The Dark Knight Rises :: July 2012 (Spoilers)

CraigMooreOHMSS

DarthDimi wrote:

I feel compelled to overall praise Zimmer's (and Newton Howard's) scores for the Nolan trilogy. Seldom have I heard such a variety of themes for several pivotal characters (Batman, Ra's, The Joker, Bane, ...) with so few notes on average per theme. The Joker's theme for example is basically one long, stretched-out single note. Bane's theme is heavy male choirs repeating the same word. Yet it works! This is a fairly unique achievement, I think, breaking with superhero traditions (see Williams' Superman theme, Elfman's Batman theme, Ottman's FF theme, Silvestri's Avengers' theme, ...) and in fact breaking with most traditions. It is, however, incredibly effective!

I know some people are annoyed by the scores for the Nolan Batman films, probably feeling much more comfortable with easily hummable, old fashioned, fully orchestrated hero themes. Since The Dark Knight, however, I've come to realise that the very same cold, cerebral, mathematically precise filmmaking Nolan applies to this trilogy is reflected in the music. Why waste instruments or notes on musical extras just to meet general expectations, when you absolutely don't need them? Imagine a full score, then stripped note by note to its bare essentials. What remains is what is absolutely needed, clean and sterile, precise and adequate.

Nolan seems to favour such scores. Before he collaborated with Zimmer, his go-to artist was David Julyan, a man who also prefers gentle impressions over big bombast, and subtle strokes of music over heavily perfumed artistic arrogance.

Is this to become the new sound of filmmusic? I dare say no. When Nolan does what he does best, it appears that we need it. However, a film like Avengers glitters and shines with layer upon layer of grandeur and exposition. It thrives on thick build-ups of audiovisual elements. The package is part of the excitement. The strength of Nolan's Batman films, by contrast, lies more often in what is implied rather than shown. Reducing the level of superficial stimuli in service of the deeper meanings they carry, these films benefit from the less-is-more principle in most departments. I guess not everyone is into that kind of stuff. I myself, however, am. I praise the music for the Nolan Batman trilogy as nothing short of brilliance, despite its modesty.

I agree with a lot of what you have said, but I personally felt Zimmer totally botched The Dark Knight Rises. There's a couple of neat themes there for sure, but the only one that stands out is Bane's chant. The rest? Either uninteresting droning or overstated reprisals of themes that were much better represented on previous scores.

The major factor influencing the music this time was the non-return of Newton Howard. He kept Zimmer in-check on the two previous works, especially on Batman Begins, and the more emotional side of The Dark Knight when the Joker's theme wasn't in play. Zimmer went full on with the last score, but ultimately couldn't serve up anything more than a greatest hits compilation, with a couple of bonus tracks thrown in for some extra juice. It worked well in the film, just not on the album.

Zimmer is the man for bombast. It's what he is good at, but it didn't work as well as before here. His greatest achievement for the franchise will always be the Joker's theme, which is an exercise in simplicity and effectiveness.

JWESTBROOK

CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:

I agree with a lot of what you have said, but I personally felt Zimmer totally botched The Dark Knight Rises. There's a couple of neat themes there for sure, but the only one that stands out is Bane's chant. The rest? Either uninteresting droning or overstated reprisals of themes that were much better represented on previous scores.

Gotham's Reckoning (#3 on the soundtrack) is not a reprisal, and in my opinion it's a fantastic, unique theme for Bane. Not droning, repetative, overstated, but honestly understated.

Risico007

the dark knight rises was brilliant

I felt the chant for bane worked brilliantly what is the piece of music during the stock market attack and chase?

JWESTBROOK

Risico007 wrote:

the dark knight rises was brilliant

I felt the chant for bane worked brilliantly what is the piece of music during the stock market attack and chase?

Again, #3 on the soundtrack: Gotham's Reckoning. Available for listen on YouTube if you so desire.

thelivingroyale

I love the new Nolan scores but I prefer the 1989 Batman theme to the new one. It's just so catchy.

And if you like the Batman themes, here's a great cover.



I know I've posted this video alot, but it's just so awesome!!!

bondbat007

I love the Elfman theme too. And that cover sounds very Batman Beyondish to me. Awesome!

obin_gam

thelivingroyale wrote:

obin_gam wrote:

Is Batman Beyond a comic?

It was first a cartoon set in the future BTAS-universe. In 2011 they actually created a comic of it aswell. It is awesome :)

CraigMooreOHMSS

JWESTBROOK wrote:

CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:

I agree with a lot of what you have said, but I personally felt Zimmer totally botched The Dark Knight Rises. There's a couple of neat themes there for sure, but the only one that stands out is Bane's chant. The rest? Either uninteresting droning or overstated reprisals of themes that were much better represented on previous scores.

Gotham's Reckoning (#3 on the soundtrack) is not a reprisal, and in my opinion it's a fantastic, unique theme for Bane. Not droning, repetative, overstated, but honestly understated.

I know that, if you reread what I said it was the only one that stood out. I agree its very good.

Gerard

obin_gam wrote:

thelivingroyale wrote:

obin_gam wrote:

Is Batman Beyond a comic?

It was first a cartoon set in the future BTAS-universe. In 2011 they actually created a comic of it aswell. It is awesome :)

In fact, there were three comic books based on the cartoon. The first one was published while the series was airing. In 2011, they released a second series, and this year a third one.

And yes, the animated series (and the first animated series, which introduced Harley Quinn) were awesome ! They were Batman done right.

Master_Dahark

This is technically from The Dark Knight but I thought it cool enough to share anyway.
I always assumed they used at least some makeup with CGI enhancements but nope. All CGI. Pretty cool!

Creasy47

Very cool photo, @Master_Dahark, I've never seen that before. I love the scene with Dent in the bed after he looks at the coin, and all you hear is the high pitch of the score as he screams and shakes in bed.

OHMSS69

I really liked the new DARK KNIGHT RISES. I had thought that the second installment, The Dark Knight was good but not quite in the same league as Batman Begins. \I must say that the new one is as good as the first. Great film.

Creasy47

Here are a bunch of behind-the-scenes looks at 'The Dark Knight Rises,' along with the inspiration for Heath Ledger's portrayal of the Joker:
http://www.slashfilm.com/dark-knight-origins-sound-design-banes-voice-concept-images-inspiration-heath-ledgers-joker/#more-132594

forgotmyusername

OFF THREAD SLIGHTLY BUT I KNOW SOME OF YOU CHAPS AND CHAPESSES WOULD LIKE ONE OF THESE:

http://www.watchismo.com/diesel-batman-watch.aspx

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Saw it a second time in IMAX, and though I was too focused on the film to see any differences between its IMAX features and a normal theatre outing, I loved it. I think the way that IMAX impose on the volume as much as they do it makes it hard to hear Bane sometimes. Though I knew what would happen, I still got on the edge of my seat the whole film. A great cast where everyone was on their game and nobody out-shined the others.

boldfinger

I found Zimmer´s score increasingly annoying on repeated viewing. Too droning, and too little content. This great film deserved better music.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

boldfinger wrote:

I found Zimmer´s score increasingly annoying on repeated viewing. Too droning, and too little content. This great film deserved better music.

I slightly agree with you. Zimmer is a great composer, but he reuses too much of his own work in subsequent films. TDKR has some great pieces, but much of it is right from TDK and his other work.

Master_Dahark

One thing that we need from the eventual Batman reboot is hardcore martial arts. Nolan's movies had the right idea (compared to the Burton ones I mean) but even Bale had so much armor on that he couldn't move like I always imagined Batman moving in the comics.
I came across this video and strongly urge you to watch it. This dude moves like I imagine Batman would. Look at how he fights multiple guys and disarms them so quickly that I can barely tell what he's even doing!!

(I'll be honest: start at 1:00 to skip the long credits....)



I love Nolan's movies, but since a reboot will happen, and will be different-- then this is what I want!! Make Batman have moves like the guy in the video, and make his costume reminiscent of this:



and consider me pleasantly pleased!

boldfinger

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

boldfinger wrote:

I found Zimmer´s score increasingly annoying on repeated viewing. Too droning, and too little content. This great film deserved better music.

I slightly agree with you. Zimmer is a great composer, but he reuses too much of his own work in subsequent films. TDKR has some great pieces, but much of it is right from TDK and his other work.

The TDKR cd was great the first time around, but on repeated hearing all the batman-related tracks sound like alternate tracks from TDK.

Master_Dahark wrote:

One thing that we need from the eventual Batman reboot is hardcore martial arts. Nolan's movies had the right idea (compared to the Burton ones I mean) but even Bale had so much armor on that he couldn't move like I always imagined Batman moving in the comics.
I came across this video and strongly urge you to watch it. This dude moves like I imagine Batman would. Look at how he fights multiple guys and disarms them so quickly that I can barely tell what he's even doing!!

The boxing and ellbow style in Nolan´s movies is hardcore martial arts. Watch clips of Kimbo Slice´s backyard fights and you´ll see what I mean:
But I agree that in a re-boot more fancy martial arts styles wouldn´t hurt. Especially things like hitting three people simultaneously is Batman-esque, I´d say.

Master_Dahark wrote:

I love Nolan's movies, but since a reboot will happen, and will be different-- then this is what I want!! Make Batman have moves like the guy in the video, and make his costume reminiscent of this:

I don´t know where to find it, but I saw a picture of Batman with very long bat ears, almost like 1-foot-long spikes. That looked amazingly cool, despite probably being enormously unpractical.

Risico007

I would like some more obscure villains Mad hatter killer Croc etc. because these are great villains they just need a writer director team to utilize them. I do want better fights.

Current rumored title is "The Batman" which is such a lame title.

DarthDimi

Risico007 wrote:

Current rumored title is "The Batman" which is such a lame title.

At this point, the rumours hold 0,0 % significance, I'm afraid. ;-)

Samuel001

That has sprung from an April Fool's joke which said Ryan Reynolds would play the lead role.

As Dimi said, there's zilch on another film at the moment and will be for quite a while, if I had to take a guess.

Creasy47

Here's a bit from an origin sequence they were going to do, which really delved into Bane's background, how he got the scars, the origins of his mask - and a prototype - among a few other things:

"The thing that you should have seen during that sequence is [Bane] being injured in his youth. So one of the fundamental things about his costume is that he has this scar from the back injury. Even if he hasn’t got the bulletproof vest on, he still has to wear the waist belt and the braces. In that scene in the prison, where he’s learning to fight the same way Batman learned to fight, he’s wearing an early version of his waist belt. It’s showing support, but it’s not the finished one he eventually wears. He’s also wearing an early version of his gas mask, all glued together … If you look at the film, unless they’ve cut it—and I’m sure they haven’t—there’s a whole early section for Tom Hardy where he’s fighting and being taunted by people. He’s got chains on him, and he’s standing on a wooden thing while people are attacking him. And in that scene, he’s wearing a much more ragged, primitive version of the mask."

That's from a GQ interview with Lindy Hemming, the costume designer. After that, she was informed that the scene didn't make it into the final film, and she had this to say:

"Well that’s an awful shame, but I suppose you have to cut things. I won’t elaborate on it too much, because it isn’t in the film, but there was another section that showed you why he had the mask and where it came from."

Here's the full link to a bit more information, along with some design images for Bane's back scars:
http://www.slashfilm.com/read-bane-origin-sequence-cut-the-dark-knight-rises/#more-132962

Samuel001

Again, that scene like some others in Bond films should have been kept. Why cut it? That scene sounded first class.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Samuel001 wrote:

That has sprung from an April Fool's joke which said Ryan Reynolds would play the lead role.

As Dimi said, there's zilch on another film at the moment and will be for quite a while, if I had to take a guess.

He had better stay away from the cape and cowl regardless. He doesn't need to play three superheroes at once for crying out loud, and hasn't shown me he is qualified either.

Creasy47

They acted like it would have removed the mystery from Bane. But, why could that not have been added in to the origin story that Miranda tells of her escape via Bane's assistance in the Pit? They could have added it in there.

Honestly, I would enjoy a longer cut on blu-ray and DVD, with the scene between Miranda and Fox (that apparently hints at her being Ra's' daughter), Bane's origin story, etc.

Samuel001

That story of Bane is one of the best parts of the film, at the end, so yes, add it in by all means. I'd love to know why Nolan took this out. The fear of a film running for nearly 3 hours perhaps?

Creasy47

Samuel001 wrote:

That story of Bane is one of the best parts of the film, at the end, so yes, add it in by all means. I'd love to know why Nolan took this out. The fear of a film running for nearly 3 hours perhaps?

That could be. Someone else stated that the film may have been better off as two parts, but who knows how much extra useful footage they would have had to make two films out of this without it looking like an easy cash grab. I really did love Hardy's Bane, but I was so disappointed by his "death," as some people, including my friend, believe the armor weakened the shot and didn't kill him. It was incredibly anticlimactic to me.

Samuel001

I agree, a little too quick as well. It's as if he needed to be out of the way, for the real end to begin.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Creasy47 wrote:

They acted like it would have removed the mystery from Bane. But, why could that not have been added in to the origin story that Miranda tells of her escape via Bane's assistance in the Pit? They could have added it in there.

Honestly, I would enjoy a longer cut on blu-ray and DVD, with the scene between Miranda and Fox (that apparently hints at her being Ra's' daughter), Bane's origin story, etc.

That deleted scene doesn't add much of anything but some meager dialogue. THIS however, grinds the gear of my fanboy clock:
http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2012/08/deleted-scenes-from-the-dark-knight-rises-would-have-explained-banes-backstory

That is something that should have never been cut! And it would have been so wonderful to see more exploration of his character. Seeing a scene like that of such importance cut really gets me down, because that is one of the crucial pieces of the film and it is important to add that backstory because Bane is literally at the bare bones of it Bruce if he had gone the road of the League of Shadows all those years back. It makes me wonder how much great content got cut out of this film. The scope is so big there are certain moments that move on too fast, like Bruce's arrival back to Gotham from the pit that look like plot holes without proper screen-time alloted to explaining how he got back. And I want more meat on the scenes where Bruce has to train his body, as it all goes too fast and it is unconvincing that he has been in there for 5 months. What is missing is scenes of him strengthening his fighting, and learning more techniques to help him that focus of fighting with a fear in your heart of death, the exact thing Ra's told Bruce to employ on others instead of feeling for himself. I hope when the film finally releases they make a director's cut where the deleted scenes are thrown right into the film in the places where they should have been. I would have been more than happy with a 3 to 3 1/2 hour film if it meant we got all this added content that should have been there in the first place. The great thing about TDKR is that you never once feel like it is 2 hours and 44 minutes. That is the mark of a truly great film.