Cary Joji Fukunaga - Appreciation Thread

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    TripAces wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Perhaps they will also look at showrunners and TV directors who are breaking new ground with shows such as Succession; they're efficient and their series have deep layers, artistry, tone, tension and suspense, great character work.

    Team them up with a great second unit to keep the over all tone consistent and we could have tighter budget Bond films, made with workan-like efficiency, without losing action, story and character...

    Jesse Armstrong writing one could be very, very good. And I can remember a Bond nod in Succession, and a couple in Peep Show, so maybe he’s a fan.

    I'd love to see Alex Garland have a crack at writing/directing. But isn't there a separate thread for this sort of discussion? ;)

    Sure is. This is the fukunaga bashing thread.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited May 2022 Posts: 3,382
    TripAces wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Perhaps they will also look at showrunners and TV directors who are breaking new ground with shows such as Succession; they're efficient and their series have deep layers, artistry, tone, tension and suspense, great character work.

    Team them up with a great second unit to keep the over all tone consistent and we could have tighter budget Bond films, made with workan-like efficiency, without losing action, story and character...

    Jesse Armstrong writing one could be very, very good. And I can remember a Bond nod in Succession, and a couple in Peep Show, so maybe he’s a fan.

    I'd love to see Alex Garland have a crack at writing/directing. But isn't there a separate thread for this sort of discussion? ;)

    Sure is. This is the fukunaga bashing thread.

    :)) Fukunaga Appreciation Bashing Thread

    I still give him credit for his good work on True Detective.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited May 2022 Posts: 2,895
    Yes, it's awkward. Paul Haggis has been accused of a lot worse than this, so do I stop watching CR and QOS as a result? I have to say that I don't - I watch them despite knowing what Haggis is accused of. To an extent, especially as 'consumers', you can separate the art from the artist, as the old cliche goes. It made me wonder at what point do you draw the line and boycott that person's work, though? Eva Green managed to fend off and escape from Harvey Weinstein, but later worked with Roman Polanski - a man who'd drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl. When she was asked how she reconciled that to herself, Eva said 'You have to sell your soul sometimes'. Basically, she wanted to work with Polanski and that took priority for her over how she felt about what he'd done in the past. It's not a nice thought, but I guess we all make those kinds of decisions to one extent or another. When it comes down to it, Fukunaga sounds like a dick - but I'm unlikely to chuck out my copies of True Detective or NTTD.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited May 2022 Posts: 40,368
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, it's awkward. Paul Haggis has been accused of a lot worse than this, so do I stop watching CR and QOS as a result? I have to say that I don't - I watch them despite knowing what Haggis is accused of. To an extent, especially as 'consumers', you can separate the art from the artist, as the old cliche goes. It made me wonder at what point do you draw the line and boycott that person's work, though? Eva Green managed to fend off and escape from Harvey Weinstein, but later worked with Roman Polanski - a man who'd drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl. When she was asked how she reconciled that to herself, she said 'You have to sell your soul sometimes'. Basically, she wanted to work with Polanski and that took priority for her over how she felt about what he'd done in the past. It's not a nice thought, but I guess we all make those kinds of decisions to one extent or another. Fukunaga sounds like a dick - but I'm not chucking out my copies of True Detective or NTTD.

    I've said it countless times before but if we didn't watch certain films or shows because of what a particular person attached to the project was accused or guilty of, there'd be almost nothing left to enjoy anymore.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,049
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, it's awkward. Paul Haggis has been accused of a lot worse than this, so do I stop watching CR and QOS as a result? I have to say that I don't - I watch them despite knowing what Haggis is accused of. To an extent, especially as 'consumers', you can separate the art from the artist, as the old cliche goes. It made me wonder at what point do you draw the line and boycott that person's work, though? Eva Green managed to fend off and escape from Harvey Weinstein, but later worked with Roman Polanski - a man who'd drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl. When she was asked how she reconciled that to herself, she said 'You have to sell your soul sometimes'. Basically, she wanted to work with Polanski and that took priority for her over how she felt about what he'd done in the past. It's not a nice thought, but I guess we all make those kinds of decisions to one extent or another. Fukunaga sounds like a dick - but I'm not chucking out my copies of True Detective or NTTD.

    I've said it countless times before but if we didn't watch certain films or shows because of what a particular person attached to the project was accused or guilty of, there'd be almost nothing left to enjoy anymore.

    American Beauty is one of my favorite movies, and it’s partly due to Kevin Spacey’s performance. He’s better in the movie than say,Chevy Chase, who was seriously considered for Lester. And he’s a big of a dick than anyone who we’ve talked about.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,368
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, it's awkward. Paul Haggis has been accused of a lot worse than this, so do I stop watching CR and QOS as a result? I have to say that I don't - I watch them despite knowing what Haggis is accused of. To an extent, especially as 'consumers', you can separate the art from the artist, as the old cliche goes. It made me wonder at what point do you draw the line and boycott that person's work, though? Eva Green managed to fend off and escape from Harvey Weinstein, but later worked with Roman Polanski - a man who'd drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl. When she was asked how she reconciled that to herself, she said 'You have to sell your soul sometimes'. Basically, she wanted to work with Polanski and that took priority for her over how she felt about what he'd done in the past. It's not a nice thought, but I guess we all make those kinds of decisions to one extent or another. Fukunaga sounds like a dick - but I'm not chucking out my copies of True Detective or NTTD.

    I've said it countless times before but if we didn't watch certain films or shows because of what a particular person attached to the project was accused or guilty of, there'd be almost nothing left to enjoy anymore.

    American Beauty is one of my favorite movies, and it’s partly due to Kevin Spacey’s performance. He’s better in the movie than say,Chevy Chase, who was seriously considered for Lester. And he’s a big of a dick than anyone who we’ve talked about.

    It's also one of my favorites. Kevin Spacey is fantastic in it and he's an incredible actor in general. I'm still capable of enjoying his performances across the board without having to like the man himself.

    I had no idea that Chase was almost selected for that role, though. That's interesting.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, it's awkward. Paul Haggis has been accused of a lot worse than this, so do I stop watching CR and QOS as a result? I have to say that I don't - I watch them despite knowing what Haggis is accused of. To an extent, especially as 'consumers', you can separate the art from the artist, as the old cliche goes. It made me wonder at what point do you draw the line and boycott that person's work, though? Eva Green managed to fend off and escape from Harvey Weinstein, but later worked with Roman Polanski - a man who'd drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl. When she was asked how she reconciled that to herself, she said 'You have to sell your soul sometimes'. Basically, she wanted to work with Polanski and that took priority for her over how she felt about what he'd done in the past. It's not a nice thought, but I guess we all make those kinds of decisions to one extent or another. Fukunaga sounds like a dick - but I'm not chucking out my copies of True Detective or NTTD.

    I've said it countless times before but if we didn't watch certain films or shows because of what a particular person attached to the project was accused or guilty of, there'd be almost nothing left to enjoy anymore.

    Um wait…

    Did someone say we shouldn’t see works by controversial figures? Because I disagree with that. For example I’m fine with watching Tom Cruise movies while knowing he’s likely a monster.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited May 2022 Posts: 28,694
    This news is definitely not reassuring, and very disappointing, if true. Cary, like a lot of men we've heard about and I'm sure a lot of us have brushed paths with in person, seems to be the type that doesn't exactly know how to communicate with women effectively, doesn't have a good filter when he's in the mood, and doesn't seem aware when he's made someone uncomfortable. With how politically outspoken he is, in particular with women's rights, clearly he's deluded himself into thinking he's a fine specimen of moral flag carrying and the ultimate ally to all women. Being a hypocrite isn't a crime, however, or all that original. That being said, I worry when we treat standard creeps like actual rapists, and this is where this feels to be headed. I wish we wouldn't equate poor behavior in the professional and dating sphere with someone who holds a woman down and has his way with her against her will. They are two vastly, vastly different things, and it concerns me more and more every day that so many in the world have lost the ability to critically assess and objectively classify things like this properly without letting their emotions go wild. It's inevitable though, with social media being the titan it is and with so many on the planet instilled with the false sense that they're an expert on anything they talk about online and/or that anyone wants to hear their opinion.

    The difference with Cary this time around, from what I can gather so far, is that the relationships were consensual, he didn't force anything on the women at any time, and was just not great at communicating with the women he was with in careful, understanding and decent ways. So, a creep? Yes. A bit of a dick? Absolutely. The devil? I think the jury's still in on that one. What does bother me, as it always does in these situations, is why these women stayed with him for so long if they had such mounting issues about his behavior? If he wasn't a good guy, or things weren't working out, why stay with him? He didn't have a gun to any of their heads, so I just don't get why all the fire comes his way when there was some bad communication and poor decision making on the other side as well. And I don't want to hear that I'm "victim blaming," or anything ridiculous like that. Relationships are a two-way street, and when things don't work out but neither side fight for a peaceful and healthy split, it's an issue on both sides.

    Clearly Cary has some issues he needs to work through when it comes to controlling his biological instincts, and could use a term or two in charm school, but the women should have been more outspoken and just left his sorry butt in the dust. I understand the pressure and anxiety of what they could've faced, but I fear that by not walking away as soon as they had concerns, they just made the situation far worse for themselves. And because of the "believe all women" banner that is hung everywhere, their story and perspectives get 100 times more credence than anything he could ever say now, which disturbs me. I think Johnny Depp has been experiencing that cruel reality for a while now.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited May 2022 Posts: 648
    Purvis and Wade should definitely be overturned. Ever since TWINE they've done the same tropes over and over.
    Parental issues: TWINE, DAD, SF, SP
    Bond going rogue: DAD, QOS, SF, SP
    Villainous insider: DAD, SF, SP, NTTD (also CR but Fleming wrote that so it doesn't count)
    Bond's relevancy/usefulness being questioned: DAD, SF, SP, NTTD
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,368
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, it's awkward. Paul Haggis has been accused of a lot worse than this, so do I stop watching CR and QOS as a result? I have to say that I don't - I watch them despite knowing what Haggis is accused of. To an extent, especially as 'consumers', you can separate the art from the artist, as the old cliche goes. It made me wonder at what point do you draw the line and boycott that person's work, though? Eva Green managed to fend off and escape from Harvey Weinstein, but later worked with Roman Polanski - a man who'd drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl. When she was asked how she reconciled that to herself, she said 'You have to sell your soul sometimes'. Basically, she wanted to work with Polanski and that took priority for her over how she felt about what he'd done in the past. It's not a nice thought, but I guess we all make those kinds of decisions to one extent or another. Fukunaga sounds like a dick - but I'm not chucking out my copies of True Detective or NTTD.

    I've said it countless times before but if we didn't watch certain films or shows because of what a particular person attached to the project was accused or guilty of, there'd be almost nothing left to enjoy anymore.

    Um wait…

    Did someone say we shouldn’t see works by controversial figures? Because I disagree with that. For example I’m fine with watching Tom Cruise movies while knowing he’s likely a monster.

    Somebody did and I was responding (or rather, the implication some seem to make is that NTTD should be avoided entirely now because of the Fukunaga allegations).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Purvis and Wade should definitely be overturned. Ever since TWINE they've done the same tropes over and over.
    Parental issues: TWINE, DAD, SF, SP
    Bond going rogue: DAD, QOS, SF, SP
    Villainous insider: DAD, SF, SP, NTTD (also CR but Fleming wrote that so it doesn't count)
    Bond's relevancy/usefulness being questioned: DAD, SF, SP, NTTD

    I guess you could also say that one of M's previous decisions coming back to bite him/her on the bum is a recurring story element too.
  • Posts: 372
    Purvis and Wade, they do whatever direction they are told to do. They do it good, that's why they are still on and still will be. They are very good party team.
    Do you really think they have last word on the direction and themes? Come on!
    They bring their own punk-rock style to the series and this is awesome, they should be praised for keeping it on track.
  • He's obviously made some poor choices in his social life but it doesn't sound like he's sunk to the level of Johnny Depp or Brett Ratner etc.
  • Posts: 372
    Depp is not guilty of anything he is a victim. Ratner though is a creep.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    He's obviously made some poor choices in his social life but it doesn't sound like he's sunk to the level of Johnny Depp or Brett Ratner etc.

    I don't think I need to express in detail how sideways it is to compare the former to the latter, do I?
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,895
    You really wouldn't think so, would you. Sheesh.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,548
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, it's awkward. Paul Haggis has been accused of a lot worse than this, so do I stop watching CR and QOS as a result? I have to say that I don't - I watch them despite knowing what Haggis is accused of. To an extent, especially as 'consumers', you can separate the art from the artist, as the old cliche goes. It made me wonder at what point do you draw the line and boycott that person's work, though? Eva Green managed to fend off and escape from Harvey Weinstein, but later worked with Roman Polanski - a man who'd drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl. When she was asked how she reconciled that to herself, she said 'You have to sell your soul sometimes'. Basically, she wanted to work with Polanski and that took priority for her over how she felt about what he'd done in the past. It's not a nice thought, but I guess we all make those kinds of decisions to one extent or another. Fukunaga sounds like a dick - but I'm not chucking out my copies of True Detective or NTTD.

    I've said it countless times before but if we didn't watch certain films or shows because of what a particular person attached to the project was accused or guilty of, there'd be almost nothing left to enjoy anymore.

    Um wait…

    Did someone say we shouldn’t see works by controversial figures? Because I disagree with that. For example I’m fine with watching Tom Cruise movies while knowing he’s likely a monster.

    Well, here you are, guilty of doing the same thing to Cruise that you're trying to do with CJF.

    On what are you basing your conclusions about Cruise? So much of the crap that has been said about him is just that: crap.

    You know what we have never seen of Tom Cruise? One of these:

    753633_4ca35ec1176489ea65569a9b1edcca0a.jpeg
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,382
    TripAces wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, it's awkward. Paul Haggis has been accused of a lot worse than this, so do I stop watching CR and QOS as a result? I have to say that I don't - I watch them despite knowing what Haggis is accused of. To an extent, especially as 'consumers', you can separate the art from the artist, as the old cliche goes. It made me wonder at what point do you draw the line and boycott that person's work, though? Eva Green managed to fend off and escape from Harvey Weinstein, but later worked with Roman Polanski - a man who'd drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl. When she was asked how she reconciled that to herself, she said 'You have to sell your soul sometimes'. Basically, she wanted to work with Polanski and that took priority for her over how she felt about what he'd done in the past. It's not a nice thought, but I guess we all make those kinds of decisions to one extent or another. Fukunaga sounds like a dick - but I'm not chucking out my copies of True Detective or NTTD.

    I've said it countless times before but if we didn't watch certain films or shows because of what a particular person attached to the project was accused or guilty of, there'd be almost nothing left to enjoy anymore.

    Um wait…

    Did someone say we shouldn’t see works by controversial figures? Because I disagree with that. For example I’m fine with watching Tom Cruise movies while knowing he’s likely a monster.

    Well, here you are, guilty of doing the same thing to Cruise that you're trying to do with CJF.

    On what are you basing your conclusions about Cruise? So much of the crap that has been said about him is just that: crap.

    You know what we have never seen of Tom Cruise? One of these:

    753633_4ca35ec1176489ea65569a9b1edcca0a.jpeg

    Robert Downey Jr. Right?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    Yeah it's funny how terrible a likeness it is, considering its one purpose is identification! :)
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited May 2022 Posts: 1,419
    The issue with CJF is that he abused his power. He got notoriety and used it to creep out women. That's not good, and it's the type of thing that should ruin your career. He won't go to jail, and shouldn't (so far), but he also shouldn't be excused because it could have been worse. He abused his power.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    Posts: 467
    A lot of people who can coast on their good looks or their power up to the point they abuse them and take many things for granted. It doesn't mean that they are necessarily criminals, but they're at least jerks and assholes, and hurt people. Individually, none of the stories about Fukunaga are problematic (it's not uncommon for men to fantasize about twins), but their amount shows repeated patterns that are really concerning.
    The exposé on him is well deserved.

    Now, it's up to him to clean his ways or to go into obscurity as nobody hires him anymore, because he's on a sliding path. And going away for a while from an environment that tends to boost narcissism would be a good idea anyway.

    Being a "celebrity", regardless of how famous you actually are, puts people into a bubble that tends to develop in some cases their worst trends. They don't take no as an answer, or more accurately, some woman who turns a famous guy down or isn't interested in him at all for obvious reasons (like an age gap), is more interesting to the guy than some woman who's smitten by meeting a good-looking celebrity. The guy will take that as a challenge, which can turn into something horrific.

    We had an anchorman in France, Patrick Poivre d'Arvor, who hosted from 1987 to 2008 the most watched news in all of Europe. He was quite revered, even if his behavior towards women could look somewhat abrasive (including in the middle of a live interview), as he regarded himself as a seducer. Now, he faces more than twenty different accusations of assault or rape. And nobody in the French press is surprised by it. One of the most concerning things in this is that he regards himself as a good guy. Everything was consensual, he actually helped these women in their career, and now he's a victim of libel. And the sad truth is that he actually believes that, at least partly. At some point, (nearly) everybody loved him, women wanted to sleep with him. He simply disregarded that some women weren't attracted to him in any way or that he had a huge leverage on them. And it went worse as he aged or didn't mean anything to younger people after he left his anchorman seat.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,548
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, it's awkward. Paul Haggis has been accused of a lot worse than this, so do I stop watching CR and QOS as a result? I have to say that I don't - I watch them despite knowing what Haggis is accused of. To an extent, especially as 'consumers', you can separate the art from the artist, as the old cliche goes. It made me wonder at what point do you draw the line and boycott that person's work, though? Eva Green managed to fend off and escape from Harvey Weinstein, but later worked with Roman Polanski - a man who'd drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl. When she was asked how she reconciled that to herself, she said 'You have to sell your soul sometimes'. Basically, she wanted to work with Polanski and that took priority for her over how she felt about what he'd done in the past. It's not a nice thought, but I guess we all make those kinds of decisions to one extent or another. Fukunaga sounds like a dick - but I'm not chucking out my copies of True Detective or NTTD.

    I've said it countless times before but if we didn't watch certain films or shows because of what a particular person attached to the project was accused or guilty of, there'd be almost nothing left to enjoy anymore.

    Um wait…

    Did someone say we shouldn’t see works by controversial figures? Because I disagree with that. For example I’m fine with watching Tom Cruise movies while knowing he’s likely a monster.

    Well, here you are, guilty of doing the same thing to Cruise that you're trying to do with CJF.

    On what are you basing your conclusions about Cruise? So much of the crap that has been said about him is just that: crap.

    You know what we have never seen of Tom Cruise? One of these:

    753633_4ca35ec1176489ea65569a9b1edcca0a.jpeg

    Robert Downey Jr. Right?

    Yes. One of the mugshots from the three times he'd been busted for drugs and/or violating his probation.

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    LucknFate wrote: »
    The issue with CJF is that he abused his power. He got notoriety and used it to creep out women. That's not good, and it's the type of thing that should ruin your career. He won't go to jail, and shouldn't (so far), but he also shouldn't be excused because it could have been worse. He abused his power.

    Spot on.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    I'm a bit late to this but now I'm reading the NTTD behind the scenes book, and Fuku is all over that, and it reminded me of this going on. If it's true, it's repellant behavior- but why is this all of a sudden coming out now? Did anyone really know who he was before 007 except for real movie geeks? His profile is much higher now. Also, what did EON know, and when did they know it? If it's true, B & M are done with him like that, no?
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,548
    I'm a bit late to this but now I'm reading the NTTD behind the scenes book, and Fuku is all over that, and it reminded me of this going on. If it's true, it's repellant behavior- but why is this all of a sudden coming out now? Did anyone really know who he was before 007 except for real movie geeks? His profile is much higher now. Also, what did EON know, and when did they know it? If it's true, B & M are done with him like that, no?

    That would be the question. But it's coming out "how," exactly? Still, no major publication is running or investigating the story. And that's a good sign that the story is thin, without merit, and based on just a few oddballs with grievances. If it is indeed a behavior pattern, there might be more to come. But as of now, this is all BS accusations.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,368
    All it takes is one person to mention things publicly before more and more ends up coming out. Just look at the Frank Langella stuff going on now - one complaint led to a Netflix investigation and now there are a bunch of stories pouring out about his on-set behavior after his firing.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    Seems to me that if was legit, wouldn't it have hit last fall? Why now? Something doesn't compute.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Well, to give some defense to victims, there's no proper time to share allegations, or bad experiences you had with someone. A lot of people feel shame, feel used and just so traumatized by an experience that they ultimately repress it so as not to have to think about it beyond what had happened, which was painful enough without the rest of the world knowing. Which leads to years of them bottling it up, or quietly trying to deal with it their own way. MeToo was a spark for some victims, I guess, where they felt motivated to dust off their bad experiences and report them because they saw so many other people doing the same. I think the main intention, most often, was to seek justice in a way that it couldn't be gotten through law, and to also "inspire" other victims to speak up too while also giving some empowerment to every kind of victim, no matter where they were or who they were.

    On the other side, the timing can sometimes look fishy, and that's a shame, because some victims just choose these moments to speak up that just so happen to coincide with their "abuser" doing something on a high profile that makes it look like they're getting revenge or something. With Cary, I think the biggest spark that led to the women speaking up about what he did was him posting about women's rights, which they found ironic and fake, and they felt the need to point out how he maybe wasn't exactly a woman's champion in shining armor. How much of all this is true, how much is exaggerated, and how much is down to bad communication between two parties, we'll see, but there's really no expiration date on accusations or how you can make them.

    Some people wait most of their lives to talk about an abuser, because it hurts to bring it up, or they want to pretend it didn't happen. We're in a climate right now ripe for these accusations to come flooding in, and that's why it's so important not to jump to conclusions either way and just let things develop themselves. There's been some cases where victims outright lied about someone abusing them, and the same has happened to a good friend of mine whose life will forever be marked by a vindictive woman seeking to ruin him. These things are monumentally severe, and need to be assessed as carefully as possible, as you are dealing with peoples' lives and reputations here and the stink of a label, whether a person is found innocent or guilty after an accusation, never goes away.

    I just wish victims were more outspoken, but that's not an opinion too popular in a lot of places because it's easily lumped in as "victim blaming." But I just think of all the genuinely bad abusers that've spent decades harassing or assaulting victims, and all it would've taken is a few of those victims to band together, speak out and stop that person from doing it ever again to countless other people. These abusers exist because society allows them to exist, and they are protected by the system which they use to manipulate and harass and abuse others.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, it's awkward. Paul Haggis has been accused of a lot worse than this, so do I stop watching CR and QOS as a result? I have to say that I don't - I watch them despite knowing what Haggis is accused of. To an extent, especially as 'consumers', you can separate the art from the artist, as the old cliche goes. It made me wonder at what point do you draw the line and boycott that person's work, though? Eva Green managed to fend off and escape from Harvey Weinstein, but later worked with Roman Polanski - a man who'd drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl. When she was asked how she reconciled that to herself, she said 'You have to sell your soul sometimes'. Basically, she wanted to work with Polanski and that took priority for her over how she felt about what he'd done in the past. It's not a nice thought, but I guess we all make those kinds of decisions to one extent or another. Fukunaga sounds like a dick - but I'm not chucking out my copies of True Detective or NTTD.

    I've said it countless times before but if we didn't watch certain films or shows because of what a particular person attached to the project was accused or guilty of, there'd be almost nothing left to enjoy anymore.

    Haggis is going up against Scientology, which is known for smears. So it's a bit different.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    Well, to give some defense to victims, there's no proper time to share allegations, or bad experiences you had with someone. A lot of people feel shame, feel used and just so traumatized by an experience that they ultimately repress it so as not to have to think about it beyond what had happened, which was painful enough without the rest of the world knowing. Which leads to years of them bottling it up, or quietly trying to deal with it their own way. MeToo was a spark for some victims, I guess, where they felt motivated to dust off their bad experiences and report them because they saw so many other people doing the same. I think the main intention, most often, was to seek justice in a way that it couldn't be gotten through law, and to also "inspire" other victims to speak up too while also giving some empowerment to every kind of victim, no matter where they were or who they were.

    On the other side, the timing can sometimes look fishy, and that's a shame, because some victims just choose these moments to speak up that just so happen to coincide with their "abuser" doing something on a high profile that makes it look like they're getting revenge or something. With Cary, I think the biggest spark that led to the women speaking up about what he did was him posting about women's rights, which they found ironic and fake, and they felt the need to point out how he maybe wasn't exactly a woman's champion in shining armor. How much of all this is true, how much is exaggerated, and how much is down to bad communication between two parties, we'll see, but there's really no expiration date on accusations or how you can make them.

    Some people wait most of their lives to talk about an abuser, because it hurts to bring it up, or they want to pretend it didn't happen. We're in a climate right now ripe for these accusations to come flooding in, and that's why it's so important not to jump to conclusions either way and just let things develop themselves. There's been some cases where victims outright lied about someone abusing them, and the same has happened to a good friend of mine whose life will forever be marked by a vindictive woman seeking to ruin him. These things are monumentally severe, and need to be assessed as carefully as possible, as you are dealing with peoples' lives and reputations here and the stink of a label, whether a person is found innocent or guilty after an accusation, never goes away.

    I just wish victims were more outspoken, but that's not an opinion too popular in a lot of places because it's easily lumped in as "victim blaming." But I just think of all the genuinely bad abusers that've spent decades harassing or assaulting victims, and all it would've taken is a few of those victims to band together, speak out and stop that person from doing it ever again to countless other people. These abusers exist because society allows them to exist, and they are protected by the system which they use to manipulate and harass and abuse others.

    This is an excellent and very nuanced post. This is why I’m not outright dismissive of folks who only decide to open up after a period of time.
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