbond Portland,OR
    edited October 2015 Posts: 97
    I think we dont need a space plot any time soon .. Bond plots after TLD had gone from the normality as we used to from Dr.No .. Now with Craig and the return of SPECTRE , I hope the next movie if not Bond 25 .. Lets say Bond 26 we have SPECTRE trying to involve in a political issue .. I mean you cant have SPECTRE as the organization without big plans as we used to know them from the 60's .. Right ??
  • JNOJNO Finland
    Posts: 135
    No more space journeys for me, thank you. Bond and space are a bad match IMO. And no more "huge laser weapons in space"-adventures also. I don´t like the idea of using F1 either. I hate motorsports. Car chases are more than okay but please, no F1.

    I believe that EON has now chosen its path. They have brought Bond to a modern times and the Craig-era films (well, don´t know about Spectre, haven´t seen it yet!) have reflected the current times quite well.

    Now that Spectre is back in business, the future plots will very likely have something to do with Spectre and the current political climate.

    There´s always room for reality and down to earth attitude with some Bondian touches but not for space, laser weapons and Lee Tamahori.
  • Posts: 11,119
    And the other story/plot idea I mentioned?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Personally, I'd love to see F1 getting a place in the Bond series. Not every entry in the series should be boringly down to earth and miserable. An entertainment piece has to have some fantasy and escapism into its stronghold to keep going. Otherwise, what's the point?
  • Posts: 11,119
    Personally, I'd love to see F1 getting a place in the Bond series. Not every entry in the series should be boringly down to earth and miserable. An entertainment piece has to have some fantasy and escapism into its stronghold to keep going. Otherwise, what's the point?

    I fully agree! On top of that, I'd like to think that most Bond films have a certain 'theme locale', certain setpieces -both action and locations- the movie became famous for in the first place. Some examples:

    --> "From Russia With Love": TheHitchcock-ian "Cold War Espionage Thriller"
    --> "Thunderball": The "Exotic Underwater" Bond-film
    --> "On Her Majesty's Secret Service": The "Winter/Christmas" Bond-film
    --> "Live And Let Die": The "Voodoo/Blaixploitation" Bond entry
    --> "Moonraker": The "Outer Space" Adventure
    --> "Licence To Kill": The true "American" Bond film
    --> "Casino Royale": The one and only "Casino" Drama/Thrilller

    So I think Bond 25 could very well be the "Formula One Car Racing" adventure :-). It would be an entirely fresh and original film within the franchise. Especially when it concerns the locale. On top of that....let's add a tense tennis match between Bond and the villain (Just read "Devil May Care"). That hasn't been done before either. And that's weird, because Wimbledon could be such a Bond-esque setting.
  • DariusDarius UK
    edited October 2015 Posts: 354
    @Gustav_Graves

    I think Formula One could be an interesting venue for an action set-piece (it's certainly one that hasn't been used before), but I think that the esoteric and confined nature of F1 makes it an unlikely vehicle for an entire movie. I say this because in the past, organised sporting events, such as football, rugby, cricket, Formula One, tennis, and so on have been ignored by scriptwriters, simply because their use will always seem somewhat contrived, unless the movie is exclusively about said sport. The Bond movies have never been, and hopefully never will be, exclusively about sport.

    I read Devil May Care a while back (and wish I hadn't) and I found that the tennis match described here between Bond and Gorner was well-written and described, but it was one of a series of "cookie-cutter" plot elements used by Faulks. In other words, it parodied (and in many ways satirised) Fleming's confrontation with Goldfinger on the golf course and Bond's confrontation with Drax over the Bridge table. Faulks is really showing up Fleming's over-use of the "Bond challenges villain to a game in which the villain cheats, and Bond manages to outwit said villain by being a better cheat." plot device. If we do the same thing in the movies, it becomes just as much of a predictable cliché and will come over as either satire or parody. In CR, the use of a casino game becomes tense and exciting because poker is mostly a game of chance. Tennis leaves little to chance (being a game of pure skill) and if we place it in a Bond context, the notion of Bond happening to be a Wimbledon-class tennis player as well as being an active agent for HM Government stretches credibility too far.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Darius wrote: »
    @Gustav_Graves

    I think Formula One could be an interesting venue for an action set-piece (it's certainly one that hasn't been used before), but I think that the esoteric and confined nature of F1 makes it an unlikely vehicle for an entire movie. I say this because in the past, organised sporting events, such as football, rugby, cricket, Formula One, tennis, and so on have been ignored by scriptwriters, simply because their use will always seem somewhat contrived, unless the movie is exclusively about said sport. The Bond movies have never been, and hopefully never will be, exclusively about sport.

    I read Devil May Care a while back (and wish I hadn't) and I found that the tennis match described here between Bond and Gorner was well-written and described, but it was one of a series of "cookie-cutter" plot elements used by Faulks. In other words, it parodied (and in many ways satirised) Fleming's confrontation with Goldfinger on the golf course and Bond's confrontation with Drax over the Bridge table. Faulks is really showing up Fleming's over-use of the "Bond challenges villain to a game in which the villain cheats, and Bond manages to outwit said villain by being a better cheat." plot device. If we do the same thing in the movies, it becomes just as much of a predictable cliché and will come over as either satire or parody. In CR, the use of a casino game becomes tense and exciting because poker is mostly a game of chance. Tennis leaves little to chance (being a game of pure skill) and if we place it in a Bond context, the notion of Bond happening to be a Wimbledon-class tennis player as well as being an active agent for HM Government stretches credibility too far.

    Thanks for your comments. So, what would you do then :-)? Lots of people know what to say when they think an idea doesn't work. But what idea does work then according to you. And how would you...handle a few of my ideas instead in a Bond film to make it actually work?

    By the way, go see "Rush". That movie will inspire you ;-).
  • Posts: 1,475
    I have no problem with the ISS angle - the earth's orbit is the next big tourist destination and it has always been a military/political battleground between East/West. Plenty of potential for a (realistic, indeed) plot there. But Bond need not actually GO there for it to be the main story device.

    Any fantastical elements should have grounding in science-fact. The hadron collider being used for some sinister means, or SPECTRE covertly taking over the European space program for extortion, etc.

    But no on the Formula 1 thing, please. It is too gimmicky. Like Bond getting mixed up in football or FIFA, for heaven’s sake… let’s keep the plots political, military or terrorist based.

    It’s not so much a question of being ‘original’ (we’ve seen that a Bond film doesn’t need to be original to be good), it’s more a question of how to put a fresh spin on the old Bond tropes.

  • Posts: 1,475
    On the same note though - isn't the only way forward now to strip the beast down to it's bare parts and 'do a FYEO'..? Hell we can even have the visiting of the grave (take your pick...) woven in as a nod to Roger.

    A tight, 2 hour mission grounded in real spycraft territory. Russia's re-emergence as a threat to the West seems to be begging for this kind of back to basics cold war Bond.
  • Posts: 3,823
    Lets not kid ourselves, the enemy that cinema goers are thinking about is Isis and connected groups. BUT it's far too sensitive a topic to deal with unless you want muslim protesters at every showing, questions in Parliament etc etc, so either Bond ignores it as if its not there or use a connection so everyone will know what is being referred to. So, for example, an arms dealer who was supplying top of the range, high tech stuff to "international terrorists": it would be an open secret which terrorists are most active and a threat to GB and their allies but they would not be mentioned explicitly.
  • DariusDarius UK
    Posts: 354
    @Gustav_Graves

    Yes, I have seen Rush and it is a good movie, but it is a biopic and not an original work of fiction. As such, it is more about the characters of James Hunt and his rival Nikki Lauder, rather than the genre of F1 itself -- that is really just a backdrop. As such, the movie is a character-driven dramatization of a larger-than-life relationship that existed back in the seventies and was not only fuelled by Texaco, but also by the press.

    You ask me to say what I would do with your ideas for Bond in space, F1, and tennis. The simple answer is that I wouldn't do anything because I don't think they're workable, and I have given detailed reasons for this belief. It's up to you to develop your own ideas, not to expect others to do it for you. I do recall asking you to expand upon your plot ideas for a Bond in space several posts ago, but you haven't replied.

    So?

  • Posts: 3,823
    Americans don't seem to be able to connect with F-1 , despite lots of investment and lots of different locations, they just dont get it, plus F1 is on the decline and could be a joke in 5 years time. To please the USA market, Bond would be in a "Days of Thunder" Nascar fest and that's just not acceptable IMHO
  • DariusDarius UK
    Posts: 354
    patb wrote: »
    Americans don't seem to be able to connect with F-1 , despite lots of investment and lots of different locations, they just dont get it, plus F1 is on the decline and could be a joke in 5 years time. To please the USA market, Bond would be in a "Days of Thunder" Nascar fest and that's just not acceptable IMHO

    ...and the USA is a huge market for Bond! Excellent point.

  • Tilda Swinton as Irma Bunt or a high ranking SPECTRE agent in Bond 25. Continuing SPECTRE in ESB's Absence.
    A Female as a lead Villain would be good to see. Bunt is the brains and HINX could be back doing her dirty work.
    She just looks like the perfect psychotic villain causing terror across the globe!

    Death to Spies (2018)
    Following the events of 'Spectre'?
    (Blofeld tasks Irma Bunt with taking out a list of secret service agents.) After a failed attempt on 007's life, results in the death of Madeleine. James Bond and mi6 are on the hunt for who is behind these killings.

    Cast:
    James Bond: Daniel Craig
    Irma Bunt: Tilda Swinton
    Anna Arquette: Charlotte Le Bon
    Hinx: Dave Bautista
    Blofeld: Christoph Waltz
    004: Idris Elba
    Madeleine Swann: Lea Seydoux
    Felix Leiter: Jeffrey Wright
    Minister of Defence: Charles Dance
    Q,M,Moneypenny, Tanner: Same as Spectre

    (Scenes with Blofeld in prison like Hannibal Lector!)
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited October 2015 Posts: 1,984
    I haven't seen SPECTRE so I don't know how it ends, but I'd say Bond 25 is likely to be more on the organization, probably including the introduction of Blofeld in the new canon with a new actor (or another unseen one).
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    As Spoiler tag should be added to this topic in case people post opinions on where to take the next film after Spectre and reveal Spectre events and ruin it for those who have not seen it yet.
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