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The Bond Movies & Actors I Can't Stand (Negativity Only Please)

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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Murdock wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I've listened to over 25 different versions of the James Bond theme one after another, Never got boring. It's one of these songs that can never get boring for how great it is.

    It's a great theme but to use it relentlessly through a whole film wouldn't work. It would get tedious. Which is why John Barry mixed it up with music based on the title songs and his own Bond compositions. He never just played the Bond theme over and over again. But then what did he know eh?

    I'm with you mate but sounds like we're fighting a losing battle.

    It seems people want the Bond theme like it is used in games to tell them every time something Bondian happens rather than weaved into an overall score like Barry used to do.

    It wouldn't have hurt in SPECTRE. I'll take the Bond theme over lazy rehashed music from the last film.

    That's a cheap shot.

    I'd rather have a chimpanzee banging a pan with a wooden spoon than SP's score!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,335
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I've listened to over 25 different versions of the James Bond theme one after another, Never got boring. It's one of these songs that can never get boring for how great it is.

    It's a great theme but to use it relentlessly through a whole film wouldn't work. It would get tedious. Which is why John Barry mixed it up with music based on the title songs and his own Bond compositions. He never just played the Bond theme over and over again. But then what did he know eh?

    I'm with you mate but sounds like we're fighting a losing battle.

    It seems people want the Bond theme like it is used in games to tell them every time something Bondian happens rather than weaved into an overall score like Barry used to do.

    It wouldn't have hurt in SPECTRE. I'll take the Bond theme over lazy rehashed music from the last film.

    That's a cheap shot.

    I'd rather have a chimpanzee banging a pan with a wooden spoon than SP's score!

    Yes you are right, It was a cheap shot, but I feel like a New Man after that. =))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Well they really were trying to beat us over the head with all the 'connectivity' between films. Perhaps Newman decided to play along in terms of the score too.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,335
    Well true but you could say the same thing about Quantum of Solace being a direct sequel to CR. Aside from Vesper's motif which is only repeated once I believe in that movie, the rest of the score is completely original.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I was kidding around. Definitely a lazy play on his part, but perhaps he read the script and wondered why he should bother being creative.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Can we even blame Newman for it? Surely it's the directors decision?

    It's fine for the M theme but the SF copy and paste in the PTS and the car chase are unacceptable.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,335
    It's hard to tell really. Though it would be very fascinating to know the reasons for it. It could be neither Mendes or Newman gave a damn, but I would be interesting in knowing the story behind the overly reused cues and copy and pasted music.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    The sometimes grotesque criticism Spectre gets around here is hilarious.

    Some people should learn to have fun and take a movie for what it is, entertainment to get away from the daily worries. Spectre does that very successfully, as almost all of the past Bond movies did.

    Yes, it's simply because it's the latest to come out. Hopefully it will die down when B25 comes out.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    It's not possible to overuse the Bond theme (the real crime is when it's hardly used). But there are inappropriate times to include it, such as when Bond is in his hotel room in DN. Then it's just silly.

    I think that happens in FRWL as well. Yes it is quite silly there.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,912
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    It's not possible to overuse the Bond theme (the real crime is when it's hardly used). But there are inappropriate times to include it, such as when Bond is in his hotel room in DN. Then it's just silly.

    Oh come on, if all you heard through the entire film was the Bond theme you'd be sick of it by the end! It would get boring very quickly.

    That would make a change from hearing 7 bars (or however few it is) of the theme in a 2hr+ film. It hasn't reached the point of gun barrel to end credits of Bond theme, and they have not overused it yet (I don't think so), but in the Craig films, it has been criminally underused to the point where if you listened to the soundtrack, you wouldn't know that it was from a Bond film. Less so in Spectre, but there were still room to fit it in.

    @IncompetentHenchman - You're right, I think it's FRWL that i'm thinking of (though there might be a similar scene in DN, i'm having a brain freeze moment, and I can't place the scene in DN). I have nothing against the film as a whole, but Bond is doing something routine, and they have the Bond theme in full swing while Bond is walking around the room searching for bugs.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    You're right, I think it's FRWL that i'm thinking of (though there might be a similar scene in DN, i'm having a brain freeze moment, and I can't place the scene in DN). I have nothing against the film as a whole, but Bond is doing something routine, and they have the Bond theme in full swing while Bond is walking around the room searching for bugs.

    Yeah the Bond film plays in the hotel scene in FRWL too.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    My rant is that Newman ruined Skyfall and Spectre for me. If the score had been decent I might have overlooked the unsuspenseful action scenes, the Bond-Blofeld connection, etc. The cut and paste job is so lazy, and the original score wasn't thrilling to begin with (unlike Barry's *007 theme")

    Diamonds are Forever is my exhibit here. For the most part the movie is so painfully bad and a f-you to the film before it but Barry's quirky score (and the dialogue) makes it a hoot to watch
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I've listened to over 25 different versions of the James Bond theme one after another, Never got boring. It's one of these songs that can never get boring for how great it is.

    It's a great theme but to use it relentlessly through a whole film wouldn't work. It would get tedious. Which is why John Barry mixed it up with music based on the title songs and his own Bond compositions. He never just played the Bond theme over and over again. But then what did he know eh?

    I'm with you mate but sounds like we're fighting a losing battle.

    It seems people want the Bond theme like it is used in games to tell them every time something Bondian happens rather than weaved into an overall score like Barry used to do.

    It wouldn't have hurt in SPECTRE. I'll take the Bond theme over lazy rehashed music from the last film.

    That's a cheap shot.

    I'd rather have a chimpanzee banging a pan with a wooden spoon than SP's score!

    I don't completely agree but that's funny :))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I felt it was overused by Arnold. I'm one of those who is quite happy not to hear it as much these days, except in key moments where it has more impact (end of CR or Aston reveal in SF). Having said that, if it is going to be used, I'd prefer it be incorporated into a new composition, as Newman himself did brilliantly during the SP pretitles, and which Barry did notably many times in the past.

    Joe Kraemer did a similar thing on MI-RN and it was one of the best scores I've heard in ages. Opening scene of that film alone shows how it should be done. Absolutely excellent scoring.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    bondjames wrote: »
    I felt it was overused by Arnold. I'm one of those who is quite happy not to hear it as much these days, except in key moments where it has more impact (end of CR or Aston reveal in SF). Having said that, if it is going to be used, I'd prefer it be incorporated into a new composition, as Newman himself did brilliantly during the SP pretitles, and which Barry did notably many times in the past.

    Joe Kraemer did a similar thing on MI-RN and it was one of the best scores I've heard in ages. Opening scene of that film alone shows how it should be done. Absolutely excellent scoring.

    Yes, I would like Kraemer to score the next Bond - he proved to me with Rogue Nation that he'd do a good job of it - really liked his score and the way he interweaved both the M:I theme and 'The Plot' theme.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I felt it was overused by Arnold. I'm one of those who is quite happy not to hear it as much these days, except in key moments where it has more impact (end of CR or Aston reveal in SF). Having said that, if it is going to be used, I'd prefer it be incorporated into a new composition, as Newman himself did brilliantly during the SP pretitles, and which Barry did notably many times in the past.

    Joe Kraemer did a similar thing on MI-RN and it was one of the best scores I've heard in ages. Opening scene of that film alone shows how it should be done. Absolutely excellent scoring.

    Yes, I would like Kraemer to score the next Bond - he proved to me with Rogue Nation that he'd do a good job of it - really liked his score and the way he interweaved both the M:I theme and 'The Plot' theme.
    Another score that was excellent last year was Henry Jackman for Kingsman. I particularly like the introduction of Samuel Jackson's character Valentine, along with henchwoman Gazelle. The ominous grating, sharp, industrial sound at the start mimics Gazelle's signature 'blade' legs. Great stuff.

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,572
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    It's because Dalton is a theatrical actor. Acting in the theatre and on screen are very different. On the theatre you want to make everything 'big'; whereas on screen because an audience can see you up close, it's all about subtlety. Dalton, certainly at that time, was an actor more suited to the stage in my opinion.

    Always been my argument.

    Watch the dining car scene in FRWL. Watch Connery, watch his movement, his expressions. That's film acting.

    Now watch anything Dalton does in LTK.

    Also, watch Craig in CR when he is outside the Embassy with a gun at the head of the bomb maker, surrounded by Embassy guards. Watch his face, and it's all there, in his eyes. Barely a change of expression, but it's all there. Film acting.

    Now watch anything Dalton does in LTK.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    NicNac wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    It's because Dalton is a theatrical actor. Acting in the theatre and on screen are very different. On the theatre you want to make everything 'big'; whereas on screen because an audience can see you up close, it's all about subtlety. Dalton, certainly at that time, was an actor more suited to the stage in my opinion.

    Always been my argument.

    Watch the dining car scene in FRWL. Watch Connery, watch his movement, his expressions. That's film acting.

    Now watch anything Dalton does in LTK.

    Also, watch Craig in CR when he is outside the Embassy with a gun at the head of the bomb maker, surrounded by Embassy guards. Watch his face, and it's all there, in his eyes. Barely a change of expression, but it's all there. Film acting.

    Now watch anything Dalton does in LTK.
    Subtlety was never Dalton's strong suit as Bond, it's true. Everything was exaggerated. Especially how he 'swings the gun' towards Bouvier when she enters the hotel, when he is with Q. 1:11 in the clip below. Ironically, it is Bouvier who appears more in control and infinitely 'cooler' at this moment.


  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited April 2016 Posts: 11,189
    @bondjames. Another example I noticed was the way in which he reaches inside his jacket pocket for the gun when he's fighting the ninja.

    Incidentally, I remember watching Sicario a few months back and being utterly terrified by Benicio Del Toro's intense, vengeful character. It then occurred to me that his performance was brilliant partly because he didn't seem to be doing anything with his face. His expressions were restrained and subtle.

    Very different to how Dalton portrayed a vengeful Bond in LTK.

    Other examples regarding Craig (I think) is when he meets Jusef at the end of QoS or earlier when he's met by M in the hotel room and sees Field's body. Those scenes were when I first realised the differences in acting style between Craig and Dalton.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Agreed @BAIN123. Both Dalton (and Brosnan with pain face etc.) were quite 'expressive' facially but to me it was a little overdone, unecessarily. To me, Craig nailed it in the scenes you mentioned, the scene where he smirked as Carlos blew up, the scene where he's coolly playing cards with Dimitrios in CR, as well as the great scene in CR when he notices Vesper in the shower. That's when I realized, after many years, they had found an excellent actor to 'embody' the Bond persona.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    @bondjames. Another example I noticed was the way in which he reaches inside his jacket pocket for the gun when he's fighting the ninja.

    Incidentally, I remember watching Sicario a few months back and being utterly terrified by Benicio Del Toro's intense, vengeful character. It then occurred to me that his performance was brilliant partly because he didn't seem to be doing anything with his face. His expressions were restrained and subtle.

    Very different to how Dalton portrayed a vengeful Bond in LTK.

    Other examples regarding Craig (I think) is when he meets Jusef at the end of QoS or earlier when he's met by M in the hotel room and sees Field's body. Those scenes were when I first realised the differences in acting style between Craig and Dalton.

    I would like Del Toro to play a main villain in a Bond film.
  • Oddjobs_hatOddjobs_hat
    Posts: 79
    I couldn't disagree more. I watched LTK the other day and to me Dalton is Bond. People aren't subtle in real life always so why should they be in film? You can't equate subtlety with good acting. That's pretentious and plain wrong when you think about it.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    He'd be fantastic, but I almost wonder whether Del Toro is a bit too good for Bond now. :(
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I wish we saw more of Del Toro in LTK. I realize he was a newbie then, but he still made quite an impression. The potential was clearly evident back then.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Oddjobs_hat wrote: »
    I couldn't disagree more. I watched LTK the other day and to me Dalton is Bond. People aren't subtle in real life always so why should they be in film? You can't equate subtlety with good acting. That's pretentious and plain wrong when you think about it.

    You are wrong mate, maybe go to your 'safe space'
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,572
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Oddjobs_hat wrote: »
    I couldn't disagree more. I watched LTK the other day and to me Dalton is Bond. People aren't subtle in real life always so why should they be in film? You can't equate subtlety with good acting. That's pretentious and plain wrong when you think about it.

    You are wrong mate, maybe go to your 'safe space'

    I swear I just closed a thread to stop you guys fighting.
  • Oddjobs_hatOddjobs_hat
    Posts: 79
    @tanaka123 huh, logic fail much?
    I'm not suggesting this thread be closed because it contains comments I disagree with.

  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    I wasn't fighting, just giving my opinion ...
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Oddjobs_hat wrote: »
    @tanaka123 huh, logic fail much?
    I'm not suggesting this thread be closed because it contains comments I disagree with.

    That thread was closed - move on
  • Oddjobs_hatOddjobs_hat
    edited April 2016 Posts: 79
    Says the guy who has brought it up on a different thread......

    Maybe you should go home and reorganise your brain. It doesn't seem to be working too well at the moment.
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