Bond vs Hinx - Where does it rank among other fight scenes in the series?

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    After my 2nd viewing it's fallen down the rankings.

    The setting is way too derivative of other (dare I say, better?) Bond films. If they had just done this in another setting I would rank it much higher. Editing is also a little too close cut (even on 2nd viewing). I'd have preferred a few more longer range shots (just have the camera out a little farther back).

    As has been mentioned, they should have shown guests leaving, or getting hurt even (including perhaps a waiter being killed or something). Another lost opportunity in this film.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    royale65 wrote: »
    Unless maybe they'd made the same mistake with Camille and didn't want Madeline coming back to haunt them. Because all the Craig films are so cunningly interwoven aren't they?

    You've just revealed the plot for B25!

    SPECTRE would like Swann dead, because she knows about SPECTRE. Simple. What's that you say? Why didn't SPECTRE, with all it's resources, track down Swann beforehand? Well.......

    So why take her for a ride through the alps? Hinx not at all bothered about driving insanely through Rome or killing someone in public in a train carriage (albeit the public all mysteriously disappear). Why not just shoot Madeline in the face at the clinic and walk out rather than take her somewhere quiet to do it?

    Oberhauser for sure wanted to see her first, after all he remembered her.

    So just to get it right in my head: Oberhauser demands Hinx to bring the daughter of a bloke he has had killed to see him so he could taunt her over her father's death before he kills her but, despite having been the author of all Bond's pain and having gone to extreme lengths to kill everyone he was close to, he his happy to let Hinx just kill Bond in Rome or on the train without feeling the need to see him and taunt him?

    Even though Madeline was just the daughter of one of his victims but Bond is some sort of foster brother against whom he has harboured a festering grudge since being a teenager?

    As Cary Grant says in North By Northwest 'Sorry old man. Too bad. Keep trying'.

    I'm still waiting for someone to prove that this script was not cobbled together.



  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,395
    Maybe Blofeld wanted to play chess with her @TheWizardOfIce? So he send Hinx to pick her up...
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    royale65 wrote: »
    Maybe Blofeld wanted to play chess with her @TheWizardOfIce? So he send Hinx to pick her up...

    In the wacky world of P&W that could be credible.

  • Posts: 3,314
    Just my tuppence worth: The connection I got as to why Blofeld wanted Dr Swann found and interrogated was to gain info on her father's hidded secrets on Spectre, which turned out to be concealed in L'Americain. Like Bond, it's possibly that Spectre thought "The American" was a person also, hence the reason why she was abducted by Hinx to get the answers.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,395
    I'll go with that @bondsum
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021

    Some simply try to create plot holes where there aren't any.

    It's all logical and simple, Oberhauser wants Bond killed, when he doesn't succeed he's taking him to his lair to torture him.
    Swann he wants for information.
    When Blofeld realises Swann is in love with Bond, he's going after her as soon as they escaped to finally cause Bond ultimate pain by making him choose between saving himself or die together with her in the explosion.
  • Posts: 266
    @bondsum, that is what I thought. I think once Hinx see's the tape of Mr white saying she knows L'Americain and the clinic where she might be, they go to find out exactly what she does know.

    I also think Oberhauser is in regular contact with 'C' to track Bond and he probably realises Hinx has been unsuccessful and then that is when he decides to get the rooms ready for Bond and Swann and he sends the car. Some of that is down to interpretation though so I may be wrong, but that is what I concluded.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,686
    The best fights are the ones that Bond looks like he is going to lose.

    That's why the fight from FRWL stands up so well. You can actually see it in Connery's face, "I'm actually in real trouble, here."

    For the first time in the Craig films I felt the same thing when he faced off with Hinx.

    Shame that they couldn't have kept some of the nasty after effects that we saw after the fight with Obanno in CR. It would have really solidified the whole sequence for me.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited November 2015 Posts: 9,117
    It's all logical and simple, Oberhauser wants Bond killed, when he doesn't succeed he's taking him to his lair to torture him.

    'Hinx I have spent the last 4 films causing misery to this bloke who my dad loved more than me when we were kids and I really want him to suffer. But please just randomly kill him so he doesnt know it was me all along.'

    'Whats that Hinx? You're in a neck brace in hospital and you failed to kill Bond. Never mind. Actually I now think I'd prefer it if I brought him here to torture him after all.'
    Swann he wants for information.

    'Hinx what about that girl who has tried to escape her father's shadowy past by going off and living her own life and has nothing to do with his criminal past? Go and capture her and bring her to me because despite being in cahoots with a bloke who has top level access to British intelligence I think she might have vital information pertaining to something or other.'

    For me a good script is not one where one has to perform Kama Sutra-esque contortions of logic in order for it to make any sort of sense.
  • @TheWizardOfIce

    unanswerable. =D>
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited November 2015 Posts: 9,021
    As I said, some simply don't want to understand the movie. Hilarious.
    You should probably stick to watching Sesame Street, there everything is laid out and explained in great detail for you. More than 1+1=2 or B comes after A is probably to complex for you.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    'Hinx I have spent the last 4 films causing misery to this bloke who my dad loved more than me when we were kids and I really want him to suffer. But please just randomly kill him so he doesnt know it was me all along.'

    I never really took it as being that simple. I got the impression ESB was f***ing with him for fun, but had bigger fish to fry. He's happy if Bond dies, but when he does eventually track him to Morocco he slips into classic hubris mode, 'while you're here I might as well let you know how I've (directly and indirectly) destroyed your life, before I finally end it. I don't see the 'daddy issues' thing as a driver. It's not the reason he started SPECTRE and he didn't proactively decide to screw with Bond. Bond stepped into his world. Had he been a bank clerk I hardly think ESB would've had quite the same thirst for revenge. He even says in the SP meeting, 'Mexico city rang a distant bell', that's enough to tell you that Bond is a mere inconvenience in the grand scheme of things, where ESB to Bond is becoming this overwhelming spectre. I agree that the film sometimes lacks coherence in relaying the specifics, but I think the driving forces are there and make sense.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I had lunch with a colleague yesterday. The discussion moved to SP. He'd seen it so I inquired about his thoughts.

    In a nutshell - he thought it was an haphazard mess. He brought up many of the things we've been speaking about here. Including 'brother', and particularly the retcon of Silva (which he just found ridiculous). I didn't guide/lead the conversation, but just listened to what he said. He thought they should have taken more time at the Blofeld lair and the explosion etc. should have built it up more (like I do). He wasn't upset about anything.....just felt it was truly mediocre.

    I checked to see what he thought about SF (to see if that may have been influencing his thoughts). Interestingly, he felt the same about that one (his words were "convoluted mess").

    He, on his own, said that the most important thing for a Bond film, apart from the lead actor, is the director (bottom line: He thought Mendes screwed up - twice).

    He brought up CR and said that one was great.

    He also said that 'DC is done' (so he's read the comments) and said that he's been 'bad mouthing the film' in earlier interviews.

    I'm pretty sure that this is how a lot of 'casual fans' are feeling about this film. These same 'plot' issues were there in SF and have been debated ad nauseam on this site. It's just that, for some, they were missed with that film and are apparent here. For others, it was a major problem there and for some reason it's being missed (or not cared about/ignored) here......I suspect it's because this film has more of the 'James Bond' trappings thrown in to appease the hardcore.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    CR is generally loved, maybe as much as GF, certainly as much as TSWLM or GE.

    SF was a phenomenon, but it's hard to argue that it isn't the GF of our time popularity wise.

    The difference between SF and SP is that plot holes don't matter much with SP as it is a 100% fun movie like TSWLM or GE with lots of cool OTT action.

    SF on the other hand takes itself seriously, more than any Bond movie before and then plot holes matter very much as they damage the movie.

    I have to laugh hard, when some try to explain the plot holes of Spectre to death.
    Then they surely can't enjoy movies like the ones I've mentioned above as well.

    Let alone anything that comes out of the Marvel Universe.

    They should get a grip and enjoy themselves.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    The difference between SF and SP is that plot holes don't matter much with SP as it is a 100% fun movie like TSWLM or GE with lots of cool OTT action.
    Exactly as I concluded in my earlier post.......regarding why some like it.

    I don't find it a 100% fun movie after Rome personally, but up to that point it's up there with TSWLM.

    I disagree about the cool OTT action though. Perhaps that is what is impacting some of us here and not allowing us to be so 'glowing' and 'effusive' in our praise (despite liking it in parts). I found the action quite dull actually......TWINE dull in places.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    bondjames wrote: »
    The difference between SF and SP is that plot holes don't matter much with SP as it is a 100% fun movie like TSWLM or GE with lots of cool OTT action.
    Exactly as I concluded in my earlier post.......regarding why some like it.

    I don't find it a 100% fun movie after Rome personally, but up to that point it's up there with TSWLM.

    I disagree about the cool OTT action though. Perhaps that is what is impacting some of us here and not allowing us to be so 'glowing' and 'effusive' in our praise (despite liking it in parts). I found the action quite dull actually......TWINE dull in places.

    Well I blame Michael Apted.
    I think Sam Mendes did a much better job at action, but that's really a matter of taste I guess.
  • Posts: 266
    RC7 wrote: »
    'Hinx I have spent the last 4 films causing misery to this bloke who my dad loved more than me when we were kids and I really want him to suffer. But please just randomly kill him so he doesnt know it was me all along.'

    I never really took it as being that simple. I got the impression ESB was f***ing with him for fun, but had bigger fish to fry. He's happy if Bond dies, but when he does eventually track him to Morocco he slips into classic hubris mode, 'while you're here I might as well let you know how I've (directly and indirectly) destroyed your life, before I finally end it. I don't see the 'daddy issues' thing as a driver. It's not the reason he started SPECTRE and he didn't proactively decide to screw with Bond. Bond stepped into his world. Had he been a bank clerk I hardly think ESB would've had quite the same thirst for revenge. He even says in the SP meeting, 'Mexico city rang a distant bell', that's enough to tell you that Bond is a mere inconvenience in the grand scheme of things, where ESB to Bond is becoming this overwhelming spectre. I agree that the film sometimes lacks coherence in relaying the specifics, but I think the driving forces are there and make sense.

    I agree @RC7 that is how took it too. And i also agree it lacks a certain coherence in places, i think it is due to having 4 writers. i do really like the film though.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Far, far, far, far, far, far, far away.
    Posts: 42,565
    It is certainly a top ten fight in the series along with other classic scenes from FRWL, GF, OHMSS, TSWLM, TLD and CR.

    Quite reminiscent of the other top train fights, namely Bond vs Grant in FRWL and Bond vs Jaws in TSWLM. In a good way.
  • It is certainly a top ten fight in the series along with other classic scenes from FRWL, GF, OHMSS, TSWLM, TLD and CR.

    Quite reminiscent of the other top train fights, namely Bond vs Grant in FRWL and Bond vs Jaws in TSWLM. In a good way.

    I'm no partisan of YOLT, but I've always loved Seanery's punch-up with that burly Japanese in the Osato building. Very underrated.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Far, far, far, far, far, far, far away.
    Posts: 42,565
    It is certainly a top ten fight in the series along with other classic scenes from FRWL, GF, OHMSS, TSWLM, TLD and CR.

    Quite reminiscent of the other top train fights, namely Bond vs Grant in FRWL and Bond vs Jaws in TSWLM. In a good way.

    I'm no partisan of YOLT, but I've always loved Seanery's punch-up with that burly Japanese in the Osato building. Very underrated.

    Yeah, he hammers him with a sofa no less. Another good one.
  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    Posts: 403
    Definitely harkens back to the Connery/Lazenby days of brutal brawls and fisticuffs. Me like A LOT.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    That YOLT fight is a great one. From Bond's intro ("Good evening") to the actual fight, which has incredible 60's exaggerated sound effects. It is also filmed from a little farther back so you can really take it all in (including the great looking Japanese office), which is what I would have preferred in SP.

    I'll take this one over the SP train fight any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Connery makes it all look too easy really.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Can someone explain something to me, which has been going through my head about this fight?

    We see Bond looking at the martini shaker on his table, and he sees Hinx, thereby knowing he has to react. That was a nice throwback to GE and all.....

    However, I said on another thread that I would have preferred to have seen some palpable fear (in the reactions of either Bond or Swann, or both) prior to and during the fight. To me, the perfect time for this would have been as Hinx was approaching the table.

    Now the question:
    Why the heck didn't Swann see Hinx coming towards her? If I look at the photos below, the chair backs are quite low, so a hulking man like him would have been quite obvious to notice as he came through the doors into their cab. I wonder if I subconsciously picked up on this in the theatre, and that could be something throwing me about this scene.

    SPECTRE-007-Image-du-film-2-Daniel-Craig-L%C3%A9a-Seydoux-Dia-de-los-muertos-Go-with-the-Blog.jpg

    angelus1_0.jpg?itok=GwqWYDDL
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    Who says she didn't see him??
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    It is certainly a top ten fight in the series along with other classic scenes from FRWL, GF, OHMSS, TSWLM, TLD and CR.

    Quite reminiscent of the other top train fights, namely Bond vs Grant in FRWL and Bond vs Jaws in TSWLM. In a good way.

    I'm no partisan of YOLT, but I've always loved Seanery's punch-up with that burly Japanese in the Osato building. Very underrated.

    Oh yes, the fight between Connery and Dwayne 'the rock' Johnson's maternal grandfather.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Who says she didn't see him??
    If she saw him, then they should have shown her reaction. It would have added more to the scene. Apart from the SPECTRE meeting, nobody seemed to really fear this guy, including Bond (in the car chase) and Swann (at the clinic and in the train fight). That's what took away a little of his menace for me.

    It's a directorial question more than anything else. They should have flashed to her quick reaction of shock or fear. As I said on another thread, Anya in the truck in Egypt fumbling with her keys and/or Manuela in Rio touching her neck were examples.
  • doubleoego wrote: »
    It is certainly a top ten fight in the series along with other classic scenes from FRWL, GF, OHMSS, TSWLM, TLD and CR.

    Quite reminiscent of the other top train fights, namely Bond vs Grant in FRWL and Bond vs Jaws in TSWLM. In a good way.

    I'm no partisan of YOLT, but I've always loved Seanery's punch-up with that burly Japanese in the Osato building. Very underrated.

    Oh yes, the fight between Connery and Dwayne 'the rock' Johnson's maternal grandfather.

    Really? I thought that was Draco's black goon in OHMSS.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Far, far, far, far, far, far, far away.
    edited November 2015 Posts: 42,565
    doubleoego wrote: »
    It is certainly a top ten fight in the series along with other classic scenes from FRWL, GF, OHMSS, TSWLM, TLD and CR.

    Quite reminiscent of the other top train fights, namely Bond vs Grant in FRWL and Bond vs Jaws in TSWLM. In a good way.

    I'm no partisan of YOLT, but I've always loved Seanery's punch-up with that burly Japanese in the Osato building. Very underrated.

    Oh yes, the fight between Connery and Dwayne 'the rock' Johnson's maternal grandfather.

    Really? I thought that was Draco's black goon in OHMSS.

    I thought it was Rock Lobster Johnson.


  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    doubleoego wrote: »
    It is certainly a top ten fight in the series along with other classic scenes from FRWL, GF, OHMSS, TSWLM, TLD and CR.

    Quite reminiscent of the other top train fights, namely Bond vs Grant in FRWL and Bond vs Jaws in TSWLM. In a good way.

    I'm no partisan of YOLT, but I've always loved Seanery's punch-up with that burly Japanese in the Osato building. Very underrated.

    Oh yes, the fight between Connery and Dwayne 'the rock' Johnson's maternal grandfather.

    Really? I thought that was Draco's black goon in OHMSS.

    The only connection The Rock has to Bond is his mother's father being the goon Connery fights in the Osato office.
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