NEW 2021 UPDATES ON 'Quick Big Mi6 Bond Ranking Game': JOIN IN, FOLKS!

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  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Finally sent mine.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    I compiled my list a little differently this time, starting with DN and slotting each subsequent film into the existing list...
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,758
    Thanks everyone for joining in! Really appreciated.
    Today I'll start counting!

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Thanks everyone for joining in! Really appreciated.
    Today I'll start counting!


    That is great. Will you give us a few statistics as well?
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,758
    I will definitely try to do so :)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember, how is this different than the ranking game that @Thunderfinger ran a few years back? I know that one had something unique about it.

    It pitted every single Bond film against every other and people stated which of the two they preferred. Then I counted a win as a point and a loss as a minus point. The draws evened out.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,758
    We'll be able to compare the final rankings, if you'd like.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited April 2021 Posts: 6,758
    Thanks for posting @Thunderfinger

    I've counted 10 out of the 25 rankings, so I should be done by the end of the week. Maybe even earlier.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,879
    Pretty sure we used to do a community ranking every year. Good to see it still happening.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,758
    Ok folks, I've finished my counting sheet, just waiting for one member to include TND (and NSNA if he wishes to) and then we can start the countdown :)
  • Exciting! I’m looking forward to this
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,879
    Let's see who ends up on top.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,758
    I'm all set to reveal the results.

    One film will be revealed each day, starting tomorrow. On the final day the top 2 will be revealed at the same time, of course. I've always been fascinated by film posters, so each film will be accompanied by an international film poster that I hope isn't too familiar with you yet.

    But first I'd like to thank all of you participants. 26, myself excluded, have gone through the trouble of sending me their list:

    @echo @pachazo @QBranch @PG007 @Max_The_Parrot
    @Creasy47 @MonsieurMerci @Agent_99 @JTW
    @Klaus_Doberman @Some_Kind_Of_Hero @Dwayne
    @ShakenNotStirred @DarthDimi @royale65 @zebrafish
    @Thunderfinger @SomethingThatAteHim @Slazenger7
    @GeneralGogol @Benny @jake24 @Mathis1
    @Birdleson @goldenswissroyale @Junglist_1985

    Thanks a lot, folks! Much appreciated :)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,448
    27... That is the number of theatrically (to be) released Bond films. I am GE, @Thunderfinger is CR67.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    27... That is the number of theatrically (to be) released Bond films. I am GE, @Thunderfinger is CR67.

    Yeah, I know what you mean. We are both pretty bad.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,758
    OK chaps, let's get this ball rolling, starting out with the lowest ranked entry.

    STARRING
    Sean Connery as James Bond 007

    WITH
    Kim Basinger, Klaus Maria Brandauer, Barbara Carrera & Bernie Casey

    NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN

    MUSIC BY Michel Legrand
    DIRECTED BY Irvin Kershner

    f3de35c41d647b7c8d49c563168484b061cf690b.jpg

    Unsurprisingly, given that quite a few members don't consider it canon, the only non-EON entry comes in last.

    The inclusion of NSNA was optional, 7 members chose not to include it, resulting in 7 last places by default. Another 4 last places gives NSNA a total of 11 last places, the most of all the contestents.

    Its highest ranking was 12th out of 25, which it reached on two occasions.

    In total, NSNA managed to collect 60 points.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    That is really cool artwork. Haven t seen that before. NSNA was dead last in my tournament thread as well. It was beaten by all other films in each round it was in. Personally I have it no. 19.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited April 2021 Posts: 23,448
    I agree that this is the only spot the film deserves. I can somewhat enjoy it whenever I sit down to watch it, and I have some nostalgic feelings about the film--as an 8-year old, I thought this film absolutely rocked--but knowing where the film comes from, I cannot but see it as a labour of hatred, an expression of resentment and jealousy, and an attempt at hurting Cubby hard. Even if I can set such feelings aside, particularly because some have (futilely) tried to convince me of both Fleming and Broccoli bringing this retaliatory action upon themselves, I can't help but think of the film as very mediocre in terms of script, acting, production design, music, image and sound quality, ... Even the weaker of the EON Bonds outdo NSNA in every department, technical or otherwise. I own VHS, DVD and BR copies of this film, and all of them look blurry and washed out, sound false and unclear, almost as if the only surviving copies of the film are bootlegs from someone who smuggled a cam into the theatre in 1983. I have seen atrocious Z-level Roger Corman Star Wars ripoffs that play better than NSNA.

    But what happened to the score? Didn't Legrand get the memo about this being the '80s? Why does the plot feel like something Jess Franco spat on paper over the weekend in the days when he was doing cheapies at a rate of 12 films per year? Why does the action look like something H.G. Lewis directed?

    This film neither feels like, nor aspires to be a good Bond film. Regardless of the fact that they couldn't do the gunbarrel or use the Bond Theme, nothing else even remotely signals "Bond" except for Connery being there. And Connery is good, don't get me wrong. So is Brandauer and Basinger's physique. But that's where it ends. Austin Powers feels like a more bonafide Bond film to me than this thing. If this is the best McClory could do with all the tools at his disposal, if this was the grand kickoff to a competing Bond series, then EON never had much to worry about. NSNA is a fundamentally flawed film, and the few positives cannot even come close to balancing out the vast array of negatives.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,418
    I do enjoy your rants over NSNA @DarthDimi. Even the poster is a bit naff.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,758
    To each his own, and I respect that, but personally I really enjoy NSNA.

    It has that 80's French Riviera vibe, I like how it handles the older Bond angle (which the EON series never quite got right, imo) and most of all, I love the cast.

    Connery has more fun here than in either of his official swansongs, Brandauer is a fabulous actor and he's actually one of my favourite villains, Carrera is devilishly entertaining, Fox is another gifted actor who stiff-upperlips all over the place and Bernie Casey is my very favourite Felix. Also, Max von Sydow might as well be the best actor ever to appear in a Bond film.

    I know it's flawed and its origins are questionable, but I'd lie if I don't admit I do enjoy it a lot.

    That being said, I understand not everyone feels the same way and I also understand it isn't canon for all, hence why I left its inclusion optional.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,758
    That is really cool artwork. Haven t seen that before. NSNA was dead last in my tournament thread as well. It was beaten by all other films in each round it was in. Personally I have it no. 19.

    Thanks @Thunderfinger! Love this artwork too. It's from Thailand :)
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,378
    I'm also one of them who thinks that NSNA deserves to be at the bottom. My highlight: Barbara Carrera. The weakest part: the terrible score.

    Looking at the nice poster: is this pepsi product placement or what is written there at the bottom right?
  • Posts: 6,727
    Bit disappointed to see NSNA last!
    It has a lot of flaws, and yes, the score is very weak, but it has come up in the rankings for me over the years, have been entertained by it in my most recent viewings!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,879
    I ranked NSNA second last, but I do enjoy it.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    edited April 2021 Posts: 2,598
    I had NSNA at number 20 in my rankings.

    Back in 1983, I – like many people I suspect – were willing to overlook the film’s faults just for a chance to see Connery back in the role that he made famous (And with my mother being the world’s leading Sean Connery fan, I watched this movie A LOT back in the day 😊). Only later, as my Bond fandom grew, did the “oh its’ not really that good” feelings kick in. The “80ish” of the production values, does work against it for me (*).

    That said, almost 40 years on, (IMO) that there are things to like about NSNA: Connery is actually in fine form – better in some ways than he was in DAF. And, Barbara Carrera, Klaus Maria Brandauer and Bernie Casey are treats. I even like the Lani Hall theme song (it is actually the first track on my 007 mixtape!). Of course, that could be due to the fact that I've always had a "thing" for Ms. Hall :-). BTW: In an interview, she stated that the song could have been better in retrospect.

    Like CR 1967, I glad NSNA exists – even with its’ faults.


    **Whether in music or film, there is just something about the early 1980s that feels artificial, “corporate” and bland to me.
  • Max_The_ParrotMax_The_Parrot ATAC to St Cyril’s
    Posts: 2,426
    I’d rather watch NSNA than Thunderball ... does that get me a ban round here? 🧐🥸
  • Count me among those who really quite enjoys Never Say Never Again. It's one that has only grown on me over the years and for countless reasons.

    The Cast: As others have mentioned, Connery is in top form here, performance- and fitness-wise. In the years since DAF, he appears to have packed on some muscle and here glows with healthy vitality (ironic perhaps, given the film's Shrublands angle). Brandauer and Carrera make for one of the best villainous duos of the series, both toeing a perfect line between campy villainy and chilling insanity. Bernie Casey is simply my favorite Felix Leiter of all time. He plays perfectly against Connery, and NSNA marks the only time we've seen Felix in combat. Pat Roach, while silent, puts more personality into Lippe through the physicality of his fight choreography and stuntwork than Thunderball's Guy Doleman did, and a very young Rowan Atkinson is delightful as the bumbling comedic relief.

    The Action: The mid-film motorcycle chase down the narrow alleys and streets of Nice, culminating in a terrific canal leap, packs more thrills than many of the other 80s chase sequences and without the goofy gags that tended to mar them. The clinic fight with Lippe ranks up there among the better staged and better executed and is packed full of wisely judged visual humor. The underwater action is better paced than Thunderball's. Even the finale, which is sometimes ragged on for its set limitations, delivers a thrilling close quarters gun battle.

    The Comedy: Credit to Lorenzo Semple, Jr., this is one witty script. From Bond's crack to M about cutting out the white bread to his leaving the gala guard hanging with his cigarette case to his final conversation with Fatima about raptures and endorsements, the cast is given a lot to play with and they do.

    The Cinematography: It's a fine looking film, courtesy of Douglas Slocombe (of Indy trilogy fame), that makes great use of its wider frame.

    MV5BMzRkNmE2YzctMWZlNy00MzdlLTgzMjYtMzc3Njg5YzNkYzQwXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjUwNzk3NDc@._V1_.jpg

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    never-say-never-again-1983-5.jpg

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    The Music: Yes, the music! For a long time I was hung up on the more dreadful parts of the score—the clunky jazz-action that accompanies Bond and Domino's horseback escape from Palmyra with terrible incongruity, for instance. But there are quite lovely parts to the score as well that help steep the film in the luxury and escapism of Southern France. At times, the music immerses you in the 80s. At times, it achieves a kind of timeless splendor.



    I'm also not sure it's quite accurate to call the film "a labour of hatred." If you've ever listened to the DVD commentary, you've heard with what fondness and what passion Irvin Kershner speaks of the film. A lot of the creative forces on this film had nothing to do with any behind-the-scenes feuds or courtroom battles. They were simply trying to make the most entertaining picture they could, same as any other Bond film. In my opinion, they succeeded.

    I wish there was some way to see how everyone would rank NSNA independently of its behind-the-scenes business, but as Connery would say, "C'est la vie."
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited April 2021 Posts: 5,921
    I don't hate NSNA. I think it has more admirable and dare I say Bondian elements (a better-than-average cast, the video game, the underwater action, the quips, especially coming from Connery) than several of the Eon films. Of course the score (good composer, bad score--sound familiar?) grates.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,758
    That's a great question @Birdleson.
    I'm not great at math, so I've got to say that I'm not sure where to rate a film that got 20 votes to 24 other films that got 27 votes. I might figure that out at some point, but not the next few days though. Sorry, mate.

    About NSNA's music. Sure it has some weird moments, but I do overall like the jazzy stuff. I also consider Legrand a very gifted musician, given his other work.
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