SPECTRE Leaks Discussion (allowed on ONLY this thread) MAJOR PLOTLINE SPOILERS!

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  • patb wrote: »
    [
    Has anyone heard the audience laugh during the torture scene in CR?

    After "Now the whole world's gonna know that you died scratching my balls!" Not so much belly laughs but sniggers.

  • Anyone who knows about the gun barrel. Is there the traditional blood running down the screen ?
    ... And is Bond in a tuxedo or wearing a suit and tie?

    Do I see a bit of sarcasm there. I'm only asking because I've been told it fades black after bond shoots his gone. That's not very good if theres no blood running down traditionally.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited October 2015 Posts: 4,116
    patb wrote: »
    [
    Has anyone heard the audience laugh during the torture scene in CR?

    After "Now the whole world's gonna know that you died scratching my balls!" Not so much belly laughs but sniggers.

    Yea they laughed. Ball jokes always get laughs lol.

    I want to see how the scene plays out in my own. SP was not what @Pierce2Daniel was hoping for ...and I respect that and his opinion but if I am enjoying the film up to this point I suspect I may see it differently.

    And btw I don't mean any of that disrespectful to @P2D ..not everyone agrees.

    I loved SF but I thought the ending was weak and too sentimental. Silva ended up just being suicidal... didn't ring true with me. Plus it would have been far more entertaining and consistent if Bond and M had not made complete peace.



  • over here in Germany, CR received by far the biggest laughs during the torture scene. That was a tough scene but it was also the highlight of humour in that movie. I also think it was the scene where Craig won over almost every critic
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 4,622
    antovolk wrote: »
    The reviews do mention the torture scene so that is legit....but yeah - the reveal seems like this is combining elements of the October draft (with the 'I killed my father' bit) and the December with the family name. What's a shame really is that it seems that they indeed did keep the familial connection in some respects. What I loved about the version of the reveal in the December script is that it was subversive of previous similar 'big reveals' like Khan/John Harrison in Star Trek Into Darkness, in which it was Bond who did the reveal, saying that Oberhauser was in fact adopted by the Oberhauser family much like Bond, despite him saying that he is the real Oberhauser son, and that his real name in Blofeld.
    We'll have to see how that's done on screen but on paper, IMO the December version is more subtle. But, it wouldn't work in the context of the torture scene. It seems the poker game scene has been indeed cut and replaced with that.

    Yes I do prefer the original Dec version. What appeals is that it is revealed that Blofeld was simply brought into the Oberhauser family - adopted as a child due to circumstances etc. as opposed to actually being son of Oberhauser, adopted or blood.

    I prefer that Blofeld have no meaningful family connection to Oberhauser. I find that to be a bastardization of Fleming.
    Blofeld and Hanns Oberhauser are both Fleming characters. It's rather trite to try and connect a deranged arch villian such as Blofeld as blood offspring of a true and loved mentor to Bond. Very bizarre.
    Fleming did not connect these two characters in any way.
    There were plenty of other ways to concoct a fresh Blofeld origins story, which is what this film is much about.
    The more I think about it, the whole notion of Blofeld and Bond having any past childhood connection is tiresome.
    I don't like it. Adds nothing. Its more contrived personal drama for Bond.

    I do like the presence of the cat though. I like that this Blofeld is evolving into classic screen Blofeld, scar etc.

    If the We Have All The Time In The World line has been dropped at the end, that does put a damper I think on a potential YOLT (Fleming) type sequel- a Shatterhand, Castle Death type follow-up.

    The WHATTITW line effectively doomed Swann, but if the line is gone, then she doesn't have to be gone.

    I thought I read on these boards somewhere, that Waltz and Seydoux might have been lined up for a sequel - that they had been approached at least, just in case.

    Seems Eon is leaving the possibilities for sequel up in the air for now, by dropping the Louis Armstrong line, which kind of boxed them into a Blofeld-will-kill-Swann scenario.

    Assuming the Louis Armstrong line has indeed been dropped.....




  • 00Ralf00Ralf Germany
    Posts: 149
    Interesting question: Will Waltz return for future Bond movies? I somehow doubt he'd agree to a multi-picture deal, but perhaps they offered him a one with the guarantee that Bond 25 will focus on a high-ranked SPECTRE operative with Blofeld shown only for a short time (like in Thunderball, or FRWL). He'd move back into the spotlight in Bond 26 or Bond 27. It would open the door for a Klebb-/Largo-like character as the main villain next time and Waltz wouldn't be 'obstructed' by Bond too much in the next few years until a gigantic climax.

    I think I'm not too far from reality to assume he'll escape from captivity fairly quickly and has Madeleine assassinated. ;)
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    He is the author of so much pain
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited October 2015 Posts: 4,343
    Just a moment... So after killing his father Franz Oberhauser took the family name of his mother, which is Blofeld. Okay, shitty choice and I'm really disappointed. But what about "Ernst Stavro"?
  • Posts: 203
    so the two hooks Sam was talking about when they were going to shoot bond 24 & 25 back to back was 1) the new M turning out to be a bad guy and 2) Waltz's reveal as Blofeld. So it is possible that, Waltz and Lea could come back for bond 25, if DC returns as he is contracted to. If Mendes comes back (very doubtful), they will introduce Irma, etc.
  • TreefingersTreefingers Isthmus City, Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 191
    Very disappointing to hear how the reveal was worked out, the December version was much smoother, they should have known better not to tinker with the source material for the sake of some cheap melodrama they most likely won't follow upon. Such a missed oportunity.

    BTW, I am almost certain we'll be doomed to see Judi Dench's M's gohst again, I'd like to know, do we get to see Vesper's audition tape as well?
  • chipstickschipsticks NOT on TheDanielCraigForum where they think know Daniel Craig personally and Léa and Monica are ugly
    Posts: 560
    mnhettia wrote: »
    so the two hooks Sam was talking about when they were going to shoot bond 24 & 25 back to back was 1) the new M turning out to be a bad guy and 2) Waltz's reveal as Blofeld. So it is possible that, Waltz and Lea could come back for bond 25, if DC returns as he is contracted to. If Mendes comes back (very doubtful), they will introduce Irma, etc.

    I hope so [-O<
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 832
    The ending you described @Pierce2Daniel is far worse in every respect than what was in the december script. Very disappointing. Also I don't like at all that Blofeld has a cat, should not be a part of the reinvention. Finally i'm disappointed that the final line was dropped, as I thought that made for a fantastic ending.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    I am hoping Mendes does not return. Bond needs fresh blood.

    Hope P&W don't either ..at least they had sense enough to leave until got recruited back.

  • edited October 2015 Posts: 3,278
    @Pierce2Daniel

    How did they fix the continuity error in the last act? Here, Madeleine leaves London and then gets captured by Oberhauser in Paris, only to return to London, where she is then kept in the old MI6 building. All in a period of one evening.

    And a dentist chair? They should have used the solar furnace from the 1st draft. That would have been more original.
  • How convincing is the scar? Many here probably remember this photo during production:

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/08/18/296E594F00000578-3114929-image-m-2_1433785173042.jpg



  • Posts: 4,622
    I don't like the idea of Bond being tortured at all.
    Fleming only tortured him once and that was it.
    Fleming understood torture is prelude to death.
    It's a slower way of killing someone.
    Bond was lucky to survive LeChiffre. He got rescued. Surviving another strapped down helpless torture session is not realistic, even in Bond fantasy world.
    Continuation authors though are way more guilty of trying to establish their CR torture bonafides than Eon has been. We shall see. Maybe the SP scene isn't too greivous.
    Too bad someone couldn't have leaked the Dec script revisions.
    I suddenly feel left out, somehow.This having to find plot stuff out in theatre, like everyone else is so droll.
    ;)
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 4,410
    Zekidk wrote: »
    @Pierce2Daniel

    How did they fix the continuity error in the last act? Here, Madeleine leaves London and then gets captured by Oberhauser in Paris, only to return to London, where she is then kept in the old MI6 building. All in a period of one evening.

    And a dentist chair? They should have used the solar furnace from the 1st draft. That would have been more original.

    Not too sure, as I've said I know nothing about the scripts. Not read any of the leaks.

    But in the final film, Bond and the Mi6 team meet in a safehouse (I won't spoil the name of the building as it's a great reference) and Madeline decides it's not her fight. She leaves and it's implied she is captured. When Bond confronts Blofeld, it is revealed that Madeline has been caught. Nothing about Paris.

    Yep, it's not exactly a dentist's chair but it's weird. Bond is lobotomized.

    The scar is very convincing. I really loved it. For me it was the perfect Blofeld look, it's a shame Waltz never gets the chance to truly shine, he's most effective when you only see him in silhouette. His formal introduction in the film is essentially a riff on Bond's meeting with Dr.No, in fact lines are directly referenced from that line, in particular there is a new version of the "Our asylums are full" of psychopaths line, and something very similar to the moment when Bond discovers the fish tank in DN only this time with an comet.

    Also the scene in the trailer where Moneypenny gives Bond his "personal effects from Skyfall" is totally different in the film. She gives it to him in a courtyard.
  • Posts: 3,278
    "Bond is lobotomized."

    That sounds ludicrous.
  • Posts: 3,164
    Zekidk wrote: »
    @Pierce2Daniel

    How did they fix the continuity error in the last act? Here, Madeleine leaves London and then gets captured by Oberhauser in Paris, only to return to London, where she is then kept in the old MI6 building. All in a period of one evening.

    And a dentist chair? They should have used the solar furnace from the 1st draft. That would have been more original.

    Not too sure, as I've said I know nothing about the scripts. Not read any of the leaks.

    But in the final film, Bond and the Mi6 team meet in a safehouse (I won't spoil the name of the building as it's a great reference) and Madeline decides it's not her fight. She leaves and it's implied she is captured. When Bond confronts Blofeld, it is revealed that Madeline has been caught. Nothing about Paris.

    Yep, it's not exactly a dentist's chair but it's weird. Bond is lobotomized.

    The scar is very convincing. I really loved it. For me it was the perfect Blofeld look, it's a shame Waltz never gets the chance to truly shine, he's most effective when you only see him in silhouette. His formal introduction in the film is essentially a riff on Bond's meeting with Dr.No, in fact lines are directly referenced from that line, in particular there is a new version of the "Our asylums are full" of psychopaths line, and something very similar to the moment when Bond discovers the fish tank in DN only this time with an comet.

    Also the scene in the trailer where Moneypenny gives Bond his "personal effects from Skyfall" is totally different in the film. She gives it to him in a courtyard.

    So they nixed the "We found her changing planes at Charles du Gaulle, on her way to a new life" line, alright.

    One of my favourite parts of the December script is during the Rome chase, Bond switching on the "Atmosphere" switch which then starts blaring out Dusty Springfield's "Spooky". Has that been cut too?

    It seems that I think to avoid the leaks, they changed up the poker scene in the December draft to another CR callback - the torture scene. So the way Blofeld is revealed as you described makes sense - I just hope it works on screen....
  • Posts: 725
    timmer wrote: »
    I don't like the idea of Bond being tortured at all.
    Fleming only tortured him once and that was it.
    Fleming understood torture is prelude to death.
    It's a slower way of killing someone.
    Bond was lucky to survive LeChiffre. He got rescued. Surviving another strapped down helpless torture session is not realistic, even in Bond fantasy world.
    Continuation authors though are way more guilty of trying to establish their CR torture bonafides than Eon has been. We shall see. Maybe the SP scene isn't too greivous.
    Too bad someone couldn't have leaked the Dec script revisions.
    I suddenly feel left out, somehow.This having to find plot stuff out in theatre, like everyone else is so droll.
    ;)

    I don't either. How in the heck can he be lobotomized? It doesn't make sense. He would be seriously incapacitated for the rest of the film. I kind of hate to ask a question like this because I think I don't want to know the answer before I see the film in 2 weeks. Maybe it is a mini lobotomy. Sorry, bad joke.
  • From what I've gathered, Bond is about to be lobotomized before he escapes and saves the day.
  • Posts: 250
    It explains how he gets to his FYEO ensemble when escaping the base.
  • Posts: 4,617
    I think this part of the thread will be repeated for years to come and is reflected in some of the media reviews. So many of the "tick boxes" were in place: Director, cast, stunts, car, locations, etc etc The one massive variable was the actual story and you need to have a great story IMHO to have a great movie. After all, when all is striped away, that's what Bond movies are: stories
  • Posts: 486
    That's the thing with Skyfall. Terrible plot holes but the overall story is simple and obvious enough to follow.

    Personally I still miss the days of the over plotted Maibaum\Wilson scripts like OP and TLD!
  • antovolk wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    @Pierce2Daniel

    How did they fix the continuity error in the last act? Here, Madeleine leaves London and then gets captured by Oberhauser in Paris, only to return to London, where she is then kept in the old MI6 building. All in a period of one evening.

    And a dentist chair? They should have used the solar furnace from the 1st draft. That would have been more original.

    Not too sure, as I've said I know nothing about the scripts. Not read any of the leaks.

    But in the final film, Bond and the Mi6 team meet in a safehouse (I won't spoil the name of the building as it's a great reference) and Madeline decides it's not her fight. She leaves and it's implied she is captured. When Bond confronts Blofeld, it is revealed that Madeline has been caught. Nothing about Paris.

    Yep, it's not exactly a dentist's chair but it's weird. Bond is lobotomized.

    The scar is very convincing. I really loved it. For me it was the perfect Blofeld look, it's a shame Waltz never gets the chance to truly shine, he's most effective when you only see him in silhouette. His formal introduction in the film is essentially a riff on Bond's meeting with Dr.No, in fact lines are directly referenced from that line, in particular there is a new version of the "Our asylums are full" of psychopaths line, and something very similar to the moment when Bond discovers the fish tank in DN only this time with an comet.

    Also the scene in the trailer where Moneypenny gives Bond his "personal effects from Skyfall" is totally different in the film. She gives it to him in a courtyard.

    So they nixed the "We found her changing planes at Charles du Gaulle, on her way to a new life" line, alright.

    One of my favourite parts of the December script is during the Rome chase, Bond switching on the "Atmosphere" switch which then starts blaring out Dusty Springfield's "Spooky". Has that been cut too?

    It seems that I think to avoid the leaks, they changed up the poker scene in the December draft to another CR callback - the torture scene. So the way Blofeld is revealed as you described makes sense - I just hope it works on screen....

    No Dusty. Would have been a nice touch, another song plays for like two seconds (I think it may be from Cabaret). The car chase is a big disappointment. It's mostly just Bond chatting to Moneypenny about locating 'The Pale King', it also features Craig's worst line delivery of the film: "Oooooh of course, Mr. White!" There is very little actual 'chase' aside what in the trailer. Which is surprising, considering they took weeks to film it.

    I don't wanna ruin the lobotomy scene for people as it would seem to be one of the few genuine surprises even for those who have read the scripts.
  • Posts: 4,617
    I thought spoilers were allowed? - go on, spill the beans
  • Posts: 250
    Vale "Spooky". :(
  • Posts: 3,278
    @Pierce2Daniel

    One of my favorite parts from the script involved a Fiat in the Rome car "chase."
    Was there a a short scene with a small Fiat?
  • DrShatterhandDrShatterhand Garden of Death, near Belfast
    Posts: 805
    I'm getting a rather odd sensation about some of these revalations and wondered if I'm alone....

    I've only skimmed the spoilers from people who have been lucky enough to see SP already but it's clear there have been a few changes since the December revision, notably the lair scenes in Morroco. It's left me feeling a bit uneasy though for the finished movie.

    I was pretty settled in my mind that what would appear on-screen would be pretty much what I had read, with perhaps a few tweaks to the 3rd act. I'd played the movie out in my head and even though I wasn't 100% about everything in the script, I was still looking forward to seeing that story onscreen, which now of course we never will. Like I say, an odd feeling of loss for something I never really had if that makes sense.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Yes, a strange and unique situation for a movie. Having advanced access to a screenplay, running that through in head (with actors/characters that we know well so can imagine how it would play) and then seeing a different movie/version and preferring the version we had in our heads. Of course this is unique but we should know that all of the other Bond's had draft screenplays and many of those could , in our opinions, have been better than the final versions.
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