Dalton as Bond: TLD vs. LTK

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  • Posts: 12,526
    If really pushed on this as i like both movies? I would opt for LTK. Simply because of the stronger main villain and henchman. Also because of Dalton's stronger performance.
  • Nice interview with Cubby, Dalton and Robert Davi

  • Posts: 1,052
    I have always favoured LTK and Timbo's performance in it but since my last viewing of TLD i'm not so sure, I think they are probably on a par and Timbo is just as good in both!
  • Posts: 5,634
    License to Kill was the better Dalton performance, but Daylights for sure, was the better Bond release. The adversaries of 1989 were so much better than the one before, as only Necros really stood out as something to fear. But once again, it just lacks the feel of being a true Bond release. Even Timothy Dalton's superlative performance, probably the best since Connery in 1963, can't quite save it

    signing out
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Getafix wrote:
    The opening sequence in Prague is one of the best in the series and IMO beats anything in LTK.

    This comment hits the nail on the head.

    That opening sequence, which is basically the entire TLD short story, is one of the great (possibly the greatest) Fleming sequences committed to film and that enough elevates it above LTK. Dalton simply is Ian Flemings Bond in this scene. And thats without even mentioning the excellent PTS, the death of Saunders, the Pushkin interrogation and epic finale on the back of the plane.

    I also feel Dalton turns it up to 11 a bit too much in LTK with his performance coming across as a bit theatrical and hammy in parts.
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    The opening sequence in Prague is one of the best in the series and IMO beats anything in LTK.

    This comment hits the nail on the head.

    That opening sequence, which is basically the entire TLD short story, is one of the great (possibly the greatest) Fleming sequences committed to film and that enough elevates it above LTK. Dalton simply is Ian Flemings Bond in this scene. And thats without even mentioning the excellent PTS, the death of Saunders, the Pushkin interrogation and epic finale on the back of the plane.

    I also feel Dalton turns it up to 11 a bit too much in LTK with his performance coming across as a bit theatrical and hammy in parts.

    He does...he pushes it further and (I think) he comes off as a little over-dramatic in a couple of scenes.

    "TAKE ME TO HIM!!" Ooooh scary!!

    Dalton is quite dramatic as a performer. Even in the EoN documentary he sometimes looks like he's acting for an audience.

    Here was a hero who MURDERED in COLD BLOOD...BAM!BAM!BAM!BAM!BAM!...THE DIRTIEST, TOUGHEST, MEANEST, NASTIEST, BRUTALIST HERO...WE'D EVER SEEN!"

    I much prefer the Wogan interview in all honesty. At least he seems to be being himself.
  • JRRJRR
    edited April 2013 Posts: 74
    Dalton’s Bond was an agent with a definite moral code, very personal to his character, he always aimed to do the right thing for the right reasons, even if it would later be viewed as defying bureaucratic policy; this brought an endearing quality to his characterisation of 007.

    I don’t think it was his job he resented, after all Bond is a very competent and confident agent, it is more likely the deskbound decision makers who may have, through the distance of time, forgotten the unwritten rules of the field agent.

    Dalton’s 007 seemed very comfortable in any environment or company he kept, and his screen relationships held integrity whether being with close friends or subjected to the desires of his adversaries.

    He was able to wear the responsibilities of Bond with an untroubled appearance, and displayed a sharp intellect when circumstances altered to his potential disadvantage, enabling him to orchestrate solutions with future options. (The shooting of the sniper rifle and not the sniper in TLD displayed his instant ability to be flexible when the pressure was bearing down and recognise his target was a set-up, so he acted with a compassionate consideration to a stranger clearly out of her depth).

    Timothy Dalton’s role was above all things realistic, a tangible portrayal of Ian Fleming’s British spy during the Cold War era.

    TLD illustrated the realism of the 1980’s and LTK displayed the diversity of his lifestyle as an international agent, he offered authentic performances in both films and is still IMO an essential part of the James Bond past, and not to overlook, present and future influence.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,788
    L-) Perfect post example for us all.
  • TLD was definitely a Bond movie...formula and Fleming combined.

    But it was LTK which was really tailored for Dalton's likes because TLD was written with the other fellow in mind (no, not Connery sadly that other other guy).
  • Not once in TLD did Dalton say "hasheesh" or anythig which dumb....he was in Afghanistan after all and olus he didn't even use the word shit when seeing some oily black tar heroine in the plane. Booooo! It's funny how DAD tried to resuse elements of TLD in addition to GE alrrady taking some inspiration if not an actor from it for PB. After seeing Dalton's movies, I couldn't watch GE anymore. That whole upsidedown toilet punch was phony like the plane jump.
  • Posts: 28
    Licence to kill by a planes worth, not even close..........tailormade to Tomothy Dalton's strengths.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Dalton was 100000% better in the much better of his films,which is LTK.
  • Posts: 2,491
    I personally prefer LTK
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,348
    dragonsky wrote:
    I personally prefer LTK

    Same here.
  • LTK is my favorite. Dalton made it his own.
  • I watched LTK last night, fantastic film, perhaps the best bond film ever, so dark and gritty, Dalton was magnificent, he was good in tld but his performance in ltk shaded his previous encounter.
  • I really love LTK! I was so bloody scared of Sanchez when I was a kid, and I told him that when I met him back in september. He laughed at me... But yeah, I simply love the movie and Dalton is just amazing as Bond! I do like TLD, but I can't beat LTK...
  • I prefer TLD, it's one of my favs. :)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,788
    I prefer TLD, it's one of my favs. :)

    They're just different. Like Peking Duck is different from Russian Caviar. But I love 'em both.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 552
    TLD was written more as a "moore adventure" with Dalton adapting to fit that style, while LTK played more to his strengths.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,788
    TLD was written more as a "moore adventure" with Dalton adapting to fit that style, while LTK played more to his strengths.
    Agreed, yet they both rocked the casbah in separate but equal ways IMHO.
    ^:)^
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 11,425
    It's one of the great historical miscarriages of justice that we never got a third TD movie. Such a shame. It's also doubly sad because Cubby was still around during those 6 wasted years. We could have had at least two more classic Dalton-Cubby movies.

    I would have loved to see Dalton back in GE, but I do think things began to go quite badly wrong with Cubby first stepping back from GE and then of course sadly passing away. It's no secret that I am no fan of GE. Dalton's presence would have improved it, but I'm still not sure that even with the Daltonator that it would have been up to the standard of TLD and LTK. You can see how Dalton would have made some of the 'dramatic' scenes from the Brosnan era absolute classics, but overall those plots and films are pretty creaky. Would have loved to see how Dalton would have handled Morceau in TWINE. And Dalton with Monica Bellucci in TND would have been amazing.

    It has taken Babs and MGW a long time to begin to rediscover some of the old Cubby era magic. Some might argue they still haven't quite got there...
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Dalton is 20 years older than Bellucci. Not entirely sure whether the "old flame" angle would have worked convincingly for those two. He would have needed someone a bit closer to his own age.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,730
    Getafix wrote: »
    It's one of the great historical miscarriages of justice that we never got a third TD movie. Such a shame. It's also doubly sad because Cubby was still around during those 6 wasted years. We could have had at least two more classic Dalton-Cubby movies.

    I would have loved to see Dalton back in GE, but I do think things began to go quite badly wrong with Cubby first stepping back from GE and then of course sadly passing away. It's no secret that I am no fan of GE. Dalton's presence would have improved it, but I'm still not sure that even with the Daltonator that it would have been up to the standard of TLD and LTK. You can see how Dalton would have made some of the 'dramatic' scenes from the Brosnan era absolute classics, but overall those plots and films are pretty creaky. Would have loved to see how Dalton would have handled Morceau in TWINE. And Dalton with Monica Bellucci in TND would have been amazing.

    It has taken Babs and MGW a long time to begin to rediscover some of the old Cubby era magic. Some might argue they still haven't quite got there...

    Have to agree on all three counts here.

    The 2 'missed' Cubby/Dalton films in the early 90's could have solidified the 'darker' tone for Bond and would have most likely improved the Brosnan era as well (if it would have still happened at all...)

    GE surely played more to Dalton's strengths - it was not suited to Brosnan and it showed (TND on the other hand was, and is just more solid as a result).

    I feel all three of the Babs/Craig films have, individually, many elements that perfected 'The Dalton Tone' which started in TLD - it's just a shame that none of these elements have so far been combined in ONE FILM to make a REALLY strong Babs/Craig Bondfilm.

    Fingers crossed that SP(B24) has CR's narrative strength & script, QoS focus & urgency and SF classic appeal and cinematography...

  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited December 2014 Posts: 4,043
    I very much like Dalton as Bond but his entries are uneven and not really worthy of his interpretation, both TLD & LTK have some great moments and I now think on a recent watch of both that TLD is now the stronger of the 2.

    My most recent watch of LTK really had moments that made me cringe, I would have just liked a straight up gritty take but shoehorning Q in, that sequence with gadget case was just terrible and him being an operative for Bond with a fake moustache and that ridiculous broom. It has it's moments, the PTS, Bond on Krest's boat and the assault on Sanchez's office, the climax is great for the most part but then it all gets undone with that ridiculous cheesy sign off, that being said I prefer to most of the Moore's a few of the Connery's and all of Brosnan's

    TLD has a cracking PTS and for the most part it's great the whole first half, just too much Rog hang overs, not particularly great villains but on a whole a entertaining film plus Barry's great Bond swan song of a score.

    So TLD for me.
  • Posts: 11,425
    AceHole wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    It's one of the great historical miscarriages of justice that we never got a third TD movie. Such a shame. It's also doubly sad because Cubby was still around during those 6 wasted years. We could have had at least two more classic Dalton-Cubby movies.

    I would have loved to see Dalton back in GE, but I do think things began to go quite badly wrong with Cubby first stepping back from GE and then of course sadly passing away. It's no secret that I am no fan of GE. Dalton's presence would have improved it, but I'm still not sure that even with the Daltonator that it would have been up to the standard of TLD and LTK. You can see how Dalton would have made some of the 'dramatic' scenes from the Brosnan era absolute classics, but overall those plots and films are pretty creaky. Would have loved to see how Dalton would have handled Morceau in TWINE. And Dalton with Monica Bellucci in TND would have been amazing.

    It has taken Babs and MGW a long time to begin to rediscover some of the old Cubby era magic. Some might argue they still haven't quite got there...

    Have to agree on all three counts here.

    The 2 'missed' Cubby/Dalton films in the early 90's could have solidified the 'darker' tone for Bond and would have most likely improved the Brosnan era as well (if it would have still happened at all...)

    GE surely played more to Dalton's strengths - it was not suited to Brosnan and it showed (TND on the other hand was, and is just more solid as a result).

    I feel all three of the Babs/Craig films have, individually, many elements that perfected 'The Dalton Tone' which started in TLD - it's just a shame that none of these elements have so far been combined in ONE FILM to make a REALLY strong Babs/Craig Bondfilm.

    Fingers crossed that SP(B24) has CR's narrative strength & script, QoS focus & urgency and SF classic appeal and cinematography...

    Agree. None of the DC films have fully hit the nail on the head IMO. Each has its strengths but none of them does everything well at the same time. Not that many Bond films have, to be fair, but I still don't feel DC has been given the classic movie he deserves. Overall the Craig era is a huge step up from the previous decade, but I still want and expect a whole lot more.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,730
    Getafix wrote: »
    Agree. None of the DC films have fully hit the nail on the head IMO. Each has its strengths but none of them does everything well at the same time. Not that many Bond films have, to be fair, but I still don't feel DC has been given the classic movie he deserves. Overall the Craig era is a huge step up from the previous decade, but I still want and expect a whole lot more.

    I have (somewhere in my mind) some optimistically magic image of a perfectly executed combo of FRWL, OHMSS, TLD and CR that together forges the perfect, quintessential Bondfilm...
    Hope Babs and co. have this same image somewhere, ready to be unleashed
    :D
  • Posts: 11,425
    AceHole wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Agree. None of the DC films have fully hit the nail on the head IMO. Each has its strengths but none of them does everything well at the same time. Not that many Bond films have, to be fair, but I still don't feel DC has been given the classic movie he deserves. Overall the Craig era is a huge step up from the previous decade, but I still want and expect a whole lot more.

    I have (somewhere in my mind) some optimistically magic image of a perfectly executed combo of FRWL, OHMSS, TLD and CR that together forges the perfect, quintessential Bondfilm...
    Hope Babs and co. have this same image somewhere, ready to be unleashed
    :D

    I think Mendes' reference points are more like LALD.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    Some have commented on the 'cheese' in TLD & in LTK. I agree, there are some definite 'cheesy' moments in both films. That, unfortunately, is a product of when these movies were made, namely the 80's. The epitome of cheese.

    That's why it's such a shame that Dalton did not have a chance to continue. He was before his time.

    I think by the mid 90's that 80's cheese effect had been gone long enough from movies that they could have tackled the serious issues that they wanted to tackle with Bond's character in a more productive fashion, with Dalton. Unfortunately, they chose to go the route of dumbed down North American style action during this period with Brosnan, and were eventually shown up by Austin Powers/Bourne/XXX etc.., thereby necessitating the fundamental rethink.

    The 90's were such a missed opportunity imo..
  • Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »

    The 90's were such a missed opportunity imo..

    Totally agree. Really feel we missed out on a potential golden era. The timing was totally right for something much more in the Dalton mould, but we went back to sub-Roger stuff and lame uninspired action.

    EON has not been great at anticipating or leading the pack for quite some time.
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