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Comments
Without a doubt C is the most painfully boring character in the film. Scott is never really given any compelling material, therefore his performance never gets to be anything more than bland.
Essentially C is only in the movie as set-up for a brilliant punch-line delivered by Ralph Fiennes in the third act. His death scene isn't really all that well done either.
I've been reading through this thread and it would seem that the initial idea of Oberhauser and Bond playing cards (opposed to the abysmal solar furnace scene) would have played brilliantly in the final film! Especially as it ties in with the whole 'cuckoo' story about Bond and Oberhauser growing up (interestingly the story about the pair playing cards and using hazlenuts as chips has been cut from the final film). The card game would have worked so much better, especially considering the inclusion of the watch and it's significance in the game (the watch is still the cause of Blofeld's disfigurement but it's Madeline who throws it to Oberhauser after Bond goes a little insane after the lobotomy).
The only thing I don't like about the December draft is Bond revealing Blofeld's name. It makes sense that Oberhauser would cast his old idenitiy aside (he did murder his father after all) and take his mother's name. Also it may be reassuring for fans on the forum that the white cat is indeed back in the final cut.
With all due respect you have so much disdain for this movie that you seem to like nothing of it. That's your opinion and I respect that but I've hardly ever heard anyone so down on this film. You actually sound depressed.
I take it very strongly that SP is nothing as you expected or wanted. Personally I'm glad they didn't do Skyfall 2 and I am btw a big fan of SF.
From gb on this movie sounds like a welcome reprieve from another character study Bond ....or Batman ...or whomever. MI didn't bother with that ...
No I'm going to enjoy and critique this film for what it is and from what I believe is the filmmakers' goal of this movie... not for why it's not Skyfall.
You're totally right man.
I'm actually really not that downbeat about it. truthfully, I liked it. Over the last few days as I've let it dwell on my mind and listened to the cast interviews I've felt more educated on the movie and have come to appreciate it more.
However, my perspective should be appreciated: I had only seen the trailers (which are very moody, brooding and dark) and had read a few choice quotes from the filmmakers's talking about exploring Bond's past and continuing the ideas from Skyfall.
It's a weird position to see a film a week before general release and before the hype really kicks in. You get to see it fresh and not have the experience tainted. In many ways this is exactly the way you should see a film, however, like everyone here I love Bond so I already had an idea of the film in my head. My expectations weren't met on initial blush. This isn't to say I hated it. I had a huge grin on my face throughout most of the film. But overall, I felt disappointed.
However, I know many here were fed up with the more mature and serious films like SF and wanted something more fun and escapist. I'd imagine that this forum will light up with praise on Monday evening and I truly anticipate that.
Spectre is a PROPER 'Bond film'. In the best and worst use of the term.
It has great action, wit, it's sexy and glamorous and the fights are brutal. But it also inherits some of the less admirable traits from the series; dodgy dialogue, a slightly camp tone, a poorly thought-through plot and weak character developments.
Any other Doctor Who fans who just thought of Mindwarp from Trial Of A Timelord there!
re-boot-movie-world, Blofeld is Oberhauser's son who murdered daddy. Wonder whose brainchild idea this was?
Even OP movie (which obliquely referenced Dexter Smythe and the killing of Oberhauser) only expanded on the canon by having OP be Smythe's daughter. It didn't change anything, but this SP plot development completely rewrites the Fleming story.
Why trample on the Fleming canon?
I am not really bothered that the final film version has changed so much from the Dec script, that we all digested and memorized, although, as others have mentioned, I too had become strangely invested in it.
Memory of the December script I think will fade, and the final version will become entrenched.
Key to acceptance is how well the movie holds up as both entertainment and as a smart Bond film.
Personally I think it will hold up fine. I am just leery about how the Blofeld as Oberhauser's son angle is handled. Right now I am leaning towards it being one of the dumbest adaptations of Fleming material ever.
And what is so offputting about dm's assertions is that he is absolutely convinced that there is something in the story that assures that DC absolutely no way, can return as Bond.
What boggles it that he can't understand that this is only the opinion of individuals who might have known, or even do know the finished story.
Well, we do pretty much know the finished story. We are being filled in on this thread, and still there is nothing that remotely says Craig can't return.
That, someone has an opinion of what some info might mean, is only something to consider and kick about, not a hard revelation.
Dm had nothing to tell us then and still doesn't. No sources, no credentials,no track record, no nothing. Just a lot of I want attention.
Anyway, I only brought it up because I think the final version as being revealed does leave way more wiggle room for directon of a possible sequel and certainly does allow that Craig can return.
The Dec version seemed to be leaning towards an OHMSS ending, followed by Shatterhand/YOLT story. It could still go in that direction, but ending doesn't seem to point so directly anymore.
All will become clearer when film actually viewed.
I won't get access to movie until Nov 6 opening.
I hope those who see it before that date, can fully reveal all plot details on this thread. :)
I agree with you that we should respect his opinion but it does seem interesting that some of the fans who've already seen it seem so critical they don't stop for one minute to say "...but hey guys I hope you really enjoy it" or some such thing.
A slightly contentious suggestion but one does have to wonder if some people who've already seen it may enjoy a perverse and privileged kick out of 'raining on the parade' on the still enthusiastic fans who haven't.
I hope you know I meant no disrespect... I actually see your point. And yes at 150 minutes Mendes had plenty if time to develop his characters and for that I am disappointed in him. Of course I haven't seen the film but many enthusiastic and less enthusiastic reviewers have had the same complaint.
I agree with you that I'd rather not have have Blofeld entangled with the Oberhauser of Fleming lore but there have been many other silly liberties with Fleming taken over the years.
In fact I know it's cinematic Bond heresy but I'd have preferred an adaption of FRWL without including SPECTRE behind it. Forward thinking or whatever it still makes for a more confused plot than necessary.
On a more superficial note a shame Craig's Casino Royale wasn't set in a French seaside resort rather than the random choice of Montenegro. Especially as the last opportunity we had to see Royale-les-Eaux it ended up being Portugal!
Thanks so much for taking the time to answer all our many questions! And someday, if you ever do read the script, I would be curious to hear your thoughts and whether you think the final product is better or worse.
Eon has taken characters such as Milton Krest, and given him very different context ,but still they didn't invent radically new relationships with other Fleming characters.
We meet a much different Milton Krest in LTK as we did a much different Dikko Henderson in YOLT, but in this film one very distinct Fleming character (Oberhauser) is suddenly radically connected to another iconic Fleming character, that he has no association with whatsoever in the Fleming canon.
Blofled as son of Oberhauser just seems like something out of the Fleming adaptation no-fly zone.
Could always backtrack or just ignore later.. c'mon these are the same people that totally fubar'd M's continuity lol.
But Bond and Oppie aren't brothers.
Really?
I don't know. Turning Rene Mathis into a double agent (at least that's the implication in Quantum) is pretty close to the same thing.
And, of course, in the early drafts, Tanner was to be a traitor (an idea the Sony executives loved) who committed suicide while Bond watched.
Unrelated, but as an aside, Leiter was in the early drafts and called Moneypenny a "foxy lady."
Makes the Dr. No monkey idea seem brilliant.
The cat is mostly there for comedic purposes. It drew a huge laugh from the preview audience. It's first seen before Bond gets tortured and he regains consciousness.
It's a pretty camp moment - but deliberately so.
In some ways, the response from the audience was not dissimilar to the DB5 reveal in SF. People laughed because there was a certain self-confidence on show from Mendes embracing some of iconography associated with the Bond franchise.
Then Waltz introduces himself as Blofeld.
Do explain about Mathis though. I've never been able to make sense of the QoS dumpster revelations.
I do think Blofeld as daddy killing son of Oberhauser is crossing a line, admittedly, a difficult to draw line. It just doesn't smell right.
I agree with you, re: Blofeld, Hannes Oberhauser. It's crossing the line even more than the Mathis example.
I cannot wait to watch Spectre.
I wonder how QOS is mentioned in Spectre. Just a passing comment about D.Greene maybe?
a pity that they only used White and other villains as link up, without a slight mention of Quantum and its relation with Spectre, the arc seems incomplete.
For what it's worth - Purvis and Wade confirmed in Empire magazine that Quantum is SPECTRE's South American operation.
The fights are what I'm looking forward to the most and based on what you've said, some of the reviews have stated and a short clip from tge train fight, my wish has been granted.