SPECTRE Leaks Discussion (allowed on ONLY this thread) MAJOR PLOTLINE SPOILERS!

16364666869112

Comments

  • Posts: 9,400
    I absolutely love the trailer and the more I watch stuff the more I feel bond 25 is really going to be bond vs Blofeld which in my opinion Bond 25 should be Blofeld

    Thoughts
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,487
    He will be back for 25, but doubt that will be the title. Just my thoughts.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Lets hope Craig comes back and he's not replaced by joe the Xerox copier guy in Barbara brocccolis office
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,487
    Lets hope Craig comes back and he's not replaced by joe the Xerox copier guy in Barbara brocccolis office

    Unless he is the best option of course. Do you have a picture? Or a xerox copy of his ass or something?
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Not my area of expertise
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,487
    Good to know. For your parents too.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 32
    antovolk wrote: »
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    Control of mi5, global surveillance, control of British Intel. Blofeld has big plans

    We still don't know for sure ESB is in SP despite all the so called leaks.

    If anything the latest December script's clearly replaced the name Blofeld for security purposes, the November outline (before the rewrite happened) clearly mentions ESB, and here there are a couple of exchanges post the "reveal" so to say that it wouldn't make sense for it NOT to be Blofeld.

    I mean first right after Bond drops the bomb that Oberhauser was in fact adopted too and ESB is his real name, thereby subverting the twist everyone is complaining about, you wouldn't suddenly go back to calling him Oberhauser?

    And also there's this exchange later:
    M: what about Oberhauser?
    Madeleine: Oberhauser. His real name is Oberhauser.

    But yes, in the earlier October version that Gawker tore apart when the leak happened (where instead of Franz Oberhauser it was Heinrich Stockmann and he is killed by Bond at the end and the finale was around 60% different to what it is in Dec script and) the closest to get to ESB is just a quick "Herr Stockmann, Ernst, if I may" from Denbigh/C.

    I was hoping Oberhauser having his real name revealed as 'Ernest Serban' in the Dec 1st script was a retreat from the godawful half-brother thing - not to mention the apparent removal of Irma Bundt - a gag about how everyone's expecting him to be Blofeld but he isn't. Not sure why the script would need a security measure, I believe all the relevant rights had been acquired by that point, no? The half-brother thing is my biggest issue with the script, the rest are mostly structural, some occasionally lousy dialogue (par for course recently, if we're honest) and an unconvincing Bond/Madeleine relationship - but as long as Bond and Blofeld aren't in any way related, those aren't particularly serious in and of themselves.

    Fingers crossed those godawful 'Mickey Mouse' lines have been exorcised, though.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 3,164
    Xandaca wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    Control of mi5, global surveillance, control of British Intel. Blofeld has big plans

    We still don't know for sure ESB is in SP despite all the so called leaks.

    If anything the latest December script's clearly replaced the name Blofeld for security purposes, the November outline (before the rewrite happened) clearly mentions ESB, and here there are a couple of exchanges post the "reveal" so to say that it wouldn't make sense for it NOT to be Blofeld.

    I mean first right after Bond drops the bomb that Oberhauser was in fact adopted too and ESB is his real name, thereby subverting the twist everyone is complaining about, you wouldn't suddenly go back to calling him Oberhauser?

    And also there's this exchange later:
    M: what about Oberhauser?
    Madeleine: Oberhauser. His real name is Oberhauser.

    But yes, in the earlier October version that Gawker tore apart when the leak happened (where instead of Franz Oberhauser it was Heinrich Stockmann and he is killed by Bond at the end and the finale was around 60% different to what it is in Dec script and) the closest to get to ESB is just a quick "Herr Stockmann, Ernst, if I may" from Denbigh/C.

    I was hoping Oberhauser having his real name revealed as 'Ernest Serban' in the Dec 1st script was a retreat from the godawful half-brother thing - not to mention the apparent removal of Irma Bundt - a gag about how everyone's expecting him to be Blofeld but he isn't. Not sure why the script would need a security measure, I believe all the relevant rights had been acquired by that point, no? The half-brother thing is my biggest issue with the script, the rest are mostly structural, some occasionally lousy dialogue (par for course recently, if we're honest) and an unconvincing Bond/Madeleine relationship - but as long as Bond and Blofeld aren't in any way related, those aren't particularly serious in and of themselves.

    Fingers crossed those godawful 'Mickey Mouse' lines have been exorcised, though.

    Security measure - in case it leaks...so that people like us can go WTF. :P Seriously though, it's clear as day when you look at some of the dialogue mentioning Oberhauser by name after that reveal though, like that exchange above between M and Madeleine.

    And remember that in the December script (and I assume if the teaser is to go by in the film itself too), the whole half brother bit is implied since the start..so it's not exactly a twist..and we are expected to believe that he is, right until they meet - that's when the real 'twist' comes in with Bond at first being a bit like M was with Silva (a nice callback to SF), before playing his trump card and subverting the whole thing, revealing to Oberhauser for the first time that he was adopted too and his real name is Blofeld. "Who's the cuckoo now?"
  • Posts: 32
    antovolk wrote: »
    Security measure - in case it leaks...so that people like us can go WTF. :P Seriously though, it's clear as day when you look at some of the dialogue mentioning Oberhauser by name after that reveal though, like that exchange above between M and Madeleine.

    And remember that in the December script (and I assume if the teaser is to go by in the film itself too), the whole half brother bit is implied since the start..so it's not exactly a twist..and we are expected to believe that he is, right until they meet - that's when the real 'twist' comes in with Bond at first being a bit like M was with Silva (a nice callback to SF), before playing his trump card and subverting the whole thing, revealing to Oberhauser for the first time that he was adopted too and his real name is Blofeld. "Who's the cuckoo now?"

    I'm not questioning whether Oberhauser is Bond's adopted half-brother, which he obviously is... I'm just optimistically hoping he's not Blofeld.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Good to know. For your parents too.

    I don't like you

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 38,268
    I agree with the Mickey Mouse lines. In fact, while I was reading the October draft, I found quite a few lines that were either cringe worthy or appeared to have been written by a teenager.
  • Posts: 3,164
    Also another point: everyone after this teaser's either expecting there to be either a John Harrison/Khan moment "my name is ESB", or for it to be revealed a-la Star Wars "I.....am....your....adopted brother"....but here BOTH these tropes are subverted and no one yet who hasn't read the script/spoilers has managed to get that right..
  • Posts: 1,552
    Xandaca wrote: »
    I'm not questioning whether Oberhauser is Bond's adopted half-brother, which he obviously is... I'm just optimistically hoping he's not Blofeld.
    Except that Bond wasn't adopted. You can even see in the teaser that Hannes Oberhauser was only a temporary guardian, his legal guardian was Charmaine, as in the books.
  • Posts: 4,619
    antovolk wrote: »
    but here BOTH these tropes are subverted

    Can you please elaborate?
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 32
    JCRendle wrote: »
    Xandaca wrote: »
    I'm not questioning whether Oberhauser is Bond's adopted half-brother, which he obviously is... I'm just optimistically hoping he's not Blofeld.
    Except that Bond wasn't adopted. You can even see in the teaser that Hannes Oberhauser was only a temporary guardian, his legal guardian was Charmaine, as in the books.

    Yeah, I get that, just phrased my last comment badly. For one thing, it would make the graves of Bond's parents in Skyfall awfully confusing if Oberhauser hadn't adopted him!

    EDIT: Just understood you were making a different point about Charmain being the actual guardian, which I hadn't really thought about. So fair enough.
  • Posts: 3,164
    antovolk wrote: »
    but here BOTH these tropes are subverted

    Can you please elaborate?

    1. While everything seems to build from the start of the film to a "I am your half-brother" reveal, Bond subverts that by revealing to Oberhauser that he is adopted too.
    2. Bond is also the one to reveal to Oberhauser that his real name is ESB.
  • Posts: 1,552
    Unless one of their parents had an affair, the term "half-brother" is being incorrectly used here. Half-brother means that brothers that share only one biological parent, for example, they have the same mother, but different fathers (or vice versa).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,487
    Good to know. For your parents too.

    I don't like you

    Good to know. For your parents, too.
  • aaron819aaron819 Switzerland
    Posts: 1,208
    Refering to the video I posted in the production thread (scene 12)

    Zocalo Square:

    Bond manages to pull one of them off the chopper, before jumping into it himself. As it pulls away shakily it’s clear there is fighting going on.

    It’s not a stunt for the faint-hearted. The pilot, American Chuck Aaron, is the only person in the world who is able to do 360 degree flips in a helicopter.

    From here, filming moves to a site 10 hours from the city where they’re able to safely manoeuvre the helicopter away from some of the most historic buildings in Latin America.

    The internal shots will be filmed back at Pinewood studios, bringing into focus the true global scale of Bond.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,487
    Sounds magnificent, and reminiscent of FYEO. That is a good thing.
  • Posts: 9,400
    He will be back for 25, but doubt that will be the title. Just my thoughts.
    The issue here is as bland a title as Blofeld is it's clear Bond 25 will be the fight of the ages. Blofeld like Spectre is instantly recognizeable a Fleming title and works for Bond 25.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,487
    If Blofeld is in B25, they can make sure everyone knows in other ways. I am not writing it off as impossible it is the title, but think they can do better.
  • Posts: 3,164
    Now that you mention that Risico...
    What everyone's forgetting amongst all the hoolabaloo of "Blofeld is Bond's foster brother oh noooooo" is that while the organisation is in its prime in the film, this is Blofeld's origin story. He's been heading up SPECTRE all this time as Franz Oberhauser, and by the end not only does he hear for the first time that his actual name is ESB but he also gets the signature look by the end. Blofeld before he became Blofeld.
  • Posts: 9,400
    This is just a theory I could be wrong
    I also have found a strange correlation over the last 4 films

    Casino Royale the title of not only the film but the location of the finale
    Quantum of Solace title of the film bonds emotional journey and the title of the organization
    Skyfall title of not only the film but the location of the finale
    Spectre title of the film bonds emotional journey ( being haunted by specters of the past) and the title of the organization

    So bond 25 if this pattern continues is going to be also the location of the finale
    Silver Phantom
    Valley of Shadows
    Piz Gloria
    Risico
    Etc
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,487
    Or GARDEN OF DEATH?
  • Posts: 9,400
    Garden of Death Definitly could work
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,487
    Or maybe give a nod to Gardner? GARDENER OF DEATH (Never Grow Flowers)
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 4,622
    antovolk wrote: »
    Now that you mention that Risico...
    What everyone's forgetting amongst all the hoolabaloo of "Blofeld is Bond's foster brother oh noooooo" is that while the organisation is in its prime in the film, this is Blofeld's origin story. He's been heading up SPECTRE all this time as Franz Oberhauser, and by the end not only does he hear for the first time that his actual name is ESB but he also gets the signature look by the end. Blofeld before he became Blofeld.

    This is the key distinction, and those not populating this thread are not going to figure this out, until they see the film.
    That's why I think Fleming's work has not truly been abominated (may be inventing words here).
    Aunt Charmian is still orphan Bond's legal guardian. Hans Oberhuaser is still father figure, and I don't believe he has any legal status vis-a-vis Bond. Charmian is guardian.
    However, we have new material- tacked on to Fleming - Hans does also have an actual adopted son named Franz, who as it turns out, doesn't know he was adopted, and is ultimately revealed to be one Ernst Stavro Blofeld, but no actual blood relation to Bond, or even related by adoption - but he is child that knew the young Bond and kinda hated him.
    I think Eon was careful to ultimately include at least this level of separation.
    But Mendes eats this kind character drama stuff up, so that's why its there, but STILL I think we are also going to get one hell of a Bond film, with Mr. 007, with full mojo intact.
    Bond it seems is not attached to Franz at all. At best, he seems indifferent to their lameass history. The history is more Franz's obsession.
    Bond it seems, is blunt instrument, happy to do duty, and blow the nutter away.


    These may be fine distinctions, and no doubt when everyone has chimed in, post release, the debate will be heated.
    Should be interesting.

    And I do think @antovolk is correct, in that Eon has substituted for the Blofeld name in the script, for security reasons, ie in case it got leaked. Imagine such a thing. ;)

    This is an oddball way to introduce Blofeld origins, so the post-release debate will be fierce.
    Although, while I think the integrity of the OP Oberhauser story and Bond's orphan past remains intact, there is no doubt that major liberties have been taken with Fleming's Blofeld origins story, as served up in Thunderball.
    But then again, are there actual greivous contradictions, or has Eon merely expanded on the original Fleming Blofeld story?
    I'd have to go back and re-read TB. But I am not 100% sure it matters. What makes Blofeld interesting is not so much his past, not where he came from, but what he became, what he is- a monster.

    But Mendes would disagree with me, and he's not actually wrong.
    Mendes, if he is going to be party to re-introducing an iconic character such as Blofled, is going to demand a dramatic and "worthy" back story in order to fully realize the character.

    Even back in the '60s, the original filmmakers attitude was essentially, if you want the backstory to these mega-villains, go read the books, we are not going to dwell in the movies.
  • Posts: 3,164
    The fact that in the December version Oberhauser's arc is indeed Blofeld origins as opposed to the October version which is like - oh just some nut named Stockmann who's actually Franz Oberhauser i.e. the 'reveal' being in fact the whole foster brother angle and Franz Oberhauser as the real name - as opposed to being built up as Franz Oberhauser and subverted here by Bond with "but you were adopted too" and the ESB reveal - makes this a whole lot more interesting AND, with Bond leaving Blofeld to live and put into MI6 custody, leaves doors open for B25 very nicely.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 38,268
    It's kind of funny watching all these people come up with these wild and different theories...when in reality, Oberhauser is Blofeld. The end.
Sign In or Register to comment.