Star Wars (1977 - present)

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  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited September 2021 Posts: 1,686
    Obi-Wan cuts off the forearm of an assassin with a gun at his back and uses a mind trick to convince a drug dealer not to sell drugs. I think that's it, really. More or less on par with the original film.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,020
    The prequels certainly critique the Jedi, yeah. Yoda comments on their arrogance, and Palpatine's criticisms of the Jedi are made to ring true. It's part of the point.

    The idea seems to be that the maverick Qui-Gon had it right, and the Jedi should have been more like him and less like Yoda, Mace and co.

    Except the Jedi Council are proven right that training Anakin was a terrible idea. Yoda even warns Obi-Wan that he sensed grave danger from Anakin. Qui-Gon was correct that they had become bureaucratic, but his instincts about Anakin were dead wrong, and Obi-Wan decided to follow his master’s dying wish rather than listen to the council.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited September 2021 Posts: 1,686
    The prequels certainly critique the Jedi, yeah. Yoda comments on their arrogance, and Palpatine's criticisms of the Jedi are made to ring true. It's part of the point.

    The idea seems to be that the maverick Qui-Gon had it right, and the Jedi should have been more like him and less like Yoda, Mace and co.

    Except the Jedi Council are proven right that training Anakin was a terrible idea. Yoda even warns Obi-Wan that he sensed grave danger from Anakin. Qui-Gon was correct that they had become bureaucratic, but his instincts about Anakin were dead wrong, and Obi-Wan decided to follow his master’s dying wish rather than listen to the council.

    Yeah, that's all certainly true ("from a certain point of view" ;) ), but you're meant to think that had Qui-Gon not died, Anakin might have turned out better. The prequel trilogy starts with Qui-Gon defying the Council, and Yoda specifically, in various ways and ends with Yoda learning from Qui-Gon's spirit. It's why Yoda starts the prequels thinking constantly about the future, but in the original trilogy, he's telling Luke to think about the here and now, as Qui-Gon would have advised.

    Yoda and the Council are not presented in the prequels as doing a particularly good job with Anakin or having very much compassion for him. Qui-Gon's compassion, and Luke's, later, is supposed to be more the ideal.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,020
    It’s too bad Qui-Gon didn’t extend that compassion to Anakin’s mother.

    “Sorry Ani, I know I’m a powerful Jedi with a lasersword, but Watto wouldn’t give up your mom, so say goodbye to her.”
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,686
    It’s too bad Qui-Gon didn’t extend that compassion to Anakin’s mother.

    “Sorry Ani, I know I’m a powerful Jedi with a lasersword, but Watto wouldn’t give up your mom, so say goodbye to her.”

    :)) Fair enough, but the only way around that would involve more of the toxic use of phallic weaponry we're trying to avoid! (gaslighting doesn't work on Toydarians!)
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 66
    The Clone Wars also touched upon the subject, especially the final seasons with
    Ahsoka leaving the council and eventually being called "a citizen" by Windu, whose arrogant manners convince Ahsoka not to tell them that Palpatine intends to turn Anakin to the dark side.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,020
    Oh, that just makes me dislike her. I never watched the show, and her appearance in THE MANDALORIAN didn’t really impress.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited September 2021 Posts: 1,686
    More examples come to mind: not sure how much was left in the film, but the Jedi Archives librarian is the most arrogant person in the series. "If it's not in our archives, it doesn't exist" or something. Everyone's least favorite CGI character, Dexter Jettster, also critiques the inadequacy of Jedi methods. Anakin comes to Yoda for help in ROTS, and Yoda just recites platitudes to him and doesn't take a very serious interest. C-3PO's transformation from diplomatic aid to war machine, and his commentary on its inappropriateness, would also count. And the Jedi entering a big battle from screen right accompanied by stormtroopers? That's not film language for "heroic".

    Really, the whole prequel trilogy, especially the last two films, is showing the Jedi doing a disappointing job even at the philosophical level. Interesting to see that this was continued in the TCW show.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    It’s too bad Qui-Gon didn’t extend that compassion to Anakin’s mother.

    “Sorry Ani, I know I’m a powerful Jedi with a lasersword, but Watto wouldn’t give up your mom, so say goodbye to her.”

    This single thing is what makes it hard for me to watch Phantom Menace & Attack Of The Clones.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,102
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,921
    Obi-Wan cuts off the forearm of an assassin with a gun at his back and uses a mind trick to convince a drug dealer not to sell drugs. I think that's it, really. More or less on par with the original film.

    Yeah.. that's not good though, in either film: that's creepy. I always though that guy from Home & Away was selling cigarettes, too; I've never thought of him as a drug dealer.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited September 2021 Posts: 2,350
    MaxCasino wrote: »

    About time they released this ? ;)
    hasbro-star-wars-the-black-series-george-lucas-oop-weapon-297621.jpg
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,686
    Well death sticks are obviously analogous to cigarettes in being deadly and stick-shaped, and analogous to illegal drugs in being black market items pushed by dealers in nightclubs.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,921
    People sell cheap cigarettes too, I honestly just took it as that. You're probably right that it's supposed to be illegal drugs but no-one seems to react as if it is, plus a comedy heroin dealer in a Star Wars film is an odd choice.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,686
    Well, opening a movie in an opium den and ending it with a teddy bear army is an odd choice too, but there's Return of the Jedi doing it! :)
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 66
    Oh, that just makes me dislike her. I never watched the show, and her appearance in THE MANDALORIAN didn’t really impress.

    It makes sense, though (in my opinion).
    Maul warned Ahsoka of Jedi's blindness and as soon as she realized how full of themselves they were, as well as narrow-minded, she realized that telling them about Sidious' plans wouldn't change much as they wouldn't be able to stop him and would probably grow even more suspicious than Anakin and move him away from the Jedi council, like they did to her. As a result Anakin would feel betrayed by the Jedi and would be even more willing to become Sidious' apprentice.
    Therefore Ahsoka plans to tell Anakin herself; unfortunately Order 66 happens shortly after and all is lost anyway
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,921
    Well, opening a movie in an opium den and ending it with a teddy bear army is an odd choice too, but there's Return of the Jedi doing it! :)

    Not really the same, no.
  • Posts: 1,394
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    8b436ef4665715f6682faed12fc240a1.jpg
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,263
  • Posts: 1,165
    The Book of Boba Fett looks great. I’m very excited to see the post ROTJ timeline being explored in live action. TV is an ideal format for this.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,921
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Are you surprised with Kathleen Kennedy in charge?

    Strange to see George Lucas contributing to that Boba Fett doco, with Kennedy in it too. I thought he hated her guts and wanted nothing more to do with it etc.? I wonder if that may all be a load of guff :)
    Jenkins has form for this.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 526
    MrBond wrote: »
    00Beast wrote:
    @MrBond: Nice to see The Phantom Menace high up in your ranking! I am always disappointed with those who dislike the movie and call it "cheesy" or "childish". I was three when this movie came out, and four when the VHS rolled around, so I have extremely fond memories of this one! Even without that I would still like it because it is such an awesome movie, even with Jar Jar Binks!

    Same here, I was 4 years when I first watched it. I think it was around -00, and that was something I really liked. It was later on when I realized that people disliked the movie and especially Jar Jar. I did always think that the original trilogy was very boring for a long time.

    I’m with you. I think the original trilogy is boring, plodding and anti-climactic. Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Return of the Jedi are the best parts of Ep 4-6. That being said, I still like them moderately. Can’t forget the Emperor, he made ROTJ great. Like, Leia, and Han Solo (don’t care for at all). Anyways, I love the prequels. Can’t stand Eps 7-9. Utterly terrible, especially The Last Jedi-perhaps the worst movie ever.
    My rankings:
    1. Ep 3
    2. Ep 1
    3. Ep 2
    4. Ep 6
    5. Star Wars
    6. Rogue One
    7. Ep 5
    8. Solo Movie
    9. Ep 9
    10. The Last Jedi
  • werrenwerren cape town
    Posts: 5
    10. The Last Jedi

    also, not satisfied with this movie

  • Posts: 526
    Excited for the Kenobi series. Can’t wait to see how it plays out. Mandalorian is one of my favorite shows on TV right now as well.
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