Sherlock (2010) BBC Series Discussion Thread

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  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited January 2017 Posts: 4,043
    The UK make the best dramas???

    If that is the case on the strength of this load of bollocks, hopefully David Lynch will come back in May and show Moffatt and Gattis how it's done.

    I loved the first 2 seasons of Sherlock but ever since he came back from the dead it's been on rapid decline.

    Seriously Skyfall, Shutter Island and then Silence of The Lambs plus it all comes down to someone who didn't get enough attention and feels left out, remind you of anything ? It was nearly as disappointing as that as well! How about some Sherlock Holmes next time please!

    The only postive note I can hopefully take from this is all this psychological family bollocks is out the way and when it returns (whenever that is) we can get on with cases.

    Strangely this comment links to another entertainment series I can't of the life of me think what that might be!

    I'd much rather watch Endeavour and last weeks opener was so much better than the Lying Detective or the Jimmy Saville episode!
  • Posts: 2,107
    This is the end my, only friend, the end.

    Now that were done with Sherlock, what's next? No loose ends, no cliffhangers and with Cumbernatch busy in hollywood, I don't have to wait a few years for the next set of episodes. Maybe they'll do a tv special somewhere down the line.

    I'm all in for normal Sherlock case when that happens, none of these personal stories everyone is making these days. I agree on that.
  • Posts: 1,165
    Jesus that was bloody awful!

    I'm so frustrated over how ridiculously bad that episode was and how it retcons so much of the series for what was a haphazard, lazy payoff. Such a letdown after last weeks wonderful episode.
  • Posts: 6,432
    X_X need to stay away from this thread till tomorrow, though sounds like the finale ain't good :-S
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 1,469
    I felt disappointed after watching The Final Problem. Fun to see Art Malik in it though, and I enjoyed the fleeting reference to the story The Musgrave Ritual. I Liked The Lying Detective much better though I don't think it was perfect. For my money the series (if it continues)--and writing (storylines)--really need to get back to basics, though that's fine if some people like it as is. If we do get another season, I think they should forget about this hour-and-a-half-per-episode nonsense and shorten all episodes from now on to an hour at the most--eliminate all filler--make it compact, a taut mystery without extraneous dialogue or tangents.

    Why couldn't they just recycle more of Doyle's stories, stick closer to them and update them a bit for modern times? Probably so few people are actually up on the Doyle stories, and there are so many of them--and even those of us who for instance like the Jeremy Brett series probably wouldn't mind seeing all those episodes updated. But of course Moffat and Gatiss want to make it their own and have succeeded in ways.
  • And it was all going so well. Where to even start. I'll be positive at first. The actors were phemonenal as always, particuarly Mark Gattiss and the woman playing Euros. There were some genuinely great, clever moments and David Arnold was on top form as per. But on the whole, what a mess.
    That bit with the explosion. Thought that was just a naff bit of promo footage but no, it was actually part of the episode and it looked terrible. In fact I found myself thinking a few times that the episode was cheap/naff looking which is unusual for this show (I think it's the slow motion that did it).

    The whole sister sngle just doesn't work for me. Mainly because of Moriarty's involvement. As cool as it was to have him back in some form it made no sense at all that he'd do all this given be expected Sherlock to die at the end of his own elaborate plan in season 2.

    The twist felt so emotionally manipulative. Emotional drama doesn't work if we don't know the characters involved. So the whole killing the kid thing just felt cheap, especially since Sherlock seemed to get over it instantly (I know she's family but come on.

    The ancestral home stuff felt so contrived. Giving Sherlock this tragic origin story was just dumb imo. We don't need to know that he is the way he is because his childhood friend was killed by his evil sister at Skyfall because she wasn't getting enough attention. Also I know the show has always worn the Bond influences on its sleeve but the amount of inspiration from Skyfall and Spectre bordered on plagirism imo, except unlike those films the writers completely failed in the execution.

    I loved this show up until this last episode, but I think that Sherlock and his evil sister playing his own theme song on the violin while Watson's dead wife's second message from the grave plays over a cheesey fixing up the house montage, complete with naff freez frame shot of them running at the end, is probably the shark jumping moment for me. It seemed like this was possibly made as the ending, so I hope if the writers do have any more they have a long think about why this season fell apart.

    Such a shame too. The opener was very good, last weeks was brilliant, but this episode was awful imo. Without a doubt the worst eposode they've done so far, dragged the whole season down for me. I think the rarity of the episodes is partially responsible. Maybe the writers now feel like every episode has to be a big shocking event no matter how little it works.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 5,767
    I found the psychological angle surprisingly convincing, and IMO the way Sherlock the seires does the personal angles is way above all the rest. Nevertheless, they squeezed every last drop out of the idea of personal matters standing in the focus so much. I thought anyhow this idea is done to death by Hollywood, and the only reason I give them some slack is because they do it so amazingly well. But if they don´t put it to rest now, Sherlock will go the way of Bond, devolving from the greatest show on earth into cheap soap opera.

    Apart from that, absolutely amazing episode :-)! And the ending proposes that we very well could get decent crime cases with no personal angle from now on. Or cinematic films. I´m not sure I´d want the latter, because then they would probably lose all their independence.

    Oh, and I much appreciate that Mrs. Hudson holds up the British end by listening to a true British icon :-)!
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    I do like Mrs Hudson's character. She is so multi-layered and so obviously 'dark' yet Sherlock barely notices.

    @thelivingroyale more or less said it all for me. Disappointing episode despite some incredible performances.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Well at least I've Series 1 and 2 to watch and watch again on blu-ray, these last two series have been lacking for me, @thelivingroyale is spot on.
    Shame, but if it gets a new series they had better buck up their ideas and get back to Conan Doyle, the old doctor must be spinning like a top!
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,048
    Based on what I can see on Twitter and other social media, people seem to have loved it for Andrew Scott doing air guitar and nothing else, which pretty much sums up my problems with the whole episode.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,551
    Sounding more and more like this season is heavily comparable to last season, which is making me not watch it (on top of all the reviews criticizing some terrible sounding ideas). Shame, I miss the format of the show in its first two seasons, when we got three episodes that handled a tiny narrative arc while subsequently giving us three thrilling, unique cases to solve.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Sounding more and more like this season is heavily comparable to last season, which is making me not watch it (on top of all the reviews criticizing some terrible sounding ideas). Shame, I miss the format of the show in its first two seasons, when we got three episodes that handled a tiny narrative arc while subsequently giving us three thrilling, unique cases to solve.

    Well when you've got Mrs Hudson driving like James Bond in Aston Martin and vacuuming to heavy metal you know that the wheels have come off the wagon!
  • I think that, if there is a fifth season, the selling point will be a back to basics approach. Moffat is good at responding to criticism (Doctor Who was too complicated so he did a season of standalone "blockbusters", people said that it'd gotten too whimsical and danger free so he went darker for series 8, etc). Not sure how successful it'll be, but I'm certain they'll try.
    boldfinger wrote: »
    they do it so amazingly well. But if they don´t put it to rest now, Sherlock will go the way of Bond, devolving from the greatest show on earth into cheap soap opera.

    See to me it's the other way round. The last episode of Sherlock felt like a contrived cheap soap opera while Bond has been doing the character stuff with more subtlety and restraint. And while Skyfall and Spectre were hardly the most original films in the world themselves, Sherlock certainly took a lot of them last night (but didn't pull any of it off nearly as well) imo. The gloomy family ancestral home burning down, the scorned sibling forcing him to make difficult decisions and confront his past in a twisted elaborate maze, etc.

    I've loved Spectre from day one but watching the last episode of Sherlock I suddenly understood how those who hate it felt. Basically, the film that their detractors see Skyfall and Spectre as? I saw it last night.
  • Posts: 1,165
    The "Miss Me?" cliffhanger of season 3 was so cheap and pointless in hindsight. They really just pulled that out of their arse at the last minute back in 2014 to keep the hype around the show going.

    Trying to retcon that cliffhanger into the narrative of season 4 was woefully bad writing and cheapens so much of the shows integrity.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    I have enjoyed this Sherlock since the very first one. I enjoyed every season, even the last one that I know several people had issues with. But I am not a happy BBC Sherlock fan today.

    To say I am unhappy with it barely scrapes the surface. I love this series and I'm more than a little annoyed. I really enjoyed the first and second of this new round. A lot. I though they were well written shows, well acted, good direction, pacing, everything. But I was strongly let down with the 3rd show. And that set in early, the whole feeling was "off". I think they totally blew it. I didn't enjoy the opener, even. And it went downhill from there for me. I was surprised at the completely different feeling I had from this one.

    At the end of the 2nd, we were set up for something interesting. It could have been intriguing, somewhat puzzling, some evil character(s), and with some camaraderie with Sherlock and John along the way. I didn't mind introducing the sister. But where the story went, how it was presented ... no. It turned into such a mishmash of unsatisfying bits ... it was almost like it was an entirely different show. It also felt dragged out at times, yet at times the pacing felt off/rushed. Hard to explain. It felt different - not in a good way. It's like Moffat and Gattis went on a bender and totally lost their way when they wrote this. They got nearly everything wrong, for me. I dislike this episode so much; it is the least enjoyable for me of the entire series, since first introduced. It was almost a parody of itself at the end. I wasn't happy with any of it, but the wrapped up with a bow ending was awful and felt forced. I wanted to throw something at my computer screen (I don't watch it on tv). It feels like they took characters I love so much and made them perform in something basically stupid and going against their natural grain, with an atmosphere and pacing I found annoying rather than satisfying.

    I agree with @thelivingroyale. And to say I'm disappointed in this final episode is a real understatement.

    I do hope the show returns! I don't want this splendid show to end on that very disappointing episode.
  • Posts: 17,341
    I must be weird. Loved the whole season!
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    The Cold East Wind is blowing hard here I'm saddened to see that many of you did not enjoy this series .
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited January 2017 Posts: 12,459
    I loved the first two a lot. I did not mind the sister being introduced. But I found this last one to be nothing much I could enjoy. No way around it for me. I loved "the east wind blowing" line ... and I just wish it had all been done differently. Sigh ... I'll shut up about it now. I'm still a big fan of the whole show, though.

    Oh and assuming there IS another round coming up in a year or so (I do hope so!) at least it seems they will be more firmly rooted in solving puzzling crimes without the darkest personal stories woven into it. The ending of this show overegged that point. As I'm happy with every show done except this last one, I'm still very optimistic for the show overall.
  • Posts: 12,506
    Great series finale, hoping for more in the future!!!!!!
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 344
    I'm afraid you can add me to the list of those disappointed with the finale. The tone and pacing jarred for me. Mark Gatiss's explanation that they were always attempting to provide a backstory for Holmes and Watson, to explain how they became the later characters we all know, is interesting. I just hope we get a few stories with those characters.

    I did like the little nod to Holmes's movie past at the end though!
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,048
    Add me to that list, too. Just like Bond, if you attempt to delve too deep into Sherlock Holmes you can often end up taking the joy away from the quirks and qualities that make him so interesting to watch in the first place.

    The show, in its prime, brought a smile a minute. Last night, the only smile I made during the whole 90 minutes was during Moriarty's cartoonish entrance. It lost its sense of fun.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 6,432
    Only ten minutes into The Final Problem and the same reason Sherlock is failing is the same reason Doctor Who is so frustrating. Steven Moffat!!!
  • Agnes_007Agnes_007 Manchester, UK
    Posts: 50
    I just got to watch the finale on a recording, I enjoyed it!! Can't help but feel that we'll be waiting a long time for another series yet again though!
  • Posts: 6,432
    If it was not Sherlock Holmes it would be ok for me, though I am a Holmes purist and this feels off and lost the grounded feel of Holmes.
  • Agnes_007Agnes_007 Manchester, UK
    Posts: 50
    @fire_and_ice It's an interesting discussion really. My Dad loves the Jack Reacher books, but he hates the films, he says the films are okay, but he's a purist, so they'll never be like Jack Reacher to him. I thought the early Sherlock episodes were an interesting modern take, but they have started getting a bit weirder as they've gone on. :-?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    I love the Reacher books, read them all, eagerly await the next. I would never say the films are okay with Cruise in them. Nope.

    I am way more flexible with Holmes portrayals.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 6,432
    Agnes_007 wrote: »
    @fire_and_ice It's an interesting discussion really. My Dad loves the Jack Reacher books, but he hates the films, he says the films are okay, but he's a purist, so they'll never be like Jack Reacher to him. I thought the early Sherlock episodes were an interesting modern take, but they have started getting a bit weirder as they've gone on. :-?

    I like Reacher not read the books a friend has read them and she envisages Jack as more like Eastwood type character, only seen the first film though enjoyed it. I accepted Sherlock for what it is a few years ago, though it's become fantastical though it's more a reflection of other shows made today. I can separate myself from my purist side and try to appreciate it on its own merit. I'll try to be open minded as I watch it :)

  • Agnes_007Agnes_007 Manchester, UK
    Posts: 50
    @fire_and_ice My Dad's biggest problem seems to be that Reacher is over 6ft in the books...and they got Tom Cruise to play him in the films!! :))
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Did anyone notice a certain Bond theme ?
    When Sherlock smashes up the coffin .
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 6,432
    Agnes_007 wrote: »
    @fire_and_ice My Dad's biggest problem seems to be that Reacher is over 6ft in the books...and they got Tom Cruise to play him in the films!! :))

    That's what my friend said :)) think he is supposed to be 6ft 5. Is that correct @4EverBonded?
    Mrcoggins wrote: »
    Did anyone notice a certain Bond theme ?
    When Sherlock smashes up the coffin .
    Will read that spoiler when finished watching :)

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