Star Wars (1977 - present)

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  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,045
    It is a modern crime against cinema that the true original prints haven't been remastered. Is George purposely holding out or something, because the original trilogy as they were released no longer feel like his "creative vision"? I just don't get it.

    He's all about money, so why not set it up for the originals to be released as they were and watch the cash flow in?

    He's said a few times that he was limited by the technology of his time then and that the original versions are not his true vision. Apart from the Han and Greedo dilemma which was significantly cheapened by the changes, I can see where he's coming from.

  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Most of the changes I don't hate. There are shots that look significantly better, which are still practical (not everything was replaced by CGI). There are things cleaned up (matte lines around ships) that help the films look better. CGI Yoda added to The Phantom Menace is a change I prefer because the original Phantom Menace puppet of Yoda just looks like crap.

    I don't really like the Han/Greedo change, but a rumor I learned of recently was that it was changed to allow the film to keep its PG rating (where originally, Han killed Greedo in cold blood to get a PG rating instead of a G). I dunno if that's the truth, but it makes sense to me.

    Another change I'm not a big fan of is Vader's shout of "No!" at the end of Return of the Jedi. It was much more powerful with him being silent prior to the Blu-rays, but I can easily ignore the Blu-rays because they don't change a whole lot more than the 2004 DVDs.

    In the end, only a couple of the changes truly affect the story of the films, and the changes I don't like I can just shut off in my mind and imagine the original scene. The films likely won't change any more than they have now that Lucas isn't running the show.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited December 2016 Posts: 23,604
    @Birdleson, rest assured, it is the original film. :)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,693
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @Birdleson, rest assured, it is the original film. :)
    I got the first of those, and honestly, I can't watch it. It's non-anamorphic DVD...that's like decent VHS. I'll keep it for reference sake, but I'll go with the Blu Ray any day and visit the bathroom during the Jabba add-in.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Some of those new scenes don t fit into the films at all. The difference is so obvious, it s just bad work.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,604
    @chrisisall, are you sure? I'm going to check my copy right now then.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Birdleson wrote: »
    But it's more than what changes bother one or what effects the story. To me, and others, it's the larger concept of not screwing with a piece of work once it's been put out there. These films (any film that strikes a chord) were special to many people. To not at least have the option of watching the classics that awoke such a passion in so many would be a travesty. I'm happy that they do to appear to be (finally) available (yet pricey).

    Can you imagine EON deciding to go back and screwing with the classic Bond films? A little CGI here and there to cover up obvious models and stuntmen. The idea makes me sick and it really would kill the beauty of those films. They do more than tell a story and entertain, they represent a time and place. They represent an achievement and creative endeavor that has developed and evolved over the years.

    @Birdleson, I agree 100% and couldn't have said it any better.

    When a piece of art is changed, for better or worse, that matters. What if someone went back and made Da Vinci's Mona Lisa smile in a wide grin, or replaced the nose on egyptian sphinx statues?

    If they did this sort of thing to Bond, I would be absolutely furious.

    "Those rear projection shots in Dr. No need to go. Let's film the real location in Jamaica and use effects to make it seem like Sean is driving on location."

    One of the things I appreciate about EON is that they don't do this kind of garbage, though they very well could.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Birdleson wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Wait, @Birdleson, a few years ago they did release, at least on DVD, the original theatrical experience of Star Wars, Empire and Jedi as bonus discs for another trilogy release. I bought them.

    https://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Episode-IV-Limited/dp/B000FQJAIW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1483183268&sr=8-4&keywords=star+wars+dvd

    Thanks, I would like to find those. Though BluRay would still be preferable. You've seen these? The opening scroll of STAR WARS just says STAR WARS on top?

    That must be the 2006 limited editions DVD's where the theatrical versions were put on a second disc.
    BUT you will get thick black bars around the picture! And they were taken from the LaserDisc masters, that's why the resolution is not a DVD resolution.
    I read about those, also remember that one of my buddies has them. And sadly, he confirmed that they are unwatchable on our modern big TV sets.
    :(
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,604
    The film on the bonus disc has this opener:

    GW331H142

    The title of the film, above the text scroll, is simply STAR WARS.

    I get good image and sound quality. The film plays in 2.35:1. This is what I'm seeing:

    zuggsoft.com/theater/sw-hd.jpg

    This is NOT what I'm seeing:

    latest?cb=20121215221022

    And Han DOES shoot first! :D

    I honestly think this is what you are looking for, @Birdleson.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    But Jabba is still a fat slug, right?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2016 Posts: 17,693
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    The film on the bonus disc has this opener:

    GW331H142

    The title of the film, above the text scroll, is simply STAR WARS.

    I get good image and sound quality. The film plays in 2.35:1. This is what I'm seeing:

    zuggsoft.com/theater/sw-hd.jpg

    This is NOT what I'm seeing:

    latest?cb=20121215221022

    And Han DOES shoot first! :D

    I honestly think this is what you are looking for, @Birdleson.
    Okay, I'm being a little harsh. The quality isn't bad, it's just I personally have a real hard time with non-anamorphic DVD. I have Streets of Fire & King Kong (1976) in that format, but, like, they aren't STAR WARS!
    ;)
    Also, wow! $50? I got mine gently used for $25.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,604
    I bought them new and fairly cheap (around $20 per film) when they came out several years ago.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,588
    Birdleson wrote: »
    But it's more than what changes bother one or what effects the story. To me, and others, it's the larger concept of not screwing with a piece of work once it's been put out there. These films (any film that strikes a chord) were special to many people. To not at least have the option of watching the classics that awoke such a passion in so many would be a travesty. I'm happy that they do to appear to be (finally) available (yet pricey).

    Can you imagine EON deciding to go back and screwing with the classic Bond films? A little CGI here and there to cover up obvious models and stuntmen. The idea makes me sick and it really would kill the beauty of those films. They do more than tell a story and entertain, they represent a time and place. They represent an achievement and creative endeavor that has developed and evolved over the years.
    Agreed! The fact that the films are being tampered with post-release is incredibly low.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,604
    I agree and disagree.

    I agree that the original movie, as released, the one that sparked so much love and happiness upon its release, should always be kept easily available to people who want it.

    However, I also think that Lucas, who ultimately is Mister Star Wars - not some random financier or whatever but Lucas himself - can do with his own creations whatever he wants and try to sell those remastered, re-edited, re-whatever versions too. They are his baby and he can nurture it any way he likes; we will judge whether we like it too or not enough to buy it.

    The only thing Lucas was (and potentially is) doing wrong is trying to remove the original film from existence as it were. Fans demanded the theatrical cuts and then Lucas (or whoever) yielded by selling it as a bonus disc in a package that's still primarily focused on the latest versions. It's as if he's not proud of his own achievements, or almost as if he's ashamed that Cameron and Jackson have gone far beyond Star Wars in technical terms, and so he must now CGI the hell out of that original movie so it can still impress the post-Avatar generation. George, relax. A good film is a good film, whether released in 1927, 1957, 1977, ... , and a good film will always give us the proper thrills.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited December 2016 Posts: 7,314
    Someone recently said that it would be great if they could have an interactive menu on the disc which would allow you to pick which changes (if any) you want to include before watching the film. Perhaps that way everyone could be happy?

    Honestly though, they need to put out a high quality version of the original trilogy. The first film in particular is such an important part of motion picture history that it's a crime future generations will never be able to experience it like people did in the 70's.

    ROTJ is the first movie that I can remember seeing in the theater. I was 4 that summer. It makes me sad that the version I grew up with has almost been wiped out of existence.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Star Trek The Original Series on Blu-ray allows you to watch it either in the original format or with the newly done sound and CGI effects.
    Furthermore you can choose between the original sound track (mono) or the newly done 5.1 DTS Master.

    That's what service to fans means. Fox should take not and release a proper Star Wars box latest when Episode VIII comes out!!
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Fox has nothing to do with Star Wars anymore, aside from distribution of A New Hope.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited December 2016 Posts: 9,020
    Not true, Fox still owns the first original movies.

    The former distributor, 20th Century Fox, retains the physical distribution rights to the first two Star Wars trilogies, owning permanent rights for the original 1977 film and holding the rights to Episodes I–III, V and VI
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Disney bought those, though. A friend of mine has the recent steelbooks and the Fox logo is nowhere to be found on Episodes I-III, V & VI. Fox still has IV, though.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Okay guys/girls. LET'S do a little poll in here ;-). The poll question is very very simple:

    Which of these two "Star Wars" films do you consider the be the best?
    A --> "Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens" ?
    B --> "Rogue One: A Star Wars Story" ?


    Reade? Steady? GO!! ;-)
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Goddamn this question and all it stands for.

    From a standpoint of "Which one has less things I don't like", it would be Rogue One, because nearly every problem I had with Rogue One was pure nitpick, the movie was fan-f*cking-tastic. I love The Force Awakens as well, but I do see more faults to the film.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,604
    Difficult question, @Gustav_Graves.

    - originality: RO > TFA
    - that old Star Wars feel: RO = TFA
    - space battles / dog fights: RO > TFA
    - lightsaber duels: TFA (by default)
    - cool heroes: RO < TFA (but only slightly)
    - cool villains: RO > TFA
    - script: RO = TFA
    - cool Force moments: RO >>>> TFA (Vader!)

    Hm... I guess it's RO for me. :)
  • Posts: 1,314
    I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would think rogue one 'feels' more like The Star Wars OT. Rogue one feels like Star Wars for people who have watched Star Wars too many times. It's purposefully trying to be different

    Also those categories @DarthDimi

    Rather than cool characters, maybe characters we know and care about? I mean it's not like I was lamenting any of the characters deaths at the end. We didn't know them. We just knew what they did cool stuff. Kung fu. Big gun. Metal legs with oxygen mask. I don't know. For me there's a great film in rogue one trying to get out, but it's hamstrung by a complete lack of focus on the characters in the first hour. Krennic could have been fascinating. Way too many but part heroes rather than a few compelling ones. By the time they start doing stuff, i was more or less started to lose interest.

    I'll give you originality though. And I do like the last 45 minutes. And it's a country mile better than the prequels. I'd Probably put it 5th.
  • Posts: 1,314
    Just out of interest are Disney allowed to tinker/ backtrack with the original trilogy? I could imagine the next release will feature Han shooting first and a better cgi jabba.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,136
    I don't think so. They aren't allowed to retcon/alter the prequels, I know that much.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Okay guys/girls. LET'S do a little poll in here ;-). The poll question is very very simple:

    Which of these two "Star Wars" films do you consider the be the best?
    A --> "Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens" ?
    B --> "Rogue One: A Star Wars Story" ?


    Reade? Steady? GO!! ;-)
    Of the two, I much prefer The Force Awakens. I thought the earlier film had spirit. Spark. Rogue One is technically better (visually magnificent) but I related to all the TFA characters better and found the acting in it on the whole to be far superior to the latest film. Rogue One was strangely soulless to me.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    ROGUE ONE puts The Teen Force Awakens into the ground and buries it.

    It's simply the best Star Wars movie together with the original from 1977.

    TFA vs RO is like DAF vs FRWL, it's all good and fun but in the end I would always choose FRWL over DAF that's for sure.

    Rogue One finally elevated Star Wars to heights last seen in the early 80s.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I prefer TFA, but I did enjoy RO.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    The Force Awakens is nothing like DAF. If anything it's like TSWLM. Was it perfect? No but it was a nice return to form after the disappointing prequels. You wanna talk about Teen Drama? Look there.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,045
    I thought they were both pretty good but I'd have to go with Rogue One overall.
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