Does NO TIME TO DIE have the best ending in the franchise?

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  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,255
    peter wrote: »
    I love it, including James Bond’s resurrection, as told by Madeleine in stories, to Bond’s child (he will actually becomes something “bigger” in his death. He will become a myth).

    You are reading way too much into that ending mate, and giving the writers far too much credit as well. That ending was a throwaway scene, something cobbled on, tacked on at the end to try and make sense at something which they all knew deep down they shouldn't be doing.

    It was cheap and gimmicky, made even worse by tacking on the OHMSS song to it, probably to try and keep the older Bond fans on side by throwing in a retro nod to cover up the horror they were unleashing onto long term fans of the series.

    This was again reaffirmed with the `James Bond will be back' at the end of the credits.

    @jetsetwilly , thanks for reading into the subtext of the script for me! You're probably right! Even though people complain that the death was planned, and that's what makes the ending to NTTD lazy, you're probably correct that it was lazily tacked on instead!!! Your script analysis has changed my mind entirely!

    I recant: NTTD's ending was lazy and stupid and cobbled together!! And screw Daniel Craig (just for good measure).

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    peter wrote: »
    I love it, including James Bond’s resurrection, as told by Madeleine in stories, to Bond’s child (he will actually becomes something “bigger” in his death. He will become a myth).

    You are reading way too much into that ending mate, and giving the writers far too much credit as well. That ending was a throwaway scene, something cobbled on, tacked on at the end to try and make sense at something which they all knew deep down they shouldn't be doing.

    It was cheap and gimmicky, made even worse by tacking on the OHMSS song to it, probably to try and keep the older Bond fans on side by throwing in a retro nod to cover up the horror they were unleashing onto long term fans of the series.

    This was again reaffirmed with the `James Bond will be back' at the end of the credits.

    James Bond is dead and won't be back.
    Until a reboot.
  • Posts: 3,275
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I love it, including James Bond’s resurrection, as told by Madeleine in stories, to Bond’s child (he will actually becomes something “bigger” in his death. He will become a myth).

    You are reading way too much into that ending mate, and giving the writers far too much credit as well. That ending was a throwaway scene, something cobbled on, tacked on at the end to try and make sense at something which they all knew deep down they shouldn't be doing.

    It was cheap and gimmicky, made even worse by tacking on the OHMSS song to it, probably to try and keep the older Bond fans on side by throwing in a retro nod to cover up the horror they were unleashing onto long term fans of the series.

    This was again reaffirmed with the `James Bond will be back' at the end of the credits.

    @jetsetwilly , thanks for reading into the subtext of the script for me! You're probably right! Even though people complain that the death was planned, and that's what makes the ending to NTTD lazy, you're probably correct that it was lazily tacked on instead!!! Your script analysis has changed my mind entirely!

    You're welcome.

    B-)
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    I wish Bond had ended up in yellow dingy with Paloma at the end of NTTD. Now that would have been the best ending of the franchise
  • edited June 2023 Posts: 3,275
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I wish Bond had ended up in yellow dingy with Paloma at the end of NTTD. Now that would have been the best ending of the franchise

    Absolutely! With no Madeline or kid in tow either, or a female 007. Oh yes, and Bond escapes with a wounded head after killing Blofeld in his castle, not Safin.

    I know its what has been down a million times before, but its what audiences come to expect. Give the fans what they want, send them home happy after leaving the cinema.

    Take a leaf out of Top Gun Maverick or Ted Lasso's book. Life doesn't have to be all doom and gloom, with naff shock endings.
  • Posts: 2,753
    Love it or hate it, I can't deny that it's one of the most interesting endings of the series. I highly doubt we'll ever see it happen again.

    Personally, I'm in the camp that prefers not to see Bond die in general. James Bond as a character often makes mistakes and has to overcome obstacles which he struggles with. Compared to a character like, say, Jack Reacher, Bond isn't usually even the smartest or strongest person in the room. He often doesn't know how he'll get out of situations and has to use his wits. I do think that one of the character's most enduring and even human qualities is that he always able to get out of these situations he faces, to save the day despite him being the underdog. Perhaps it's one of the many reasons why NTTD's ending doesn't do much for me.

    But that said, it's a first for the series and NTTD is a different kind of Bond film anyway. I'm glad it means we'll have the slate wiped clean going forward too.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    The emotional aspects of the ending have certainly lessened with each subsequent viewing (though the OHMSS track will always get me) but it's certainly one of the most unique endings in the series and one of the more distinct installments in the series, given just how many iconic and big characters they manage to kill off. It's a bit too much for my tastes.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited June 2023 Posts: 4,416
    Brother thing at them in corner. From moment Blofeld returns and new villian introduced you expect Blofeld kild him as gift for his brother. Felix going to help Bond. So kill them earlier to kill that option. Mabey Paloma can saved him with M his car when it turn in to airplane (Tmwtgg reference) or just have parashute (Die Another day like) with Goldfinger ending. That have been very funny we finaly DC Bond end the kissing the girl but we don.'t see it. Bond: I will you learn more training.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited June 2023 Posts: 2,898
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I wish Bond had ended up in yellow dingy with Paloma at the end of NTTD. Now that would have been the best ending of the franchise
    Paloma going rogue from the CIA and turning up on Safin's island using ninja assassin skills to get revenge for Felix? Forget realistic and grounded for a minute - count me in, dude! :D
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    Venutius wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I wish Bond had ended up in yellow dingy with Paloma at the end of NTTD. Now that would have been the best ending of the franchise
    Paloma going rogue from the CIA and turning up on Safin's island using ninja assassin skills to get revenge for Felix? Forget realistic and grounded for a minute - count me in, dude! :D

    Anything to get more Paloma in NTTD mate 😅
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    I keep wondering if Paloma was so beloved because she didn't linger for too long and had a perfect role or if the film could've been even stronger if she starred outside of Cuba. She's one of the best Bond girls of Craig's era, no question.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Less is more, some would say.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I keep wondering if Paloma was so beloved because she didn't linger for too long and had a perfect role or if the film could've been even stronger if she starred outside of Cuba. She's one of the best Bond girls of Craig's era, no question.

    This is a great point to be fair.
    I loved Paloma (partly because of my crush on Ana) but her character was charming and fun, rather than heavy with baggage from previous films or weighed down with misplaced attempt at character development.
    Paloma was just a kick ass Bond girl, not afraid to be sexy but still a serious capable ally to Bond.
    Her character was almost like a throwback
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    Her beauty and personality is definitely palpable, makes her incredibly ripe to play a Bond girl, but she certainly does offer a rather playful aside to an otherwise depressing and dark Bond film. She might've felt out of place otherwise if she lingered any longer.

    Great post there, @Jordo007, she definitely felt like an almost out-of-place throwback, one I really enjoyed.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,255
    Considering they created her character in later drafts, and considering Ana was called into the cast quite late in the game, I think the character was perfect in this sequence; it was done well and left the audience wanting more. However, if she played a larger role, I’m just not sure there’s enough meat on the bone for the character to remain interesting, as written. She didn’t over stay her welcome. It was executed brilliantly. Anything more and I fear the character would have got thinner and thinner….
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    peter wrote: »
    Considering they created her character in later drafts, and considering Ana was called into the cast quite late in the game, I think the character was perfect in this sequence; it was done well and left the audience wanting more. However, if she played a larger role, I’m just not sure there’s enough meat on the bone for the character to remain interesting, as written. She didn’t over stay her welcome. It was executed brilliantly. Anything more and I fear the character would have got thinner and thinner….

    Yeah it's true, I'm surprised how well written Paloma is given how late her character was added to the production, maybe because it was written with Ana in mind, perhaps it was easier to write for?

    Thanks @Creasy47
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    IIRC, the role for Paloma was originally going to be Leiter meeting Bond in Cuba, but Fukunaga decided to replace Leiter with a new character.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited June 2023 Posts: 2,898
    Less may well be more and not outstaying her welcome could well explain Paloma's near-universal approval ratings. She was perfectly realised and, yes, good point, Creasy47: a classic throwback. She definitely leaves you wanting more, though - Ana as Paloma was just utterly adorable from first glance to last. Eh? What do you mean 'simp'? ;)
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited June 2023 Posts: 13,882
    Well, I wouldn't divorce Lacey Chabert for her, but I will say that she was one of the all too few highlights of NTTD.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    I never knew that. As much as I love Paloma, seeing Bond and Leiter team up like that would've been incredibly exciting. It would've added weight to his eventual death on the boat as well.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    I actually liked what we did get with them going to a club having drinks and enjoying themselves. That was something I had wanted to see in these films for a very long time, especially with Craig and Wright after how QOS kept them apart except for one scene. I definitely would have liked a lot more of them, but having Paloma wasn’t a bad alternative either.
  • I felt more of a genuine friendship between the two in NTTD than in a lot of the other Felix appearances.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    I felt more of a genuine friendship between the two in NTTD than in a lot of the other Felix appearances.

    Yes, they knew their characters were going to die. They bonded on camera.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    I felt more of a genuine friendship between the two in NTTD than in a lot of the other Felix appearances.

    Same here. That was the sort of closeness between the two I had been dying to see since CR.
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    Posts: 538
    Not the best. Not the worst.

    I know that this ending is controversial, and it causes people to have black-and-white opinions, but I'm perfectly comfortable in saying this is somewhere in the middle.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,948
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I felt more of a genuine friendship between the two in NTTD than in a lot of the other Felix appearances.

    Same here. That was the sort of closeness between the two I had been dying to see since CR.

    Considering the subject at hand, I find that a confusing way of wording it ;-)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,255
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I felt more of a genuine friendship between the two in NTTD than in a lot of the other Felix appearances.

    Same here. That was the sort of closeness between the two I had been dying to see since CR.

    Considering the subject at hand, I find that a confusing way of wording it ;-)

    @Creasy47 is an artist and was naturally keeping with the theme, and a play of words, @CommanderRoss ( 😂 😂 😂)
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    peter wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I felt more of a genuine friendship between the two in NTTD than in a lot of the other Felix appearances.

    Same here. That was the sort of closeness between the two I had been dying to see since CR.

    Considering the subject at hand, I find that a confusing way of wording it ;-)

    @Creasy47 is an artist and was naturally keeping with the theme, and a play of words, @CommanderRoss ( 😂 😂 😂)

    Yeahhh, I'm an artist!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,255
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I felt more of a genuine friendship between the two in NTTD than in a lot of the other Felix appearances.

    Same here. That was the sort of closeness between the two I had been dying to see since CR.

    Considering the subject at hand, I find that a confusing way of wording it ;-)

    @Creasy47 is an artist and was naturally keeping with the theme, and a play of words, @CommanderRoss ( 😂 😂 😂)

    Yeahhh, I'm an artist!

    And a poet and a gentleman, @Creasy47 😂
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    peter wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I felt more of a genuine friendship between the two in NTTD than in a lot of the other Felix appearances.

    Same here. That was the sort of closeness between the two I had been dying to see since CR.

    Considering the subject at hand, I find that a confusing way of wording it ;-)

    @Creasy47 is an artist and was naturally keeping with the theme, and a play of words, @CommanderRoss ( 😂 😂 😂)

    Yeahhh, I'm an artist!

    And a poet and a gentleman, @Creasy47 😂

    You're a gentleman yourself, @peter.
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