No Time To Die: Production Diary

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Comments

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    This revenge thing seems like a step backward in my view. After all, Bond seemed to be beyond all of this in SP.

    While I understand that they may want to go back there in order for Craig to have some acting meat on the bone, I just think it's a bit of a retread based on what he's been through already.
  • Posts: 10,541
    Pretty much. I think most of us have had enough of the "this time it's personal" themes. I think it worked very well in CR and SF, but with QoS and SP, they had to rely on the films around them to function. I'd like to see another CR or SF kind of film that can stand on its own and also within Craig's continuity.
  • mattjoesmattjoes ...and actor Cesare Danova in the role of "Actor"
    Posts: 4,475
    boldfinger wrote: »
    How about this scenario:
    Tanner kills Madeline out of jealousy, because he was deeply in love with Bond.
    Blofeld wants the credit for himself and kills Tanner.
    Bond forgets about Madeline and goes after Blofeld, because noone kills a fellow MI6 member without inciting Bond´s sense for revenge.
    M gets furious, because no MI6 agent acts without M´s strict orders without inciting M´s sense for order, so M sends out half of MI6 to hunt down Bond.
    Because half of MI6 is out looking for Bond, M has to hire helps from a subcontractor, which in turn is a door for Blofeld to sneak people of his own into MI6.
    Bond looks for help from Felix Leiter, but President Trump fired Leiter and wants to put him in jail for treason. So Leiter too is on the run. But he´s got a friend left in the CIA, whom he hooks up with Bond: Jinx.
    So we´ll get to see all: Love, death, treason, moles, system paraoia, rogue agents, revenge, and a pre-finale fight between Jinx and Hinx.

    This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.......... I love it!
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited September 2017 Posts: 1,756
    Honestly with all of this BS going on with North Korea & Co. a YOLT-esque movie would be quite fitting; big villain with a huge lair and all. I mean a certain somebody has a nuclear testing facility inside a volcano mountain.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    edited September 2017 Posts: 2,991
    If this is true, then B25 will be exactly the kind of film that I was afraid of it being after first seeing SP's ending; repetitive, revenge-driven BS.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 10,541
    If this is true, then B25 will be exactly the kind of film that I was afraid of it being after first seeing SP's ending; repetitive, revenge-driven BS.

    I agree. If these rumors are true Bond 25 will likely make SP look great by comparison. If this leak is real it will be one of if not the weakest EON Bond film. Sounds so lazy and unoriginal.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited September 2017 Posts: 3,767
    M gets furious, because no MI6 agent acts without M´s strict orders without inciting M´s sense for order, so M sends out half of MI6 to hunt down Bond.
    Because half of MI6 is out looking for Bond, M has to hire helps from a subcontractor, which in turn is a door for Blofeld to sneak people of his own into MI6.

    If hunt down Tanner insteed of Bond and M gives Bond 5 hour to find Tanner. Plus mabey created scene where M said hard ''NO'' when Moneypenny and Q whant to go with him. Something that wil save his life when the new Mi6 be atacked / taken over whyle Bond is not there.


    Camile and Felix should be only one to help.
  • RC7RC7
    edited September 2017 Posts: 10,488
    FoxRox wrote: »
    If this is true, then B25 will be exactly the kind of film that I was afraid of it being after first seeing SP's ending; repetitive, revenge-driven BS.

    I agree. If these rumors are true Bond 25 will likely make SP look great by comparison. If this leak is real it will be one of if not the weakest EON Bond film. Sounds so lazy and unoriginal.

    I think you guys should take this with a pinch of salt and remain optimistic.
  • Posts: 10,541
    I'm not assuming it's true, but it would not be a stretch to imagine.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    They have to do better than just revenge as they scratched that itch in QOS and they risk making a mockery of Bond's realisation at the end that 'The dead don't care about vengeance.'

    If they are going down the YOLT route then leave Maddy well alone and make Blofeld a mad dog that needs putting down for the good of the planet and for the cumulative deaths of Vesper and M but don't make it solely about revenge.
  • I don't think if they go down the YOLT route it necessarily has to be about revenge, but I hope that they don't just go "garden of death, cool" take that and then just do a straightforward Bond is sent by MI6 to stop Blofeld film either. I think how bleak and surreal it is is what makes the book special and a broken self doubting Bond, not sure where he's going until he finds renewed purpose towards the end, is a big part of that imo.

    So I think you do have to break Bond down and put him in a dark place to do it justice. But the more I think about it the more I'm not keen on killing Madeline off (and especially not keen on them getting married, please don't let that be true). But I think she does have to be addressed.

    How about she leaves Bond because he can't live a normal life. Sparing Blofeld has put him on edge when he hears about his escape (I really like your idea of footage of him torturing Vesper being shown at his trial too @TheWizardOfIce, that'd get to Bond, make him more menacing and make the retcon more believeable) and he's paranoid. On edge. Madeline leaves him and this sends him into a spiral of self destruction, drinking, self pity, etc. Madeline, his last chance at happiness, is gone. So he blames Blofeld for ruining his life. And with no work to focus on, he's got nothing to stop himself from sitting and mulling over the events of the last few films. He's being forced to deal with feelings he'd repressed (maybe he could develop PTSD?) and seeing that footage of Vesper in particular has opened up old wounds. M hears of how he is, pities him, offers him a new job in the diplomatic section out of sympathy, and then we get YOLT.

    Bit contrived but more interesting than Madeline dying right? The "Taken with Bond" comments have be a bit worried too. Bond isn't out for revenge in YOLT. Not until the end anyway. Most of the book is just him going down the rabbit hole on this weird surreal journey. You'd have to add more action obviously (bullet train fight please) but I think a whole film of him knowingly hunting down Blofeld would be missing the point a bit. I probably sound picky but it's my favourite of the novels and this would be the only Bond adaptation where I hadn't seen the film first (didn't start reading the books until after CR came out), so if they're going to use it I just hope they do it properly.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I don't think if they go down the YOLT route it necessarily has to be about revenge, but I hope that they don't just go "garden of death, cool" take that and then just do a straightforward Bond is sent by MI6 to stop Blofeld film either. I think how bleak and surreal it is is what makes the book special and a broken self doubting Bond, not sure where he's going until he finds renewed purpose towards the end, is a big part of that imo.

    So I think you do have to break Bond down and put him in a dark place to do it justice. But the more I think about it the more I'm not keen on killing Madeline off (and especially not keen on them getting married, please don't let that be true). But I think she does have to be addressed.

    How about she leaves Bond because he can't live a normal life. Sparing Blofeld has put him on edge when he hears about his escape (I really like your idea of footage of him torturing Vesper being shown at his trial too @TheWizardOfIce, that'd get to Bond, make him more menacing and make the retcon more believeable) and he's paranoid. On edge. Madeline leaves him and this sends him into a spiral of self destruction, drinking, self pity, etc. Madeline, his last chance at happiness, is gone. So he blames Blofeld for ruining his life. And with no work to focus on, he's got nothing to stop himself from sitting and mulling over the events of the last few films. He's being forced to deal with feelings he'd repressed (maybe he could develop PTSD?) and seeing that footage of Vesper in particular has opened up old wounds. M hears of how he is, pities him, offers him a new job in the diplomatic section out of sympathy, and then we get YOLT.

    Bit contrived but more interesting than Madeline dying right? The "Taken with Bond" comments have be a bit worried too. Bond isn't out for revenge in YOLT. Not until the end anyway. Most of the book is just him going down the rabbit hole on this weird surreal journey. You'd have to add more action obviously (bullet train fight please) but I think a whole film of him knowingly hunting down Blofeld would be missing the point a bit. I probably sound picky but it's my favourite of the novels and this would be the only Bond adaptation where I hadn't seen the film first (didn't start reading the books until after CR came out), so if they're going to use it I just hope they do it properly.

    The idea I had of using the footage was more to show that Blofeld is a total and utter bastard than to break Bond and leave him a self pitying loser blaming Blofeld for his plight. That just makes him as pathetic as Franz Oberhauser and I don't think audiences want to see Bond sat at home all depressed with the washing up and Dominos boxes piling up while he sits around in his pants watching 8 Out Of 10 Cats Does Countdown.

    The problem they've got is to do justice to YOLT the previous film needs to lead into it, but of course they've already cocked that up.

    Murdock wrote: »
    It's called bantz mate. You need to lighten up.

    It's pretty easy to say that behind a keyboard mate. I stick up for my friends.

    Are you offering me outside for an undignified rumble in the street?

    The mid 90's, when everyone went on the internet for the first time, called and wants its threats back.

    You seem to have totally lost the plot at what was a bit of good natured joshing by @barryt007 and at same time seem to have proved Partridge's point.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    @thelivingroyale , I don't have a problem with Madeleine leaving Bond because he can't live a normal life. I'm not keen on the idea of him going into a drunken state of depression on account of it though. Smith already gave me enough of this sap with his dirge and I'd rather not have to endure any more of it. Madeleine isn't even worth the bother imho and SP didn't build up their relationship well enough for this to work.

    I like the Vesper flashback idea though (any chance for Eva Green returning would be worth it).

    My preference would be for Madeleine to be dealt with off-camera prior to the film starting (either she died or she left him) and let B25 start a few years after the events of SP.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 12,421
    Murdock wrote: »
    It's called bantz mate. You need to lighten up.

    It's pretty easy to say that behind a keyboard mate. I stick up for my friends.

    I think it's actually easier in person to be fair. I think we all give our friends shit and take the piss out of them in person don't we, and everyone involved knows it's just a laugh. But on a forum, with written text posts from people we don't really know, it's much easier for something meant as a joke to be taken to heart. You can rip into someone in person and be laughing and joking and they can tell it isn't malicious in the slightest. Bit harder to get that across through an anomynous message board I reckon, but @BondJason doesn't seem to have taken issue with it so he probably understands it's all just banter. No harm done. Besides he was/is in the army. He'll be used to banter like that.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    edited September 2017 Posts: 16,058
    Are you offering me outside for an undignified rumble in the street?

    The mid 90's, when everyone went on the internet for the first time, called and wants its threats back.

    You seem to have totally lost the plot at what was a bit of good natured joshing by @barryt007 and at same time seem to have proved Partridge's point.

    Oh I'm sorry, did I strike a nerve? I must bow in forgiveness to the almighty wizard. Don't make me laugh. I didn't threaten you at all. Why don't you stop hiding behind Partridge and just own up to your mistakes.
    I think it's actually easier in person to be fair. I think we all give our friends shit and take the piss out of them in person don't we, and everyone involved knows it's just a laugh. But on a forum, with written text posts from people we don't really know, it's much easier for something meant as a joke to be taken to heart. You can rip into someone in person and be laughing and joking and they can tell it isn't malicious in the slightest. Bit harder to get that across through an anomynous message board I reckon, but @BondJason doesn't seem to have taken issue with it so he probably understands it's all just banter. No harm done. Besides he was/is in the army. He'll be used to banter like that.

    @thelivingroyale, It's easy to do I'm sure but sometimes words hurt people. But you can't know for sure how Jason feels. If he wants to chip in, I'm sure he will but when I see my friends treated like this, whether or not it was a joke, I'm going to call it out like I see it.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 12,421
    @TheWizardOfIce I think Bond is more of a Top Gear repeats on Dave man when it comes to depressed lounging around TV watching but I see what you mean with the footage now. But I would like to see a broken depressed Bond, who hates Blofeld for ruining his life, because I think it's a must to do YOLT right. I completely get why people aren't keen but I think they have the opportunity so may as well go for it. Go all out, get all of the personal drama out of their systems with this one and really do YOLT justice, and then we can go back to straightforward Bond on a mission films with the next actor.
    bondjames wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale , I don't have a problem with Madeleine leaving Bond because he can't live a normal life. I'm not keen on the idea of him going into a drunken state of depression on account of it though. Smith already gave me enough of this sap with his dirge and I'd rather not have to endure any more of it. Madeleine isn't even worth the bother imho and SP didn't build up their relationship well enough for this to work.

    I like the Vesper flashback idea though (any chance for Eva Green returning would be worth it).

    My preference would be for Madeleine to be dealt with off-camera prior to the film starting (either she died or she left him) and let B25 start a few years after the events of SP.

    To clarify, the depression would be because his last chance at a normal life has gone out the window and because with no missions to go on he's finally been forced to deal with the trauma of all he's been through, but I get you. I don't mind if her leaving happens off camera either. I just think a broken Bond is a must if they're going down the YOLT route. I can see why people aren't keen and I was routing for a recast and a stand alone film myself, but with Craig being back and them sort of setting it up this seems like the perfect opportunity to go down the YOLT route so that's what I'd like to see. Go all out, make it dark and surreal and character driven, and then do something more fun and straight forward with the next actor (preferrably only two years later rather than half a decade but not holding my breath).
  • Posts: 1,906
    I don't think if they go down the YOLT route it necessarily has to be about revenge, but I hope that they don't just go "garden of death, cool" take that and then just do a straightforward Bond is sent by MI6 to stop Blofeld film either. I think how bleak and surreal it is is what makes the book special and a broken self doubting Bond, not sure where he's going until he finds renewed purpose towards the end, is a big part of that imo.

    So I think you do have to break Bond down and put him in a dark place to do it justice. But the more I think about it the more I'm not keen on killing Madeline off (and especially not keen on them getting married, please don't let that be true). But I think she does have to be addressed.

    How about she leaves Bond because he can't live a normal life. Sparing Blofeld has put him on edge when he hears about his escape (I really like your idea of footage of him torturing Vesper being shown at his trial too @TheWizardOfIce, that'd get to Bond, make him more menacing and make the retcon more believeable) and he's paranoid. On edge. Madeline leaves him and this sends him into a spiral of self destruction, drinking, self pity, etc. Madeline, his last chance at happiness, is gone. So he blames Blofeld for ruining his life. And with no work to focus on, he's got nothing to stop himself from sitting and mulling over the events of the last few films. He's being forced to deal with feelings he'd repressed (maybe he could develop PTSD?) and seeing that footage of Vesper in particular has opened up old wounds. M hears of how he is, pities him, offers him a new job in the diplomatic section out of sympathy, and then we get YOLT.

    Bit contrived but more interesting than Madeline dying right? The "Taken with Bond" comments have be a bit worried too. Bond isn't out for revenge in YOLT. Not until the end anyway. Most of the book is just him going down the rabbit hole on this weird surreal journey. You'd have to add more action obviously (bullet train fight please) but I think a whole film of him knowingly hunting down Blofeld would be missing the point a bit. I probably sound picky but it's my favourite of the novels and this would be the only Bond adaptation where I hadn't seen the film first (didn't start reading the books until after CR came out), so if they're going to use it I just hope they do it properly.

    I like your ideas
  • fjdinardo wrote: »
    I don't think if they go down the YOLT route it necessarily has to be about revenge, but I hope that they don't just go "garden of death, cool" take that and then just do a straightforward Bond is sent by MI6 to stop Blofeld film either. I think how bleak and surreal it is is what makes the book special and a broken self doubting Bond, not sure where he's going until he finds renewed purpose towards the end, is a big part of that imo.

    So I think you do have to break Bond down and put him in a dark place to do it justice. But the more I think about it the more I'm not keen on killing Madeline off (and especially not keen on them getting married, please don't let that be true). But I think she does have to be addressed.

    How about she leaves Bond because he can't live a normal life. Sparing Blofeld has put him on edge when he hears about his escape (I really like your idea of footage of him torturing Vesper being shown at his trial too @TheWizardOfIce, that'd get to Bond, make him more menacing and make the retcon more believeable) and he's paranoid. On edge. Madeline leaves him and this sends him into a spiral of self destruction, drinking, self pity, etc. Madeline, his last chance at happiness, is gone. So he blames Blofeld for ruining his life. And with no work to focus on, he's got nothing to stop himself from sitting and mulling over the events of the last few films. He's being forced to deal with feelings he'd repressed (maybe he could develop PTSD?) and seeing that footage of Vesper in particular has opened up old wounds. M hears of how he is, pities him, offers him a new job in the diplomatic section out of sympathy, and then we get YOLT.

    Bit contrived but more interesting than Madeline dying right? The "Taken with Bond" comments have be a bit worried too. Bond isn't out for revenge in YOLT. Not until the end anyway. Most of the book is just him going down the rabbit hole on this weird surreal journey. You'd have to add more action obviously (bullet train fight please) but I think a whole film of him knowingly hunting down Blofeld would be missing the point a bit. I probably sound picky but it's my favourite of the novels and this would be the only Bond adaptation where I hadn't seen the film first (didn't start reading the books until after CR came out), so if they're going to use it I just hope they do it properly.

    I like your ideas

    Thank you. I like your profile picture. Brosnan always looked unbelieveably cool with a gun in his hand.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale , I don't have a problem with Madeleine leaving Bond because he can't live a normal life. I'm not keen on the idea of him going into a drunken state of depression on account of it though. Smith already gave me enough of this sap with his dirge and I'd rather not have to endure any more of it. Madeleine isn't even worth the bother imho and SP didn't build up their relationship well enough for this to work.

    I like the Vesper flashback idea though (any chance for Eva Green returning would be worth it).

    My preference would be for Madeleine to be dealt with off-camera prior to the film starting (either she died or she left him) and let B25 start a few years after the events of SP.

    To clarify, the depression would be because his last chance at a normal life has gone out the window and because with no missions to go on he's finally been forced to deal with the trauma of all he's been through, but I get you. I don't mind if her leaving happens off camera either. I just think a broken Bond is a must if they're going down the YOLT route. I can see why people aren't keen and I was routing for a recast and a stand alone film myself, but with Craig being back and them sort of setting it up this seems like the perfect opportunity to go down the YOLT route so that's what I'd like to see. Go all out, make it dark and surreal and character driven, and then do something more fun and straight forward with the next actor (preferrably only two years later rather than half a decade but not holding my breath).
    I hear you and most likely this is the direction they will head in. I just wish they had set it up in a better manner with SP. They definitely tried to have it both (all?) ways with that film and sort of botched the lead in, unnecessarily complicating matters imho.

    You're right though. Since they've got Craig back they might as well go all in.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,725
    The only way I can see this happening - properly, is if they are two back to back films and a new love intrest pops up- a better one- and then she is killed and then yolt. But why would he marry madeline?- shes a shit character. Just because she is mr whites daughter doesnt mean "shes the only one who couldve understood him"
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited September 2017 Posts: 10,547
    I think that's excellent, @thelivingroyale, and definitely the direction I was hoping they'd go in following SP. I can't imagine that people who want a classically structured Bond film would appreciate it, but as long as they have Craig in the role I would much prefer they play to his strengths in the way that you've described.

    God I hope this happens.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale , I don't have a problem with Madeleine leaving Bond because he can't live a normal life. I'm not keen on the idea of him going into a drunken state of depression on account of it though. Smith already gave me enough of this sap with his dirge and I'd rather not have to endure any more of it. Madeleine isn't even worth the bother imho and SP didn't build up their relationship well enough for this to work.

    I like the Vesper flashback idea though (any chance for Eva Green returning would be worth it).

    My preference would be for Madeleine to be dealt with off-camera prior to the film starting (either she died or she left him) and let B25 start a few years after the events of SP.

    To clarify, the depression would be because his last chance at a normal life has gone out the window and because with no missions to go on he's finally been forced to deal with the trauma of all he's been through, but I get you. I don't mind if her leaving happens off camera either. I just think a broken Bond is a must if they're going down the YOLT route. I can see why people aren't keen and I was routing for a recast and a stand alone film myself, but with Craig being back and them sort of setting it up this seems like the perfect opportunity to go down the YOLT route so that's what I'd like to see. Go all out, make it dark and surreal and character driven, and then do something more fun and straight forward with the next actor (preferrably only two years later rather than half a decade but not holding my breath).
    I hear you and most likely this is the direction they will head in. I just wish they had set it up in a better manner with SP. They definitely tried to have it both (all?) ways with that film and sort of botched the lead in, unnecessarily complicating matters imho.

    You're right though. Since they've got Craig back they might as well go all in.
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale , I don't have a problem with Madeleine leaving Bond because he can't live a normal life. I'm not keen on the idea of him going into a drunken state of depression on account of it though. Smith already gave me enough of this sap with his dirge and I'd rather not have to endure any more of it. Madeleine isn't even worth the bother imho and SP didn't build up their relationship well enough for this to work.

    I like the Vesper flashback idea though (any chance for Eva Green returning would be worth it).

    My preference would be for Madeleine to be dealt with off-camera prior to the film starting (either she died or she left him) and let B25 start a few years after the events of SP.

    To clarify, the depression would be because his last chance at a normal life has gone out the window and because with no missions to go on he's finally been forced to deal with the trauma of all he's been through, but I get you. I don't mind if her leaving happens off camera either. I just think a broken Bond is a must if they're going down the YOLT route. I can see why people aren't keen and I was routing for a recast and a stand alone film myself, but with Craig being back and them sort of setting it up this seems like the perfect opportunity to go down the YOLT route so that's what I'd like to see. Go all out, make it dark and surreal and character driven, and then do something more fun and straight forward with the next actor (preferrably only two years later rather than half a decade but not holding my breath).
    I hear you and most likely this is the direction they will head in. I just wish they had set it up in a better manner with SP. They definitely tried to have it both (all?) ways with that film and sort of botched the lead in, unnecessarily complicating matters imho.

    You're right though. Since they've got Craig back they might as well go all in.

    I understand what you mean about trying to have it both ways with SP. The blend of different styles (classic Bond but also character focused like the other Craig films) is what I loved about it but it was a weird choice. On the one hand it was a deliberate Moore/Brosnan throwback, on the other hand they seemed to want to set up a Tracy retread (I think Bunt and "we have all the time in the world" both being in the script at one point makes that clear). I thought it worked well but I understand why it's been so divisive because by trying to have it both ways, they alienated a lot of fans who would have been happy if they'd gone all out on either approach (a proper old school OTT Bond film or a proper Craig Bond film).

    I hope that you enjoy the next one more. It'd be nice to get another film that nearly all of us can enjoy again. That really added to the excitement when SF came out I think. There were so many posts on here unaminously singing its praises (got a bit more divisive as time went on but in those early days nearly all of us seemed to love it).
  • Posts: 5,813
    No one's going to remember Madeleine four years after Sp. If any of the general public does, she was "just another Bond girl never seen from again."

    I'd love to see Bond living off the grid, perhaps even enjoying this life (albeit a little restlessly); he spends the days with married mistresses, the nights in the casinos... But, yes, he does have that "itch". He does realize that the life he's leading is meandering...

    So, when he hears there's a hearing for Blofeld, Bond sneaks back into the country to bare witness. And this is where he sees the video of Blofeld torturing Vesper.

    Bond's blood boils, but--

    It's within seconds of this video showing that--

    A huge explosion and Blofeld is sprung from jail (leaving behind a bunch of corpses)...

    Later that day, SPECTRE's big ticking-time bomb scheme is revealed. It has to be something that is also a trap to bring Bond out from the bushes he hides in.

    Bond, loaded with the "itch", the video of Vesper, and knowing, although this is a trap, his country is calling him, marches back into MI6 (since "Blofeld's a bit of a must" for him, on several different levels). He asks M for his licence to kill.

    No Maddy. Not even a mention of her.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 12,421
    jake24 wrote: »
    I think that's excellent, @thelivingroyale, and definitely the direction I was hoping they'd go in following SP. I can't imagine that people who want a classically structured Bond film would appreciate it, but as long as they have Craig in the role I would much prefer they play to his strengths in the way that you've described.

    God I hope this happens.

    Same, I'm praying that the next few details we get will hint at that direction (if they end up location scouting in Japan for example my excitement levels will go through the roof). I was all for a classically structured Bond film to be honest but that was when I thought there'd be a new actor. But instead Craig is back for one more, and since we'll be getting a refresh/reboot of sorts in a few years anyway where they can do something more old school and traditional they may as well go all in and do something different for the next one. Please the Fleming fans and give Craig some proper dramatic material to sink his teeth into. YOLT would be right up his street. They've got the perfect opportunity and the perfect Bond for it so like you I really hope that's what they do.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale , I don't have a problem with Madeleine leaving Bond because he can't live a normal life. I'm not keen on the idea of him going into a drunken state of depression on account of it though. Smith already gave me enough of this sap with his dirge and I'd rather not have to endure any more of it. Madeleine isn't even worth the bother imho and SP didn't build up their relationship well enough for this to work.

    I like the Vesper flashback idea though (any chance for Eva Green returning would be worth it).

    My preference would be for Madeleine to be dealt with off-camera prior to the film starting (either she died or she left him) and let B25 start a few years after the events of SP.

    To clarify, the depression would be because his last chance at a normal life has gone out the window and because with no missions to go on he's finally been forced to deal with the trauma of all he's been through, but I get you. I don't mind if her leaving happens off camera either. I just think a broken Bond is a must if they're going down the YOLT route. I can see why people aren't keen and I was routing for a recast and a stand alone film myself, but with Craig being back and them sort of setting it up this seems like the perfect opportunity to go down the YOLT route so that's what I'd like to see. Go all out, make it dark and surreal and character driven, and then do something more fun and straight forward with the next actor (preferrably only two years later rather than half a decade but not holding my breath).
    I hear you and most likely this is the direction they will head in. I just wish they had set it up in a better manner with SP. They definitely tried to have it both (all?) ways with that film and sort of botched the lead in, unnecessarily complicating matters imho.

    You're right though. Since they've got Craig back they might as well go all in.
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale , I don't have a problem with Madeleine leaving Bond because he can't live a normal life. I'm not keen on the idea of him going into a drunken state of depression on account of it though. Smith already gave me enough of this sap with his dirge and I'd rather not have to endure any more of it. Madeleine isn't even worth the bother imho and SP didn't build up their relationship well enough for this to work.

    I like the Vesper flashback idea though (any chance for Eva Green returning would be worth it).

    My preference would be for Madeleine to be dealt with off-camera prior to the film starting (either she died or she left him) and let B25 start a few years after the events of SP.

    To clarify, the depression would be because his last chance at a normal life has gone out the window and because with no missions to go on he's finally been forced to deal with the trauma of all he's been through, but I get you. I don't mind if her leaving happens off camera either. I just think a broken Bond is a must if they're going down the YOLT route. I can see why people aren't keen and I was routing for a recast and a stand alone film myself, but with Craig being back and them sort of setting it up this seems like the perfect opportunity to go down the YOLT route so that's what I'd like to see. Go all out, make it dark and surreal and character driven, and then do something more fun and straight forward with the next actor (preferrably only two years later rather than half a decade but not holding my breath).
    I hear you and most likely this is the direction they will head in. I just wish they had set it up in a better manner with SP. They definitely tried to have it both (all?) ways with that film and sort of botched the lead in, unnecessarily complicating matters imho.

    You're right though. Since they've got Craig back they might as well go all in.

    I understand what you mean about trying to have it both ways with SP. The blend of different styles (classic Bond but also character focused like the other Craig films) is what I loved about it but it was a weird choice. On the one hand it was a deliberate Moore/Brosnan throwback, on the other hand they seemed to want to set up a Tracy retread (I think Bunt and "we have all the time in the world" both being in the script at one point makes that clear). I thought it worked well but I understand why it's been so divisive because by trying to have it both ways, they alienated a lot of fans who would have been happy if they'd gone all out on either approach (a proper old school OTT Bond film or a proper Craig Bond film).

    I hope that you enjoy the next one more. It'd be nice to get another film that nearly all of us can enjoy again. That really added to the excitement when SF came out I think. There were so many posts on here unaminously singing its praises (got a bit more divisive as time went on but in those early days nearly all of us seemed to love it).
    I'm sure I'll enjoy it more. As long as Craig reconnects with his Bond and the performances, characterizations, score & visuals are on a higher level than SP I will be able to forgive a lot.

    SP has been a terribly divisive film for the fan community, and it's quite unfortunate all round. More than anything, I think the negativity is there because of the connectivity. If it was a standalone film nobody would mind that much imho, but the fact that it is a part of a connected (and potentially continuing) whole and fell flat with so many people is where the problem really lies imho. That's really why I wanted Craig out.

    B26 is the one I can't wait for though, and I hope it's out two years after B25, as you said. I'm not getting any younger!
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,547
    jake24 wrote: »
    I think that's excellent, @thelivingroyale, and definitely the direction I was hoping they'd go in following SP. I can't imagine that people who want a classically structured Bond film would appreciate it, but as long as they have Craig in the role I would much prefer they play to his strengths in the way that you've described.

    God I hope this happens.

    Same, I'm praying that the next few details we get will hint at that direction (if they end up location scouting in Japan for example my excitement levels will go through the roof). I was all for a classically structured Bond film to be honest but that was when I thought there'd be a new actor. But instead Craig is back for one more, and since we'll be getting a refresh/reboot of sorts in a few years anyway where they can do something more old school and traditional they may as well go all in and do something different for the next one. Please the Fleming fans and give Craig some proper dramatic material to sink his teeth into. YOLT would be right up his street. They've got the perfect opportunity and the perfect Bond for it so like you I really hope that's what they do.
    You and me both, mate. Fingers crossed.

    @peter another sound idea.
  • Posts: 5,813
    Thanks @jake24! Took a little of what I had written before and mixed it with @TheWizardOfIce and his idea...

    (on a separate matter: so far I haven't been able to get tics for the premiere of KINGS (today I walked into a s-storm (from kids going back to school, to business on my end); but, no matter, I will be there to see DC arrive with my teenage kids (who all love DC-- although my boy couldn't stand SP to the point it had almost ruined his entire feelings about the franchise... Luckily he is cooling (after he recently saw CR while up at a friends cottage this summer-- he was blown away again by how good it was , so, as another Bond famously said-- "saved by the bell"))...
  • MancAliceMancAlice Manchester
    Posts: 20
    @peter Love the idea!
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,547
    peter wrote: »
    Thanks @jake24! Took a little of what I had written before and mixed it with @TheWizardOfIce and his idea...

    (on a separate matter: so far I haven't been able to get tics for the premiere of KINGS (today I walked into a s-storm (from kids going back to school, to business on my end); but, no matter, I will be there to see DC arrive with my teenage kids (who all love DC-- although my boy couldn't stand SP to the point it had almost ruined his entire feelings about the franchise... Luckily he is cooling (after he recently saw CR while up at a friends cottage this summer-- he was blown away again by how good it was , so, as another Bond famously said-- "saved by the bell"))...
    Shame you weren't able to get tickets, but hopefully you'll at least be able to see DC.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale , I don't have a problem with Madeleine leaving Bond because he can't live a normal life. I'm not keen on the idea of him going into a drunken state of depression on account of it though. Smith already gave me enough of this sap with his dirge and I'd rather not have to endure any more of it. Madeleine isn't even worth the bother imho and SP didn't build up their relationship well enough for this to work.

    I like the Vesper flashback idea though (any chance for Eva Green returning would be worth it).

    My preference would be for Madeleine to be dealt with off-camera prior to the film starting (either she died or she left him) and let B25 start a few years after the events of SP.

    To clarify, the depression would be because his last chance at a normal life has gone out the window and because with no missions to go on he's finally been forced to deal with the trauma of all he's been through, but I get you. I don't mind if her leaving happens off camera either. I just think a broken Bond is a must if they're going down the YOLT route. I can see why people aren't keen and I was routing for a recast and a stand alone film myself, but with Craig being back and them sort of setting it up this seems like the perfect opportunity to go down the YOLT route so that's what I'd like to see. Go all out, make it dark and surreal and character driven, and then do something more fun and straight forward with the next actor (preferrably only two years later rather than half a decade but not holding my breath).
    I hear you and most likely this is the direction they will head in. I just wish they had set it up in a better manner with SP. They definitely tried to have it both (all?) ways with that film and sort of botched the lead in, unnecessarily complicating matters imho.

    You're right though. Since they've got Craig back they might as well go all in.
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale , I don't have a problem with Madeleine leaving Bond because he can't live a normal life. I'm not keen on the idea of him going into a drunken state of depression on account of it though. Smith already gave me enough of this sap with his dirge and I'd rather not have to endure any more of it. Madeleine isn't even worth the bother imho and SP didn't build up their relationship well enough for this to work.

    I like the Vesper flashback idea though (any chance for Eva Green returning would be worth it).

    My preference would be for Madeleine to be dealt with off-camera prior to the film starting (either she died or she left him) and let B25 start a few years after the events of SP.

    To clarify, the depression would be because his last chance at a normal life has gone out the window and because with no missions to go on he's finally been forced to deal with the trauma of all he's been through, but I get you. I don't mind if her leaving happens off camera either. I just think a broken Bond is a must if they're going down the YOLT route. I can see why people aren't keen and I was routing for a recast and a stand alone film myself, but with Craig being back and them sort of setting it up this seems like the perfect opportunity to go down the YOLT route so that's what I'd like to see. Go all out, make it dark and surreal and character driven, and then do something more fun and straight forward with the next actor (preferrably only two years later rather than half a decade but not holding my breath).
    I hear you and most likely this is the direction they will head in. I just wish they had set it up in a better manner with SP. They definitely tried to have it both (all?) ways with that film and sort of botched the lead in, unnecessarily complicating matters imho.

    You're right though. Since they've got Craig back they might as well go all in.

    I understand what you mean about trying to have it both ways with SP. The blend of different styles (classic Bond but also character focused like the other Craig films) is what I loved about it but it was a weird choice. On the one hand it was a deliberate Moore/Brosnan throwback, on the other hand they seemed to want to set up a Tracy retread (I think Bunt and "we have all the time in the world" both being in the script at one point makes that clear). I thought it worked well but I understand why it's been so divisive because by trying to have it both ways, they alienated a lot of fans who would have been happy if they'd gone all out on either approach (a proper old school OTT Bond film or a proper Craig Bond film).

    I hope that you enjoy the next one more. It'd be nice to get another film that nearly all of us can enjoy again. That really added to the excitement when SF came out I think. There were so many posts on here unaminously singing its praises (got a bit more divisive as time went on but in those early days nearly all of us seemed to love it).
    I'm sure I'll enjoy it more. As long as Craig reconnects with his Bond and the performances, characterizations, score & visuals are on a higher level than SP I will be able to forgive a lot.

    SP has been a terribly divisive film for the fan community, and it's quite unfortunate all round. More than anything, I think the negativity is there because of the connectivity. If it was a standalone film nobody would mind that much imho, but the fact that it is a part of a connected (and potentially continuing) whole and fell flat with so many people is where the problem really lies imho. That's really why I wanted Craig out.

    B26 is the one I can't wait for though, and I hope it's out two years after B25, as you said. I'm not getting any younger!

    Nope, the reasons SPECTRE was criticised were the brother angle, the scooby gang overdose, an uninteresting love interest who is supposed to be Bond's new great love and a boring third act. Also, the fact the movie lacks an identity as it both tries to be an OTT yet a Craig movie at the same time, as stated above. Those were the movie's main problems.
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