No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,751
    doubleoego wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    It'd be interesting to see what Disney would pay RDJ if he did a standalone IM film again, since it's my understanding that, in big tent pole films, they pay the (known) lead actor's salary based on what they expect the opening weekend to be (hence TC's salary of around $53 million (and why he is demanding more for his next MI film)).

    I don't think it would be extraordinary for the offer for Craig to be in the $70 million range (SP's NA opening weekend) x 2 films with added bonuses equalling out to be in and around $150 million for two films. DC's 007 films have opened higher than his competitors, and his salary is well-worth it if he continues to open strongly (his SP opened $15 million higher than ROGUE NATION at the US box office).

    The very big difference between Craig and someone like Downey is, Bond made Craig, Bond will continue to make any actor who gets the role and Bond has and will always make money. Iron Man did NOT make Downey, it was the other way around. In 2008 Downey in the space of 2 hours changed the game of comic book movies and since the Avengers film, every appearance he's made as the character has grossed over a $Billion.

    Whether it's the media or the average Joe on the street, everyone has an opinion on who the next Bond could and should be. This alone makes it crystal clear that Craig isn't THAT essential; much less beholden to the role where he's being offered $75million per picture to stay. Again, I stand by vehemently that he's nowhere close to being worth that much; on average that means they're looking to pay him almost 40% of the film's budget. It's ridiculous. The studio need to focus on getting great talent in front and behind the camera and that starts with the script. This can't be stressed enough. Bond is Bond, automatic money maker. Reduce the budgets, crank out a great script and you'll get another CR calibre film. This huge payday reeks of irresponsibility and desperation.

    Actually, because of RDJ's drug history, he was a huuuuge gamble for the role. IM re-made RDJ's film career.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,751
    doubleoego wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    It'd be interesting to see what Disney would pay RDJ if he did a standalone IM film again, since it's my understanding that, in big tent pole films, they pay the (known) lead actor's salary based on what they expect the opening weekend to be (hence TC's salary of around $53 million (and why he is demanding more for his next MI film)).

    I don't think it would be extraordinary for the offer for Craig to be in the $70 million range (SP's NA opening weekend) x 2 films with added bonuses equalling out to be in and around $150 million for two films. DC's 007 films have opened higher than his competitors, and his salary is well-worth it if he continues to open strongly (his SP opened $15 million higher than ROGUE NATION at the US box office).

    The very big difference between Craig and someone like Downey is, Bond made Craig, Bond will continue to make any actor who gets the role and Bond has and will always make money. Iron Man did NOT make Downey, it was the other way around. In 2008 Downey in the space of 2 hours changed the game of comic book movies and since the Avengers film, every appearance he's made as the character has grossed over a $Billion.

    Whether it's the media or the average Joe on the street, everyone has an opinion on who the next Bond could and should be. This alone makes it crystal clear that Craig isn't THAT essential; much less beholden to the role where he's being offered $75million per picture to stay. Again, I stand by vehemently that he's nowhere close to being worth that much; on average that means they're looking to pay him almost 40% of the film's budget. It's ridiculous. The studio need to focus on getting great talent in front and behind the camera and that starts with the script. This can't be stressed enough. Bond is Bond, automatic money maker. Reduce the budgets, crank out a great script and you'll get another CR calibre film. This huge payday reeks of irresponsibility and desperation.

    In a f**king nutshell.

    Which is why this story is clearly bullshit. Unless you're a politician you surely don't get to make decisions worth hundreds of millions of dollars if you have no grasp of sound business practice. The accountants who run the studios would do these sums and conclude that this is madness.

    In 1971 Sean got $1m and the budget of DAF was $7.2m.

    That's basically a 7th of the budget, for what, at the time was the most incredible deal for an actor ever.

    For Dan to be getting $75m, and even if we assume that the budget of B25 is the same as the bloated SP budget at $250m, then Dan is worth over a third of the budget?

    Hmm Sean who was the biggest star in the world, who had posters screaming 'Sean Connery IS James Bond' is worth less than half what Daniel Craig is worth?

    Dan is a popular Bond but is he more popular than Sean at his peak? I wouldn't go 'banco' on that one.


    I agree with pretty much all of this. However, good luck telling fans this. Last night on social media I saw comments such as "Bond is worth billions to Sony, they'd be foolish not to pay this much." I tried to explain the "billions" (it's phrased this way in the Radar Online story) was ticket sales not profits, but it didn't matter.

    In a nutshell??? Please take a look at film financing and get back to me. What happened in '71 is not the same as today.

    Trust me: a bankable star's salary, in a TENTPOLE pic is based on projections of OPENING US BOX OFFICE.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,751
    peter wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    It'd be interesting to see what Disney would pay RDJ if he did a standalone IM film again, since it's my understanding that, in big tent pole films, they pay the (known) lead actor's salary based on what they expect the opening weekend to be (hence TC's salary of around $53 million (and why he is demanding more for his next MI film)).

    I don't think it would be extraordinary for the offer for Craig to be in the $70 million range (SP's NA opening weekend) x 2 films with added bonuses equalling out to be in and around $150 million for two films. DC's 007 films have opened higher than his competitors, and his salary is well-worth it if he continues to open strongly (his SP opened $15 million higher than ROGUE NATION at the US box office).

    The very big difference between Craig and someone like Downey is, Bond made Craig, Bond will continue to make any actor who gets the role and Bond has and will always make money. Iron Man did NOT make Downey, it was the other way around. In 2008 Downey in the space of 2 hours changed the game of comic book movies and since the Avengers film, every appearance he's made as the character has grossed over a $Billion.

    Whether it's the media or the average Joe on the street, everyone has an opinion on who the next Bond could and should be. This alone makes it crystal clear that Craig isn't THAT essential; much less beholden to the role where he's being offered $75million per picture to stay. Again, I stand by vehemently that he's nowhere close to being worth that much; on average that means they're looking to pay him almost 40% of the film's budget. It's ridiculous. The studio need to focus on getting great talent in front and behind the camera and that starts with the script. This can't be stressed enough. Bond is Bond, automatic money maker. Reduce the budgets, crank out a great script and you'll get another CR calibre film. This huge payday reeks of irresponsibility and desperation.

    In a f**king nutshell.

    Which is why this story is clearly bullshit. Unless you're a politician you surely don't get to make decisions worth hundreds of millions of dollars if you have no grasp of sound business practice. The accountants who run the studios would do these sums and conclude that this is madness.

    In 1971 Sean got $1m and the budget of DAF was $7.2m.

    That's basically a 7th of the budget, for what, at the time was the most incredible deal for an actor ever.

    For Dan to be getting $75m, and even if we assume that the budget of B25 is the same as the bloated SP budget at $250m, then Dan is worth over a third of the budget?

    Hmm Sean who was the biggest star in the world, who had posters screaming 'Sean Connery IS James Bond' is worth less than half what Daniel Craig is worth?

    Dan is a popular Bond but is he more popular than Sean at his peak? I wouldn't go 'banco' on that one.


    I agree with pretty much all of this. However, good luck telling fans this. Last night on social media I saw comments such as "Bond is worth billions to Sony, they'd be foolish not to pay this much." I tried to explain the "billions" (it's phrased this way in the Radar Online story) was ticket sales not profits, but it didn't matter.

    In a nutshell??? Please take a look at film financing and get back to me. What happened in '71 is not the same as today.

    Trust me: a bankable star's salary, in a TENTPOLE pic is based on projections of OPENING US BOX OFFICE.

    BTW, meant that for @wizard.

  • peter wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    It'd be interesting to see what Disney would pay RDJ if he did a standalone IM film again, since it's my understanding that, in big tent pole films, they pay the (known) lead actor's salary based on what they expect the opening weekend to be (hence TC's salary of around $53 million (and why he is demanding more for his next MI film)).

    I don't think it would be extraordinary for the offer for Craig to be in the $70 million range (SP's NA opening weekend) x 2 films with added bonuses equalling out to be in and around $150 million for two films. DC's 007 films have opened higher than his competitors, and his salary is well-worth it if he continues to open strongly (his SP opened $15 million higher than ROGUE NATION at the US box office).

    The very big difference between Craig and someone like Downey is, Bond made Craig, Bond will continue to make any actor who gets the role and Bond has and will always make money. Iron Man did NOT make Downey, it was the other way around. In 2008 Downey in the space of 2 hours changed the game of comic book movies and since the Avengers film, every appearance he's made as the character has grossed over a $Billion.

    Whether it's the media or the average Joe on the street, everyone has an opinion on who the next Bond could and should be. This alone makes it crystal clear that Craig isn't THAT essential; much less beholden to the role where he's being offered $75million per picture to stay. Again, I stand by vehemently that he's nowhere close to being worth that much; on average that means they're looking to pay him almost 40% of the film's budget. It's ridiculous. The studio need to focus on getting great talent in front and behind the camera and that starts with the script. This can't be stressed enough. Bond is Bond, automatic money maker. Reduce the budgets, crank out a great script and you'll get another CR calibre film. This huge payday reeks of irresponsibility and desperation.

    In a f**king nutshell.

    Which is why this story is clearly bullshit. Unless you're a politician you surely don't get to make decisions worth hundreds of millions of dollars if you have no grasp of sound business practice. The accountants who run the studios would do these sums and conclude that this is madness.

    In 1971 Sean got $1m and the budget of DAF was $7.2m.

    That's basically a 7th of the budget, for what, at the time was the most incredible deal for an actor ever.

    For Dan to be getting $75m, and even if we assume that the budget of B25 is the same as the bloated SP budget at $250m, then Dan is worth over a third of the budget?

    Hmm Sean who was the biggest star in the world, who had posters screaming 'Sean Connery IS James Bond' is worth less than half what Daniel Craig is worth?

    Dan is a popular Bond but is he more popular than Sean at his peak? I wouldn't go 'banco' on that one.


    I agree with pretty much all of this. However, good luck telling fans this. Last night on social media I saw comments such as "Bond is worth billions to Sony, they'd be foolish not to pay this much." I tried to explain the "billions" (it's phrased this way in the Radar Online story) was ticket sales not profits, but it didn't matter.

    In a nutshell??? Please take a look at film financing and get back to me. What happened in '71 is not the same as today.

    Trust me: a bankable star's salary, in a TENTPOLE pic is based on projections of OPENING US BOX OFFICE.

    Understood, but let's look at SPECTRE's U.S. opening weekend (the most recent 007 opening weekend). It was $70 million. The star is paid more than the opening weekend?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,751
    peter wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    It'd be interesting to see what Disney would pay RDJ if he did a standalone IM film again, since it's my understanding that, in big tent pole films, they pay the (known) lead actor's salary based on what they expect the opening weekend to be (hence TC's salary of around $53 million (and why he is demanding more for his next MI film)).

    I don't think it would be extraordinary for the offer for Craig to be in the $70 million range (SP's NA opening weekend) x 2 films with added bonuses equalling out to be in and around $150 million for two films. DC's 007 films have opened higher than his competitors, and his salary is well-worth it if he continues to open strongly (his SP opened $15 million higher than ROGUE NATION at the US box office).

    The very big difference between Craig and someone like Downey is, Bond made Craig, Bond will continue to make any actor who gets the role and Bond has and will always make money. Iron Man did NOT make Downey, it was the other way around. In 2008 Downey in the space of 2 hours changed the game of comic book movies and since the Avengers film, every appearance he's made as the character has grossed over a $Billion.

    Whether it's the media or the average Joe on the street, everyone has an opinion on who the next Bond could and should be. This alone makes it crystal clear that Craig isn't THAT essential; much less beholden to the role where he's being offered $75million per picture to stay. Again, I stand by vehemently that he's nowhere close to being worth that much; on average that means they're looking to pay him almost 40% of the film's budget. It's ridiculous. The studio need to focus on getting great talent in front and behind the camera and that starts with the script. This can't be stressed enough. Bond is Bond, automatic money maker. Reduce the budgets, crank out a great script and you'll get another CR calibre film. This huge payday reeks of irresponsibility and desperation.

    In a f**king nutshell.

    Which is why this story is clearly bullshit. Unless you're a politician you surely don't get to make decisions worth hundreds of millions of dollars if you have no grasp of sound business practice. The accountants who run the studios would do these sums and conclude that this is madness.

    In 1971 Sean got $1m and the budget of DAF was $7.2m.

    That's basically a 7th of the budget, for what, at the time was the most incredible deal for an actor ever.

    For Dan to be getting $75m, and even if we assume that the budget of B25 is the same as the bloated SP budget at $250m, then Dan is worth over a third of the budget?

    Hmm Sean who was the biggest star in the world, who had posters screaming 'Sean Connery IS James Bond' is worth less than half what Daniel Craig is worth?

    Dan is a popular Bond but is he more popular than Sean at his peak? I wouldn't go 'banco' on that one.


    I agree with pretty much all of this. However, good luck telling fans this. Last night on social media I saw comments such as "Bond is worth billions to Sony, they'd be foolish not to pay this much." I tried to explain the "billions" (it's phrased this way in the Radar Online story) was ticket sales not profits, but it didn't matter.

    In a nutshell??? Please take a look at film financing and get back to me. What happened in '71 is not the same as today.

    Trust me: a bankable star's salary, in a TENTPOLE pic is based on projections of OPENING US BOX OFFICE.

    Understood, but let's look at SPECTRE's U.S. opening weekend (the most recent 007 opening weekend). It was $70 million. The star is paid more than the opening weekend?

    No. Not paid more. The estimate salary is based on opening weekend box office projections, hence TC making about $53 million for being EH (MI films open at about $55 million); and if rumours are to be believed, DC being offered "about" $70 million/pic (the opening weekend of SP) is not out of the realm of possibility.

    I know in the real world this accounting is kinda screwed, but film financing is a different beast. And to compare what Connery got paid in '71 to what TC makes for the MI films (that open less than Bond films), or what DC makes on his films, is nuts.

    Look at what they are paying lead actors (in non ensemble pics) for tent pole pics. It will be similar to the opening US Box Office receipts. May not make sense to you, but film financing often doesn't make sense to the best of the economists.

    It is its own beast and, therefore, as nuts as the Radar article may sound, it's pretty close to what to what the film work would offer a DC (a popular actor, making bank in a franchise series).
  • Posts: 6,601
    @doubleoego - RDJ isnt more bankable then DC Outside of IM. Have you Heard or seen this courtfilm of his? Well, not many have either, which just prooves my words. RDJ is nothing without IM. But he is playing the fame game better, you have to give him that.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 2,115
    Presented for informational purposes only.

    Of course, Robert Downey Jr. also did two Sherlock Holmes movies that had worldwide box office of $524 million and $545 million. Not as big as Iron Man, but bigger than The Judge, the aforementioned courtroom drama of his ($84 million).

    Daniel Craig has The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo ($232 million worldwide, although MGM said it lost money), The Adventures of Tintin (voice) ($374 million), Cowboys and Aliens, $175 million, and Dream House ($38.5 million)
  • Posts: 11,425
    @Getafix, how would you like for this era to end? I know you've tossed and turned on the films before, especially with SF, though you seem to like SP a lot better. What developments in another film would really raise it in your mind?

    I just want to enjoy the film with not too many gripes. That's not setting the bar very high I know, but there have been some tough times for Bond fans and just getting a film that is not totally awful from start to finish is a relief.

    I'd like a total ban on lame nods to the past - anything that references GF should be banned.

    I want an end to the Scooby Doo antics of the MI6 team. Focus on Bond.

    I want a strong, slightly weird story with good dialogue and great supporting characters.

    Wonderful use of locations that really put Bond in a truly evocative time and place.

    All the stuff other people have mentioned really.

    Yes for some reason I find SP a much easier watch than SF, although I can totally see all the problems with it that people have highlighted. I don't think Mendes has been brilliant for the Craig era but I guess it could have been a lot worse. And obviously financially it's been pretty successful.

  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited September 2016 Posts: 2,721
    The beauty of the Bond series is it has this pendulous swing. Between YOLT and OHMSS or MR and FYEO even on smaller scales like TLD to LTK then back to GE or MWTGG and TSWLM. Smaller, but perceptible. I love that they get swept up in trends like Blaxploitation or Space films or 80s action. Yes - they're misguided and sometimes they have questionable results. And sometimes I feel like my tastes are not being met. I think I'm more critical of the Bond films that were released once I started getting in to Bond - So Dalton, Brosnan and Craig receive a more critical eye than the earlier films - that's why I withstand more Moore ;-) than Brosnan perhaps - even though half of Moore's films are not up to snuff really. It's all a wonderful tapestry and I can always cling on to From Russia With Love or Casino Royale if I want a Bond film that completely gets me - otherwise I just love the whole outlandishness of it all. It's important for me to view it through two prisms - Bond Fan Me and Film Fan Me. The wants and needs of both are very different!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited September 2016 Posts: 11,139
    peter wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    It'd be interesting to see what Disney would pay RDJ if he did a standalone IM film again, since it's my understanding that, in big tent pole films, they pay the (known) lead actor's salary based on what they expect the opening weekend to be (hence TC's salary of around $53 million (and why he is demanding more for his next MI film)).

    I don't think it would be extraordinary for the offer for Craig to be in the $70 million range (SP's NA opening weekend) x 2 films with added bonuses equalling out to be in and around $150 million for two films. DC's 007 films have opened higher than his competitors, and his salary is well-worth it if he continues to open strongly (his SP opened $15 million higher than ROGUE NATION at the US box office).

    The very big difference between Craig and someone like Downey is, Bond made Craig, Bond will continue to make any actor who gets the role and Bond has and will always make money. Iron Man did NOT make Downey, it was the other way around. In 2008 Downey in the space of 2 hours changed the game of comic book movies and since the Avengers film, every appearance he's made as the character has grossed over a $Billion.

    Whether it's the media or the average Joe on the street, everyone has an opinion on who the next Bond could and should be. This alone makes it crystal clear that Craig isn't THAT essential; much less beholden to the role where he's being offered $75million per picture to stay. Again, I stand by vehemently that he's nowhere close to being worth that much; on average that means they're looking to pay him almost 40% of the film's budget. It's ridiculous. The studio need to focus on getting great talent in front and behind the camera and that starts with the script. This can't be stressed enough. Bond is Bond, automatic money maker. Reduce the budgets, crank out a great script and you'll get another CR calibre film. This huge payday reeks of irresponsibility and desperation.

    Actually, because of RDJ's drug history, he was a huuuuge gamble for the role. IM re-made RDJ's film career.

    I'm aware of this but you're missing the point I'm making. Downey had already been clean and sobre for a few years before he landed Iron Man. He would have been a gamble for any film where he was the lead actor given his past history and I know Favreau and Terrace Howard batted and championed hard for him. The point I'm making is, Iron Man was a c-list character at worst and a b-list character at best. The role of Iron Man isn't like that of Bond. Bond catapaults one into superstardom but with Iron Man, Downey essentially recreated the character and instantly turned him into a pop culture icon in the space of 2 hours; and it's only because of Downey's charm and charisma that' Iron Man is now A-list (at least with Downey in the role). Downey's performance has also heavily influenced his cartoon shows/comic book counterpart and basically saved the character in the advent of the first civil war comic which had turned Stark into the most hated and despised character in Marvel comics. It's going to be infinitely harder to recast Iron Man than recasting Bond. Remember, where Iron Man is now a huge pop culture icon because of Downey, Bond is much MUCH bigger than that; he's a global institution in spite of Craig or any other actor that gets the role.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 11,425
    The Bond role is much bigger than any actor, but RDJ is much bigger than Iron Man. I think I agree. Love LDJ as well. Always highly watchable.

    For anyone who hasn't seen, I highly recommend Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.

    The title seems to reference Bond but not sure how deliberate that is.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Aren t we forgetting that Daniel is also a co-producer?
  • Posts: 11,425
    Aren t we forgetting that Daniel is also a co-producer?

    Good point
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    peter wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    It'd be interesting to see what Disney would pay RDJ if he did a standalone IM film again, since it's my understanding that, in big tent pole films, they pay the (known) lead actor's salary based on what they expect the opening weekend to be (hence TC's salary of around $53 million (and why he is demanding more for his next MI film)).

    I don't think it would be extraordinary for the offer for Craig to be in the $70 million range (SP's NA opening weekend) x 2 films with added bonuses equalling out to be in and around $150 million for two films. DC's 007 films have opened higher than his competitors, and his salary is well-worth it if he continues to open strongly (his SP opened $15 million higher than ROGUE NATION at the US box office).

    The very big difference between Craig and someone like Downey is, Bond made Craig, Bond will continue to make any actor who gets the role and Bond has and will always make money. Iron Man did NOT make Downey, it was the other way around. In 2008 Downey in the space of 2 hours changed the game of comic book movies and since the Avengers film, every appearance he's made as the character has grossed over a $Billion.

    Whether it's the media or the average Joe on the street, everyone has an opinion on who the next Bond could and should be. This alone makes it crystal clear that Craig isn't THAT essential; much less beholden to the role where he's being offered $75million per picture to stay. Again, I stand by vehemently that he's nowhere close to being worth that much; on average that means they're looking to pay him almost 40% of the film's budget. It's ridiculous. The studio need to focus on getting great talent in front and behind the camera and that starts with the script. This can't be stressed enough. Bond is Bond, automatic money maker. Reduce the budgets, crank out a great script and you'll get another CR calibre film. This huge payday reeks of irresponsibility and desperation.

    In a f**king nutshell.

    Which is why this story is clearly bullshit. Unless you're a politician you surely don't get to make decisions worth hundreds of millions of dollars if you have no grasp of sound business practice. The accountants who run the studios would do these sums and conclude that this is madness.

    In 1971 Sean got $1m and the budget of DAF was $7.2m.

    That's basically a 7th of the budget, for what, at the time was the most incredible deal for an actor ever.

    For Dan to be getting $75m, and even if we assume that the budget of B25 is the same as the bloated SP budget at $250m, then Dan is worth over a third of the budget?

    Hmm Sean who was the biggest star in the world, who had posters screaming 'Sean Connery IS James Bond' is worth less than half what Daniel Craig is worth?

    Dan is a popular Bond but is he more popular than Sean at his peak? I wouldn't go 'banco' on that one.


    I agree with pretty much all of this. However, good luck telling fans this. Last night on social media I saw comments such as "Bond is worth billions to Sony, they'd be foolish not to pay this much." I tried to explain the "billions" (it's phrased this way in the Radar Online story) was ticket sales not profits, but it didn't matter.

    In a nutshell??? Please take a look at film financing and get back to me. What happened in '71 is not the same as today.

    Trust me: a bankable star's salary, in a TENTPOLE pic is based on projections of OPENING US BOX OFFICE.

    It's Bond that's the bankable star here not DC.

    Are you telling me Daniel Craig's name on the poster alone would guarantee a $75m opening for any film? Tom Cruise has got decades of proving he can command such fees behind him so if Dan is on more than him he needs to have a word with his agent.

    I don't know shit about how stars fees are calculated but I very much doubt Daisy Ridley or Sam Worthington are now getting the projected opening of the next Star Wars film or Avatar 2.

    Whereas in 71 you could have put Sean's name on a tube of piles cream and it would have sold by the million.

    You may well be correct that in Hollywood they have a rule that a star gets the opening weekend projection. But that doesn't mean you should necessarily pay it.

    You will still make a profit with Bond Dan or no Dan. Ok if you keep him you might get a bigger gross. But your profit margin may well be less and you won't have had to risk as much money in the first place.

    What if a lot of people came out of SP going 'meh' and don't turn up to B25? You're going to look awfully silly if you've signed off on a $250m budget plus $75m for Dan if the film only takes around $600m which since 95, until the anomaly of SF, was about the benchmark for Bond films.

  • edited September 2016 Posts: 12,837
    I think a new actor could actually result in better box office. I get the sense that a lot of people who either had never seen or didn't care about the Bond films went to see Skyfall and really liked it so then went to see Spectre and were disappointed (I think if SF hadn't been the blockbuster it was, SP probably would've flopped with the budget it had, it definitely made a lot of its money off the back of the SF sequel hype imo).

    Establishing that they're going in a fresh new direction with a new star, rather than more of the same, could result in more people going to see it imo. I think that Spectre (which I loved before anyone claims I'm being biased and projecting my own views) might have soured the Craig era in the eyes of many.

    I think the key though is making a film that's well recieved. SP managed to make a lot of money despite the reviews because the Bond brand was in a great place after SF. Not sure that the next film will have that luxury. If they want to keep things in the 800 million to over a billion range then they need to get people back on side I think, they need another film that critics and audiences love if they want another hit. Because lets face it Bond isn't the draw it used to be outside of the UK. Batman for example probably guarantees at least 800 million based off the brand alone regardless of the quality of the film. I'd say that the Bond brand guarantees roughly half of that.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited September 2016 Posts: 4,116
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I'm not sure it's we see this has a satisfrying resolution, it's more like we see what happened in SPECTRE painting this era into a corner with the ESB/Bond past element.

    Rather than continue down this path and lead it gods knows where some of us like me think it might be better to call it quits and start in a new timeline with an established Bond rather than another origin situation.

    SPECTRE has made some of us think please don't pursue this any longer because we shudder to think where it's going.

    Now if they want to give us the resolution that OHMSS never got then fair enough, yes we have to go down the route of having Swann murdered by SPECTRE but what else do you do with this era?

    If they want Bond out for revenge than no better person for the job than Craig, trying to make him Roger Moore like in SP just didn't work, DC needs the tense layered portrayal to really sing in the role, making him an indestructible quip machine just doesn't work.

    Agreed. The story if pursued just leads to more revenge and heartbreak ...boring we've seen that. Don't y'all want something new and fresh? EoN can always try Blofeld again later down the line ...he's not dead.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    If they're going to use Blofeld, take example of Moriarty, making Bond run for his money. Power play and mind games between the two. Make him hold on to his worth as an archenemy. Surely he's no longer Dr. Claw from some Inspector Gadget cartoon, with a twist of melodramatic brother-issues. Guy Ritchie created helluva of a villain with Moriarty in Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows, and Jared Harris portrayed the character all too brilliantly. Xander Berkeley was sardonic and sarcastic villain in Nikita and managed to live up to the menace he's been spreading into the hearts of his enemies. And there was no revenge angle in either of these aforementioned subjects. Can't they try and make a straightforward Bond thriller with these elements instead?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited September 2016 Posts: 9,117
    If they're going to use Blofeld, take example of Moriarty, making Bond run for his money. Power play and mind games between the two. Make him hold on to his worth as an archenemy. Surely he's no longer Dr. Claw from some Inspector Gadget cartoon, with a twist of melodramatic brother-issues. Guy Ritchie created helluva of a villain with Moriarty in Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows, and Jared Harris portrayed the character all too brilliantly. Xander Berkeley was sardonic and sarcastic villain in Nikita and managed to live up to the menace he's been spreading into the hearts of his enemies. And there was no revenge angle in either of these aforementioned subjects. Can't they try and make a straightforward Bond thriller with these elements instead?

    Absolutely.

    What has this Blofeld actually done to put him in the super villain league?

    We only think he's Bond's nemesis because we are told he's called Blofeld.

    If he'd stayed as plain Franny Oberhauser we'd be saying what a lame villain he is.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    If they're going to use Blofeld, take example of Moriarty, making Bond run for his money. Power play and mind games between the two. Make him hold on to his worth as an archenemy. Surely he's no longer Dr. Claw from some Inspector Gadget cartoon, with a twist of melodramatic brother-issues. Guy Ritchie created helluva of a villain with Moriarty in Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows, and Jared Harris portrayed the character all too brilliantly. Xander Berkeley was sardonic and sarcastic villain in Nikita and managed to live up to the menace he's been spreading into the hearts of his enemies. And there was no revenge angle in either of these aforementioned subjects. Can't they try and make a straightforward Bond thriller with these elements instead?

    Absolutely.

    What has this Blofeld actually done to put him in the super villain league?

    We only think he's Bond's nemesis because we are told he's called Blofeld.

    If he'd stayed as plain Franny Oberhauser we'd be saying what a lame villain he is.
    We're told he heads a secret society of conspirators and that's just it. He's not even menacing. Just Elliot Carver without the enthusiasm, that's what Franz Oberhauser was personality-wise. Blofeld should be the nemesis who locks horns with Bond and wrestle with him both physically and psychologically until someone, after a long lasting game of chess, announces checkmate. And very climactically at that! Spectre's first trailer promised this, but didn't deliver it. I have the same complaint about the portrayal of the organization. We thought Bond is going to fight the villains from Eyes Wide Shut, but actually ended up "dismantling" (if that is the case) a pale rogue nation. If people feared that "organization", then in that Bond universe, the average norm of the pedestrian has an IQ below the underdeveloped mind of a three year old from our world.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    Watching Spectre again, Craig did a great job (he made the film watchable), but I think his attitude felt a bit forced. I feel he worked better playing the subtly cool, testosterone driven, "depressed" Bond worked really well. I don't know. I feel like Craig can pull off an origin Bond way better than a "arc-complete" Bond.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,751

    peter wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    It'd be interesting to see what Disney would pay RDJ if he did a standalone IM film again, since it's my understanding that, in big tent pole films, they pay the (known) lead actor's salary based on what they expect the opening weekend to be (hence TC's salary of around $53 million (and why he is demanding more for his next MI film)).

    I don't think it would be extraordinary for the offer for Craig to be in the $70 million range (SP's NA opening weekend) x 2 films with added bonuses equalling out to be in and around $150 million for two films. DC's 007 films have opened higher than his competitors, and his salary is well-worth it if he continues to open strongly (his SP opened $15 million higher than ROGUE NATION at the US box office).

    The very big difference between Craig and someone like Downey is, Bond made Craig, Bond will continue to make any actor who gets the role and Bond has and will always make money. Iron Man did NOT make Downey, it was the other way around. In 2008 Downey in the space of 2 hours changed the game of comic book movies and since the Avengers film, every appearance he's made as the character has grossed over a $Billion.

    Whether it's the media or the average Joe on the street, everyone has an opinion on who the next Bond could and should be. This alone makes it crystal clear that Craig isn't THAT essential; much less beholden to the role where he's being offered $75million per picture to stay. Again, I stand by vehemently that he's nowhere close to being worth that much; on average that means they're looking to pay him almost 40% of the film's budget. It's ridiculous. The studio need to focus on getting great talent in front and behind the camera and that starts with the script. This can't be stressed enough. Bond is Bond, automatic money maker. Reduce the budgets, crank out a great script and you'll get another CR calibre film. This huge payday reeks of irresponsibility and desperation.

    In a f**king nutshell.

    Which is why this story is clearly bullshit. Unless you're a politician you surely don't get to make decisions worth hundreds of millions of dollars if you have no grasp of sound business practice. The accountants who run the studios would do these sums and conclude that this is madness.

    In 1971 Sean got $1m and the budget of DAF was $7.2m.

    That's basically a 7th of the budget, for what, at the time was the most incredible deal for an actor ever.

    For Dan to be getting $75m, and even if we assume that the budget of B25 is the same as the bloated SP budget at $250m, then Dan is worth over a third of the budget?

    Hmm Sean who was the biggest star in the world, who had posters screaming 'Sean Connery IS James Bond' is worth less than half what Daniel Craig is worth?

    Dan is a popular Bond but is he more popular than Sean at his peak? I wouldn't go 'banco' on that one.


    I agree with pretty much all of this. However, good luck telling fans this. Last night on social media I saw comments such as "Bond is worth billions to Sony, they'd be foolish not to pay this much." I tried to explain the "billions" (it's phrased this way in the Radar Online story) was ticket sales not profits, but it didn't matter.

    In a nutshell??? Please take a look at film financing and get back to me. What happened in '71 is not the same as today.

    Trust me: a bankable star's salary, in a TENTPOLE pic is based on projections of OPENING US BOX OFFICE.

    It's Bond that's the bankable star here not DC.

    Are you telling me Daniel Craig's name on the poster alone would guarantee a $75m opening for any film? Tom Cruise has got decades of proving he can command such fees behind him so if Dan is on more than him he needs to have a word with his agent.

    I don't know shit about how stars fees are calculated but I very much doubt Daisy Ridley or Sam Worthington are now getting the projected opening of the next Star Wars film or Avatar 2.

    Whereas in 71 you could have put Sean's name on a tube of piles cream and it would have sold by the million.

    You may well be correct that in Hollywood they have a rule that a star gets the opening weekend projection. But that doesn't mean you should necessarily pay it.

    You will still make a profit with Bond Dan or no Dan. Ok if you keep him you might get a bigger gross. But your profit margin may well be less and you won't have had to risk as much money in the first place.

    What if a lot of people came out of SP going 'meh' and don't turn up to B25? You're going to look awfully silly if you've signed off on a $250m budget plus $75m for Dan if the film only takes around $600m which since 95, until the anomaly of SF, was about the benchmark for Bond films.

    @wizard, I agree Bond made Craig, but, I think Craig also made Bond. After DAD, Bond was at an all time low critically. Craig re-invented Bond to almost universal praise (against a spiteful, online backlash that predicted he'd be fired after one film; a challenge RDJ did not have to face in light of IM).

    In a separate universe would (runner-up), Henry Cavil's version of CR been as popular and ground-breaking? Judging by his acting ability compared to DC, I think not. He may have been serviceable in the role, I doubt very much ground-breaking.

    So as much as DC was made by Bond, he also re-created and put Bond back on the map in a big way. In one film, he changed the game. That's impressive.

    Re: Worthington and his ilk, he has never been able to open a picture, and he is now part of ensemble casts, so, no he wouldn't be looking at huge pay-days (comparatively speaking).

    I am talking of known LEADING ACTORS in TENTPOLE FILMS. You may not agree with the accounting (most outside of the film industry don't), but these pay days do exist.

    As far as TC, outside of MI films, his openings have taken a hit recently (hence why I believe there is now a snaggle with his salary on the new MI pic-- he wants more, the studio is digging their heels in).

    So yes, when DC's face is on a BOND poster, it's likely to bring in audiences.

    Remember, it's not '71, or, the peak of the star system, the 80s, where the Arnolds and Slys, and Bruces were slugging it out at the box office and their faces on posters would immediately open movies.

    Nowadays, very few outside of Denzel Washington and TC (who is more hit or miss outside of MI) can open films. It's a far different star system.

    DC's very much imbedded in this role; his face on a 007 poster means bank, and the producers are willing to pay him a star-like salary to get him back into the tux (however, if he were the star of another film outside of 007, I can assure you his salary would take a huge hit and be more grounded in the reality and expectation of that film).
  • Posts: 1,092
    We don't know the details of this supposed deal. It's much more likely the total payout for Craig over the course of making these 2 films would be potentially 150, not that they are paying him that up front. Back-in grosses, especially since he would most likely be a producer again on both like in SP, could absolutely total 150 mil, no problem if the films are the same level of success of his last two (2 billion just from the BO and not counting DVD and BD sales, TV rights, etc). I read Keanu Reeves got about 300 from the Matrix movies in total. It's not just a straight salary but EVERYTHING down the line they are counting here.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 2,115
    //What if a lot of people came out of SP going 'meh' and don't turn up to B25? You're going to look awfully silly if you've signed off on a $250m budget plus $75m for Dan if the film only takes around $600m which since 95, until the anomaly of SF, was about the benchmark for Bond films.//

    In the U.S. market, Bond films sell between 23 million and 27 million *tickets* with one exception.

    The exception is Skyfall at 37 million. (That was about the same number as You Only Live Twice.)

    Other than that, SPECTRE is on the low end at 23 million, Die Another Day was at 27 million.
  • Meanwhile, this stat may be insignificant, but for what it's worth...

    Skyfall gross: roughly $2.8 million a day ($304.4 million divided by 109 days of release).

    SPECTRE gross: roughly $1.3 million a day ($200 million divided by 154 days of release).
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    This is where the story can get interesting, so stuff being painted into a corner, I say. Neither does Madeleine have to die.

    As for Craig being like Roger in SP, all I can do is giggle at that statement. If he was playing by anyone's rulebook, it was Sean's. Dan's Bond has actual menace and carries moments of weight, which Roger was never good at, the one or two times the scripts allowed him to try.

    Craig had menace, I thought he lost it in SPECTRE, sorry I saw a film pretty much devoid of suspense, even the torture sequence I felt no danger.

    Craig did feel like Sean Bond previously but it was more like Pierce or Rog here for me.

    I just don't feel anything where SPECTRE is concerned it's just quite flat and considering it's budget its not up there on the screen.

    I'll always have my obvious low points of the series, DAF, OP, VTAK and in my opinion the Brosnan era full stop but films like YOLT or MR I'm seeing in a new light now.

    SPECTRE isn't the worst of the worst but considering what was at stake, the fact the whole DC era was building to this moment, it's all incredibly underwhelming and feels like a waste, on this alone SP will be ranking near the bottom of my list in future.

    I'm waiting to see it on Blu ray when it's cheap enough and then I'll write a review of it and try and exorcise my feelings out but as you've probably guessed I'm so deflated, frustrated and utterly disappointed by this film that a reboot seems the safest option.

    As someone who loves Craig as Bond something clearly went wrong for me to feel this way.
  • Aren t we forgetting that Daniel is also a co-producer?

    I didn't know that Daniel Craig is also a co-producer for SPECTRE (2015) as well?

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Craig had menace, I thought he lost it in SPECTRE, sorry I saw a film pretty much devoid of suspense, even the torture sequence I felt no danger.
    I tend to agree.
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Craig did feel like Sean Bond previously but it was more like Pierce or Rog here for me.
    I agree again. He certainly had a commendable early Connery intensity in CR & QoS. I haven't felt that in the last two Mendes entries & I miss it. I wonder if it is by design though (to show maturity).

    I thought he had more early Moore in him in SF, but in SP he definitely reminded me more of later Moore and Brosnan. It's in the smirks, expressions and quips, which just give me a cheesy feeling.
  • Once you compare Craig's Bond in SP with that of Brosnan's later outings, one has to dig into the acting. While all the jokes and cheesiness was indeed written as such, it was mostly stuff outside the realm of Craig's acting.

    For me, Craig therefore felt much more like Connery in TB. Yes, Craig reminded people of Moore and Brosnan, but that's mainly because of the surrounding writing efforts. Craig is Craig, and his strong method acting and staunch coldness when portraying the role, was still present in SP. Just like Connery.

    On thee whole, as a person, I think Craig is more comparable to Connery as well.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
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  • edited September 2016 Posts: 4,325
    Once you compare Craig's Bond in SP with that of Brosnan's later outings, one has to dig into the acting. While all the jokes and cheesiness was indeed written as such, it was mostly stuff outside the realm of Craig's acting.

    For me, Craig therefore felt much more like Connery in TB. Yes, Craig reminded people of Moore and Brosnan, but that's mainly because of the surrounding writing efforts. Craig is Craig, and his strong method acting and staunch coldness when portraying the role, was still present in SP. Just like Connery.

    On thee whole, as a person, I think Craig is more comparable to Connery as well.

    Yes, I think it was more in the situations as written. Pushing the Fiat felt like it was straight out of a Moore Bond. Falling on the couch somehow felt somehow like it was out of a Brosnan Bond.

    Incidentally I remember tabloid reports of how Bond was going to be driving a Fiat in the chase!
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