Music in SPECTRE

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  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,173
    It didn't have enough of the Bond sound and just wasn't very memorable. I don't hate Newman, but his Skyfall score just wasn't that great. Let's hope his score for SPECTRE is better and has some more tasteful uses of the Bond theme.
  • Posts: 4,619
    bondjames wrote: »
    Newman will bring the goods for SP. The doubters will be silenced.
    https://www.tinyurl.com/nxqyfd8
  • RC7RC7
    edited July 2015 Posts: 10,512
    Newman needs to let rip with SP. SF was far too reserved. A Bond score should have me out of my seat.
  • Posts: 278
    M_Balje wrote: »
    Don't vergot The Incredibles trailer fool us too with OHMSS remember, the scene whas not used in the final movie who whas more Batman releated. No Bond remember at all in final movie.


    Hey... John Barry was signed to score The Incredibles, but pulled out early on due to not wanting to go over old ground! Brad bird basically want Barry to bring all his Bond sound to Pixar, and Barry didn't!!

    bondjames wrote: »
    xolani wrote: »

    Thanks for posting.

    There has been a lot of complaints here over the last little while that Newman's music is timid (elevator music is the most common criticism).

    Well, I didn't hear any elevator music in that clip. There is significant 'punch' in the trailer music, and we seem to have it all thrown in (Classic Barry OHMSS for those who say Newman is not respecting the legacy, Bond theme for those who have been clamouring for it, throwbacks to the amazing techno thumping from the SF teaser trailer etc). It's almost as if Newman has been reading these boards and is responding to the naysayers and Arnold fanboys.

    Mark my words. There will be no complaints when this score is released. I'm sure of it.

    The music for all of the Craig trailers thus far has been done by Pfeiffer Broz. I don't think it was done by Newman. Although if it was, I agree with you.


    Also.... The 2nd trailer is scored by Rich Douglas, who also scored the 1st!! And was asked to incorporate Barry's OHMSS main theme! Rich done a good job I think.

    Tom is working harder than most are giving him credit for, and is all apparent to the legacy/respect that comes with that! Expect bigger, and bolder than before! Bond with brassy balls!!!
    x.
  • Posts: 5,767
    Nobody said Tom isn´t working hard.

    But I also don´t think anybody can predict what the new score is going to be like when the trailer music was not by him.
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    Posts: 1,767
    I do hope Newman comes up with a lush, romantic "Madeline' theme a la Severine and Vesper's theme, and weaves it into the score a bit more than 'Severine' this time.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited July 2015 Posts: 10,584
    Is it just me or can a variation of Severine's theme be heard playing at the casino about the time where Bond receives his martini, similar to how Elektra's theme can be heard at the casino in TWINE.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited July 2015 Posts: 11,120
    I don't even remember what Severene's theme sounds like that's how forgettable Newman's SF score was.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,209
    The problem of every new composer is, that the people actually still would want John Barry and compare the new man with Barry. If the composer does incorporate themjes from the Barry scores, üeople would say, he simply copycats Barry. If he does not, people will say, he misses the Barry Bond moments. So either way, the composer will get heavy criticism from both sides. The man Barry is gone for more than 4 years. I liked Arnold's scores (well, TWINE was alright, DAD was fitting for the mess the movie is), I liked his work on TND, CR, and QOS. I also liked Newman's work on SF. So we will have to wait and see, what Newman will come up with.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,120
    People seem to be certain that Newman is going to knock it out of the park for SP. I hope they're right but at the same time I think expectations maybe too high on their part because if he delivers another SF, then the man as far as I'm convinced is rendered a hack Bond composer and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a Bond movie ever again. But I'm getting ahead of myself. I sincerely look forward to his work and hope its much much MUCH better than what he delivered for SF.
  • Posts: 278
    doubleoego wrote: »
    People seem to be certain that Newman is going to knock it out of the park for SP. I hope they're right but at the same time I think expectations maybe too high on their part because if he delivers another SF, then the man as far as I'm convinced is rendered a hack Bond composer and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a Bond movie ever again. But I'm getting ahead of myself. I sincerely look forward to his work and hope its much much MUCH better than what he delivered for SF.

    A Hack composer!? Hey...11 oscar nods, and countless others! And a bafta win on SkyFall!

    Newman is about as musically capably as a real composer gets! Able to write via a pen and manuscript, and not relaying on a Mac!? To be able to play, arrange/conduct his compositions!
    And as you guys write him off, his working his butt off crating a Score fit for this film! Bond is not ever going to have John Barry write for us again...and sadly, as we all know why!
    And really, John had the chance to score other Bond films after The Living Daylights, but turned them down, so get over it!
    We all love what John gave us, and my goodness his contributions to Bond and film is general is beyond words, but what if Lalo Schifirin had scored mid sixties Bond, or Jerry Goldsmith, we'd be in a different place? And in some ways I'd wish the composing duties had been passed about more over the years! It's a tough tough job composing, and especially when there's such a legacy like with the Bond musical scores. George, Marvin, Bill, Michael and Eric all had a go, and all put in great shifts for there eras! David Arnold of course stayed longer than the others, and got some right old slagging for ripping off JB? Did he, or does a screaming brass section, lush strings and high end woodwind only belong to Barry!?
    But in a year where we've lost the likes of James Horner, a composer in the mould of Newman, a composer who is somewhat old school, able to write black notes on a page, and conduct those notes standing in front of a 100+ peice orchestra, that's real talent, real skill and right know, the man charged with ripping up the road with composing for Spectre, a Bond film which has all the elements you've all been wanting from the Craig era!
    Tom has a brief which will surprise many on this mission, and having the legacy the Bond scores have, plenty to incorporate into this much larger 2nd outing!

    Over and out!!
    x.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,173
    You don't need John Barry to have a Barry score. Michael Giacchino has proved himself as perfectly capable to craft an excellent memorable Bondesque score.

    An homage to the "007" theme.


    An homage to "Capsule in Space."


    An homage to "Bond sneaking around Auric Enterprises."


    and lastly some action music.


    Awards mean nothing to Bond. Newman's score was average. Bond music shouldn't be average. Get a composer who understands the Bond sound, not someone who ignores it and has to be forced to incorporate the JB theme.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,120
    I didn't say hack composer...I said hack Bond composer which naturally I'm entitled to think if I'm once again overwhelming unimpressed with his Bond work.
    However, like I mentioned I'm looking forward to what he gives us and i'm hoping he does a great job. I havn't written him off as a no-hoper. If he does have a brief then here's hoping it's a blueprint for capturing the Bond sound and makes use of the title theme as well as the Bond theme in full. Best of luck to the chap. I hope he doesn't cock it up.
  • Posts: 501
    MrEon wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    People seem to be certain that Newman is going to knock it out of the park for SP. I hope they're right but at the same time I think expectations maybe too high on their part because if he delivers another SF, then the man as far as I'm convinced is rendered a hack Bond composer and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a Bond movie ever again. But I'm getting ahead of myself. I sincerely look forward to his work and hope its much much MUCH better than what he delivered for SF.

    A Hack composer!? Hey...11 oscar nods, and countless others! And a bafta win on SkyFall!

    Newman is about as musically capably as a real composer gets! Able to write via a pen and manuscript, and not relaying on a Mac!? To be able to play, arrange/conduct his compositions!
    And as you guys write him off, his working his butt off crating a Score fit for this film! Bond is not ever going to have John Barry write for us again...and sadly, as we all know why!
    And really, John had the chance to score other Bond films after The Living Daylights, but turned them down, so get over it!
    We all love what John gave us, and my goodness his contributions to Bond and film is general is beyond words, but what if Lalo Schifirin had scored mid sixties Bond, or Jerry Goldsmith, we'd be in a different place? And in some ways I'd wish the composing duties had been passed about more over the years! It's a tough tough job composing, and especially when there's such a legacy like with the Bond musical scores. George, Marvin, Bill, Michael and Eric all had a go, and all put in great shifts for there eras! David Arnold of course stayed longer than the others, and got some right old slagging for ripping off JB? Did he, or does a screaming brass section, lush strings and high end woodwind only belong to Barry!?
    But in a year where we've lost the likes of James Horner, a composer in the mould of Newman, a composer who is somewhat old school, able to write black notes on a page, and conduct those notes standing in front of a 100+ peice orchestra, that's real talent, real skill and right know, the man charged with ripping up the road with composing for Spectre, a Bond film which has all the elements you've all been wanting from the Craig era!
    Tom has a brief which will surprise many on this mission, and having the legacy the Bond scores have, plenty to incorporate into this much larger 2nd outing!

    Over and out!!
    x.

    tumblr_inline_niji3jMUqm1rnbe7i.gif

    Couldn't agree more. I don't like Arnold's scores that much. He's trying to be someone he's not. Pretty much like so many young composers are trying to imitate Hans Zimmer. I'd take Eric Serra's soundtrack over almost any of Arnold's any day. I like more what he's doing for the TV series Sherlock than anything he's ever done for Bond.

    No one can be John Barry. It's better for us to understand that.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Listening to Skyfall I am also not sure whether Newman can deliver an uplifting score. People can all what they want about Arnold, but the man brought some soundtracks that some distinct thematic and Bond sound. Newman delivered something that was kind of bland and boring, too much on the background and forgettable.

    In his defense, the track "Komodo Dragon" was quite intriguing as it incorporated both the Bond theme and Adele's Skyfall. It worked really well with the score. However, someone here on the discussion board said that Newman didn't compose this himself, but it was done by an assistant. Does anyone what the story exactly was? It this is true we can only hope the particular chap is back on board as well.

    Yes that's true. Newman refused to incorporate Adele's theme in his 'masterpiece' (utterly forgetable) score until EON basically forced him to include it. He was 'too busy' to do it himself so got one of his arrangers to do it for him. The result is one of the few highlights in Newman's otherwise very bland score
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'll personally take Newman any day of the week and twice on Sunday compared to Arnold, who if we are talking about 'hack' Bond composers, is as close to one as we've got in the franchise, despite his improvement for CR/QoS.

    Having said that, I'll take Giacchino over both of them in a second.
  • edited July 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Well, as you point out, Arnold did improve (a lot) and by CR and QoS I thought he was actually doing pretty decent scores. I agree he's not the best out there but surely both CR and QoS are better than Newman's SF score?
    Totally agree EON should aim higher though. Sadly Mendes comes with baggage.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2015 Posts: 23,883
    There are elements of the SF score that I really prefer to anything Arnold has ever done on Bond. However the SF score was admittedly light on orchestra, and we know that the musical budget was cut back for that film compared to QoS (I'm not sure how much was allotted to Adele and even how much time Newman had to pull it together). If there was a budget issue/constraint, then I understand why he recycled Arnold's Bond theme work from CR for the DB5 scene (why reproduce it when a perfectly good composition already exists, especially since it is a throwback scene).

    So I think it is only in his sophomore outing (SP) that we will get to see what Newman can do. From watching these trailers (irrespective of who did the music) it looks like EON will ensure that Newman has time to give us a great score........as they appear to be channeling/evoking OHMSS which arguably is Barry's best.
  • Posts: 11,425
    If anyone can point me in the direction of a memorable Newman theme then I'd feel slightly reassured. However, on the evidence of what's been posted here I am just expecting a lot more bland background music. Not a total disaster but very much a missed opportunity.
  • Posts: 3,164
    The guy who cut the trailer confirmed on Twitter that the score was indeed Jeff Pfeifer ( of Pfeifer Broz) and that it was specially recorded.


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  • Posts: 11,425
    It was pretty obvious the trailer score had been nowhere near the dead hand of Newman - it was far too interesting to have come from him. Plus he would never have referenced OHMSS unless forced to at gunpoint.
  • Posts: 501
    Getafix wrote: »
    If anyone can point me in the direction of a memorable Newman theme then I'd feel slightly reassured. However, on the evidence of what's been posted here I am just expecting a lot more bland background music. Not a total disaster but very much a missed opportunity.



    And this scene from Skyfall, the score in this scene is perfect.



    And the pts score was also magnificent
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,120
    Lol yeah the Pfeifer Bros definitely have a better understanding of the Bond sound aesthetic more so than what Newman's displayed.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    0iker0 wrote: »
    And this scene from Skyfall, the score in this scene is perfect.



    And the pts score was also magnificent

    My problem with the Newman score for SF is that the individual tracks feel quite disparate, lacking some thematic cohesion. If you take the Tennyson track above and place it next to, 'New Digs', or 'Shanghai Drive, or 'Voluntary Retirement', they feel to me like they could be from different scores. I like it when a Bond soundtrack has a distinctive tone to it. Barry did it so well, because the theme and the score were unified, with variations dotted throughout the film. I understand Newman can't/won't incorporate the theme into his score in such a way, but it's still feasible for him to create his SP theme/s. Arnold did it with QoS adeptly imo.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Exactly. And he doesn't have the ability to do it either.
  • Posts: 501
    They're not disconnected. They suit the scene they're in. I couldn't imagine Skyfall with a better score. You say that I have to take Tennyson and place it next to New Digs or Shanghai Drive or Voluntary Retirement. Scenes, and/or tracks, that are not close in the movie or in the score album. They're not meant to be played in that order. It looses its meaning. It's as if I wanted to skip a part of a movie, or a chapter in a book. This score tells a story, a story which evolves.

    And Arnold's only good score for Bond is Casino Royale, QoS was not so great.

    And to doubt about the ability of Thomas Newman, one of the best composers around, is as close to blasphemy as one could get. His scores are unmistakeable, iconic, special. He has his own sound. And works great with the Bond sound.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    Exactly. And he doesn't have the ability to do it either.
    I'm not too sure about that. I find all this criticism of Newman excessive, given he's only had one shot at Bond.

    From my perspective, he delivered a perfectly adequate score. Not brilliant, but there were elements of excellence in it from my point of view (the above Tennyson track, New Diggs, The Chimera, the brilliant and all to short lived Severine, and Shanghai Drive, along with the pretitles score which was very Bondian to me).

    Music and composing is a creative endeavor. Like all things creative, I personally appreciate and respect reinterpretation and new conceptualization, as opposed to inferior imitation. I don't wear a replica Omega for a reason, and I did not like (for the most part) Brosnan's amalgam of Connery/Moore for a reason. I liked Moore's reinterpretation of Bond because it was a new take. I like Craig because he too brings something new to the table imho. Same with Dalton. Similarly, with the Bond composers, I think Martin did it best outside of Barry (he did not attempt to ape or hack Barry, but reinterpreted the Bond sound for LALD). I liked Hamlisch in the same way that I like Newman (moments of absolute brilliance in the TSWLM score but it was inconsistent). I find it telling that many here find Arnold's Night at the Opera (QoS) and African Rundown (CR) to be his best work, and those are both direct copies of Barry's style. From my point of view, outside of those tracks and maybe a few more, he was a terrible Bond composer - what he brought of his own to the table was not up to par imho.

    It's interesting that the comparisons here are between Arnold's 5th shot (QoS) and Newman's first, especially when Newman had less budget than Arnold did.

    As I've said numerous times here, I think it is appropriate at this juncture to wait for SP before slamming Newman further. If he disappoints with this film, then by all means, slam away.
  • RC7RC7
    edited July 2015 Posts: 10,512
    0iker0 wrote: »
    They're not disconnected. They suit the scene they're in. I couldn't imagine Skyfall with a better score. You say that I have to take Tennyson and place it next to New Digs or Shanghai Drive or Voluntary Retirement. Scenes, and/or tracks, that are not close in the movie or in the score album. They're not meant to be played in that order. It looses its meaning. It's as if I wanted to skip a part of a movie, or a chapter in a book. This score tells a story, a story which evolves.

    And Arnold's only good score for Bond is Casino Royale, QoS was not so great.

    And to doubt about the ability of Thomas Newman, one of the best composers around, is as close to blasphemy as one could get. His scores are unmistakeable, iconic, special. He has his own sound. And works great with the Bond sound.

    I didn't say disconnected, I said disparate and lacking thematic cohesion. Whether they tell the story is open to interpretation, but my point is that you could listen to a Barry score, OHMSS, TLD, GF, what have you - and cherry pick several moments from various points in the movie and know which film it is by the tone, style and thematic cues. That's what I love about Bond scores and that's personally what I would like to see from Newman in SP. It's as important as any of the other tropes in the series. The framework is there, what the composer chooses to do within that framework is up to them. Even for those who berate Serra's GE, it's undeniable that it has a strong aural language to it. I don't see that in SF.

  • Posts: 4,540
    its in interesting scenario where a different composer is used for the trailer and produces something that is actually preferred to the main score. The trailer score seems to have received an overall positive response (there are obvioulsy those who differ), I can already see in Nov fans using the trailer score on the actual movie. As an OHMSS fan, its sooo easy to win me over.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I personally prefer the teaser trailer music to what was used for the full blown recent trailer, except for the inclusion of OHMSS. It will be very difficult for Newman to top that I'll admit......after all, we're talking about Barry's best here, which still evokes incredible nostalgia for Bond's greatest composer bar none.

    Having said that, I actually preferred hearing it in that Incredibles teaster that M_Balje posted above.
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