The Science - Science Fiction thread

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,523
    Yes, Dimi. It is beyond sad and more than alarming now.

    This, @4EverBonded, is where Trump demonstrates a persistent ignorance, feigned or not. Science, when conducted by what I can only presume to be well-educated, experienced and honest people, is not a matter of "belief". One can always submit their findings to falsification tests, or present counter-arguments backed up by empirical data. But a simple "I don't believe it" just won't do. You'd expect more from a president.

    Let's not forget that America used to be proud of its science, of its pioneering role in many a scientific field. To have its own science so blatantly, cowardly and ignorantly refuted by a presented who probably spent more time swallowing down today's hamburgers during lunchtime than actually studying relevant reports, is an insult to America. Trump is either a dangerously confused mind, a criminal or both.

    Compared to Trump's constant political friction, Watergate and "Lewinski-gate" are starting to feel like relatively innocent events.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    With all the real problems of pollution and ravaging of nature going on, the focus on carbondioxide is insane.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,523
    @Thunderfinger

    Let's say you're being serious, which I hope even your provocative self isn't, prey tell what you're talking about.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Carbondioxide is all I ever hear everyone harping on about. It even comes with a prize tag now. I don t get it. What s up with the patronizing tone?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited November 2018 Posts: 23,523
    @Thunderfinger

    Many environmental issues are being discussed in various media. Tremendous efforts are being made by various governments, organisations, ... to avoid or cure the plethora of problems that truly concern us all.

    Of all those things, global warming is the big one and carbon dioxide just happens to be the key player in that.

    We have effectively managed to stop the depletion of the ozone layer. We have effectively managed to restore the population of some threatened species. We are pushing back the land required to feed and provide for us all. We really are in a transformative stage. Efforts do pay off. But such efforts also require harsh measures sometimes. Taxes can help until we have found the intrinsic motivation. It should be easy but unfortunately, for most people reason isn't good enough.

    So yes, we, the people, sometimes have to be treated like little children, to have the message hammered in our heads. Because how else will we change our ways?
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,962

    Just a few quotes from that site:
    "Heartland focuses on effectively marketing the work of individuals and organizations that share its concern over the retreat of individual freedom and growth of government power in the U.S. In 2012, Heartland was acknowledged by The Economist to be “the world’s most prominent think tank promoting skepticism about man-made climate change.” The New York Times calls it “the primary American organization pushing climate change skepticism.”

    " Because we are not predisposed to believe climate change is caused by human greenhouse gas emissions, we are able to look at evidence the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) ignores. "

    So basically what they're saying is: 'what the government is saying is not true (because we hate the government) so we'll come up with alternative sources and reasons'.

    I find these people hard to believe. I used to be sceptical as well, mainly because a scientist I knew very well had good reasons to be so. Problem is, she was proven wrong (and admitted it).

    Now back to the report of Trumps disbelief: it's written by a panel of scientists from across the country who work for seperate institutions who come to the same conclusion as almost all scientists. There are always scientists who'll come up with alternate theories, but usually the main group is right. Now let's see what we've got: global (yearly average) temperatures are rising at breakneck speed. Far faster then any record in the ground ever found. At the same time as a human race we're exponentially polluting the planet with, above all, CO2. We know from contained experiments that CO2 traps heat. Now it could all be still coincidence and the planet is actually warming because god left his hairdrier on, but the likeliness of that is not impressive at all. And at the same time, with the ozone layer, scientists were right, the hole is gone now, and oddly enough less people get skincancer. Still, could be god's solarium of course...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    So, you didn t bother to read. And no, it s not what they are basically saying.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,962
    So, you didn t bother to read. And no, it s not what they are basically saying.
    I;m quoting litteraly from their website, what do you mean with 'didn't read'? To be clear, I read everything on that website, including their reports. So yes, their startpoint is, as they themselves claim, to deny the human factor in climate change. Then they proceed to make their point by
    1. claiming the more efficient combustion engines become, the less they pollute and thus the cleaner the air becomes. Completely ignoring the fact that the world's population is growing way faster, and it's wealth, offsetting this whole idea.
    2. Then the proced to claim that fossil fuels are responsible for our improved health since Roman times!!!!!, And these people still try to be taken seriously? I take it you do know health declined massively in the 18th and 19th century (due to enormous pollution of steam engines and coal burning for heating) and has improved since thanks to science, not engines.
    3. And I'll stop there, even though I could go on for pages on end, it's all based on a literature study. No own mesurements, no data collection, but using (random) conclusions of studies of which you don't know if they were done correctly to prove a point.

    It's called 'writing towards your conclusion' and has nothing to do with science. If anyone would come up with nonsense like this in my field of work people would laugh their arses off, but as you can see there are corporations willing to pay to scientists who prefer money over their work ethics.

    @Thunderfinger really, read it yourself. There are far better and more credible climate change deniers out there. They're wrong too but at least they have a scientific base they work from.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    "Climate change deniers", really? What does it even mean? Probably the same as "racists".
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,962
    "Climate change deniers", really? What does it even mean? Probably the same as "racists".

    Come on @Thunderfinger, the fact that you hate 'main stream ideas' doesn't mean all those alternative people are right. You know what it means, just as much as you know what 'racist' means. If you want an honest discussion, why would you be afraid of answers that don't suit your worldview? You can be conservative and understand that this planet is under threat just as much as you can be communist and want to drive a ferrari. I really don't know what's eating you, but as far as I can fathom you're an intelligent human beeing capable of critical thinking. So why not use those powers to analytically check fats on the basis of logic and likelyhood?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The planet is under threat, all right, by politically driven fearmongers.
  • Posts: 7,500
    "Climate change deniers", really? What does it even mean? Probably the same as "racists".

    Come on @Thunderfinger, the fact that you hate 'main stream ideas' doesn't mean all those alternative people are right. You know what it means, just as much as you know what 'racist' means. If you want an honest discussion, why would you be afraid of answers that don't suit your worldview? You can be conservative and understand that this planet is under threat just as much as you can be communist and want to drive a ferrari. I really don't know what's eating you, but as far as I can fathom you're an intelligent human beeing capable of critical thinking. So why not use those powers to analytically check fats on the basis of logic and likelyhood?


    Not worth it bothering with that guy, Commander...
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,962
    The planet is under threat, all right, by politically driven fearmongers.

    By an investation of 7 billion scavengers. If it was fearmongering, the go-to topic would be nationalism. Still works the best.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,523
    49092868_2746031318814692_874301186499411968_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.xx&oh=4f155d1d0b5931e04c93c8ab5286fe1e&oe=5CCE1EDD

    Idiots.
  • Posts: 12,506
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    49092868_2746031318814692_874301186499411968_n.png?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.xx&oh=4f155d1d0b5931e04c93c8ab5286fe1e&oe=5CCE1EDD

    Idiots.

    Lol! Brilliant!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited December 2018 Posts: 7,962
    They're all from the edge you see....


    pity they used 'globe', it's kind of not a globe if it's flat. they could've used 'world' and it would've worked.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    83ee1671dded841c3f35a2462aeafaa975dc692ed2da0c614afd48e872e9f1af.jpg
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,962
    In other news, there's a 13y/o building fusion reactors...

    https://www.foxnews.com/science/teen-builds-working-nuclear-fusion-reactor-in-memphis-home
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,523
    This kid could save the world.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,962
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • Posts: 7,500


    So many of Cassini's pictures of Saturn where artistic masterpieces!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,962

    Yes, it's been coming for years. Education, education, buying Ed.... I mean....
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,523
    @4EverBonded
    Sagan's book is one of my all-time favourites. I continue to pass it on amongst my students. Are you reading it from start to finish?
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