Bond misses David Arnold

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  • Oh no, I´m pretty hard to please, it´s just the fact that SF had all the elements I want in a modern Bond, including brilliant music!
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Oh no, I´m pretty hard to please, it´s just the fact that SF had all the elements I want in a modern Bond, including brilliant music!


    Then we watched two different movies both named Skyfall.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Walecs wrote:
    Oh no, I´m pretty hard to please, it´s just the fact that SF had all the elements I want in a modern Bond, including brilliant music!


    Then we watched two different movies both named Skyfall.

    I concur with @Walecs, a different movie.
    O:-)
  • Walecs wrote:
    Oh no, I´m pretty hard to please, it´s just the fact that SF had all the elements I want in a modern Bond, including brilliant music!


    Then we watched two different movies both named Skyfall.
    SaintMark wrote:
    Walecs wrote:
    Oh no, I´m pretty hard to please, it´s just the fact that SF had all the elements I want in a modern Bond, including brilliant music!


    Then we watched two different movies both named Skyfall.

    I concur with @Walecs, a different movie.
    O:-)

    Small world...
  • A main ingredient of the Bond films has always been the music. Barry's scores gave the movies a certain feel. The soundtrack for me was almost like a regular character, under-pinning the action without getting in the way - even when it was big and brassy. Bond Averts World War 3 or Mountains and Sunsets (YOLT), Operation Rock-a-bye baby (GF) Street Chase (TB). It gave the films their personality. IMO Arnold picked up the mantle beautifully. Talking of nods to Barry Vesper could have been written by him. Thomas Newman missed the mark with Skyfall - such a shame. That said it could never be as totally off the mark as Legrand and (Never) IMO
  • Mark_HazzardMark_Hazzard Classified
    Posts: 127
    What seems crucial for a Bond score to me is that the main composer should be involved with the main theme. John Barry was always involved with the theme song, which he then brilliantly mixed into his own score. This worked for Arnold as well with TWINE and CR, and of course his end credits score 'Surrender' blended in perfectly in TND.

    I'm not entirely sure but I thought that Adele's work on SF began late during post-production and therefore Newman didn't have a lot of time to incorporate it into his score.

    Writing themes like '"Surrender", "The World Is Not Enough" and "You Know My Name" have made me extremely confident that Arnold can deliver a fantastic job of Barry proportions. By the way has anyone noticed the riffs from Arnold and Bassey's "No good without goodbye" in QoS? Shame the song didn't make it into the film.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,738
    @Mark_Hazzard

    You're certainly correct about No Good About Goodbye. Not only do I love that song very much, I too recognise a couple cues from the QOS score. I wish QOS could have used it as its OT music. That abomination they fetched for the final cut, AWTD, left me speechless when I first heard it - and not speechless with admiration...
  • Posts: 11,425
    I thought Adele's song was actually written with enough time to allow Newman to referenceit, but he simply didn't want to. We got one lame referencein Macau. I will be very happyif Newman does not return.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,738
    @Getafix, I thought I had heard otherwise, that Newman didn't have enough time to wait for Adele. I could be wrong though.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,352
    According to the soundtrack the song was first recorded in May 2012, so make up your own mind on that one.
  • Mark_HazzardMark_Hazzard Classified
    Posts: 127
    Apparently Adele started recording in 2011 I found now:
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/3851837/Adele-records-new-James-Bond-track.html

    I guess Newman didn't thought there was much need for incorporating the song:
    http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=10217

    Too bad. I actually like the cues in "Komodo Dragon". Wished he had done that more often.

    But let's not get off topic: DA should return to the franchise. I would like to see him working with Adele and Paul Epworth.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,738
    Some say SF is just a very sloooooow version of the Bond Theme. Maybe Newman was bothered by that? ;-)
  • Posts: 1,631
    Whatever his reasons were, I'm glad that Newman didn't reference "Skyfall" more than he did in his score.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Big fan of David Arnold's work and would love to see him back, but
    I'd say Newman will be back as Mendes musician of choice.
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 11,425
    Apparently Adele started recording in 2011 I found now:
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/3851837/Adele-records-new-James-Bond-track.html

    I guess Newman didn't thought there was much need for incorporating the song:
    http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=10217

    Too bad. I actually like the cues in "Komodo Dragon". Wished he had done that more often.

    But let's not get off topic: DA should return to the franchise. I would like to see him working with Adele and Paul Epworth.

    This has all been covered in detail in the Thomas Newman thread.

    Basically Newman had ample opportunity to include the title theme a lot more if he'd wanted to. Instead, as EON's insistence, it is referenced once, and this part of the score was not even written by Newman who claims he 'didn't have time', and delegated it to one of his team.

    However, I do accept the argument that why should Newman include a theme in which he'd not been invited to collaborate. So I think it's essential that in future it is made very explicit that the composer must collaborate with the title tract artist, as Barry and Arnold often did, particularly if the artist/performer wants to compose the song themselves. It should be a basic given on every Bond movie. Artist and composer working totally independently should not be allowed as it is to the detriment of the films.
  • Posts: 1,146
    I didn't mind the Newman SF score, but enjoy Arnold's stuff.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2014 Posts: 23,883
    As I have said on other threads, I am very much hoping Arnold does not return. I completely agree with @PeterGreenhill regarding Arnold's action scoring. For the most part, it's generic, loud & dull, made more so by the fact that he attempts to imitate Barry and ends up with a B grade version of the master's sound. Unfortunately, it reminds me of the 90's when Bond was going through the motions in many ways/areas IMO but not coming close to its heyday in quality (& ending up with what seemed to me to be a poor imitation/caricature).

    He has had some good moments over his 5 film run, most recently in QoS & CR, which were his better efforts in my mind. However, I still don't think he is of the right calibre to be scoring Bond now that the general quality level has gone up across the board in other areas since Craig has come on board. In my mind, he was more suited to Brosnan's time (and reminds me of that time).

    I'd welcome Newman or someone else. I actually prefer when new composers come along from time to time and shake it up. I realize Newman was not to everyone's liking, but his sound was fresh in certain parts & it was good to hear something different (and to some extent inventive - particularly in Shanghai, when Bond was on the boat with Severine, & when Bond was going to visit the new MI6 bunker). I noticed some finesse in Newmans' action scoring (even in the finale scenes in Scotland) that is sorely missed in Arnold's work.

    I do agree with others who have said that the title track must be incorporated in the score. That is something that is unforgivable if not done. However, I believe in some cases (not all) there are business reasons for this not happening (composer and artist not represented by the same company, or creative differences, or lack of time). It is something that the producers should insist on in the future. They should also insist that the artist come up with a melodic tune (unlike that showboater Madonna) so that it can credibly be incorporated into the soundtrack score.

    Having seen Interstellar twice, I am now sold on Hans Zimmer. He did absolutely terrific work in that movie. Eargasmic has been thrown around a bit, and that is what his score for that movie is. If he can give Bond the respect that he should (and that's my concern), Zimmer would deliver a masterclass score. Otherwise, I'm happy with Newman or someone new. I'm even open to Trent Reznor.

    And I'm sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with the thread originator. CR's score, while very good for Arnold, is nowhere near the 'best ever' for this 50 year series. I recommend listening carefully to TB & OHMSS for exceptional scoring, or the absolutely magnificent TLD for a different version of the Bond sound (think Bond meets Michael Jackson's Bad - Synthesizers & all)
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    After the disappointing Skyfall soundtrack, I've found a new appreciation for Arnold. At least he tried to integrate the theme songs into the soundtrack and when he did that, those parts sound really good - it puts me in a "Bond mood". And I really enjoy listening to the melody parts of "Backseat Driver" and "007 Your Time is Up" - the latter makes the TWINE pre-title so much more epic.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Eric Serra's score was fresh and different from Barry's, yet it is not one of the most appreciated scores in the series.

    In other words "freshness and difference" do not mean "good score"
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I love D Arnold's work on the Bond film. :)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2014 Posts: 23,883
    Interesting. I don't seem to recall saying that freshness and difference necessarily meant good score. I think that's rather self evident. However, I like them to toss it up a bit.

    I liked Serra's score and thought it suited GE perfectly BTW.

    To each their own I guess. I was happy Arnold did not do SF & I am anxiously awaiting the announcement for composer on B24. If it's Arnold, I'll lick my wounds and look to other parts of the movie to enjoy.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2014 Posts: 12,459
    I really enjoy Arnold's work on TND and CR. And parts of QOS, yes. I would be happy for him to return for a Bond film. Newman did not impress me (in spite of credentials and some good nuances). Waste of a truly lovely, haunting theme song; that alone is a shame. If he returns, I know he has the skills, he just has to really give us a better Bond score. He could do it, sure, but will he? Doubtful. And with the friction that was involved with Skyfall, why would he want to do another Bond film? Unless he is that good of friends with Mendes. I don't think he would want to, honestly. All in all, I'm happy for a totally new composer to be given a chance, too.
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 7,653
    Having watched SF today I found the music of it far more organic and fitting than the last two soundtracks by DA. Newmans work leaves a lot to be desired but his skill and composing is certainly worth listening for, I would hope that with Bond24 he'll bring his A game and then we are in for a treat.
  • SaintMark wrote: »
    Having watched SF today I found the music of it far more organic and fitting than the last two soundtracks by DA. Newmans work leaves a lot to be desired but his skill and composing is certainly worth listening for, I would hope that with Bond24 he'll bring his A game and then we are in for a threat.

    Can't say I agree with you at all in this regard. Also considering Newman I take the term "threat" literally.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    That is amusing. I did not catch that. I think @SaintMark meant to type "treat." ;)
  • Posts: 7,653
    That is amusing. I did not catch that. I think @SaintMark meant to type "treat." ;)

    I actually did mean treat, and I feel ashamed by the mistake as the difference between the two is one letter and a world of difference.

  • SaintMark wrote: »
    That is amusing. I did not catch that. I think @SaintMark meant to type "treat." ;)

    I actually did mean treat, and I feel ashamed by the mistake as the difference between the two is one letter and a world of difference.

    Never mind.Happens to me (and the autocorrection )all the time, only in this case the chance of having a joke at Newmans expense was to good to ignore.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    ... that would be "too" good to ignore. ;)
  • SaintMark wrote: »
    Having watched SF today I found the music of it far more organic and fitting than the last two soundtracks by DA. Newmans work leaves a lot to be desired but his skill and composing is certainly worth listening for, I would hope that with Bond24 he'll bring his A game and then we are in for a treat.

    I agree. Moreover, DA did not exactly put up his A-game either. I still think we're comparing too much with John Barry. The days of Barry, Goldsmith & Morricone are over. Melodies aren't composed anymore. Music is following the movie scenes much more closely as of today. You can't enjoy them separately as much as 40 years ago.

    Therefore it's not really fair to say DA is "more John Barry" than TN. Both composers are no John Barry at all. Having said though, I think the "Skyfall" has better re-listening value. It's composed slightly more skillfully and with more creativity. It also has more "layers" compared to DA in my opinion.
  • ... that would be "too" good to ignore. ;)
    As I said, happens to me all the time.

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