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Will Spectre end up being to SF what Thunderball was to GF..?

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  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    My first impression of SP was very high (I felt like it was enough in that moment to crack my top five), but upon repeated viewing I have been met with diminished enthusiasm. The last few times I watched it, I didn’t watch it all in one viewing, which is a mark shared among the bottom half of the films in my experience. It has its moments, particularly in the first half. The final third of the film is an abomination that does a significant disservice to the more compelling elements that preceded it.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    Thunderball is my #2 right after Goldfinger ... and SP is my #24. So to me, SP definitely did not become the TB of the Craig era. It could easily have been a good movie but it was ruined by a an embarassing script ... many good scenes in the movie but never works. I can not sit through more than the first 2/3 of it anymore.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,402
    Mansfield wrote: »
    My first impression of SP was very high (I felt like it was enough in that moment to crack my top five), but upon repeated viewing I have been met with diminished enthusiasm. The last few times I watched it, I didn’t watch it all in one viewing, which is a mark shared among the bottom half of the films in my experience. It has its moments, particularly in the first half. The final third of the film is an abomination that does a significant disservice to the more compelling elements that preceded it.

    Exactly how I'm feeling
  • RevelatorRevelator
    Posts: 2,895
    In terms of box office Spectre certainly did NOT end up being to SkyFall what Thunderball was to Goldfinger. Thunderball was the highest-grossing Bond film of all time until Skyfall came along. Spectre did not break either film's record and it slightly underperformed in the US.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,533
    If anything, SF was the TB of the Craig era. We never got his GF.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,402
    Revelator wrote: »
    In terms of box office Spectre certainly did NOT end up being to SkyFall what Thunderball was to Goldfinger. Thunderball was the highest-grossing Bond film of all time until Skyfall came along. Spectre did not break either film's record and it slightly underperformed in the US.

    That's why I compare it to YOLT.

    Let's hope that his last won't be DAF. As much as I love it.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,450
    Mansfield wrote: »
    My first impression of SP was very high (I felt like it was enough in that moment to crack my top five), but upon repeated viewing I have been met with diminished enthusiasm. The last few times I watched it, I didn’t watch it all in one viewing, which is a mark shared among the bottom half of the films in my experience. It has its moments, particularly in the first half. The final third of the film is an abomination that does a significant disservice to the more compelling elements that preceded it.

    I believe I went from having it ranked 6th-9th overall upon that first viewing (some overly excited bias saw to that), and upon repeat viewings it dropped to last place where it'll stay for the foreseeable future.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,402
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Mansfield wrote: »
    My first impression of SP was very high (I felt like it was enough in that moment to crack my top five), but upon repeated viewing I have been met with diminished enthusiasm. The last few times I watched it, I didn’t watch it all in one viewing, which is a mark shared among the bottom half of the films in my experience. It has its moments, particularly in the first half. The final third of the film is an abomination that does a significant disservice to the more compelling elements that preceded it.

    I believe I went from having it ranked 6th-9th overall upon that first viewing (some overly excited bias saw to that), and upon repeat viewings it dropped to last place where it'll stay for the foreseeable future.

    I had it at number 3 ahead of Skyfall when I walked out of theaters opening night. Times have changed.

    Then again I had QOS ahead of CR when I left then too. For some it's the new Bond film high. I had DAD ranked very high in 2002-03. Now its sits in my bottom 5.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,021
    I really can't understand anyone placing SP on the very bottom, not when there's so many lesser films in the series IMO.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,450
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I really can't understand anyone placing SP on the very bottom, not when there's so many lesser films in the series IMO.

    Different strokes for different folks. You could say DAD is an objectively lesser film compared to SP, but at least the former manages to be fun and laid back in its approach: enjoyment is something missing from SP for me. I haven't rewatched it in well over a year or more.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    edited July 2018 Posts: 4,402
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I really can't understand anyone placing SP on the very bottom, not when there's so many lesser films in the series IMO.

    @Birdleson you wanna take this one :D
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I really can't understand anyone placing SP on the very bottom, not when there's so many lesser films in the series IMO.

    Agreed.

    The problem with SP is that at its core, it had the makings of a great Bond film. Some simple tinkering (no childhood connection; no Quantum/Silva connection; stronger third act) and it would have gone from disaster to classic. So frustrating. Still, SP has some terrific moments that still make it an enjoyable experience.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited July 2018 Posts: 17,270
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I really can't understand anyone placing SP on the very bottom, not when there's so many lesser films in the series IMO.

    Different strokes for different folks. You could say DAD is an objectively lesser film compared to SP, but at least the former manages to be fun and laid back in its approach: enjoyment is something missing from SP for me. I haven't rewatched it in well over a year or more.

    This. As visually a treat it may look like, SP is a boring mess (IMO). The enjoyment factor is the strongest factor to me when watching the films. DAD fails on a lot of levels, but it has Brosnan in good form, John Cleese, and entertaining action sequences. On top of that, I found Toby Stephens to be quite good as a nasty main villain.

    Edit: DAD also have the villain and Bond really going at it in that plane sequence. SP have that incredibly lame sequence with Bond shooting at the helicopter with his gun, ending with him walking away from Blofeld on the bridge. I mean - they couldn't think of anything better than that?!
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited July 2018 Posts: 1,263
    Interesting to read responses from other people who had a similar range of opinions from first viewing until now. Granted many people had it on bottom from the premier, and to those people I have to give them credit for being objective from the start. The evening I went to the theater I had the rose tinted glasses on, being very keen on certain aspects of the film and staying engaged with those aspects to fill the void left by the weakness in other parts.

    Though I stopped short of putting it any higher even out of my initial euphoria because I knew I wasn’t connected to the entire film. There were moments I checked my phone to see the time. In stark contrast to SF, where I was on the edge of my seat for the entire length of the film and thought at multiple times it would end only to travel deeper into Bond’s roots.
    Remington wrote: »
    If anything, SF was the TB of the Craig era. We never got his GF.
    Fair opinion, mine is quite different. I have been comparing GF to SF for as long as I have been on here. And while SP was worse than TB, it doesn’t make the analogy of the former any less relevant. In fact, the willingness of EoN to try to draw from the elements of SF in SP supports the notion of SF being this era’s GF. It’s the modern standard they will look to recapture with each entry until some other unique entry draws the financial success that will allow them to change the formula again.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,533
    Mansfield wrote: »
    Interesting to read responses from other people who had a similar range of opinions from first viewing until now. Granted many people had it on bottom from the premier, and to those people I have to give them credit for being objective from the start. The evening I went to the theater I had the rose tinted glasses on, being very keen on certain aspects of the film and staying engaged with those aspects to fill the void left by the weakness in other parts.

    Though I stopped short of putting it any higher even out of my initial euphoria because I knew I wasn’t connected to the entire film. There were moments I checked my phone to see the time. In stark contrast to SF, where I was on the edge of my seat for the entire length of the film and thought at multiple times it would end only to travel deeper into Bond’s roots.
    Remington wrote: »
    If anything, SF was the TB of the Craig era. We never got his GF.
    Fair opinion, mine is quite different. I have been comparing GF to SF for as long as I have been on here. And while SP was worse than TB, it doesn’t make the analogy of the former any less relevant. In fact, the willingness of EoN to try to draw from the elements of SF in SP supports the notion of SF being this era’s GF. It’s the modern standard they will look to recapture with each entry until some other unique entry draws the financial success that will allow them to change the formula again.

    I understand where you're coming from. I was speaking more financially.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It is the single Bond film that I get no joy out of.

    I agree with this completely. If i had to describe SP in one word, I would call it - joyless.

    I can't say that it's the worst Bond film because many cinematic aspects prevent me from doing so, but I have absolutely no desire to watch it, and I've watched it three times only - twice in the theater and once at home.

  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited July 2018 Posts: 4,554
    Superintendent wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It is the single Bond film that I get no joy out of.

    I agree with this completely. If i had to describe SP in one word, I would call it - joyless.

    I can't say that it's the worst Bond film because many cinematic aspects prevent me from doing so, but I have absolutely no desire to watch it, and I've watched it three times only - twice in the theater and once at home.

    I have watched SP a lot, from the PTS to the moment Bond wakes up in the dental chair. From that point on, to me, it is unwatchable. I have watched the final act only 4-5 times.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Well for me,SP is way worse than SF,and TB is a lot better than GF..nuff said.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,402
    TripAces wrote: »
    Superintendent wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It is the single Bond film that I get no joy out of.

    I agree with this completely. If i had to describe SP in one word, I would call it - joyless.

    I can't say that it's the worst Bond film because many cinematic aspects prevent me from doing so, but I have absolutely no desire to watch it, and I've watched it three times only - twice in the theater and once at home.

    I have watched SP a lot, from the PTS to the moment Bond wakes up in the dental chair. From that point on, to me, it is unwatchable. I have watched the final act only 4-5 times.

    The film ends for me at the crater base explosion. I usually skip the London finale.

    How did they go from the borderline epic finale in Skyfall(Yes the home alone reference is there) when Bond hides in the DB5 and mows down with the guns. A decent underwater fight with the ice to the final confrontation with a wounded M with her dying breath to some kinkos printouts and Bond traveling full speed on a boat shooting down a helicopter with as Whittaker put it ( a pop gun) Dont even get me started with Bond escaping a half assed capture.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    I can tolerate It until Bond finishes talking to Blofeld in the old MI6 building,then that's it.

    (Note to self: it will be good to get the MI6 building back in the next re-boot,once this era is closed off.)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    GF>TB
    SF>SP
    GF>SF
    SP>TB
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,892
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Well for me,SP is way worse than SF,and TB is a lot better than GF..nuff said.
    Pretty much agree with this, except a smaller gap between TB and GF.
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    Remington wrote: »
    If anything, SF was the TB of the Craig era. We never got his GF.
    This captures my feelings as well. Good analysis @Remington.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,533
    Bless your heart, @bondsum
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    Remington wrote: »
    If anything, SF was the TB of the Craig era.

    Interesting point, i think i agree with this. They are a bit similar in tone as well (at least in my mind).
    Both TB and SF are easily my favorite movies of each Actor, and the most succesful of their respective era, so it's easy for me to see the similarities.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,958
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Superintendent wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It is the single Bond film that I get no joy out of.

    I agree with this completely. If i had to describe SP in one word, I would call it - joyless.

    I can't say that it's the worst Bond film because many cinematic aspects prevent me from doing so, but I have absolutely no desire to watch it, and I've watched it three times only - twice in the theater and once at home.

    I have watched SP a lot, from the PTS to the moment Bond wakes up in the dental chair. From that point on, to me, it is unwatchable. I have watched the final act only 4-5 times.

    The film ends for me at the crater base explosion. I usually skip the London finale.

    How did they go from the borderline epic finale in Skyfall(Yes the home alone reference is there) when Bond hides in the DB5 and mows down with the guns. A decent underwater fight with the ice to the final confrontation with a wounded M with her dying breath to some kinkos printouts and Bond traveling full speed on a boat shooting down a helicopter with as Whittaker put it ( a pop gun) Dont even get me started with Bond escaping a half assed capture.

    Brilliant!
  • NS_writingsNS_writings Buenos Aires
    Posts: 544
    I prefer SPECTRE over Skyfall (it's even my favourite Bond film of the Craig era, next to Casino Royale), and -likewise- I prefer Thunderball over the rather overrated Goldfinger (which is good, but TB is much more vibrant and darker).
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    NS_writings wrote: »
    I prefer SPECTRE over Skyfall (it's even my favourite Bond film of the Craig era, next to Casino Royale), and -likewise- I prefer Thunderball over the rather overrated Goldfinger (which is good, but TB is much more vibrant and darker).

    ITA. I even prefer MR to TSWLM(though I love both) and DAD to TWINE so I don't follow the supposed consensus that an actor's 003rd Bond film is always better than his 004th.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,533
    Last time I watched MR, I actually enjoyed it more than TSWLM. I feel like I committed blasphemy lol.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,102
    Remington wrote: »
    Last time I watched MR, I actually enjoyed it more than TSWLM. I feel like I committed blasphemy lol.

    I felt the same way. MR is a guilty pleasure of mine, along with TMWTGG and TND. The problem with TSWLM is that it's too slow paced.
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