Bond misses David Arnold

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  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,314
    It might be appropriate to update this thread with the following interview.
    Neil Alcock (The Incredible Suit) questions David Arnold.

    Interesting bits:
    -CR music was more organic because DA fitted it to DC's physicality and alpha-maleness.
    - The Bond theme in CR is hinted at whenever Bond acquired another bit of his typical attributes (winning the Aston, putting on the tux…).
    - DA prefers to have the DNA of the score represented in the title song, but admits that's not always possible when the artist insists on not changing the track.
    - DA has no interest in a "Shaken and Stirred" album part II.
    - DA believes that action movie soundtracks nowadays have to compete with a lot of noise from the other Dolby channels, whereas in John Barry's time it was simple stereo. The new sound recording technology means that music has a different role, accentuating the sound in front of the camera.
    - He actually quite likes what Eric Serra has done with the GE score.
    - The sound of Le Chiffre's rope touching Bond's "behind" was turned down by half, because censors objected to the excruciating sound.
    - Madness is DA's term for the slide whistle in the TMWTGG car jump and the double-taking pigeon in MR.
    - DA would like to score Independence Day II if the producers asked him to.

  • David Arnold has run his course. Five was more than enough. If Newman doesn't score Bond 25 then just get the best, Alexandre Desplat.
  • edited July 2015 Posts: 11,425
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Having watched SF today I found the music of it far more organic and fitting than the last two soundtracks by DA. Newmans work leaves a lot to be desired but his skill and composing is certainly worth listening for, I would hope that with Bond24 he'll bring his A game and then we are in for a treat.

    I agree. Moreover, DA did not exactly put up his A-game either. I still think we're comparing too much with John Barry. The days of Barry, Goldsmith & Morricone are over. Melodies aren't composed anymore. Music is following the movie scenes much more closely as of today. You can't enjoy them separately as much as 40 years ago.

    Therefore it's not really fair to say DA is "more John Barry" than TN. Both composers are no John Barry at all. Having said though, I think the "Skyfall" has better re-listening value. It's composed slightly more skillfully and with more creativity. It also has more "layers" compared to DA in my opinion.

    The thing that David Arnold could do that Thomas Newman cannot, is co-write a good title song, produce the title song and then work that and other repeating themes and motifs into the score itself . That is arguably the defining characteristic of a good Bond score.

    It's becAuse Arnold has that flexibility that I think he was better suited to Bond than Newman. Just like Martin was perfect for LALD because of his pop production credentiAls.

    I can't actually think of another composer working now who could do this. Randy Newman?!

    I don't think Arnold comes close to Barry's genius but I do think he produced better and more memorable melodies and themes than Arnold, especially in CR and QoS.

    I watched the Second Best Marigold Hotel yesterday and thought the music was okay. Turned out it was by Thomas Newman. Most of it is just borrowed Bollywood tunes though.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,052
    zebrafish wrote: »
    It might be appropriate to update this thread with the following interview.
    Neil Alcock (The Incredible Suit) questions David Arnold.

    Interesting bits:
    -CR music was more organic because DA fitted it to DC's physicality and alpha-maleness.
    - The Bond theme in CR is hinted at whenever Bond acquired another bit of his typical attributes (winning the Aston, putting on the tux…).
    - DA prefers to have the DNA of the score represented in the title song, but admits that's not always possible when the artist insists on not changing the track.
    - DA has no interest in a "Shaken and Stirred" album part II.
    - DA believes that action movie soundtracks nowadays have to compete with a lot of noise from the other Dolby channels, whereas in John Barry's time it was simple stereo. The new sound recording technology means that music has a different role, accentuating the sound in front of the camera.
    - He actually quite likes what Eric Serra has done with the GE score.
    - The sound of Le Chiffre's rope touching Bond's "behind" was turned down by half, because censors objected to the excruciating sound.
    - Madness is DA's term for the slide whistle in the TMWTGG car jump and the double-taking pigeon in MR.
    - DA would like to score Independence Day II if the producers asked him to.

    He's a very interesting guy to listen to. I met him in February when I went to his concert and you can feel the energy he gives off from across the room. Lots of life experience in there.
  • Something else that's really interesting that was revealed in that interview is that David Arnold had written part of a song for Die Another Day—and apparently both the verse melody and the bridge melody made it into his score.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,052
    Something else that's really interesting that was revealed in that interview is that David Arnold had written part of a song for Die Another Day—and apparently both the verse melody and the bridge melody made it into his score.

    That is true. After it became apparent how little he had to work with when Madonna's theme tune was revealed, he had to.
  • Posts: 582
    I like Arnold's scores, but they did get a bit repetitive.
  • Posts: 7,653
    CR & QoB were both poor soundtracks among the ones that have been done in this franchise. SF was not much better and SP I have not yet heard.

    I think that the Craig era has offered not the best music the franchise had to offer, I would go as far in stating that every Bond era was better. I would like it if EON started looking for some decent composer for 007 in this new century.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,335
    I'd go with Joe Kraemer. I love Arnold's work but CR started a trend where the James Bond theme is no longer allowed to be played when Bond does something badass. Now it has to be barely used for some reason.

    I know people complain about it being overused in TND but I thought it was awesome. The JB theme is a character as much as Bond himself. It shouldn't be restrained anymore. It's not hard to weave it into music either.
  • Posts: 1,098
    Yes.........i do miss Arnolds music in Bond films.......though i think Thomas Newman did a very good job with SF.
    I thought Eric Serra's music is GE was very low key, and a relatively weak point in an otherwise very good film. Then TND came along, and Dave Arnold's score for that film was terrific, which really lifted the film.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2015 Posts: 8,029
    Murdock wrote: »
    I know people complain about it being overused in TND but I thought it was awesome. The JB theme is a character as much as Bond himself. It shouldn't be restrained anymore. It's not hard to weave it into music either.
    And some accuse Newman of being lazy. Relying on the Bond theme as a crutch every time Bond does something "badass" or even moments that aren't worth bringing it is lazy and lessens the theme as it starts to sound like more of a parody. I'm thinking of a moment in TND where after Bond's "they'll print anything", he's casually strolling through the factory and the Bond guitar is playing along. It's not a special moment, it's just Bond walking along.

    As much as I love the theme, I agree with many that it's way overused in that film. Just as I thought it was misused in FRWL where Bond is just checking for bugs in the hotel room and the theme is just blaring. Of course, that was tracking music, not a part of the recording of FRWL, but still an odd place to put it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,335
    Murdock wrote: »
    I know people complain about it being overused in TND but I thought it was awesome. The JB theme is a character as much as Bond himself. It shouldn't be restrained anymore. It's not hard to weave it into music either.
    And some accuse Newman of being lazy. Relying on the Bond theme as a crutch every time Bond does something "badass" or even moments that aren't worth bringing it is lazy and lessens the theme as it starts to sound like more of a parody. I'm thinking of a moment in TND where after Bond's "they'll print anything", he's casually strolling through the factory and the Bond guitar is playing along. It's not a special moment, it's just Bond walking along.

    As much as I love the theme, I agree with many that it's way overused in that film. Just as I thought it was misused in FRWL where Bond is just checking for bugs in the hotel room and the theme is just blaring. Of course, that was tracking music, not a part of the recording of FRWL, but still an odd place to put it.

    I'd rather have More Bond theme then little to none. I can't stand this modern themeless generic music. A Bond score needs a good helping of James Bond theme. As for that moment at Carver's Press, don't bother me. Bond's a badass and it was used perfectly. It doesn't lessen the theme or turn it into parody. I guess the Star Wars theme by John Williams was overused and made Star Wars a parody, Or Jerry Goldsmith's Star Trek theme. I guess those were parodies too.

    What I thought was overused was the version from Dr. No used in FRWL, YOLT and OHMSS instead of a new arrangement for each film. I wouldn't have a problem if the last few films used it fully at least once in pivotal moment.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    Williams and Goldsmith knew when to bring their themes at the right moment, just as Barry did. There are are right moments in TND to bring it, but there are odd moments as well that lessen it for me.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,335
    Williams and Goldsmith knew when to bring their themes at the right moment, just as Barry did. There are are right moments in TND to bring it, but there are odd moments as well that lessen it for me.
    Well that's just TND. Arnold has said that TND was his magnum opus the Bond score he's always wanted to hear. In the other films he knew when to place it at the right time. TWINE and DAD had perfect uses of the Bond theme. Then after that it became almost non existant. That's my beef.
  • I missed Arnold in Skyfall. It would have been nice to hear some of Arnold's Barry nods, which Newman failed to do in Skyfall.
    You're right that Newman's score omitted references to Barry's scores, but Adele's atmospheric SKYFALL] theme song had them in bucket-loads.

  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    The big, bombastic Barry-esque, Williams-esque type scores would not have worked for SF. Newman's work was nearly perfect.
  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    Posts: 403
    TND is one of my favourite soundtracks and I overall loved what Arnold brought to the table. I liked Newman's SF score, but it sounds like SP's is going to leave me cold, which is a damn shame. I agree with Murdock, the theme can be played anytime Bond does something cool.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    edited October 2015 Posts: 1,727
    The days of Barry, Goldsmith & Morricone are over. Melodies aren't composed anymore. Music is following the movie scenes much more closely as of today. You can't enjoy them separately as much as 40 years ago.

    Which is exactly why the Bond franchise needs to buck this trend and be different. But Babs does not have the creative vision to see or implement this. She is not bother about the musical side of things.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I find nothing offensive in Newman's score but also there is nothing
    Really memorable about it either.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    AceHole wrote: »
    The days of Barry, Goldsmith & Morricone are over. Melodies aren't composed anymore. Music is following the movie scenes much more closely as of today. You can't enjoy them separately as much as 40 years ago.

    Which is exactly why the Bond franchise needs to buck this trend and be different. But Babs does not have the creative vision to see or implement this. She is not bother about the musical side of things.

    I agree. There are several composers out there who are delivering superb melodic scores for film, and most notably for tv (Game of Thrones or Penny Dreadful come to mind). EON just doesn't seem to give a 's'. If they keep churning out $bn films with mediocre music, they won't be convinced that it's worth trying.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Come on, can someone lock this topic? We already have so many "David Arnold" topics. Even a "Thomas Newman has to leave: YES or NO" topic. They all result in the same tiresome discussion...
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,052
    Come on, can someone lock this topic? We already have so many "David Arnold" topics. Even a "Thomas Newman has to leave: YES or NO" topic. They all result in the same tiresome discussion...

    There actually aren't any David Arnold specific threads, to be fair. We could possibly rename it to an Appreciation Topic, so Arnold and Newman have one for their respective fans.
  • tqbtqb
    Posts: 1,022
    Michael Giacchino
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,335
    Come on, can someone lock this topic? We already have so many "David Arnold" topics. Even a "Thomas Newman has to leave: YES or NO" topic. They all result in the same tiresome discussion...
    If you have a problem with it don't click on the thread. It's a genuine discussion, just because you don't agree doesn't mean it should be closed to appease you.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Murdock wrote: »
    Come on, can someone lock this topic? We already have so many "David Arnold" topics. Even a "Thomas Newman has to leave: YES or NO" topic. They all result in the same tiresome discussion...
    If you have a problem with it don't click on the thread. It's a genuine discussion, just because you don't agree doesn't mean it should be closed to appease you.

    Indeed Murdock. I presume, Gustav, you are also going to include your own Thomas Newman Appreciation thread in your crackdown?

    Talk about free speech. Are you Max Denbigh in disguise?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Bond doesn't miss David Arnold.

    It just needs a more creative composer. There are several out there (including in the TV space) and EON should focus on it post-Mendes imho, rather than going back to a formulaic if respectful fan of the series who has perhaps done all he is capable of (creatively) for the franchise (surely after 5 attempts........)
  • Posts: 582
    bondjames wrote: »
    Bond doesn't miss David Arnold.

    It just needs a more creative composer. There are several out there (including in the TV space) and EON should focus on it post-Mendes imho, rather than going back to a formulaic if respectful fan of the series who has perhaps done all he is capable of (creatively) for the franchise (surely after 5 attempts........)

    I completely agree with you.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    edited October 2015 Posts: 1,727
    bondjames wrote: »
    Bond doesn't miss David Arnold.

    It just needs a more creative composer. There are several out there (including in the TV space) and EON should focus on it post-Mendes imho, rather than going back to a formulaic if respectful fan of the series who has perhaps done all he is capable of (creatively) for the franchise (surely after 5 attempts........)

    I concur. Bond missed the spirit & heart that Arnold brought to his scores - but surely he has had his chance with it, and didn't really hit any great heights other than a couple of cues in TND & CR each...
  • I watched Spectre this morning and the franchise doesn't miss Arnold at all. Newman nails this score big time. Gorgeous music for the female characters, thrilling action music that has direction rather than Arnold's aimless homogeneous undifferentiated crash bang wallop, fabulous atmospheric cues. Five is enough, no more Arnold, please. In fact if it was my decision, I'd sign Newman for Bond 25.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    None of Newman's scores had characterization given to them, and I was vastly disappointed with his contribution ever since Skyfall, along with Spectre being an addition to the case. While I wouldn't mind Arnold coming back, I would rather they employ someone who doesn't write background syncs and gives each track a chronological melody like John Barry did. A tune you could be humming and not have dozens of violins and cellos hitting random notes and releasing unbearable sounds. No more Newman. In fact, I'd rather they wouldn't head towards Hans Zimmer either, who "invented" the issue I addressed above.
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