No Time To Die: Production Diary

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Comments

  • Posts: 1,162
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I'd rather B25 not be a remake of OHMSS.

    Well its not like P and W have the ability to make original stories without the help of an original Fleming novel

    May I refer you to TWINE, still the only script of them of which we know they were allowed to do it alone and not had it seriously altered afterwards cause some directors rather prefered to thrive on their own agenda, logic be damned. Just saying.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    I can see Babs wanting Craig for Bond 26 in 2022 for the 60th anniversary. He will be 54 but who cares? He would probably still look great at 54.

    Firstly there's no way to say this predict this. Secondly I'm not really convinced he looks great right now. This is a very obviously aging man. Look at the press photos of Roger Moore celebrating his 50th birthday when doing TSWLM and then to photos of Craig at any given public event and then dare to deny it. To some of you it must look as if I am constantly trying to piss on Craig tenure, but fact is a great deal of people here on this forum have elevated him to very unrealistic standards and I really don't feel these sentiments are shared by a broader public.

    Since when are Bond fans frikkin' pageant lovers? To use the adage 'Beauty comes from the inside'. Not from Brosnan's hairy chest.
    Do you have to degrade and put down Brosnan in every single "comparison" post you make?
  • Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    So ask yourself this: "If EON is adament at bringing Madeleine back, what would be the best way to do it?"
    Just quickly reveal in the post titles sequence that Bond found out what a boring whiny fart she really was and dumped her. He missed the thrill of the kill. One small mention by MP in the office is all that's required (or warranted) given the lame impression she left.

    I would delete "boring whiny fart" though.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    So ask yourself this: "If EON is adament at bringing Madeleine back, what would be the best way to do it?"
    Just quickly reveal in the post titles sequence that Bond found out what a boring whiny fart she really was and dumped her. He missed the thrill of the kill. One small mention by MP in the office is all that's required (or warranted) given the lame impression she left.

    I would delete "boring whiny fart" though.
    Fair enough. An exaggerated extraneous embellishment from me, betraying my true feelings.
  • Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    So ask yourself this: "If EON is adament at bringing Madeleine back, what would be the best way to do it?"
    Just quickly reveal in the post titles sequence that Bond found out what a boring whiny fart she really was and dumped her. He missed the thrill of the kill. One small mention by MP in the office is all that's required (or warranted) given the lame impression she left.

    I would delete "boring whiny fart" though.
    Fair enough. An exaggerated extraneous embellishment from me, betraying my true feelings.

    That's certainly a trait EON is looking for :-P.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 973
    "If EON is adament at bringing Madeleine back, what would be the best way to do it?

    Opposite to this, a simple way to write her out would be:

    M16 place her in a witness protection program that even Bond doesn't know the whereabouts of to protect her from Spectre agents at large. Just a quick line about this in the first third of the film, job done.

  • Posts: 1,162
    Getafix wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    IF DC stays on board, I'd like to see how they're going to show us what he's been up to in between films.

    After all, he left the Service. So where is he, and how does he get back into "the game"?

    I think Fleming's Bond would have busted up with Maddy long ago. And because he's stubborn and had doubts about his job in the past, he's probably living out his pension by drinking, seducing married women, and gambling his days away.

    But he'd be bored and a little unfocused.

    Meanwhile, some of his senses would be dull. And he doesn't realize that he's been tracked down from someone in his past.

    I mentioned this a couple months back, but it's Camille who's tracked him down. She needs his help. Whatever that may be, it shakes Bond out of his doldrums, and this meeting between them's the catalyst to the bigger story.

    So, no mention of Maddy. It'd be a way of bringing in an exceptional Bond girl. And, IF they're doing a two-part send-off for Craig (I can't see it happening, but I've been wrong many times before), with links to YOLT and OHMSS (still don't see it), I could see Bond falling in love with Camille, and I could see her death having an impact (since she and Craig were good together on screen, and as an actress, I find her stronger than Lea).

    Only my two cents, have at it.

    Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!

    No more stuff from Bond, M or anyone else's past coming back to haunt them please.

    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!
  • Posts: 11,119
    Getafix wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    IF DC stays on board, I'd like to see how they're going to show us what he's been up to in between films.

    After all, he left the Service. So where is he, and how does he get back into "the game"?

    I think Fleming's Bond would have busted up with Maddy long ago. And because he's stubborn and had doubts about his job in the past, he's probably living out his pension by drinking, seducing married women, and gambling his days away.

    But he'd be bored and a little unfocused.

    Meanwhile, some of his senses would be dull. And he doesn't realize that he's been tracked down from someone in his past.

    I mentioned this a couple months back, but it's Camille who's tracked him down. She needs his help. Whatever that may be, it shakes Bond out of his doldrums, and this meeting between them's the catalyst to the bigger story.

    So, no mention of Maddy. It'd be a way of bringing in an exceptional Bond girl. And, IF they're doing a two-part send-off for Craig (I can't see it happening, but I've been wrong many times before), with links to YOLT and OHMSS (still don't see it), I could see Bond falling in love with Camille, and I could see her death having an impact (since she and Craig were good together on screen, and as an actress, I find her stronger than Lea).

    Only my two cents, have at it.

    Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!

    No more stuff from Bond, M or anyone else's past coming back to haunt them please.

    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!

    I will hunt your past. Trust me. That's even worse.
  • Posts: 784
    bondsum wrote: »
    Ah yes, Swan's strong independent woman saved Bond with his own explosive watch. Thanks for reminding me @FoxRox. But as you quite rightly pointed out, it was Bond that had to save her sorry independent ass from getting blown up at the very end. The French actress also had this to say about her multilayered character: “I think she is distinct from all the others. She’s not really a Bond girl – she’s a real character,” said one of the most bland actresses to ever grace a recent Bond movie in living memory. She's got a nerve, I'll give her that much, and she's clearly never watched a Bond picture otherwise she'd never made such an asinine remark. Just how can anyone warm to an actress that hasn't even bothered to do her homework? Beats me, but I'm sure there'll be some here on the forums that think she's everything that she says she is and defend her.

    On a serious note, I really wished that Broccoli and co had the cojones to move on without Craig, especially as he's not too concerned about reprising his role unless he's given an incredibly long sabbatical to recharge his creative juices. It kind of reminds me of the late Roger Moore years when Cubby was too scared to replace Moore for fear of poor BO results. But at least with RM he didn't dictate to Eon when the next movie should be made, he quickly signed on and got the ball moving swiftly. The same cannot be said of the current star.


    To the first paragraph, I'm not really willing to be too hard on Seydoux for her remarks - it's standard media boilerplate and maybe it helps sell a few tickets. What's she supposed to say? "Well, in this movie my character is a 2-dimensional damsel in distress with a great body and flimsy clothes. I'm mostly there to advance the plot and make James look good."

    To the second paragraph, spot on. I take no pleasure in agreeing with you - I'm a big fan of Craig and all his Bond films. But the man is not bigger than the franchise - quite the opposite, in fact. C'mon, EON: you're offering him buckets of money to play a great role every 2-3 years. It should be a no-brainer for the actor. If he's not willing to commit, there's a queue of other chaps ready to step up and commit. Get on with it!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited August 2017 Posts: 9,117
    peter wrote: »
    IF DC stays on board, I'd like to see how they're going to show us what he's been up to in between films.

    After all, he left the Service. So where is he, and how does he get back into "the game"?
    Since when? Madeleine doesn't want to be with him because of 'his life' then sticks around anyway (or not, as far as i'm concearned they're just driving off for a good shag), and the remarks by Q are only in gest, obviously. Why else would they let him into his workshop first and repair the DB5 in the first place? MI6 by any means isn't an organisation you just walk into when you quit.

    Again, I really don't understand why people even consider Madeleine's return. Just because she thought she loved him, sort of? Or tried to claim him (at which point he walked off to do his job) or because he didn't shoot an unarmed psychopath who was trying to get under his skin? Bond doesn't shoot unarmed people, read TMWGG to find out in what kind of trouble he gets because of that.

    There's so many girls he's ended films with in a similar fashion, why should Madeleine be more then that?

    Agree on this. There seem to be some people who see the end of SP as Bond irrevocably quitting the service but what is the actual evidence for this?

    He throws his gun into the river - Yes could be symbolic of him resigning could also be he's beaten Blofeld, is knackered and is going off for a rest and to shag Maddy.

    Q says 'I thought you'd gone' - Bond might have earlier said 'I'm just popping out for a loaf of bread' and this comment would be just as valid. Besides its a small thing but I think if someone I thought had resigned turned up at work I'd probably say 'What are you doing here? I thought you'd left' as in 'left the service' not 'gone'. Don't know why but its always struck me as a strange choice of words for someone you thought had left just popping up at work again, even though there's nothing wrong with gone I suppose. In any event it could just as easily be Q saying 'I thought you'd gone on that shagathon holiday with Maddy'.

    Bond and Maddy drive off into the sunset - Well (apart form the fact its sunrise as TfL wouldnt allow them to close the road for shooting at evening rush hour) what does this prove? They are off on holiday.

    Theres nothing in the film which proves either way that the 'Bond has resigned from the service' hypothesis is any more valid than the 'Bond and Maddy are off on a shagathon holiday before amicably splitting up as she cannot go back to that life and he cannot leave it so there really is no need to mention her moving forward so lets just get on with business in B25' hypothesis.

    In addition what does it matter that she said she loves Bond? Tania says 'I love you, I love you its true' and seems to mean it and at the end they sail off into the sunset in a gondola but she doesnt reappear and GF is none the worse for it.
    bondjames wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I agree @CommanderRoss , I don't want to see or hear of Maddy ever again.

    This is the problem. There's the group which want a soft reboot with a new actor. There's the group which want Blofeld and Madeline back, a complete sequel to SP. There's the group which wants Madeline back, but wants Blofeld to stay in jail for a few films. There's the group which wants Blofeld back, but no mention of Madeline ever again. Then there's also the group which wants Craig back for a standalone mission, with no mention of either Blofeld or Maddy.

    Whatever EON decide, they are going to disappoint most people.
    Which is precisely why they shouldn't have gone down this idiotic direct continuity angle to begin with.

    Never a truer word spoken.
    bondjames wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I agree @CommanderRoss , I don't want to see or hear of Maddy ever again.

    Just........this almost ambivalent hate towards that role........I will probably never understand it. As a Bond-girl Madeleine Swann was way more believable than many of the Brosnan-chicks (Christmas Jones, Jinx, Wai 'Oeeh haa!' Lin, Natalya 'boring' Simonova)
    No hate towards the role. Just severe disappointment at the forgettable performance from the actress who was supposed to capture Bond's heart. It's so pathetic that some have to even defend it by saying Bond isn't the one in love, but rather it's Maddy. Well then what was Smith whining about then? Just a complete disgrace all round. As bad as wanting us to believe that international man of mystery James Bond would have falled for that plank of wood Paris Carver.

    I dont think Seydoux does anything wrong at all. The bottom line which is where we always end up coming back to (give it is the golden rule of film-making) is that the script is bollocks.
  • Posts: 1,162
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    I can see Babs wanting Craig for Bond 26 in 2022 for the 60th anniversary. He will be 54 but who cares? He would probably still look great at 54.

    Firstly there's no way to say this predict this. Secondly I'm not really convinced he looks great right now. This is a very obviously aging man. Look at the press photos of Roger Moore celebrating his 50th birthday when doing TSWLM and then to photos of Craig at any given public event and then dare to deny it. To some of you it must look as if I am constantly trying to piss on Craig tenure, but fact is a great deal of people here on this forum have elevated him to very unrealistic standards and I really don't feel these sentiments are shared by a broader public.

    Since when are Bond fans frikkin' pageant lovers? To use the adage 'Beauty comes from the inside'. Not from Brosnan's hairy chest.

    What a ridiculous argument!
  • Posts: 1,162
    Getafix wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    IF DC stays on board, I'd like to see how they're going to show us what he's been up to in between films.

    After all, he left the Service. So where is he, and how does he get back into "the game"?

    I think Fleming's Bond would have busted up with Maddy long ago. And because he's stubborn and had doubts about his job in the past, he's probably living out his pension by drinking, seducing married women, and gambling his days away.

    But he'd be bored and a little unfocused.

    Meanwhile, some of his senses would be dull. And he doesn't realize that he's been tracked down from someone in his past.

    I mentioned this a couple months back, but it's Camille who's tracked him down. She needs his help. Whatever that may be, it shakes Bond out of his doldrums, and this meeting between them's the catalyst to the bigger story.

    So, no mention of Maddy. It'd be a way of bringing in an exceptional Bond girl. And, IF they're doing a two-part send-off for Craig (I can't see it happening, but I've been wrong many times before), with links to YOLT and OHMSS (still don't see it), I could see Bond falling in love with Camille, and I could see her death having an impact (since she and Craig were good together on screen, and as an actress, I find her stronger than Lea).

    Only my two cents, have at it.

    Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!

    No more stuff from Bond, M or anyone else's past coming back to haunt them please.

    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!

    I will hunt your past. Trust me. That's even worse.

    To be honest I very much prefer you getting lost in my past than crawling around in my present or future.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,568
    Roadphill wrote: »
    The idea that @Gustav_Graves shared has inspired me somewhat.

    Is this thread the place to share personal ideas for Bond 25, or even to share some ideas for improving earlier Bond films?

    Perhaps a mod could comment? I don't wish to annoy anyone by going off topic.
    The former - absolutely. The latter - not so much.
  • Posts: 11,119
    jake24 wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    The idea that @Gustav_Graves shared has inspired me somewhat.

    Is this thread the place to share personal ideas for Bond 25, or even to share some ideas for improving earlier Bond films?

    Perhaps a mod could comment? I don't wish to annoy anyone by going off topic.
    The former - absolutely. The latter - not so much.

    For that I created this topic @Roadphill :-). Sadly, some people who are criticizing each and every part of SP, are not really posting in there :-):
    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/13322/realistic-serious-story-ideas-for-bond-25-to-be-used-by-eon-productions-ltd#latest
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,568
    That's a great thread as well.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 5,923
    @Gustav_Graves , I don't "hate" Madeleine. She was just too robotic. Almost every time she spoke, I heard the script.

    And her chemistry with Craig didn't exist.

    Them "falling in love" was embarrassing to watch, unfortunately. It just didn't feel "real". On the contrary, and especially, in their scene after the dispatching of Hinx, it looked like two actors, in very nice costumes, playing out a scene in drama class...

    I don't think Maddy ever has to come up again. Imagine in a few years time: B25 has been released on Blu-ray. Some of us will watch Sp first, with Bond driving off in the DB5. Then, we'll pop B25 in. The story begins. Hopefully action, romance, and some great escapisms plays out before us. Roll credits, and...

    ... no one will even think about Maddy. At this point, she will just be the girl Bond drives off with at the end of one of the films. Just another Bond girl. That's it. There's no need to ever mention her again.

    They were going for something special with her; may've even looked good on paper. But it didn't work out. Move on from her, like any of the women in 007's life (except, of course, the two big ones).
  • Posts: 1,908
    km16 wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    I can see Babs wanting Craig for Bond 26 in 2022 for the 60th anniversary. He will be 54 but who cares? He would probably still look great at 54.

    He'll look a lot better than Moore did, that's for sure. Moore was a good looking man back in the day but he aged quickly and looked it far more than others for whatever reason.

    But agreed, I can also see them wanting him back for the 60'th. It would also be a perfect way to send-off arguably one of the most well received versions of cinematic Bond ever but then again this franchise lately has been strange the way they've gone about certain things so who is really to say at this point.
    He will totally look better than Moore. Moore also had some plastic surgery on his face done before filming AVTAK so that didn't help Moore at all but Moore still have it 100%. I'm hoping Craig will too if he stays on until Bond26
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 35,199
    @peter, mirrors a large portion of my thoughts on the character. I'm sure the general audiences have already forgotten who she is. No sense in bringing her back, when countless other more memorable Bond girls didn't receive the same treatment.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I agree @CommanderRoss , I don't want to see or hear of Maddy ever again.

    Just........this almost ambivalent hate towards that role........I will probably never understand it. As a Bond-girl Madeleine Swann was way more believable than many of the Brosnan-chicks (Christmas Jones, Jinx, Wai 'Oeeh haa!' Lin, Natalya 'boring' Simonova)
    No hate towards the role. Just severe disappointment at the forgettable performance from the actress who was supposed to capture Bond's heart. It's so pathetic that some have to even defend it by saying Bond isn't the one in love, but rather it's Maddy. Well then what was Smith whining about then? Just a complete disgrace all round. As bad as wanting us to believe that international man of mystery James Bond would have falled for that plank of wood Paris Carver.
    jake24 wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    The idea that @Gustav_Graves shared has inspired me somewhat.

    Is this thread the place to share personal ideas for Bond 25, or even to share some ideas for improving earlier Bond films?

    Perhaps a mod could comment? I don't wish to annoy anyone by going off topic.
    The former - absolutely. The latter - not so much.

    For that I created this topic @Roadphill :-). Sadly, some people who are criticizing each and every part of SP, are not really posting in there :-):
    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/13322/realistic-serious-story-ideas-for-bond-25-to-be-used-by-eon-productions-ltd#latest

    Why would they? Criticism of SP and B25 story ideas are entirely different subjects.
    peter wrote: »
    @Gustav_Graves , I don't "hate" Madeleine. She was just too robotic. Almost every time she spoke, I heard the script.

    And her chemistry with Craig didn't exist.

    Them "falling in love" was embarrassing to watch, unfortunately. It just didn't feel "real". On the contrary, and especially, in their scene after the dispatching of Hinx, it looked like two actors, in very nice costumes, playing out a scene in drama class...

    I don't think Maddy ever has to come up again. Imagine in a few years time: B25 has been released on Blu-ray. Some of us will watch Sp first, with Bond driving off in the DB5. Then, we'll pop B25 in. The story begins. Hopefully action, romance, and some great escapisms plays out before us. Roll credits, and...

    ... no one will even think about Maddy. At this point, she will just be the girl Bond drives off with at the end of one of the films. Just another Bond girl. That's it. There's no need to ever mention her again.

    They were going for something special with her; may've even looked good on paper. But it didn't work out. Move on from her, like any of the women in 007's life (except, of course, the two big ones).

    This.

    4 years down the line they'll be lucky if the public even remember Blofeld didnt die. They certainly wont remember Maddy. They can use this to their advantage - why perform contortions with the script to dig themselves out of this hole when they can just carry on with a standard Bond film and 99.99% of the audience wont even notice?

    Look at DAF - Didn't even acknowledge the fact Bond's wife was killed a mere 2 years ago and did anyone bat an eyelid?

    Give the audience a rip snorting TSWLM style feel good PTS to show Bond is very definitely back and by the time the opening titles start even the odd few who might have remembered who Maddy is will have forgotten her.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe "I need a year off" Craig
    Posts: 7,316
    peter wrote: »
    IF DC stays on board, I'd like to see how they're going to show us what he's been up to in between films.

    After all, he left the Service. So where is he, and how does he get back into "the game"?
    Since when? Madeleine doesn't want to be with him because of 'his life' then sticks around anyway (or not, as far as i'm concearned they're just driving off for a good shag), and the remarks by Q are only in gest, obviously. Why else would they let him into his workshop first and repair the DB5 in the first place? MI6 by any means isn't an organisation you just walk into when you quit.

    Again, I really don't understand why people even consider Madeleine's return. Just because she thought she loved him, sort of? Or tried to claim him (at which point he walked off to do his job) or because he didn't shoot an unarmed psychopath who was trying to get under his skin? Bond doesn't shoot unarmed people, read TMWGG to find out in what kind of trouble he gets because of that.

    There's so many girls he's ended films with in a similar fashion, why should Madeleine be more then that?

    Agree on this. There seem to be some people who see the end of SP as Bond irrevocably quitting the service but what is the actual evidence for this?

    He throws his gun into the river - Yes could be symbolic of him resigning could also be he's beaten Blofeld, is knackered and is going off for a rest and to shag Maddy.

    Q says 'I thought you'd gone' - Bond might have earlier said 'I'm just popping out for a loaf of bread' and this comment would be just as valid. Besides its a small thing but I think if someone I thought had resigned turned up at work I'd probably say 'What are you doing here? I thought you'd left' as in 'left the service' not 'gone'. Don't know why but its always struck me as a strange choice of words for someone you thought had left just popping up at work again, even though there's nothing wrong with gone I suppose. In any event it could just as easily be Q saying 'I thought you'd gone on that shagathon holiday with Maddy'.

    Bond and Maddy drive off into the sunset - Well (apart form the fact its sunrise as TfL wouldnt allow them to close the road for shooting at evening rush hour) what does this prove? They are off on holiday.

    Theres nothing in the film which proves either way that the 'Bond has resigned from the service' hypothesis is any more valid than the 'Bond and Maddy are off on a shagathon holiday before amicably splitting up as she cannot go back to that life and he cannot leave it so there really is no need to mention her moving forward so lets just get on with business in B25' hypothesis.

    In addition what does it matter that she said she loves Bond? Tania says 'I love you, I love you its true' and seems to mean it and at the end they sail off into the sunset in a gondola but she doesnt reappear and GF is none the worse for it.
    bondjames wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I agree @CommanderRoss , I don't want to see or hear of Maddy ever again.

    This is the problem. There's the group which want a soft reboot with a new actor. There's the group which want Blofeld and Madeline back, a complete sequel to SP. There's the group which wants Madeline back, but wants Blofeld to stay in jail for a few films. There's the group which wants Blofeld back, but no mention of Madeline ever again. Then there's also the group which wants Craig back for a standalone mission, with no mention of either Blofeld or Maddy.

    Whatever EON decide, they are going to disappoint most people.
    Which is precisely why they shouldn't have gone down this idiotic direct continuity angle to begin with.

    Never a truer word spoken.
    bondjames wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I agree @CommanderRoss , I don't want to see or hear of Maddy ever again.

    Just........this almost ambivalent hate towards that role........I will probably never understand it. As a Bond-girl Madeleine Swann was way more believable than many of the Brosnan-chicks (Christmas Jones, Jinx, Wai 'Oeeh haa!' Lin, Natalya 'boring' Simonova)
    No hate towards the role. Just severe disappointment at the forgettable performance from the actress who was supposed to capture Bond's heart. It's so pathetic that some have to even defend it by saying Bond isn't the one in love, but rather it's Maddy. Well then what was Smith whining about then? Just a complete disgrace all round. As bad as wanting us to believe that international man of mystery James Bond would have falled for that plank of wood Paris Carver.

    I dont think Seydoux does anything wrong at all. The bottom line which is where we always end up coming back to (give it is the golden rule of film-making) is that the script is bollocks.

    While there is nothing concrete to suggest that Craig's Bond has quit, I think there are some obvious parallels between SP and CR. Most notably the lines "Just because you've done something, doesn't mean you have to keep doing it" from CR, and "what do you think would happen if you did?" "Stop?" "Yes" "I don't know" from SP. There's a clear mirroring there, and since Madeline isn't killed at the end like Vesper was, the implication is that he is finally getting a second chance at the life he had wanted for himself. There is also the connection that Bond's spiritual mission of avenging Vesper is essentially done with. Of course all these doors are left ajar, one because the script was a rushed mess and leaving things ambiguous was less risky than saying something definitive, and two because they didn't know if Craig would return.

    The FRWL comparison you make doesn't really hold up for me. It's nothing like the same relationship. Tatiana has been given a mission (at least she thinks), she is being manipulated from all sides to get what they want. There is nothing in how the two are portrayed which suggests Bond is genuinely in love with this girl. In SP, there is a significance that Madeline has for Bond, outside of how she is useful to him. The way they are directed, it's clear they are supposed to be developing serious feeling for each other by the end, even if its never explicitly stated the type of dialogue is different.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    I can see Babs wanting Craig for Bond 26 in 2022 for the 60th anniversary. He will be 54 but who cares? He would probably still look great at 54.

    Firstly there's no way to say this predict this. Secondly I'm not really convinced he looks great right now. This is a very obviously aging man. Look at the press photos of Roger Moore celebrating his 50th birthday when doing TSWLM and then to photos of Craig at any given public event and then dare to deny it. To some of you it must look as if I am constantly trying to piss on Craig tenure, but fact is a great deal of people here on this forum have elevated him to very unrealistic standards and I really don't feel these sentiments are shared by a broader public.

    What gave you that idea?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    It appears to me like they tried to have it both ways with SP. They appear to have contorted in order to give Craig his 'out' if he wanted it, probably because he wouldn't commit to continuing at that time (pending a new distribution deal or Mendes's involvement). Hence the TDKR style 'off into the sunset' ending. Well, the difference is Bale and Nolan did in fact end it, and therefore the ending of that film had significance.

    I think they should have just gone all in with the story. Either have him more deliberately leave at the end or don't go there at all with the suggestiveness and double meaning. After all, we know that 'all the time in the world' was contemplated originally too.

    Having it dangle in the wind like a flaccid "" for 4 years is a bit tedious especially since his 'wrist slash' comments spurred a whole flurry of replacement actor discussions everywhere. It's like one big extended tease (makes the 'Harris isn't MP' or 'Waltz isn't Blofeld' discussions seem tame in comparison).

    I think a lot of the general public expect the change now, and EON know it, which is why they've tried to walk it back and rebuild enthusiasm with 2-4 months of leaked stories about him contemplating a return etc. etc.

    It was all completely avoidable at the end of the day.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I honestly don't think EON care. Neither does Craig. They tend to do what they what when they want. I know others hate that, I don't particularly mind it. If Bond himself was being crowed at for answers I'm pretty sure he'd act in much the same way, 'You'll have them when I'm ready. In the meantime, go **** yourself'. Because behind the scenes they know exactly what's happening.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 784
    There seem to be some people who see the end of SP as Bond irrevocably quitting the service but what is the actual evidence for this?

    Thanks, Wiz, for addressing something that's been a big pet peeve of mine: there's absolutely no reason to assume he's quit or that Madeline is unique.

    Did anyone think Bond had quit the service all those other times that he switched off the radio, hung up the phone, or otherwise hid from his rescuers so that he could enjoy a slightly longer shag? When Rog cut short his call with Thatcher and gave his watch to the parrot at the end of FYEO, I don't remember thinking, "well, that's him gone then." Nor do I remember thinking, at the beginning of Moonraker, "wait, where's the parrot? And isn't Bond married to Melina now?"

    They could say not a peep about Madeline ever again and the Bond world would keep humming along just fine.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    I honestly don't think EON care. Neither does Craig. They tend to do what they what when they want. I know others hate that, I don't particularly mind it. If Bond himself was being crowed at for answers I'm pretty sure he'd act in much the same way, 'You'll have them when I'm ready. In the meantime, go **** yourself'. Because behind the scenes they know exactly what's happening.
    I know Craig doesn't care. I'm not so sure about MGM or a future distributor.

    No need for answers certainly. They can provide them when they want which is their prerogative. I'm more referring to the ending of SP. If it's really the end then it has significance and resonance. If not, then it sort of cheapens it (a big tease), at least imho.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited August 2017 Posts: 1,159
    Gentlemen, gentleladies, I just had the craziest dream about Bond 25, so hear me out on what my unconscious conscious came up with. This was probably influenced by the last couple of video games I've played, Bond movies I've watched, and Bond novels I've read.

    So, we all know how Judi Dench survived the reboot as M, though an M of a different timeline. Okay, keep that in mind, because this is about to get all Metal Gear Solid 2 on us.

    We open like Goldfinger, where we see Bond on a mission that is seemingly unrelated to the rest of the movie. He sneaks around, takes out some guards, plants a bomb. Only we never quite get a good look at his face... until, again like the PTS from Goldfinger, he finds a beautiful woman to make love to. The camera then reveals that this wasn't James Bond at all... but Sean Bean reprising his role as Alec Trevelyan, 006! Only he's not the
    "surprise" villain this time, just another double-O agent on a mission.

    He returns to Mi6, where M sends him to retrieve Bond. As other's have suggested, Madeline Swann pulled a Tiffany Case and broke up with James between the ending of Spectre and now. Bond, just like at the start of From Russia with Love, is in a bit of a listless funk. Not much of a stretch for Craig's Bond, but he is approached by 006 to return to Mi6. The reason? To quote YOLT, "This is the big one." Specifically, Spectre has returned in the absence of Blofeld and launching a new scheme. Blofeld has all but been abandoned by his former organization for making things too personal and compromising their integrity as a secret organization. Kind of like the original draft of TSWLM being about Blofeld being overthrown by Spectre agents who have grown disastified with his leadership.

    This is why they need James Bond back. Christoph Waltz does make a return as Blofeld, but he takes on more of a Hannibal Lecter type role this time. Isolated in prison, perhaps even a bit deranged at this point, Blofeld is willing to betray Spectre just as they betrayed him, but only if his beloved James is one who speaks with him. A cliche, sure, but I'm a sucker for the classics.

    From here I've lost most of the details, but the rest of mission plays out with 006 as Bond's ally (the twist this time is Sean Bean is neither a villain, nor does he die!) . Similar to OHMSS, in the middle of their mission they bump into Lucia Sciarra (Monica Bellucci) and she becomes our Bond girl midway through the movie (to make up for her minuscule appearance in Spectre). Although a bit comic book, eventually they uncover the hidden Spectre base where they must traverse a series of deathtraps designed by several Spectre operatives. Think something like the obstacle course that Dr. No puts Bond through in the book, or Scaramanga's funhouse of horror. They survive these trials, capture or kill the lead villain, we see the brotherly bond form between 006 and 007 (as a throwback to Goldeneye), and I dunno, maybe Daniel Craig marries Monica Bellucci. This would lead into...

    Blofeld escaping prison. While Mi6 is occupied with Spectre's plot of world destruction, Mr. Hinx returns to bust his former employer out of his cell. Visibly scarred from the train fight from the previous movie, and as another throwback to Jaws, maybe even more of him is metal this time. Plus we can throw in that great line someone else here suggested in a previous thread, "Oh, allow me to introduce my chiropractor; Mr. Hinx!" Blofeld's escape would build up to our faithful adaptation of YOLT.

    I apologize if this sounds a bit rambly, but now I'm prepared to be told this sounds like a bad fanfic. :)
  • Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I agree @CommanderRoss , I don't want to see or hear of Maddy ever again.

    Just........this almost ambivalent hate towards that role........I will probably never understand it. As a Bond-girl Madeleine Swann was way more believable than many of the Brosnan-chicks (Christmas Jones, Jinx, Wai 'Oeeh haa!' Lin, Natalya 'boring' Simonova)
    No hate towards the role. Just severe disappointment at the forgettable performance from the actress who was supposed to capture Bond's heart. It's so pathetic that some have to even defend it by saying Bond isn't the one in love, but rather it's Maddy. Well then what was Smith whining about then? Just a complete disgrace all round. As bad as wanting us to believe that international man of mystery James Bond would have falled for that plank of wood Paris Carver.
    jake24 wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    The idea that @Gustav_Graves shared has inspired me somewhat.

    Is this thread the place to share personal ideas for Bond 25, or even to share some ideas for improving earlier Bond films?

    Perhaps a mod could comment? I don't wish to annoy anyone by going off topic.
    The former - absolutely. The latter - not so much.

    For that I created this topic @Roadphill :-). Sadly, some people who are criticizing each and every part of SP, are not really posting in there :-):
    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/13322/realistic-serious-story-ideas-for-bond-25-to-be-used-by-eon-productions-ltd#latest

    Why would they? Criticism of SP and B25 story ideas are entirely different subjects.
    peter wrote: »
    @Gustav_Graves , I don't "hate" Madeleine. She was just too robotic. Almost every time she spoke, I heard the script.

    And her chemistry with Craig didn't exist.

    Them "falling in love" was embarrassing to watch, unfortunately. It just didn't feel "real". On the contrary, and especially, in their scene after the dispatching of Hinx, it looked like two actors, in very nice costumes, playing out a scene in drama class...

    I don't think Maddy ever has to come up again. Imagine in a few years time: B25 has been released on Blu-ray. Some of us will watch Sp first, with Bond driving off in the DB5. Then, we'll pop B25 in. The story begins. Hopefully action, romance, and some great escapisms plays out before us. Roll credits, and...

    ... no one will even think about Maddy. At this point, she will just be the girl Bond drives off with at the end of one of the films. Just another Bond girl. That's it. There's no need to ever mention her again.

    They were going for something special with her; may've even looked good on paper. But it didn't work out. Move on from her, like any of the women in 007's life (except, of course, the two big ones).

    This.

    4 years down the line they'll be lucky if the public even remember Blofeld didnt die. They certainly wont remember Maddy. They can use this to their advantage - why perform contortions with the script to dig themselves out of this hole when they can just carry on with a standard Bond film and 99.99% of the audience wont even notice?

    Look at DAF - Didn't even acknowledge the fact Bond's wife was killed a mere 2 years ago and did anyone bat an eyelid?

    Give the audience a rip snorting TSWLM style feel good PTS to show Bond is very definitely back and by the time the opening titles start even the odd few who might have remembered who Maddy is will have forgotten her.

    Would sit oddly with the rest of the Craig era to do this. Plus I don't think Craig would agree to it. He will insist on some continuity and character development relating to the events of SP.
  • JeffreyJeffrey The Netherlands
    Posts: 308
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I agree @CommanderRoss , I don't want to see or hear of Maddy ever again.

    Just........this almost ambivalent hate towards that role........I will probably never understand it. As a Bond-girl Madeleine Swann was way more believable than many of the Brosnan-chicks (Christmas Jones, Jinx, Wai 'Oeeh haa!' Lin, Natalya 'boring' Simonova)
    No hate towards the role. Just severe disappointment at the forgettable performance from the actress who was supposed to capture Bond's heart. It's so pathetic that some have to even defend it by saying Bond isn't the one in love, but rather it's Maddy. Well then what was Smith whining about then? Just a complete disgrace all round. As bad as wanting us to believe that international man of mystery James Bond would have falled for that plank of wood Paris Carver.
    jake24 wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    The idea that @Gustav_Graves shared has inspired me somewhat.

    Is this thread the place to share personal ideas for Bond 25, or even to share some ideas for improving earlier Bond films?

    Perhaps a mod could comment? I don't wish to annoy anyone by going off topic.
    The former - absolutely. The latter - not so much.

    For that I created this topic @Roadphill :-). Sadly, some people who are criticizing each and every part of SP, are not really posting in there :-):
    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/13322/realistic-serious-story-ideas-for-bond-25-to-be-used-by-eon-productions-ltd#latest

    Why would they? Criticism of SP and B25 story ideas are entirely different subjects.
    peter wrote: »
    @Gustav_Graves , I don't "hate" Madeleine. She was just too robotic. Almost every time she spoke, I heard the script.

    And her chemistry with Craig didn't exist.

    Them "falling in love" was embarrassing to watch, unfortunately. It just didn't feel "real". On the contrary, and especially, in their scene after the dispatching of Hinx, it looked like two actors, in very nice costumes, playing out a scene in drama class...

    I don't think Maddy ever has to come up again. Imagine in a few years time: B25 has been released on Blu-ray. Some of us will watch Sp first, with Bond driving off in the DB5. Then, we'll pop B25 in. The story begins. Hopefully action, romance, and some great escapisms plays out before us. Roll credits, and...

    ... no one will even think about Maddy. At this point, she will just be the girl Bond drives off with at the end of one of the films. Just another Bond girl. That's it. There's no need to ever mention her again.

    They were going for something special with her; may've even looked good on paper. But it didn't work out. Move on from her, like any of the women in 007's life (except, of course, the two big ones).

    This.

    4 years down the line they'll be lucky if the public even remember Blofeld didnt die. They certainly wont remember Maddy. They can use this to their advantage - why perform contortions with the script to dig themselves out of this hole when they can just carry on with a standard Bond film and 99.99% of the audience wont even notice?

    Look at DAF - Didn't even acknowledge the fact Bond's wife was killed a mere 2 years ago and did anyone bat an eyelid?

    Give the audience a rip snorting TSWLM style feel good PTS to show Bond is very definitely back and by the time the opening titles start even the odd few who might have remembered who Maddy is will have forgotten her.

    Would sit oddly with the rest of the Craig era to do this. Plus I don't think Craig would agree to it. He will insist on some continuity and character development relating to the events of SP.

    If that is very limited and doesn't dominate the story, I think I wouldn't mind. Otherwise I'd rather have a new actor take on the role.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe "I need a year off" Craig
    edited August 2017 Posts: 7,316
    RC7 wrote: »
    I honestly don't think EON care. Neither does Craig. They tend to do what they what when they want. I know others hate that, I don't particularly mind it. If Bond himself was being crowed at for answers I'm pretty sure he'd act in much the same way, 'You'll have them when I'm ready. In the meantime, go **** yourself'. Because behind the scenes they know exactly what's happening.

    What? SP production was a rushed mess. QoS production was a rushed mess. TND production was a rushed mess. DAD and TWINE are considered two lesser Bond films by most fans. The only other films produced by Barbara and Michael went through 4 years of gestation. I have no idea why you continue to come out to bat for EON, as if each film is a grand vision that they have planned to the last detail, until something inevitably out of their hands mucks it up. Can't catch a break these lot, eh? Best laid plans and all that. Fate isn't half cruel to this bunch of world class professionals.
  • Posts: 19,339
    This just in from the Evening Standard :

    Daniel Craig ‘signs up for two more James Bond films’ after being persuaded to return to franchise .

    Daniel Craig has reportedly signed a contract to star in two more James Bond films after being persuaded by producers.

    Despite being on the verge of quitting the franchise following the release of Spectre, the British actor is now expected to appear in two further 007 movies.

    According to reports, Barbara Broccoli has been in negotiations with Craig to up his total to six films, including 2019’s recently announced Bond 25.

    “There was plenty of talk about who would be the next Bond but Barbara has managed to talk Daniel into two more films,” a source told The Sun.

    “He is loved by audiences around the world and has driven a real resurgence for the movies at the box office, so bosses knew they couldn’t lose him just yet.”

    Reports suggest that one of the reasons behind Craig’s U-turn is the fact that Sam Mendes stepped down as director after Spectre.

    “Daniel and Sam were best buddies when they first started working together and you would constantly see them laughing and joking,” said the insider.

    “But after filming had been going on for a while, things started to change. There were a few areas in which they had very different creative opinions and their friendship did become strained.”

    The studio recently announced that the 25th Bond film will hit cinemas on November 8 2019, although the cast and director are yet to be officially revealed.

    "James Bond will return to US cinemas on November 8, 2019 with a traditional earlier release in the UK and the rest of the world,” read a tweet posted to the franchise’s official account.

    Studio bosses went on to say that international release dates and a cast list would be announced “at a later date”.

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