Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I still prefer LTK. "License to Kill" features a realistic, believable story. Add to it the equal ruthlessness of Bond and Sanchez in their respective portrayals by Dalton and Davi and you have a movie that will stand out over time as one of the best in the series.
    LTK has a lot of issues, mostly cosmetic/style related (including Dalton's hair!) and acting related (all the jokers in Florida!). I can appreciate how some found it offputting in 1989.

    However, as you say, it's consistent and realistic. Tonally I find it more balanced than TLD, which tries to marry Dalton's approach with Sir Rog's previous style, and not so successfully imho.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I seem to be the only one that liked Everett Mcgill in the role.

    I too thought he was very good in the part.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I seem to be the only one that liked Everett Mcgill in the role.

    I too thought he was very good in the part.

    No,you arnt alone good Dr.

    I thought he was excellent in the role,a real slimeball...perfect for LTK.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,534
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I seem to be the only one that liked Everett Mcgill in the role.

    I too thought he was very good in the part.

    No,you arnt alone good Dr.

    I thought he was excellent in the role,a real slimeball...perfect for LTK.

    Count me in on that, too, a definite slimeball, fits the role wonderfully.
  • Posts: 11,189
    He's a caricature cigar chomping agent. As I said I always laugh in the opening interrogation scene after the credits.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Im commenting on this in the Appreciation Thread peeps,just in case we derail this one !!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    He's a caricature cigar chomping agent. As I said I always laugh in the opening interrogation scene after the credits.
    A poor caricature of an American villain imho, which the Bond series tends to do only too often.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited March 2017 Posts: 5,131
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I seem to be the only one that liked Everett Mcgill in the role.

    I too thought he was very good in the part.

    I thought he was fine. "Get a hold of yourselves".
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I still prefer LTK. "License to Kill" features a realistic, believable story. Add to it the equal ruthlessness of Bond and Sanchez in their respective portrayals by Dalton and Davi and you have a movie that will stand out over time as one of the best in the series.

    Personally I wouldn't call it one of the best in the series, nor do I believe that it will be seen that way over time. There's nothing particularly unique in it that hasn't been executed better elsewhere in the series, unlike the obvious qualities of OHMSS.

    It does what it does well, in part, but in its effort to be relentlessly hard edged it loses all sense of levity. Fleming largely struck a great balance of danger and verve - something, more recently, I feel CR captured expertly. I'd plump for its predecessor striking a better balance overall and I think Dalton realised this too.

    It's a film with some excellent moments that I certainly wouldn't change, but with its made for TV feel, its disjointed tone and its inability to capture the otherworldly qualities that bless the best of Bond pictures (it forgets the flashes of fantasy and the bizarre in favour of straight realism) I can't see it ever sitting up there with the classics.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    RC7 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I still prefer LTK. "License to Kill" features a realistic, believable story. Add to it the equal ruthlessness of Bond and Sanchez in their respective portrayals by Dalton and Davi and you have a movie that will stand out over time as one of the best in the series.

    Personally I wouldn't call it one of the best in the series, nor do I believe that it will be seen that way over time. There's nothing particularly unique in it that hasn't been executed better elsewhere in the series, unlike the obvious qualities of OHMSS.

    It does what it does well, in part, but in its effort to be relentlessly hard edged it loses all sense of levity. Fleming largely struck a great balance of danger and verve - something, more recently, I feel CR captured expertly. I'd plump for its predecessor striking a better balance overall and I think Dalton realised this too.

    It's a film with some excellent moments that I certainly wouldn't change, but with its made for TV feel, its disjointed tone and its inability to capture the otherworldly qualities that bless the best of Bond pictures (it forgets the flashes of fantasy and the bizarre in favour of straight realism) I can't see it ever sitting up there with the classics.

    I agree wholeheartedly!
  • Posts: 19,339
    I dont....LTK 1000000% for me.
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    I actually like Sam Smith's title track, Writings On The Wall. I guess that's kind of controversial??
  • Posts: 7,653
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I think it's pretty good, but he's supposed to be singing from Bond's perspective, and Bond should never sound like a whining young woman. That is my problem with it.

    I never had the feeling that any title song should be from Bonds perspective, they should be decent to good. The only movie that failed to deliver was QoB that was utter tripe.

  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I think it's pretty good, but he's supposed to be singing from Bond's perspective, and Bond should never sound like a whining young woman. That is my problem with it.

    That's a fair comment. I guess it's Smith's style that may out some off.

  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,722
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I think it's pretty good, but he's supposed to be singing from Bond's perspective, and Bond should never sound like a whining young woman. That is my problem with it.

    I never had the feeling that any title song should be from Bonds perspective, they should be decent to good. The only movie that failed to deliver was QoB that was utter tripe.
    QoB? Either way, when they released the first video of Another Way To Die I thought they couldn't possibly mean it. Then when I first saw/heard it in context (as the theme song along with the credits), I thought it wasn't really bad altogether. Still not a fan (it's probably down there in the dungeons along with Madonna's dirge and Lulu's attempt), but it works with QOS...to the extent that anything works with QOS.
  • Posts: 7,653
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I think it's pretty good, but he's supposed to be singing from Bond's perspective, and Bond should never sound like a whining young woman. That is my problem with it.

    I never had the feeling that any title song should be from Bonds perspective, they should be decent to good. The only movie that failed to deliver was QoB that was utter tripe.
    QoB? Either way, when they released the first video of Another Way To Die I thought they couldn't possibly mean it. Then when I first saw/heard it in context (as the theme song along with the credits), I thought it wasn't really bad altogether. Still not a fan (it's probably down there in the dungeons along with Madonna's dirge and Lulu's attempt), but it works with QOS...to the extent that anything works with QOS.

    A wicked and funny comment, I can really enjoy.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I can live with them all except for FYEO and WoTW, which both frankly almost sicken me.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I think it's pretty good, but he's supposed to be singing from Bond's perspective, and Bond should never sound like a whining young woman. That is my problem with it.

    My feelings exactly.
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    I think it's pretty good, but he's supposed to be singing from Bond's perspective, and Bond should never sound like a whining young woman. That is my problem with it.

    The song would have been immensely better had it been sung by a whining young woman. Or just a young woman. I've heard female covers of the song on YouTube that are really quite excellent. It's definitely written for a certain vocal range, and whenever Smith pushes himself into that terrible falsetto the song collapses entirely. The music behind the vocals isn't bad though. Not particularly Bondian apart from the intro, but not bad either.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    RC7 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I still prefer LTK. "License to Kill" features a realistic, believable story. Add to it the equal ruthlessness of Bond and Sanchez in their respective portrayals by Dalton and Davi and you have a movie that will stand out over time as one of the best in the series.

    Personally I wouldn't call it one of the best in the series, nor do I believe that it will be seen that way over time. There's nothing particularly unique in it that hasn't been executed better elsewhere in the series, unlike the obvious qualities of OHMSS.

    It does what it does well, in part, but in its effort to be relentlessly hard edged it loses all sense of levity. Fleming largely struck a great balance of danger and verve - something, more recently, I feel CR captured expertly. I'd plump for its predecessor striking a better balance overall and I think Dalton realised this too.

    It's a film with some excellent moments that I certainly wouldn't change, but with its made for TV feel, its disjointed tone and its inability to capture the otherworldly qualities that bless the best of Bond pictures (it forgets the flashes of fantasy and the bizarre in favour of straight realism) I can't see it ever sitting up there with the classics.

    I agree with this aswell. Especially with the first paragraph. OHMSS, FYEO, CR and SF all did the reckless and/or human-Bond approach better and had more convincing performances from key supporting players. Even GF managed it with the scene between Bond and M ("this isn't a personal vendetta 007...") - one of the best scenes in the series.

    Put it this way, he does what he does throughout the film and then it's all resolved with one line "M called...he tried to reach you...I think he may have a job for you".
  • Posts: 6,860
    'All Time High' gets a bad rap. Always likes it, (and Binders titles too!). TLD theme could have been better. Its ok. Obviously the grief between Aha and John Barry didnt help!
    WOTD is growing on me, but definitely not a classic! YNMN still a cracking theme, works for me every time!
  • Posts: 14,855
    LTK is ridden with generic 80s clichés which I think hurts it. My controversial opinion.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Ludovico wrote: »
    LTK is ridden with generic 80s clichés which I think hurts it. My controversial opinion.

    Well it was made in the '80s ?

  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    'All Time High' gets a bad rap. Always likes it, (and Binders titles too!). TLD theme could have been better. Its ok. Obviously the grief between Aha and John Barry didnt help!
    WOTD is growing on me, but definitely not a classic! YNMN still a cracking theme, works for me every time!

    I think All Time High is nice but kind of bland. Not much more than a pleasant but forgettable 80s ballad.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    RC7 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I still prefer LTK. "License to Kill" features a realistic, believable story. Add to it the equal ruthlessness of Bond and Sanchez in their respective portrayals by Dalton and Davi and you have a movie that will stand out over time as one of the best in the series.

    Personally I wouldn't call it one of the best in the series, nor do I believe that it will be seen that way over time. There's nothing particularly unique in it that hasn't been executed better elsewhere in the series, unlike the obvious qualities of OHMSS.

    It does what it does well, in part, but in its effort to be relentlessly hard edged it loses all sense of levity. Fleming largely struck a great balance of danger and verve - something, more recently, I feel CR captured expertly. I'd plump for its predecessor striking a better balance overall and I think Dalton realised this too.

    It's a film with some excellent moments that I certainly wouldn't change, but with its made for TV feel, its disjointed tone and its inability to capture the otherworldly qualities that bless the best of Bond pictures (it forgets the flashes of fantasy and the bizarre in favour of straight realism) I can't see it ever sitting up there with the classics.

    I agree that CR is far superior. But for me LTK is the best Bond film of the 80's and up until CR. Licence To Kill is classic Fleming Bond. Purists may not like the more American touch to the narrative (you just know that any theatrical trailer is crying out for voice over man to go "this time it's personal"), but the more darker narrative suits the film and it shows that Dalton was a good Bond no matter what his critics say. With some of the most spectacular action sequences at the time, this is a genuine Bond classic.

    Dalton's performance is stunning, reflecting Ian Fleming's original Bond figure with a suffering and passionate character instead of a playboy just repeating funny dialogues. The rest of the cast is also superb, with Robert Davi as villain, Talisa Sato and Carey Lovell as Bond girls and a young Benicio Del Toro ("Traffic") as psychopathic killer. Desmond Llewelyn has his best and longest Q performance by supporting Bond on is mission with some of the funniest gadgets.

    The settings are restricted to Miami and Mexico just like in previous Bond movies like GF and DAF (and Fleming's books) and influenced by successful TV series like "Miami Vice" and "Magnum, P.I.". The big disadvantage of this movie is the lack of the typical British settings, humor and "Bond tradition" - in fact, "Licence To Kill" is the most "American" Bond movie ever done. But IMO it represents Fleming's character on screen.

  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    Controversial opinion. I don't think Dalton is THAT great in LTK. Yes he has some excellent moments but nothing I would really call "stunning". Craig easily surpasses him performance-wise in CR.

    I actually think Davi, Zerebe and Del Toro all deliver more engaging performances.

    He's good in the scene outside Felix's house but the next part when he finds Della has me feeling absolutely nothing when I'm meant to be in shock.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Controversial opinion. I don't think Dalton is THAT great in LTK. Yes he has some excellent moments but nothing I would really call "stunning". Craig easily surpasses him performance-wise in CR.

    I actually think Davi, Zerebe and Del Toro all deliver more engaging performances.
    It's an ensemble effort imho, and the Dalton/Davi dynamic is what makes the film. Many of the complaints focus on the Florida section of the film, which is before Dalton & Davi engage. So I don't disagree with your statement.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I thought Dalton was at his best during the Wave Krest 'Who whipped you' scenes and the following escape.
  • Posts: 11,189
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I thought Dalton was at his best during the Wave Krest 'Who whipped you' scenes and the following escape.

    I do like "make a sound...and you're dead".


  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I thought Dalton was at his best during the Wave Krest 'Who whipped you' scenes and the following escape.

    I do like "make a sound...and you're dead".
    "You'd better find yourself a new lover."

    A brilliant delivery, only ruined by the response from the useless actress (??) in the scene with him.
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