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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • GettlerGettler
    Posts: 315
    OHMSS69 wrote: »
    I've always been bothered by the racism in the early films. It seems like its the elephant in the room that so many fans want to ignore.
    DN is explicitly racist.
    As are GF and to a lesser extent YOLT
    Around the time of DAF (1970's) the racism seemed to subside and completely vanish. So many claimed that LALD was racist but I disagree. I found GF and DN much more racist than Moore's first film.

    DN the night club scene with the Jamaican dancers, rolling their eyes and dancing like a bunch of ... trust me I've been to many dances and have seen many people of color dance and I've never saw a black person make those faces while dancing.
    I never got past the scene where Bond orders Quarrel to "fetch my shoes". I've mentioned this on several occasions and no one seems to get the racist overtones of this line.

    GF the way the Koreans are displayed and the comments regarding OddJob are hardly flattering in their racist overtones.

    At the risk of getting flamed: I am not being overly sensitive.

    Oddjob in the novel eats cats too...
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    This discussion is reminding me of the old WB/Disney cartoons which one could consider politcally incorrect in parts today, but that's what makes them so good - they aren't bubble wrapped in PC. That's one of the reasons why modern films won't match the older ones in the "feel" - first there's too many cooks, and second there's too many cultural sensitivities to cater for. And another point is the scripts have to be translatable to any language so there won't be any British or hard to get humour
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,195
    w2bond wrote: »
    This discussion is reminding me of the old WB/Disney cartoons which one could consider politcally incorrect in parts today, but that's what makes them so good - they aren't bubble wrapped in PC. That's one of the reasons why modern films won't match the older ones in the "feel" - first there's too many cooks, and second there's too many cultural sensitivities to cater for. And another point is the scripts have to be translatable to any language so there won't be any British or hard to get humour

    Films have always been translated as have books been translated.

    I think one should also distinguish between "seeing a film as a product of its time" and "judging the attitudes portrayed in the film". Therefore people might say that the films reflect the attitudes of the time approriately but that particular scenes have not aged very well.

    It is a bit like the score. For instance some of the 70s or 80s (Hamlisch or Conti) scores sound dated from today's point of view; however you could also say, that they reflect the time very well and probably better than the more classic and timeless Barry scores of the 70s and 80s.

  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    OHMSS69 wrote: »
    I've always been bothered by the racism in the early films. It seems like its the elephant in the room that so many fans want to ignore.
    DN is explicitly racist.
    As are GF and to a lesser extent YOLT
    Around the time of DAF (1970's) the racism seemed to subside and completely vanish. So many claimed that LALD was racist but I disagree. I found GF and DN much more racist than Moore's first film.

    DN the night club scene with the Jamaican dancers, rolling their eyes and dancing like a bunch of ... trust me I've been to many dances and have seen many people of color dance and I've never saw a black person make those faces while dancing.
    I never got past the scene where Bond orders Quarrel to "fetch my shoes". I've mentioned this on several occasions and no one seems to get the racist overtones of this line.

    GF the way the Koreans are displayed and the comments regarding OddJob are hardly flattering in their racist overtones.

    At the risk of getting flamed: I am not being overly sensitive.

    Golf is not yet the national game of Korea ...
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,865
    bondjames wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    I never understood the appeal of Pat.

    Neither have I actually.
    To quote Tiger Tanaka: "She's very sexiful"

    And a Bond girl like they don't make them: completely foreign to and oblivious of Bond's world. There's this epic drama that is happening right under her nose and she is none the wiser. It really shows how secret Bond's professional life is.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I agree on never considering LALD (the film) to be particularly racist.

    I think, in that case, the black stereotypes are intentionally exaggerated to fit the more comic tone. That doesn't mean it's not silly nowadays though.

    The book on the other hand may be a different matter.

    I've always felt a bit uneasy about Draco's grunting goon that Laz beats up in the hotel room.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I don't have a problem with the racism overtones in any Bond film. I think that's what makes Bond unique in today's world. I've never been all that PC anyway. Carver taking the piss out of Wai Lin in TND was classic.
    5b0nhQ.gif

    Having said that, the bananas in OHMSS is the one part which I found a little off putting, although I realize they were trying to overcome allergies.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,865
    Elliott Carver taking the mickey at martial art. One moment when I was entirely on the villain's side. And I am not a fan of TND.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,865
    Funny because it's true! Martial arts look pathetic especially in movies.

    And wasn't Carver breaking the fourth wall?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,578
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Funny because it's true! Martial arts look pathetic especially in movies.

    And wasn't Carver breaking the fourth wall?

    Depends on the movie. If a competent director/choreographer is involved, then it looks terrific (looking at you, Jackie Chan and Gareth Evans).
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,865
    Sure but Carver was mocking a whole genre and character stereotype. And I must confess while I like Michelle Yeoh I share his views on Way Lin.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    Madeline is the best Bond girl of the Craig era.

    For one thing she doesnt commit suicide after Bond goes to the trouble of saving her from the bad guys.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Madeline is the best Bond girl of the Craig era.

    For one thing she doesnt commit suicide after Bond goes to the trouble of saving her from the bad guys.
    This is definitely the correct thread for this opinion imho.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Madeline is the best Bond girl of the Craig era.

    For one thing she doesnt commit suicide after Bond goes to the trouble of saving her from the bad guys.

    I agree.
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Madeline is the best Bond girl of the Craig era.

    For one thing she doesnt commit suicide after Bond goes to the trouble of saving her from the bad guys.
    giphy.gif

  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    Here's one that's sure to get me hanged: Live and let Die is the worst film.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,422
    Well, in our community Bondathon - we've reached Spy - LALD is at the bottom of my rankings. Only DAD could challenge it.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    I'll actually go so far as to say that Madeleine Swann is my favorite Bond girl.
    QuantumOrganization wrote: »
    Here's one that's sure to get me hanged: Live and let Die is the worst film.

    It's definitely low on my list.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I like LALD but I've never been as fond on it as some. The comic tone tone to it just feels too dated now as does the look of the film.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,810
    For Your Eyes Only has become my least favourite entry. Others have committed greater sins but the whole thing feels so vanilla to me lately.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,168
    What is dated about the look of LALD?
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,810
    LALD is also rather low on my list, somehow I don't really like the look of the film. It amazes me that this is the cinematographer as FRWL.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,294
    I'll throw out a few. I may have said a couple of these before, but anyway:

    -Timothy Dalton is my least favorite Bond. I do not dislike him, or his performances - I simply enjoy him the least of all 6 EON Bond actors. He's very beloved around MI6 Community so I know this won't sit well with many.
    -George Lazenby is my third favorite Bond, behind Connery and Craig.
    -I find Dominic Greene to be an underrated Bond villain.
    -Most of the "dated" things about the older films in the series make the films more enjoyable.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,168
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Them Afros.

    Ok, but I thought they meant cinematography "look".
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I'll throw out a few. I may have said a couple of these before, but anyway:

    -Timothy Dalton is my least favorite Bond. I do not dislike him, or his performances - I simply enjoy him the least of all 6 EON Bond actors. He's very beloved around MI6 Community so I know this won't sit well with many.
    -George Lazenby is my third favorite Bond, behind Connery and Craig.
    -I find Dominic Greene to be an underrated Bond villain.
    -Most of the "dated" things about the older films in the series make the films more enjoyable.

    I wholeheartedly agree!
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    BMW_with_missiles wrote: »
    I'll actually go so far as to say that Madeleine Swann is my favorite Bond girl.
    giphy.gif

  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    LALD will always be somewhere in the middle with me, but I appreciate it more with time. The voodoo aspect makes it unique amongst the canon, Solitaire is one of the better Bond girls, Moore gives a great performance and there is a quirky ensemble of villains. It is lacking however in the pacing department and that boat chase seems to go on forever.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Them Afros.

    That s coming back some day.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Them Afros.

    Ok, but I thought they meant cinematography "look".
    I find it a bit cheap in the cinematography dept. personally, until the croc farm & boat chase. I think that chase is beautifully filmed.

    It doesn't impact my appreciation of the film though. I have it just outside my top 10, and love the quirky & eccentric nature of it all. Martin's fabulous score holds it together nicely.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,810
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Them Afros.

    Ok, but I thought they meant cinematography "look".

    People complain about LTK's visuals, but I never found them as washed out as the cinematography of LALD if I'm honest.
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