Bond vs Hinx - Where does it rank among other fight scenes in the series?

edited February 2016 in SPECTRE Posts: 7,335
Seeing as the other action set pieces have got their own threads, I thought this deserved one too.

For me it was my favourite action scene in the film, and that says quite a bit! I would immediately put it in the same tier as the series' most iconic fights, from FRWL, GF, CR and alike. So what do you think?
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Comments

  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,262
    I have it second to Red Grant. It was a highlight of the film because it was clever and also worked at advancing the chemistry between Bond and Swann.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    It's a great fight and one of the highlights of the film. Brutal.

    For me, it sits below the following (in no order):
    FRWL train, CR stairwell, QoS Slate, GE 006, YOLT Osato office, OHMSS beach, OHMSS hotel, & DAF elevator.

    Good though it was, it could have done with better editing and more distance filming (like the CR stairwell fight) to allow the viewer to better take in the action, imho.
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,262
    @bondjames I liked the close proximity camera angles. They gave it an in your face feel and provided more suspense for when Swann shoots him. It was a fruitful decision to have her make an indirect hit because the way Bond disposes of him is brilliant and original. It also allowed the two of them to make some high context eye contact.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I have to watch it again @Mansfield. I think what's throwing me is, because it's a train fight, I'm having flashbacks to LALD, FRWL & TSWLM. In all of those films, the action was filmed more from a distance, so one could better make out what was happening.

    This fight is edited more like the Slate/QoS encounter.....which I also liked, but more for the sheer brutality/bloodletting of it.

    With this one, it seemed to me that it required a few more interspersed wide angle shots to give better perspective/contextual setting (since there were really 3 people in the fight and not the more usual 2). Having said that, I'm sure my view will change on repeated viewing and when I see it on blu ray on a smaller screen.

    I saw the film on laser IMAX and unfortunately was sitting a little too close to the screen, which may have affected my perception.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    It is difficult to rank this fight.

    The whole sequence is bloody perfect from every point of view.
    As @bondjames said, it has to be seen more than once because it is highly edited in some places. Something I usually don't like, but here it doesn't work against the scene (as in many scenes in QOS) but in favour of the whole sequence.

    Right now I would have to rank it almost on top. I still love the gritty fight between Bond and Trevelyan in and on the satellite dish construction the most. That showed nicely, that Brosnan was absolutely able to convincingly have brutal fights.

    The train fight in FRWL is so iconic it has to be in any Top 5 or even Top 3 list.

    As of now: 1. SP, 2. GE, 3. FRWL
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 1,262
    It had a few wide shots to orient the audience and then thrust right back into the close ups. It's possible a few more wide shots would have helped, perhaps when he had Bond pinned off his feet to show the size difference. Though, I readily felt the difference in their strength.

    As an aside, it's egregious to fault the romance of Bond and Swann when it's asked what they do next and get full on passionate after a near death experience. The entire sequence had me on the edge of my seat and that rarely happens to me, even for an action flick.
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 1,262
    The reason why it can't touch Red Grant for me is because not only was it proper drama, but it connected the dots of the entire plot in a profound way.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    The fight was fantastic and I loved the fact that Bond laid the smackdown on Hinx as opposed to being 100% dominated ala Bane vs batman in the sewer. One sided fights are boring and I'm glad tgat wasnt tge case here; But at the same time Hinx really punishing Bond and then on the verge of killing him felt earnest in its execution. I would have liked the fight to last another 30 seconds and for Craig to be bloodied up to make it better but as it is, it sits in the top 7 fights of the series.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    Hinx's entrance into the fight was well executed. His image enlarging on the glass was menacing. I wish they'd have kept him voiceless (think he spoke twice). It did have a Bane-Batman feel, and I wish Lea had been more useful during the early parts of the fight instead of getting slapped out, ala...Dr. Goodhead & Natalya.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,365
    1. vs Slate in QoS
    2. vs Grant
    3. vs Hinx
    4. vs Jaws in TSWLM
    5. vs Oddjob in GF
    6. vs Franks in DAF
    7. stairwell in CR
    8. vs Patrice in SF pts
  • Posts: 2,488
    One of the better ones for sure.
  • Posts: 406
    Great fight sequence. One of the best
  • Posts: 183
    Awesome, for me it ranks top 3. At the moment number 1 but I acknowledge that will be largely for the freshness of it. Once the hype of it being new to the series calms down it will probably sit behind the CR stairwell and possibly Red Grant train fight.

    Loved the lack of music (initially), it really amped up the intensity, then when the music did kick in it was near the end and was used to great effect, emphasising Bond was in serious trouble.

    Bond saves Swann's life and vice versa, great teamwork to despatch him and it was the first in your face nod to how compatible they are.
  • Great fight scene, very well done. Great to see it in a theater with a big sound system. You could hear every loud booming THUD
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 7,335
    Mansfield wrote: »
    The reason why it can't touch Red Grant for me is because not only was it proper drama, but it connected the dots of the entire plot in a profound way.


    Agreed. In Russia the entire story builds up to that very moment. You can't really compete with that kind of suspense. But this one comes damn close if you ask me! You have this incredibly dramatic introduction of Hinx which sets it up so well. And with all the nostalgic FRWL references, at least all Bond fans anticipated what was gonna happen, building up some great anticipation. And the fight itself from a technical perspective is practically impeccable. I can't really fault it. Its gritty and brutal yet stylish, its familiar yet original.
  • It was actually the complete inverse of FRWL if you think about it. The Bond-Grant fight happens after a long buildup and increasing tension. In SP the fight just explodes out of nowhere (in a good way)

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    Hinx definitely deserved more screen time but for the time he was on screen he was excellent.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 7,335
    dinovelvet wrote: »
    It was actually the complete inverse of FRWL if you think about it. The Bond-Grant fight happens after a long buildup and increasing tension. In SP the fight just explodes out of nowhere (in a good way)


    Yes, the only thing missing from the scene if you ask me was Hinx casually joining them for dinner ordering red Chianti with fish. Would have been a challenge making sense of that in the script though. ;)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It was a great fight (maybe not the conclusion), but it takes some distance, at least s year, to put these things in proper perspective.

    Absolutely right. It needs time to settle and having only seen it once it's difficult to make a judgement however why would I let any of that stop me?

    My guy instinct is that it doesn't quite match FRWL or the brutality of CR stairwell and comes in third.

    However that could easily change upon my next viewing as I was in a shit mood on my first viewing of the film which rather soured the whole experience (hence up till now I have probably been too critical of the film as a whole - although not about Newman's lazy score!).

    There are some things I really like though:

    There's a moment when Bond ducks and Hinx punches a piece of wood straight down the camera lense where you really feel the power of the guy.

    About half way through Bond manages to extricate himself from grappling and goes toe to toe, boxing with him and is clearly the better boxer. He manages to land a few good blows but just can't stop the man mountain coming at him.

    Towards the end Hinx beats Bond to the floor and you really think he is actually in serious trouble here.

    A few things I'm not so keen on:

    The empty train carriage; at least have the waiter cowering somewhere.

    The end is a tad unsatisfying. Felt a bit too convenient for the rope, hook and barrels just lying there.

    I wouldn't have had Hinx say 'shit' as he went. Better to say nothing. I get the whole gag is that's his only word but a little shrug of defeat and a wry grin as he knows his fate is sealed would've been a bit more classy I think.

    Not sure how I feel about Madeline saving the day. While I appreciate @Trigger's point that it strengthens the romance I can't help feeling that it would have been more dramatic if, when Bond is finally down and looking beaten, we had cut away to Madeline and she is still unconscious. We would seriously fear for Bond at this point as he would be completely on his own and would have to resolve it himself. But maybe that's the point - he isn't on his own anymore and it helps to sell the romance?

    Anyway the best action sequence in the film and certainly one of the top 5 fights of the series.

  • DariusDarius UK
    Posts: 354
    For my money, I would have preferred more immediate build up to the fight. Maybe a scene at Tangier Ville Railway station with Bond and Swann boarding the train, pan to Hinx boarding too, maybe with his face hidden.

    As regards the fight itself, it has to be up there with the best as far as performance, direction and choreography go, but as I mentioned above, there's just no suspense leading up to it. In FRWL, the audience is aware of who Grant is, but Bond is unaware, and this is a suspenseful build up to the eventual physical conflict that we pretty much know is going to happen eventually. We are constantly wondering how or when Bond is going to rumble Nash/Grant, or maybe Grant will simply kill Bond -- we're kept guessing until the last moment when Grant dupes Bond and renders him powerless. In SP, it's a matter of:

    1. Bond and Swann are exchanging small talk on the train.
    2 Hinx materialises out of nowhere.
    3. Bond and Hinx fight.
    4. Swann saves Bond.
    5. Bond and Swann jump each other's bones.

    There's just no suspense and frankly, if you took out this fight scene it would make no difference to the plot.
  • Posts: 12,289
    Where i am not sure but it is certainly right up there!
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 2,483
    It was, of course, a purposeful nod toward the Bond/Grant train punch-up in FRWL. And it was exceptionally well done. May have been the most brutal fight in Bond history. And when Hinx socks Swann! The meaty thwack one hears is sickeningly real.
  • dinovelvet wrote: »
    It was actually the complete inverse of FRWL if you think about it. The Bond-Grant fight happens after a long buildup and increasing tension. In SP the fight just explodes out of nowhere (in a good way)

    Good point.

  • doubleoego wrote: »
    Hinx definitely deserved more screen time but for the time he was on screen he was excellent.

    I'm calling it right now--Hinx is the best henchman in Bond history.

  • Posts: 12,289
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Hinx definitely deserved more screen time but for the time he was on screen he was excellent.

    I'm calling it right now--Hinx is the best henchman in Bond history.

    Hopefully we will see him again?!!!!
  • Posts: 183
    I actually liked that there was no build up or suspense. It comes out of no where and I love that. There I was happily relaxing watching some good banter between Bond and Swann, and then BOOM!
  • Agreed, Trigger. One of SP's strong suits is the element of surprise. Hinx's attack and the car crash when M and Q are driving to confront Max were both incredibly jarring. I was fairly knocked out of my seat.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Hinx definitely deserved more screen time but for the time he was on screen he was excellent.

    I'm calling it right now--Hinx is the best henchman in Bond history.

    I think Hinx is definitely the toughest and easily the biggest and provides a more dynamic altercation over the likes of Odd job and Jaws but Grant is in a league of his own. Grant really delivered the whole cat and mouse dynamic, gradually building the tension throughout the movie so it made the fight with Bond all the more poignant.
  • Posts: 1,098
    I thought it was a bloody good fight, and Bond was lucky to survive.......by being saved by Swann.........in fact during the fight Bond looked quite desperate, like he knew he may not win.
    Did hear that a scene from the fight had to be cut by the censors!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited November 2015 Posts: 9,117
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Hinx definitely deserved more screen time but for the time he was on screen he was excellent.

    I'm calling it right now--Hinx is the best henchman in Bond history.

    Whoah!! (That's English for stop a horse!)

    That's quite a bold claim Sir!

    A very good entrance and fight but I feel the writing stopped him from being great.

    What exactly is his motivation? Just to kill Bond it seems in the car chase and the train - which is fair enough. Except Blofeld sends the car to pick Bond up so he doesn't want him dead then? Buggered if I know.

    Similarly why does he kidnap Madeline rather than kill her? White is nothing to SPECTRE and, indeed dead, so what is their interest in Madeline at all? Where is Hinx taking her in the car?

    Or is it just to lure Bond because C is helping them track him via the smart blood (that's a seriously wank name for it by the way - just call it a chip like in CR)?

    We just need a little scene where Hinx's motivations are made clear. From his introduction it seems like he is applying for membership to SPECTRE so is he just doing all this to impress Blofeld? Or is he actually under orders?

    It's really not enough for him just to keep popping up all over the place without knowing why. Jaws similarly kept popping up trying to kill Bond but that was fine because he was told to 'eliminate anyone who comes into contact with that microfilm' so hence Fekkesh and Kalba bought it and Bond and Anya are next.

    But Hinx for reasons known only to himself wants to kill Bond and kidnap Madeline. That's not good enough I'm afraid.

    And certainly not good enough to make him best henchman of all time.
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