No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,586
    We really need some news.
  • Completely agree with the last two posts on the Blofeld reveal. That's the problem when the writers are just appealing to the lowest common denominator i.e. joe public's recognition of the Blofeld name; rather than just trying to write a good story which makes sense.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 754
    It's not easy to make a great movie, I get that. But EON aren't on top of the game.

    They have paid GREAT money for writers. Their creative teams are not under paid. They're just not good and NOT well guided by either EON or the directors EON hired.

    Blofeld could've have been a great villain if they went to the source material and tried to build out organically... A man who built his empire on clandestine information; created a network of interesting nefarious villains used for their talents; and who prizes anonymity, willing to remake his identity, making him a chameleon. Instead they went with the tropes of the 60s movies and hired a fantastic actor thinking he would be phenomenal just based on who he is instead of a good vision, direction and script. Lame. Lazy. Expensive. Successful (financially).

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    They have paid GREAT money for writers. Their creative teams are not under paid. They're just not good and NOT well guided by either EON or the directors EON hired.
    This is the key point, in my view.

    I wouldn't mind slightly tighter control next time out.

    The problem we face is that only Campbell has shown that he can bring it all together nicely, and he's not getting any younger.

    So they will have to hire a director who really understands Bond next time (it will help if he's a fan as well), and who can give us a fresh take while respecting the legacy. Not an easy thing to do. I'm rooting for Villeneuve or Nolan (I realize some will lose it on account of this suggestion).
  • Posts: 16
    That Bond 25 news seems that it doesn't come yet, what not watch some of the documentaries on instead (e.g. Borderline)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »

    I wouldn't mind slightly tighter control next time out.

    Some slightly tighter control? Any at all would be an improvement on SP's script.
    bondjames wrote: »

    So they will have to hire a director who really understands Bond next time (it will help if he's a fan as well), and who can give us a fresh take while respecting the legacy.

    I can see where you're coming from here but when you say 'It will help if he's a fan' what you actually mean is 'It will help is he's a fan who thinks along the same lines as I do'.

    There are people on this very forum who would describe themselves as 'Bond fans' yet think DAD is better than TLD.

    Mendes has described himself as a 'fan' and P&W keep getting asked back because of their supposed knowledge of Fleming (it cant be for their writing skills surely?) so on the face of it the last two films have had 'fans' at the heart of them yet what has that brought us? Delving into Bond's childhood, Blofeld being his stepbrother and the DB5 flogged to death.

    When you hire fans what you actually get I'm afraid is fan fiction.

    You might do better actually hiring a journeyman, bread and butter director. A Glen, a Campbell, even a Spottiswoode who will deliver on time and on budget what EON ask him to.

    The trouble with that approach is the biggest imponderable question of all - do EON actually know what they want at the present time?

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »

    I wouldn't mind slightly tighter control next time out.

    Some slightly tighter control? Any at all would be an improvement on SP's script.
    bondjames wrote: »

    So they will have to hire a director who really understands Bond next time (it will help if he's a fan as well), and who can give us a fresh take while respecting the legacy.

    I can see where you're coming from here but when you say 'It will help if he's a fan' what you actually mean is 'It will help is he's a fan who thinks along the same lines as I do'.

    There are people on this very forum who would describe themselves as 'Bond fans' yet think DAD is better than TLD.

    Mendes has described himself as a 'fan' and P&W keep getting asked back because of their supposed knowledge of Fleming (it cant be for their writing skills surely?) so on the face of it the last two films have had 'fans' at the heart of them yet what has that brought us? Delving into Bond's childhood, Blofeld being his stepbrother and the DB5 flogged to death.

    When you hire fans what you actually get I'm afraid is fan fiction.

    You might do better actually hiring a journeyman, bread and butter director. A Glen, a Campbell, even a Spottiswoode who will deliver on time and on budget what EON ask him to.

    The trouble with that approach is the biggest imponderable question of all - do EON actually know what they want at the present time?
    You raise fair points, and I was actually thinking about that when I wrote my last post.

    A fan director is not necessarily a good thing, as you correctly posit, because they bring their own fan perspective, which may indeed differ from yours and mine.

    I still contend that only Campbell has got it right (twice) in the last 25 or so years, and I don't even know if he is a fan of Bond to be honest.

    A lot of the blame must be laid at EON's door for the SP f'up. The script leaks (which I haven't read mind you - I just followed the thread here from time to time) suggest that they only got wind of how far out to lunch some of the concepts were very late in the game, and that probably wouldn't have happened if they were on the ball and exercised tighter conceptual & operational control from the get-go.
  • Posts: 787

    You might do better actually hiring a journeyman, bread and butter director. A Glen, a Campbell, even a Spottiswoode who will deliver on time and on budget what EON ask him to.

    The trouble with that approach is the biggest imponderable question of all - do EON actually know what they want at the present time?

    The other problem here is that Bond films are now increasingly becoming 'prestige pieces.' The last two in particular had people sitting around talking about the choice of cinematographer, for god's sake, and casts full of esteemed veterans instead of generic character actors.

    After all that - and the buzz of critical acclaim and Oscar nods - it might be tough to go back to the workaday/journeyman model. Of course, EON might also get tired of paying a quarter billion a pop to make the damn things.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 870
    bondjames wrote: »
    This is the key point, in my view.

    I wouldn't mind slightly tighter control next time out.

    The problem we face is that only Campbell has shown that he can bring it all together nicely, and he's not getting any younger.

    So they will have to hire a director who really understands Bond next time (it will help if he's a fan as well), and who can give us a fresh take while respecting the legacy. Not an easy thing to do. I'm rooting for Villeneuve or Nolan (I realize some will lose it on account of this suggestion).

    It's a real shame they weren't able to convince Campbell to direct at least one more film.

    I disagree with you about Nolan. Mendes' take was very Nolanesque, I think we need something different now.

    'Slightly tighter control' and Nolan don't go hand in hand, I'm afraid.
    [You might do better actually hiring a journeyman, bread and butter director. A Glen, a Campbell, even a Spottiswoode who will deliver on time and on budget what EON ask him to.

    Agreed. I am not sure the 'auteur approach' is completely appropriate for Bond. It worked with SF, but much less with SP, IMO.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It's true that Nolan wouldn't do well on reins. He likely wouldn't even take the job to begin with if he thought his vision for the movie wasn't going to be followed, or if production notes were going to alter it from his plans.
  • I'd love it if they got Nolan. I think he's without a doubt the best modern "blockbuster" director (watched Interstellar for the first time the other night actually, thought it was a bit confusing but still really good, the ending was heartbreaking). The Spielberg of his time doesn't seem an unfair comparison imo. They've borrowed enough from him, it'd be a real coup to get the real deal. I think he'd be perfect for introducing the next Bond actor. A lot of people criticise his action chops but I disagree. He has a great eye for big grand setpieces using practical effects (the chase scene in The Dark Knight, the plane hijacking in Dark Knight Rises, the spinning hallway in Inception, and I'm sure Dunkirk will continue this, he's got IMAX cameras mounted onto real spitfires*) and while the fight coreography in his films isn't amazing, it was, by Hollywood standards, decent enough imo. I particuarly enjoyed the first fight in The Dark Knight Rises. It felt very intense and visceral, I liked the brawler/boxing fighting style they went with, fit the grounded nature of those films, and the atmosphere of the fight was great. Watching it in the cinema I was reminded of how I felt as a kid when Bond squares off against Oddjob in Fortknox actually. The silence adding to the atmosphere of danger and tension as you wait for the hero to finally take on the very imposing villain. Brilliantly done. He's also a fan, which doesn't guarantee a good film, but at least he'd embrace the fact he's making a Bond film (unlike Forster).

    *sidenote, wouldn't Bond in a spitfire be a cool setpiece? Two British icons. Something like the villain having one among other expensive old vehicles and Bond using it to escape.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    *sidenote, wouldn't Bond in a spitfire be a cool setpiece? Two British icons. Something like the villain having one among other expensive old vehicles and Bond using it to escape.
    I've always wanted to see Bond in a Harrier jumpjet actually. Ever since True Lies came out. The closest we got to it was Koskov's Austrian escape in TLD.

    I agree with you on Nolan's action sequences. I think he gets a bum rap for them. The tanker flip in TDK is incredible, as is the Hong Kong plane hook escape. I love the plane sequence at the start of TDKR (very Glen) and the Bane fight as well. He is indeed the real deal, and it would be interesting to see him get to grips with something that he has often emulated in his own films (including in Inception, which has a very Bond'esque opening).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I want to see Bond with spring heels.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,586
    I want to see Bond with spring heels.
    You should never be allowed near a Bond film.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    But if it s Brosnan?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I don't think people criticize Nolan's action set pieces as much as they do his shooting of some of them. His camera work doesn't frame aspects of the sequences well when it comes to stuff like fight scenes, where much of the image is cropped and lost, with some messy shaking in between.
  • Each to their own really, the only time I've thought his fight scenes were messy was Batman Begins, and there it seemed an artistic choice (to emphasise how fast he was and how he catches thugs off guard) rather than a lack of talent at directing action, and he sorted it in the sequels anyway.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I think he brings perspective to some of the action sequences, in terms of giving us a holistic feel of the environment where they are being filmed. Decent wide angle framing prior to the close up.

    That's something I found Glen didn't do so well in his Bond films (it was quite notable when I watched TLD yesterday).

    I can't recall much about the fight sequences themselves at the moment, but I did like the first Bane encounter where the Bat gets his back broken, but not the second one, which I found pedestrian.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The action is impeccable in Inception. In TDK, too.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited August 2016 Posts: 28,694
    The fights have moments where the choreography is sloppy, which can really take you out of the moment as well.

    I love Nolan, just looking objectively at stuff he could improve. At the very least, he always delivers clever action. Inception alone proves this in spades. And of course his emphasis on practical effects over anything gains him even more cred.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    Nolan's directing is fine with me, but I think his writing/dialogue is awful and of course, his top choice composer Hans Zimmer. I don't like him at all. After Newman's poor efforts I don't want anymore generic bland Bond music scores.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Murdock, what is it about his dialogue? I've heard some say "Real people don't talk like that," as a criticism, but as a fan of the noir genre, I love that approach.
  • Posts: 676
    The thing that discounts Nolan for me is how sexless all his films are. We've already suffered that under Mendes for the last two films.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, It just comes off as pompous to me. It just seemed like every few moments someone would go into a big speech about how great they are and just feels so unnatural. That's fine for Noir but that wouldn't suite Bond.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Milovy wrote: »
    The thing that discounts Nolan for me is how sexless all his films are. We've already suffered that under Mendes for the last two films.

    I don't know. Mendes creates sex without needing to show it, for me. Every time I stare at Berenice in Skyfall, no matter how brief she appears, she exudes sex and passion, which her performance only heightens. She's exactly how a femme fatale should be, almost animalistic in how she preys and entirely irresistible.

    As for SP, the start of that love scene with Bond and Lucia makes me feel weird for watching it every time because it feels so intimate and passionate, like I'm spying on a private moment between a real couple. It feels washed in sex to me.
  • Posts: 4,622
    I'd love it if they got Nolan. I think he's without a doubt the best modern "blockbuster" director (watched Interstellar for the first time the other night actually, thought it was a bit confusing but still really good, the ending was heartbreaking). The Spielberg of his time doesn't seem an unfair comparison imo. They've borrowed enough from him, it'd be a real coup to get the real deal. I think he'd be perfect for introducing the next Bond actor. A lot of people criticise his action chops but I disagree. He has a great eye for big grand setpieces using practical effects (the chase scene in The Dark Knight, the plane hijacking in Dark Knight Rises, the spinning hallway in Inception, and I'm sure Dunkirk will continue this, he's got IMAX cameras mounted onto real spitfires*) and while the fight coreography in his films isn't amazing, it was, by Hollywood standards, decent enough imo. I particuarly enjoyed the first fight in The Dark Knight Rises. It felt very intense and visceral, I liked the brawler/boxing fighting style they went with, fit the grounded nature of those films, and the atmosphere of the fight was great. Watching it in the cinema I was reminded of how I felt as a kid when Bond squares off against Oddjob in Fortknox actually. The silence adding to the atmosphere of danger and tension as you wait for the hero to finally take on the very imposing villain. Brilliantly done. He's also a fan, which doesn't guarantee a good film, but at least he'd embrace the fact he's making a Bond film (unlike Forster).

    *sidenote, wouldn't Bond in a spitfire be a cool setpiece? Two British icons. Something like the villain having one among other expensive old vehicles and Bond using it to escape.
    I'm sold! You've made the case for Nolan.
    I'm now very intrigued to see what he might do with Bond!
    I kind of think it will happen. Seems like the timing might be right. Maybe one more with Craig, and then usher in the new actor.

  • I'm actually a big fan of Mendes' direction poverty the last two films, he often elevates some shoddy writing and gave us some of the most artful sequences in Bond history. I think many here are overestimating his control over all aspects of the film.

    I also think some people here are being pessimistic about what Bond should be. We should be striving for greatness, not the pedestrian boredom of Glen and Spottiswoode. Those asking for greater studio control should be careful what they wish for, just look at the recent debacles around Fantastic 4 and Suicide Squad.

    It's a good thing that Bond is attracting proper talent these days, and our focus should be on finding a writing team with equal credentials to the folks behind the camera.
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 11,425
    We are currently in the same predicament as Arsenal.

    EON are delivering 4th every season which is reasonable but there are some fans who have aspirations to challenge for the title and CL.

    But if we get rid of Wenger there's every chance we might plummet down the table so are we better off sticking with what we've got?

    The 'In EON we trust' brigade of fans still hold sway at the moment but how many more SPs will it take before the mood changes to 'You don't knew what you're doing?'

    Not many I would say.

    I have my reservations about SP, and personally even more so about SF. But even though I dislike SF and find it a disappointing mess, it's still a superior fail to the Brosnan films, which are just garbage. Most of the criticisms I read about SP were already there in SF IMO.

    95-2002 was the period where I was wondering if EON should just hand over the reins. But I'd say EON have upped their game significantly over the last decade, but still have a lot of work to do.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    DoctorNo wrote: »

    They have paid GREAT money for writers. Their creative teams are not under paid. They're just not good and NOT well guided by either EON or the directors EON hired.

    I don't think anyone has claimed the creatives have been underpaid but when it comes to the Babs and Mike era partnership, yes, they've obviously spent money on writers, afterall they're not writing these things themselves but they're paying a big standard fee for big standard writers who are doing the brunt of the writing. If EoN want significantly better writing they're going to have to reach deeper into their pockets or alternatively take a chance on some new up and comers who are creative and hungry. Either way, EoN need to lose P&W and not look back. Time to ditch the off the rack George suits from Asda and make the time and effort to pay Saville Row a visit and get something bespoke.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117

    I also think some people here are being pessimistic about what Bond should be. We should be striving for greatness, not the pedestrian boredom of Glen

    Well just because John didnt do arty 5 minute tracking shots doesnt mean he made worse films than pretentious Mendes with his 'Dead are Alive' bullshit.
    Those asking for greater studio control should be careful what they wish for

    I dont think anyone has asked for this. They just wanted EON to sort their shit out.
    It's a good thing that Bond is attracting proper talent these days, and our focus should be on finding a writing team with equal credentials to the folks behind the camera.

    Absolutely. We have world class talent in every department except the most important one - the writing (and music).
    doubleoego wrote: »
    DoctorNo wrote: »

    They have paid GREAT money for writers. Their creative teams are not under paid. They're just not good and NOT well guided by either EON or the directors EON hired.

    I don't think anyone has claimed the creatives have been underpaid but when it comes to the Babs and Mike era partnership, yes, they've obviously spent money on writers, afterall they're not writing these things themselves but they're paying a big standard fee for big standard writers who are doing the brunt of the writing. If EoN want significantly better writing they're going to have to reach deeper into their pockets or alternatively take a chance on some new up and comers who are creative and hungry. Either way, EoN need to lose P&W and not look back. Time to ditch the off the rack George suits from Asda and make the time and effort to pay Saville Row a visit and get something bespoke.

    Surely Gatiss deserves a crack? He has shown himself to be a fan and he cant commit worse fanboy atrocities against the character than stepbrothergate? He's probably not cheap these days but I'm sure we could find the fee if we didnt waste so much money needlessly blowing stuff up.
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