Skyfall Questions (Spoilers)

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  • For anyone who has seen the movie.

    What was the reason for the word game scene when the man ask bond skyfall and bond says done.I know bonds family owned the estate skyfall but what was the point of the word game when he says done.what does done mean.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited March 2013 Posts: 40,474
    @Bryan_Brandon_, it means he is done playing the word association game. He doesn't want to discuss his past history, including Skyfall lodge.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    For anyone who has seen the movie.

    What was the reason for the word game scene when the man ask bond skyfall and bond says done.I know bonds family owned the estate skyfall but what was the point of the word game when he says done.what does done mean.

    The test was just about testing Bond's psychology. They wanted to examine how he reacted to certain key words, and for him 'Skyfall' was a direct connection to his past, and he says "done" because he doesn't want to talk about it.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @thelivingroyale, I don't believe it's ever confirmed, but I'd say it's a number of things: phone calls, credit card purchases, perhaps pictures of them going by cameras or something. Just a mixture of things that Silva could trace back (which makes it likely that it was credit card usage or phone calls) to Bond with ease. He hacked MI6, I'm sure he could do this just as easily.

    I have to watch it again, but I got the impression it was a fake GPS track, it can be seen in the map when Mallory finds out.
  • Sandy wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @thelivingroyale, I don't believe it's ever confirmed, but I'd say it's a number of things: phone calls, credit card purchases, perhaps pictures of them going by cameras or something. Just a mixture of things that Silva could trace back (which makes it likely that it was credit card usage or phone calls) to Bond with ease. He hacked MI6, I'm sure he could do this just as easily.

    I have to watch it again, but I got the impression it was a fake GPS track, it can be seen in the map when Mallory finds out.

    This gets back to a back-and-forth that I had with a member here around the time of SF's release. After trading several posts we came to the respectful conclusion that SF was not the "style" of film that he liked while it was one that I did like. At first he thought it was a badly-made film but then he conceded that it was just more subtle than he liked.

    For example, it really bothered him that they didn't show Bond getting out of the water before he went to Skyfall's chapel. To me, it was fine that they showed him illuminate and find the hole in the ice with the flare. But for this other person, it wasn't enough - without a shot of Bond actually crawling out of the hole, he said "But *how* did Bond get out of the water?".

    To me, the "breadcrumbs" scene is similar - we know that Q is leaving clues for Silva to find because he says that's what he's doing. How would it make it any better for him to say what they are? We could bog down the film with long explanations of everything but sometimes it doesn't add anything. I mean, it's not like we cut straight from Bond driving M away from the inquiry to Silva attacking SF...

  • RC7RC7
    edited March 2013 Posts: 10,512
    I agree @thelordflasheart that it doesn't need explaining. The simple fact is that to explain it would be so utterly boring and show up the fact that it's a bit of bollocks anyway. It's one of those devices that is used time and time again, my main problem is that the whole hacker-computer genius guff is in itself a bit of a trip-wire throughout the film. The Joker's exploits in TDK are much easier to accept because they're not couched in faux techno crap. I really wish we weren't asked to buy into Silva's digital omnipotence, I obviously get the symbolic reasoning, but ironically it just feels so old fashioned to me.
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 2,015
    RC7 wrote:
    I agree @thelordflasheart that it doesn't need explaining. The simple fact is that to explain it would be so utterly boring and show up the fact that it's a bit of bollocks anyway.

    When TND was released, GPS was still not available for the general public, hence the "lengthy" explanations of what it is in the movie. And yet in my opinion, they managed to do it in a rather not boring way.

    On the paper, a communication satellite posing as a military one to distort the GPS without being noticed sounds as "bogus" as Silva's premonitory hacking skills, but on screen it feels ok and even quite "clever" IMO in TND, while the "guess the password" in SF looks a bit weird.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    Have people here seen Ben Affleck's Daredevil? Like SF, I wasn't particularly keen on it. Then at the behest of a friend I got the Director's Cut which actually made me a fan of the film. I think one of the main things wrong with Daredevil's theatrical cut is similar to SF- it was sabotaged by the apparent need to include a love making scene that had no real place in the movie. It was awkward, and skewed the actual relationship between Daredevil & Elektra for the sake of an obligatory boink. In SF, shagging Severine was not only off-putting to me, it made Silva's killing of her SO telegraphed that I felt Bond was a dope (at best) for not seeing it coming more than I did.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,474
    @thelordflasheart, I can agree with that, I was just trying to answer someone's question. If that was the case, how did Bond and M arrive at Scotland if we didn't see them actually drive the entire time?

    It's textbook object permanence: just because we can't see it, it doesn't mean it still isn't existing and moving.
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    Posts: 2,057
    Not a question, but something I have just noticed for the first time, having seen the movie a dozen or more times.

    Bond's entrance into the Shanghai skyscraper mirrors his entrance into the Turkish room at the beginning of the movie, right down to his walk, the dead body and the score. Both times on his way to a confrontation with Patrice.

    Damn, it really is a movie with multiple layers.
  • Mallory wrote:
    Not a question, but something I have just noticed for the first time, having seen the movie a dozen or more times.

    Bond's entrance into the Shanghai skyscraper mirrors his entrance into the Turkish room at the beginning of the movie, right down to his walk, the dead body and the score. Both times on his way to a confrontation with Patrice.

    Damn, it really is a movie with multiple layers.

    LOL, watch the SF bashers complain that this is further proof how bad the film was - "Look, they're so unoriginal that they didn't just copy other Bond films, they copied a scene from the same film! It's so insulting!!!"

  • Posts: 1,407
    Mallory wrote:
    Not a question, but something I have just noticed for the first time, having seen the movie a dozen or more times.

    Bond's entrance into the Shanghai skyscraper mirrors his entrance into the Turkish room at the beginning of the movie, right down to his walk, the dead body and the score. Both times on his way to a confrontation with Patrice.

    Damn, it really is a movie with multiple layers.

    I noticed that on my third viewing and thought it was brilliant. Great stuff

    And yes @thelordflasheart, unfortunately some people can't let people enjoy anything. Oh well
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 2,015
    bondbat007 wrote:
    I noticed that on my third viewing and thought it was brilliant. Great stuff

    And yes @thelordflasheart, unfortunately some people can't let people enjoy anything. Oh well

    Well, I'm not part of the "SF is brilliant" category, and yet I noticed such things, but this actually distracted me as I found all this a bit too self conscious, and well, not so subtle.

    To your remark, one can add that there is though a strong difference between both scenes : the first scene is the "close shaved / ear-piece - I obey to MI6" Bond, though the other one is the "not shaved / no ear-piece - I'm on my own" Bond. In the first scene, the ear-piece is very easy to see on the screen, it's so blatant IMO that it means they want us to understand all this.

    Then, once he's shaven, the ear-piece is back again instantly (but this time you don't see it on screen for credibility reason - everyone in the casino would see the earpiece from the PTS... -, but you keep on hearing lots of Eve/Bond dialog so we're sure not to miss it). But only for a few moments, as he drops it in Eve's glass for no real reason. It doesn't prevent her from saving Bond at the last moment a few minutes after though, it's for me one of the cases when symbolism (of the ear-piece) is handled before the coherency of the story (Eve remains as efficient as if they had kept on being aware of each other's whereabouts with the earpieces).

    Then in the end, we have strong emphasis in the dialog they should not rely on any piece of electronics in order to fight Silva. Even if that means that a Q gadgets-laden DB5 has then specifically no such tracking device, which is quite paradoxal from a "coherency" point of view (even the GF DB5 had a "GPS" !), but from the symbolic point of view , it means "let's handle this as in a Fleming book : no earpieces, no phone cells, just good old rifles and knifes" !
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    Well, I'm not part of the "SF is brilliant" category
    Skyfall, like Star Trek 2: Wrath Of Khan was brilliant nonsense. Just turn your analytical mind off & enjoy the show.
  • chrisisall wrote:
    Well, I'm not part of the "SF is brilliant" category
    Skyfall, like Star Trek 2: Wrath Of Khan was brilliant nonsense. Just turn your analytical mind off & enjoy the show.
    I find SF heavy on symbolism, on the contrary, it's not supposed to be nonsensical at all.

    A "brilliant nonsense" scene for me is for instance when Bond learns the lair of the villain from the mouth of a parrot in FYEO. If it had been in a Hitchcock movie it would have been a cult scene I'm pretty sure.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    I find SF heavy on symbolism
    *yawn*
    Okay. And what movies aren't? It's kind of a staple of film-making.
  • chrisisall wrote:
    *yawn*
    Okay. And what movies aren't? It's kind of a staple of film-making.
    All those who have no symbolism (well, FYEO to quote the latest one named), and all those who successfully use it (off of the top of my head, the Birds).

    I'm not bilingual in English, so I'm not sure, but in case you read "movie grammar" when I write "symbolism", I really don't mean, I mean the first sense of "symbolism" in French at least (example : wearing an ear-piece vs not wearing one to emphasize - a bit too much to my own taste - obeying vs deciding on his own).

    SF is not heavy on movie grammar, either IMO. We've got only one point of view, no flashback, etc...


  • edited March 2013 Posts: 33
    Some very droll and amusing comments here and I'm one of those who tends to not be all that critical. Anyway, these might have been covered already but, for me only a couple of things jinked in the movie. I do love Bond's run with the Tennyson quote but shouldn't he have been advised by Q of Silva's disguise thereby enabling him/them to forewarn/update Tanner etc, etc. The scene with Q hacking into Silva's program and we see a 3 dimensional labyrinth of symbols and numbers uncoiling and reforming and Bond (mind you) says go in there, freeze that. Yea, we've seen it hundreds of times with security cameras - can you play that back etc, etc. We were all there, that visual was mindboggling - as Q says it's like trying to solve a Rubics Cube that's fighting back. Last but not least, 007 with the gun at Skyfall. As the helo approaches. Why did he open fire so soon ? Shouldn't he have waited till it came in closer, reconned from the shadows ( they don't know he isn't dead ) and spotted the heavy calibre gun and known that the rotors would have been a perfect target - now that it's closer! Even when it landed we see a small window open of an ideal group shot where the guys approach - but 007 pauses etc, etc.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited March 2013 Posts: 40,474
    @LeQueux, I'm confused: are you asking if Q should have warned Bond about Silva's disguise? Bond knew almost as soon as Q knew. I'm sure Q said nothing to Tanner because the former thought it would be foolish to keep M in the meeting.

    Why would they surmise that Bond isn't dead, irrelevant of their distance to SF? They set up the breadcrumbs so Silva could trace them to the location; he knows they're both alive. I'm sure the main reason - aside from being able to transport them a lot faster - that Silva went with the chopper is so he and his men can block the exits on the ground and let the chopper rip through the lodge with devastating power. Whether Bond revealed himself or not, he was probably going to do that, anyway.

    I do agree, though, that Bond should have waited a while to get a better shot. If the rifles are scattered throughout and you know you don't have the time to get a new gun, why fire from such a distance?
  • Posts: 33
    Creasy, if I remember correctly the first wave on foot are taken out. Then Bond check's for Silva, he's not there. Late to the party, he's with the second wave, but he isn't aware if Bond survived, untill Bond start's firing at the helo!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,474
    Wow, totally had a warp in events and completely understand your questioning of whether Bond was alive or not (in Silva's eyes). Apologies! I do understand now.
  • I would say Silva would have some form of communication to his first team of men that went in from the ground. With no reply from them, one could assume Bond is still very much alive. ;)
  • RC7RC7
    edited March 2013 Posts: 10,512
    LeQueux wrote:
    Creasy, if I remember correctly the first wave on foot are taken out. Then Bond check's for Silva, he's not there. Late to the party, he's with the second wave, but he isn't aware if Bond survived, untill Bond start's firing at the helo!

    There are a few anomalies like this that make Bond seem rather incompetent.

    I surmise that in an earlier draft it was probably just a singular attack, split in two when Mendes decided to go all GF with the DB5.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited March 2013 Posts: 28,694
    RC7 wrote:
    LeQueux wrote:
    Creasy, if I remember correctly the first wave on foot are taken out. Then Bond check's for Silva, he's not there. Late to the party, he's with the second wave, but he isn't aware if Bond survived, untill Bond start's firing at the helo!

    There are a few anomalies like this that make Bond seem rather incompetent.

    How does that make Bond "seem" incompetent?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote:
    LeQueux wrote:
    Creasy, if I remember correctly the first wave on foot are taken out. Then Bond check's for Silva, he's not there. Late to the party, he's with the second wave, but he isn't aware if Bond survived, untill Bond start's firing at the helo!

    There are a few anomalies like this that make Bond seem rather incompetent.

    How does that make Bond "seem" incompetent?

    I'm referring to him giving away his position immediately. Very stealthy!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    RC7 wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    LeQueux wrote:
    Creasy, if I remember correctly the first wave on foot are taken out. Then Bond check's for Silva, he's not there. Late to the party, he's with the second wave, but he isn't aware if Bond survived, untill Bond start's firing at the helo!

    There are a few anomalies like this that make Bond seem rather incompetent.

    How does that make Bond "seem" incompetent?

    I'm referring to him giving away his position immediately. Very stealthy!
    What do you mean give away his position? Silva knows he is at Skyfall, so his position was already known anyway.
  • He could have waited until Silva had landed until firing at the chopper, but then again, I think Silva intended on attacking Skyfall while still airbourne, which is a partial reason for coming in over ground, which has already been stated.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    LeQueux wrote:
    Creasy, if I remember correctly the first wave on foot are taken out. Then Bond check's for Silva, he's not there. Late to the party, he's with the second wave, but he isn't aware if Bond survived, untill Bond start's firing at the helo!

    There are a few anomalies like this that make Bond seem rather incompetent.

    How does that make Bond "seem" incompetent?

    I'm referring to him giving away his position immediately. Very stealthy!
    What do you mean give away his position? Silva knows he is at Skyfall, so his position was already known anyway.

    Firing off out of a window. As was debated above, Silva doesn't know for sure if Bond is alive or dead. Either way, just seems a bit trigger happy on Bond's part.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    RC7 wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    LeQueux wrote:
    Creasy, if I remember correctly the first wave on foot are taken out. Then Bond check's for Silva, he's not there. Late to the party, he's with the second wave, but he isn't aware if Bond survived, untill Bond start's firing at the helo!

    There are a few anomalies like this that make Bond seem rather incompetent.

    How does that make Bond "seem" incompetent?

    I'm referring to him giving away his position immediately. Very stealthy!
    What do you mean give away his position? Silva knows he is at Skyfall, so his position was already known anyway.

    Firing off out of a window. As was debated above, Silva doesn't know for sure if Bond is alive or dead. Either way, just seems a bit trigger happy on Bond's part.

    But Bond knew Silva was in the chopper (because he was blaring the music and making an entrance) so he took the opportunity to try and shoot it out of the air. That doesn't seem incompetent to me, and I likely would have done the same.
  • RC7RC7
    edited March 2013 Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    LeQueux wrote:
    Creasy, if I remember correctly the first wave on foot are taken out. Then Bond check's for Silva, he's not there. Late to the party, he's with the second wave, but he isn't aware if Bond survived, untill Bond start's firing at the helo!

    There are a few anomalies like this that make Bond seem rather incompetent.

    How does that make Bond "seem" incompetent?

    I'm referring to him giving away his position immediately. Very stealthy!
    What do you mean give away his position? Silva knows he is at Skyfall, so his position was already known anyway.

    Firing off out of a window. As was debated above, Silva doesn't know for sure if Bond is alive or dead. Either way, just seems a bit trigger happy on Bond's part.

    But Bond knew Silva was in the chopper (because he was blaring the music and making an entrance) so he took the opportunity to try and shoot it out of the air. That doesn't seem incompetent to me, and I likely would have done the same.

    To which you could argue incompetence on the part of a hot-shot marksman, as evidenced by his shooting session with Kincade. Anyway, let's not clog this thread up anymore. I have stated there are a few instances of his incompetence before, only to be met by the SF Stasi attempting to show me the error of my ways. It's just the way I see it, I don't need anymore lectures on my opinion.

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