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That's why scientists call their proposals "theories" as they know that they have to be proved by evidence to become accepted. (I have yet to see any religion that used this methodology ). The flat earth theory was never actually proved.
If only religion had that ability to review its own ideas and change so quickly.
"Baby cancer? yes, good point, perhaps we should review the theory that God is a good person"
All religions are just theories until proved by evidence. I think I will use that in future - the theory of Islam, the theory of Christianiy etc etc
Because it's God's will ? So the Pope is actually arguing with his boss :-D
It's not the only cause of issues in school, but it sure is one of them: religion tells children to dismiss critical thinking. It gives them made up answers and sometimes downright tells them fallacies. We know for a fact that humans are the result of evolution. Telling them otherwise is a lie and does not exactly equip them to understand our world, its history, its biology, its complexity. We know for a fact that medicine has a better success rate than prayers, we know for a fact that knowing about contraceptives works better to avoid unwanted pregnancies and STDs than abstinence only sex ed classes. We know for a fact that homosexuality is not a disease and that homosexuals can love as much as heterosexuals. We also know for a fact that homophobia pushes a lot of young homosexuals to suicide. You sure the place of religious teaching in school has absolutely nothing to do with it? A vicar or a bishop knows nothing but his own belief, which are at best unsubstantiated. Then why do we allow one to preach in public schools and the other to make the laws of the country (or at least play a role in making them)?
All fair play to the religious and the religious apologists who are indifferent to it. I don't want to repeat myself, as I've stated all my arguments before quite amply, but I and many other atheists here, especially @TheWizardOfIce (we never agree on anything as much as this point), have a hard time acting all laissez faire about religion, shrugging it off with a "Whatcha gonna do?" attitude. I don't think it's an issue one could or should take so cavalierly, at least from my perspective.
I wouldn't get so fired up about religion if it was innocuous, or if it was true that it was harmless and believing in it/supporting it does nobody any harm. But of course this is a stark delusion, and I think we all know that if we be honest with ourselves. You can't look at the history of censorship, exile and murder the churches of the world have rallied with their bible in hand and simply say, "that was a long time ago, we're better now." There issues aren't just old age though, as we still see battles having to be fought over religion being forced in law, education and politics, with ideas like creationism are expected to be given the leg up on proven scientific ideas and data. But what of the social perspective? This one is perhaps the most barbaric, as it has such a monumental and deep effect even to this day. It's barely been years, not even a "few" years, since the united states made gay law a right to those of the LGBT community. This was 2015, mind you, and the only thing stopping an extremely sensical human right from being given to the gay community was...you guessed it, religion. So much anal outrage over "marriage is between a man and woman, we can't allow this" and other such delusions as bibles were thumped for centuries over such a simple matter.
I guess the experience of religion and how one views it comes from the environment you're raised in, as that will have the biggest impact on what religion will mean to you. If you're born in Ireland and get drowned (I think they call it baptism in some circles) right out of the womb and grow up in a society that shoves those beliefs down your throat like historical fact, chances are you're far more susceptible as a malleable mind to believe it. As you grow up and see the problems of religion, it will naturally also make you more capable and willing to deny the things you don't like about the faith, and how it affects others, as you've been trained to see it as a positive part of life and either way that has been your life. It can't all be full of it, right?
If you grew up like me, however, and were raised by parents that actually allowed you to make up your own mind about things and that never drug you to church, if you found yourself meeting and loving gay people in your life and if you had family members who were openly gay and couldn't get married despite the fact that they had been together longer than what would qualify for a common law marriage in the states, perhaps you would find yourself fired up too. The life I have lived and the people I love and how they have been affected by this innocuous religion are why I can get so cut up about it, because I see its effects every day and in more worse ways than good.
And that's not to say there aren't good, either. I have a religious text on my bookcase, largely because I simply like reading but also because I need to be reading up on what the other side believes so I can refute them even easier than usual. But in reading the story of Jesus, and what he stood for, it becomes something to lament that religion never has lived up to his teachings on the grand scale. You will find nice old women preaching togetherness in a local church or a naive yet endearing priest in a small town speaking of being good to your neighbor, but the main arm of the faith, the Catholic machine, is an utter abomination and the opposite of what Jesus, real or ordinary, would want as the "face" of religion in the western world. A guy who made contact with the poor wouldn't take too well to his daddy's passed on learnings being used to ostracize and lead hate crimes against those who don't fit the strict expectations of who people need to be. I also don't think that he'd appreciate the loopholes churches jump through in their tax free, donation driven model, or how they use their power to oppress, and not lift up.
It can't be the case that all us atheists are cynics who just need to get over it already and lighten up. Maybe there is a real problem here and we're the first group to say, "Hey, this doesn't seem kosher." The real positive here is that we no longer live in a society where we'd be burned for telling the truth about religion, where we'd be exiled to our homes or where we would fear publishing our facts because of the church's ability to kill us with impunity. The church's strict repression of their priest's sex drives (an unnatural development in human biology, mind) will make far too many kids the victims of more than tickle fights, and we'll still have to suffer creationists trying to explain that God and God alone designed the banana for how it peels back and is economically edible (there's a video, look it up), but let's call progress progress. Gays finally have natural rights, I no longer have to swear on a bible if I head to court, and science is more widespread every day. These are no small victories, and religion is dying. Not soon enough, but on a terminal scale it's getting a cold and light headache. In a century I hope it has at least the mumps, maybe an ear infection and, at some point in the future, stage 3 cancer. ;)
That's very Buddhist of you, man.
Jainism, ..... a great bunch of lads. If anyone became an extremist of this religion
they just be even nicer to you. :-D
@Ludovico re your last post, powerful words, well written.
Meanwhile, India has made a formal complaint to the Australian High Commision re the offence caused ("Mohamed cant make it" - no, of course not,)
Thanks @Ludovico . I guess that from a teacher's point of view they are telling kids things that they can happily dismiss when they are good and ready, all of the time.
Teachers have to teach children to spell phonetically, and then introduce proper spelling later in their education. Effectively they lie. They show them the wrong way to spell words. It's crap, but apparently the kids adapt as they get older.
They aren't being told to dismiss science or reject medicine (please don't bring up Jehova Witnesses) or ignore history.
Ok, look my wife teaches in a catholic primary school. It's all I can offer. The school is small (120 kids) and the children are happy, well educated and the older ones are encouraged to look after the younger ones. They do have some religious teachings, and they have religious assemblies. But they do science and talk about evolution. They celebrate Christmas but enjoy a bit of Hallowe'en fun as well. All very contradictory I know, but they do try and embrace everything to give the kids a proper look at the world.
My kids went to that school, and have grown up well adjusted and happy. And none of them (three kids) now believe in God. They made their choice.
These Catholic kids though aren't well equipped for the move to 'big' school because when they get there they are mixing with some very different kids. And the bullies appear, and the homophobes appear, and the racists appear. And the kids from our my wife's school who are white, black, gay, straight, British, Polish, able bodied, disabled, are none of those things. Without exception. Because they have been taught tolerance and how to mix with other races and religions.
That's all I have. If it isn't enough then that's ok. I'm not religious, I don't believe in God, but I do believe in that little school and how it educates its children.
"Let us pray"
There you go. Those three words run over any science like a manic steamroller on cocaine.
Sorry, I don't understand your point?
There is zero scientific evidence in the whole of human existance that praying works. Nothing, not a micron of evidence. And yet, in the UK, today, thousands of kids went to school and were told to pray by respected figures of authorty. Not some madman in the gutter supping from a can of Stella. But a headmaster/mistress or head of year. Someone that kids are meant to look up to and respect.
We dont teach astrology in schools, or tarot cards, or tea leaf reading (becasue they have zero scientific value) but praying is openly accepted.
This act shows zero respect for science. It is the exact opposite of what we should be teaching kids.
It may not make sense to you that a primary school teaches religion and science, but they do. That's it. I'm not lying, or trying to explain if it makes sense or not. Just what I know.
Just trying to explain that in our one small school religion isn't drilled into them at the expense of all else, and the kids are not brought up to be racists and homophobes.
If you don't believe me then I can live with that.
Fair enough and I can see your observations are about a single school but its not about what makes sense to me.
Its about what makes sense.
Those people are pretty spot on.
Thanks. It was written fast during a short break at work. It just irritates me when someone says RE is in essence harmless. Brainwashing never is, neither are the motivations behind it.
And I know for a fact that some RE teachers are more than happy to mislead pupils into dismissing evolution. My wife was a TA and saw one doing exactly that. I was fuming when I learned.
On a side the new 10 pounds bill have Jane Austen instead of Charles Darwin. Nothing against the grandmother of chick lit but Darwin contributed far more to British civilization than her.
I tried to make a few points in answer to the suggestion that religious teachings are harmful to kids, but I guess it's difficult to argue with the point you guys keep coming back to. It's hard, because I basically agree with you about religion, God and all that goes with it.
I'm only defending my wife's position as a Catholic school teacher and the fact that those kids get better grounding and guidance in life than alot of non-faith school kids. And they are still left to make their own minds up when the time comes.
None I know of carried on going to church as adults, but every one of them remembers that school with fondness.
I just feel that the more I answer the more I feel my point is missed, and I'm backed into a corner about matters that I can't answer ie Catholic school's standing on the Church's views on homosexuality. I know my wife's view but not the school system's as a whole.
Anyway, much respect to you guys. The topic is interesting and important. BUT, I need to drop out. I will only end up shooting myself clean through the foot. ;)
PS I agree about Jane Austin, but they keep swapping the people on these notes to offer a cross section of important people. Just waiting for Lenny Henry to appear.
...in someone s head.
So it only wounded people. Praise be the Lord!
No but more seriously if the Islamist hypothesis turns out to be true it means that it was an act of devotion. And in any case if there is a God he does far less than the emergency services to put an end to suffering.
Dont forget, its the religion of peace everyone....
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/16/pakistan-man-sentenced-to-death-for-ridiculing-prophet-muhammad-on-whatsapp
Open to new ideas and tolerance with no history of Brutality or cruelty. ;-)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/vatican-recall-priest-child-sexual-abuse-images-us-state-department-a7949871.html
A priest suspected of having child abuse images, has been quickly brought back to the
Vatican. Out of reach of authorities. ... So They might have a new Pope who says all the
Right things but basically it's business as usual for the pedophile organisation. Still
Protecting abusers and castigating the victims.
Well the pope's still Catholic.