Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Remote controlled sharks???? When and where?
  • In the Bahamas. "Remote" probably wasn't the most apt description admittedly as the devices controlling them were attached to their fins. Something electronic that provoked them to pursue the homer Fatima put on Bond.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Ah right. Sorry yes. I get it now....the homing devices or whatever they are. Great scene. 'You did say you'd catch me later.'
  • That was a good scene. NSNA did the action pretty well, and without all the gag-beats that plagued many a fine action sequence throughout the Moore era.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I did point out what the NSNA soundtrack was about which is why I overlook it without having too much trouble of a time coping with its non-Bondian sound.

    OP, of course, had one of the best Bond girls. Maud Adams was sensational as Octopussy and definitely my kind of a woman. Powerful, mature, beautiful, not afraid to overpower men using her sexuality against them as are her girls. Kind of a replica of Pussy Galore, which is why I love them both.

    But, OP had a very forgettable villain, only slightly more memorable than Kristatos, who pretty much is a bland screen presence even though I like him.

    NSNA on the other hand, other than the weaker Domino (seriously, compared to TB's Domino, I've no affections for Kim Basinger's version), had the better characters, a crazy femme fatale (Xenia Onatopp's prototype), and Sean Connery being his Bond again (as opposed to the bored persona he had in DAF).

    Need I go on?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    OP is far more camp but boasts a seriously solid villain roster imho. NSNA is indeed more Flemingesque but also more mellow paced.

    I feel OP's fast paced direction has dated better, but NSNA has novelty value. The film would have been far more memorable if it wasn't seen by many as an inferior remake of TB.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I've resurrected a OP v NSNA thread peeps so you can comment in there,so this isnt de-railed.

    Its on the forum right now,for the next comment.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I seem to recall Legrand's score was quite good during that sequence.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Seeing an old Roger, old Lois and Tibbet with wrinkles you could smuggle drugs underneath at the horse show is just an embarrassing moment for me to watch. It's probably the greatest visual example of that part of the franchise's history where so much emphasis seemed to be on stagnating and not growing.

    I'd make a bet you wouldn't say that about Q in TWINE.

    For me, all of these actors add to the nostalgia of the films, so even though they are objectively too old for their respective roles, I enjoy seeing them. It's fascinating going back to the first few films and then watching AVTAK just to see how much time changed them.

    @BondAficionado, I wouldn't say it about Q, no. He always had that grandfatherly image about him and already seemed like that kind of character before the 70s were up and running, so I never take issue with his aging. He's just the old man tinkering away in his workshop. He's not like Bond who has to constantly go out into the field and do physical trials to survive, which doesn't work with a very old looking actor. Q never had this issue for obvious reasons. Desmond also never lost a step at any point, and he is always the light in some very shaky films, so I'm happy he was there to rescue things.

    The original Bond team will always be respected, but sometimes you just have to let people go. The fact that Lois wanted to be the new M after her turn as Moneypenny proves this. We all love her, but come on, now. At times, you can go too far.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,816
    Is it possible to enjoy DAD more than TND or TWINE?

    I'm starting to feel that way lately. I like the atmosphere and the sets more. The whole thing, even though ridiculously silly sometimes, seems to be more lively.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Is it possible to enjoy DAD more than TND or TWINE?

    I'm starting to feel that way lately. I like the atmosphere and the sets more. The whole thing, even though ridiculously silly sometimes, seems to be more lively.
    I know the feeling, mate. You're not alone.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,884
    Seeing an old Roger, old Lois and Tibbet with wrinkles you could smuggle drugs underneath at the horse show is just an embarrassing moment for me to watch. It's probably the greatest visual example of that part of the franchise's history where so much emphasis seemed to be on stagnating and not growing.

    I'd make a bet you wouldn't say that about Q in TWINE.

    For me, all of these actors add to the nostalgia of the films, so even though they are objectively too old for their respective roles, I enjoy seeing them. It's fascinating going back to the first few films and then watching AVTAK just to see how much time changed them.

    @BondAficionado, I wouldn't say it about Q, no. He always had that grandfatherly image about him and already seemed like that kind of character before the 70s were up and running, so I never take issue with his aging. He's just the old man tinkering away in his workshop. He's not like Bond who has to constantly go out into the field and do physical trials to survive, which doesn't work with a very old looking actor. Q never had this issue for obvious reasons. Desmond also never lost a step at any point, and he is always the light in some very shaky films, so I'm happy he was there to rescue things.

    The original Bond team will always be respected, but sometimes you just have to let people go. The fact that Lois wanted to be the new M after her turn as Moneypenny proves this. We all love her, but come on, now. At times, you can go too far.

    He wasn't the only one who was practically desk bound. For me, MP and M also seemed just as old/static as Q was. I always thought of them as one entity because we usually see them together at M's office or in quick succession. So if Q is considered 'grandfatherly' then MP is just as much 'grandmotherly' if you get what I mean.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Seeing an old Roger, old Lois and Tibbet with wrinkles you could smuggle drugs underneath at the horse show is just an embarrassing moment for me to watch. It's probably the greatest visual example of that part of the franchise's history where so much emphasis seemed to be on stagnating and not growing.

    I'd make a bet you wouldn't say that about Q in TWINE.

    For me, all of these actors add to the nostalgia of the films, so even though they are objectively too old for their respective roles, I enjoy seeing them. It's fascinating going back to the first few films and then watching AVTAK just to see how much time changed them.

    @BondAficionado, I wouldn't say it about Q, no. He always had that grandfatherly image about him and already seemed like that kind of character before the 70s were up and running, so I never take issue with his aging. He's just the old man tinkering away in his workshop. He's not like Bond who has to constantly go out into the field and do physical trials to survive, which doesn't work with a very old looking actor. Q never had this issue for obvious reasons. Desmond also never lost a step at any point, and he is always the light in some very shaky films, so I'm happy he was there to rescue things.

    The original Bond team will always be respected, but sometimes you just have to let people go. The fact that Lois wanted to be the new M after her turn as Moneypenny proves this. We all love her, but come on, now. At times, you can go too far.

    He wasn't the only one who was practically desk bound. For me, MP and M also seemed just as old/static as Q was. I always thought of them as one entity because we usually see them together at M's office or in quick succession. So if Q is considered 'grandfatherly' then MP is just as much 'grandmotherly' if you get what I mean.
    I have to admit that they all look ancient in that scene at Ascot. It's ok for the rest of the team because they were generally desk bound (at the time) but Moore and Macnee look well past it for field operatives.

    They did something similar in OP by pairing him with Douglas Wilmer for the auction scene (also a refined setting for the wealthy), but it worked in that film.

    I think their ages seemed more accentuated because of the setting, the outfits and because Walken & Jones were much younger, in contrast to Jourdan (who was actually older than Moore) in OP.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Ah, but sometimes the old ways are the best. That scene never really bothered me, to be honest, because all of those actors had such great chemistry with each other.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,696
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Is it possible to enjoy DAD more than TND or TWINE?

    I'm starting to feel that way lately. I like the atmosphere and the sets more. The whole thing, even though ridiculously silly sometimes, seems to be more lively.

    I'd say it's the best Brosnan movie. It certainly doesn't get boring, and it has a more consistent tone than any of the others. They also knock out all the melodrama at once, early on, so we're not forced to watch another horror show like the Goldeneye beach scene or nearly anything that happens in TWINE.

  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,884
    Goldeneye is worth 50 DADs.
  • Posts: 14,881
    Goldeneye is worth 50 DADs.

    So GE is not high on your list then?

    Controversial opinion: while SF is the better movie I prefer SP.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    The only two reasons I like Spectre and hypocritically tend to defend it are because of Craig's characterization as Bond (close to the old laid-back super-spy with humour) and the attempt to return to the old Bond formula. That's all.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,884
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Goldeneye is worth 50 DADs.

    So GE is not high on your list then?

    Controversial opinion: while SF is the better movie I prefer SP.

    Very funny, @Ludovico. :)

    P.S. I have GE around 5th-7th place normally.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,773
    controversial opinion: I am sick of the Daniel Craig bashing, especially since his tenure, so far, has been the most interesting since early Connery (the new era took chances and, for better or worse, usually came out on top; however, from what I'm reading, most of us here can make "wicked, awesome" multi million dollar productions to blow out the last three Bond films).

    Just sayin'...
  • Posts: 11,189
    peter wrote: »
    controversial opinion: I am sick of the Daniel Craig bashing, especially since his tenure, so far, has been the most interesting since early Connery (the new era took chances and, for better or worse, usually came out on top; however, from what I'm reading, most of us here can make "wicked, awesome" multi million dollar productions to blow out the last three Bond films).

    Just sayin'...

    My only real issue with Craig currently is that in SP his character seemed to have morphed into a hybrid of Connery/Moore and Brosnan.

    Otherwise I think he's largely been great and I admit it took me a while to really appreciate him.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,773
    @bain123, I agree with you on his last film-- wasn't quite as intense or "present" (although I still enjoyed watching him tinker with this); however, I think the film production was troubled from start to finish. On top of the woes going in, and then the race to get it out on a certain date, they had to deal with their leading man blowing out his knee; fly him out for a quick-fix op back in NY, and then get back to filming, all within two weeks.
    Anyone with a knee injury knows that rehab is anywhere from six to twelve weeks, and then it's more physio/strength training time... It's a painful process.
    Apart from mendes forcing his lead actor to fit into a mold, you also had that actor probably chewing on tylenol threes and being in not the best of spirits.
    DC is a wonderful actor with animal magnetism. The next director shouldn't straight-jacket this, but unleash it.
    In the end, if SP was DC's last, I hope people look at the body of work and say, although SP may have been his weakest, as a whole, though, he delivered an interesting portrayal of 007.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,044
    peter wrote: »
    @bain123, I agree with you on his last film-- wasn't quite as intense or "present" (although I still enjoyed watching him tinker with this); however, I think the film production was troubled from start to finish. On top of the woes going in, and then the race to get it out on a certain date, they had to deal with their leading man blowing out his knee; fly him out for a quick-fix op back in NY, and then get back to filming, all within two weeks.
    Anyone with a knee injury knows that rehab is anywhere from six to twelve weeks, and then it's more physio/strength training time... It's a painful process.
    Apart from mendes forcing his lead actor to fit into a mold, you also had that actor probably chewing on tylenol threes and being in not the best of spirits.
    DC is a wonderful actor with animal magnetism. The next director shouldn't straight-jacket this, but unleash it.
    In the end, if SP was DC's last, I hope people look at the body of work and say, although SP may have been his weakest, as a whole, though, he delivered an interesting portrayal of 007.
    Somehow Craig is beeing scrutinised far more intensely then Brosnan, even though the critical acclaim is much higher as well. Perhaps it's because the internet is so widely accessible that everyone has an opportunity to be negative about something. It worries me a little that negativety can get you the second most powerful job in the world (we all know China's president actually wields more power).

    What I've noted over the years though is that more money to a movie budget doesn't mean higher quality, especially not in the long run. There's an optimum somewhere, and with SF's hughe success, they went and spent too much on SP. I hope Craig returns for one more film, with the same budget as CR, and different writers... ah.... b*gger.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,773
    @CommanderRoss, I too hope he's coming back for one more. They need a director who will let Craig Bond be Craig Bond, and a story that suits his physical portrayal-- rugged, ruthless; a man who bleeds and gulps down scotch to calm his nerves, arrogant, and bull-headed... even if he is older... and not to re-tread what was done in SF, but how does this alpha male react to getting older, a little slower? How does the Lion-king confront his own ageing? His heart beats like it always has, his moral compass strongly fixed and pointed, but his tools to accomplish the mission aren't quite what they're used to...
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,044
    yep, sounds good to me!
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 676
    Craig gives a fascinating performance in SP. Every one of his line readings and movements are thoughtful and interesting. I think people get the sense that it's a "lazy" or "bored" performance from how subdued and minimalist an actor he is. I do prefer his hungry, aggressive energy in CR and QoS and his world-weary cynicism in SF. But he is still firing on all cylinders in SP.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Controversial opinion here.

    One thing I noticed in my SP viewing yesterday is that Ralph Fiennes was bloody awful. Not only did he muck up every scene with Craig (and even the intro with Madeline - what the heck was that?) but he also botched the scenes with the unmemorable and oily 'C' (and yes, this chap's name doesn't stand for careless to me, but rather the more obvious c***). His delivery of the 'not to kill' speech is cringeworthy in the extreme.

    Craig had more enthusiasm when looking at a monitor of Dench spouting something about Sciarra than he had in any scene with Fiennes.

    Darn shame, because he was rather good in SF.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 676
    He was great in Skyfall. He was... not great in Spectre.

    Still, I will always be glad he was around to veto the "M's a traitor" idea.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited May 2017 Posts: 8,773
    yes, one of the big disappointments. He's just... stiff and uncomfortable...

    Edit: sorry @bondjames, this may not be such a controversial opinion after all.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Yes, @peter, perhaps not so controversial.

    I just realized yesterday how absolutely cringeworthy nearly every scene he's in is, including the finale at C's HQ. It's as if he doesn't want to be there.
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