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Quick Big Mi6 Title Track Ranking Game

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  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,609
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    GeneralGogol wrote: »
    Epilogues sounds great. Here are some other ideas:
    - Production design
    - Cinematography
    - Pre-title sequences

    Pre title sequences would be cool, or we could set up an elimination game for those.

    I think these are all good ideas. Both for a next elimination game and for a next ranking game.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,471
    I'd love to rank all the pre-title sequences. That'd be great for the next round.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,267
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I'd love to rank all the pre-title sequences. That'd be great for the next round.

    Me too, can’t remember if this was done before at all
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    Posts: 2,161
    We have, but I don't remember where are when. I'm big on the Denouements (Epilogues). We have never done this and there are so many great and iconic examples.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited January 2022 Posts: 40,471
    I also can't recall. I wish I could find that running list we once had of all the game ideas that never came to fruition. I optioned one for a sort of "best outfit" from each film, I always thought that'd be interesting.

    @Birdleson, that's a great idea too.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,267
    Birdleson wrote: »
    We have, but I don't remember where are when. I'm big on the Denouements (Epilogues). We have never done this and there are so many great and iconic examples.

    First thing that jumped into my head with this is QOS, which I love.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    edited January 2022 Posts: 2,161
    The first three Craig epilogues are all among the best of the series. It is hard to imagine CR and SF getting knocked out of my 1 and 2 spots, respectively.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,544
    I think the ending of QOS is just perfect.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    As powerful and as perfect as the final scene of OHMSS is, the final scenes of Craig’s first three films really are perfection. I would give first place to all three if I could.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited January 2022 Posts: 6,786
    Okay, the epilogues seems to be the most-supported idea, so let’s do that one first.

    After that I was thinking about:
    Pre-title sequences
    Title sequences
    Main henchman/woman
    Overall film pt. 2 , this time including NTTD
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,400
    The Epilogues

    DN: Everything after No's island blows up. Simple!
    FRWL: This one is tricky. Is everything after Bond kills Grant on the train an epilogue? Everything after the helicopter? Everything after the boat chase? I'd say this one is either the final fight with Klebb and the final scene on the canal, or just the scene on the canal.
    GF: Everything after Fort Knox. That whole sequence happens so lightning fast, it seems stupid to consider the epilogue just five seconds of Bond and Pussy snogging under a parachute canopy.
    TB: This one, on the other hand, IS just everything after they get off the Disco Volante. In other words, about half a minute of screentime at best :))
    YOLT: Everything after the volcano erupts.
    OHMSS: Everything after Bond sends the St. Bernard to "go and fetch the brandy." The wedding and Tracy's death.
    DAF: Everything after the oil rig, on the cruise ship.
    LALD: Everything on the train at the end, the fight with Tee-Hee and the Baron Samedi survival reveal.
    TMWTGG: Everything after Scaramanga's island blows up.
    TSWLM: Everything after Bond and Anya get to the escape pod and get away from Atlantis.
    MR: Another short one, everything after Bond destroys the last of Drax's satellites carrying the poison.
    FYEO: Everything after St. Cyril's.
    OP: Everything after Kamal Khan's death.
    AVTAK: Everything after the Golden Gate Bridge.
    TLD: Another tricky one. Do we include Bond vs. Whitaker, or is this JUST Kara's concert and her reunion with Bond?
    LTK: Everything after Bond and Pam leave the desert together.
    GE: Everything after the GoldenEye array falls on Trevelyan.
    TND: Everything after the stealth ship explodes.
    TWINE: Everything after the submarine explodes.
    DAD: Everything after Bond and Jinx get away from the plane. Moneypenny's VR sex dream and the final moment with Bond, Jinx, and the diamonds.
    CR: Everything after Vesper's death, or just the final scene with Mr. White? This movie is quite an epic, I feel like a longer epilogue is worthy of consideration.
    QOS: Everything after Bond abandons Greene in the desert.
    SF: Everything after M's death.
    SP: Everything after Bond refuses to "finish it" on the bridge with Blofeld.
    NTTD: Everything after the fade to white after that thing that happens, happens.

    Any objections?
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    edited January 2022 Posts: 2,161
    I was actually going to type out a very similar piece. The problematic ones: FRWL (I say include Klebb), GF (I’ve always considered the final showdown with Goldfinger himself to be part of the denouement, so I’d include it), and TLD (I say include Whitaker, but I’m not quite so solid on that one).

    With CR I say it’s crucial that we begin at Mr. White’s driveway. That one really is the reason I wanted this game. It is a perfect piece as is. To include the bits leading up to it, while working in the film itself, weaken its impact if we are viewing these as independent slices of cinema. Which was the intent.

    Otherwise I agree with your list.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,267
    This is awesome. Can't wait for this game, will have to participate this time!
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    edited January 2022 Posts: 2,161
    Compiling my preliminary rankings, it occurs to me that YOLT is the first time that the sequence was expanded to include M and Moneypenny, who more or less became recurring elements of that segment. I guess it's extremely evident, I just never really thought of it before. That gives it a little boost in my eye.

    I also noticed that once I get past my Top 11 I don't find them very interesting at all. And the Brosnan Era is uniformly bad in this regard, an era which I often find myself defending.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,400
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Compiling my preliminary rankings, it occurs to me that YOLT is the first time that the sequence was expanded to include M and Moneypenny, who more or less became recurring elements of that segment. I guess it's extremely evident, I just never really thought of it before. That gives it a little boost in my eye.

    YOLT has such a weird ending, too. It's so abrupt. "Moneypenny, fetch 007" "yes sir" and then out of nowhere the movie's just over. I never thought about how it's the first ending to incorporate them either, so that kind of explains why it feels so rough.
    Birdleson wrote: »
    With CR I say it’s crucial that we begin at Mr. White’s driveway. That one really is the reason I wanted this game. It is a perfect piece as is. To include the bits leading up to it, while working in the film itself, weaken its impact if we are viewing these as independent slices of cinema. Which was the intent.

    I think my hangup on where to draw the line with CR is that, there does appear to have been some passage of time (a couple days?) between Vesper's death and "the bitch is dead."
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    Posts: 2,161
    I just can't go with that on that one. We may have to have our own interpretations.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    edited January 2022 Posts: 2,018
    Personally I'm in favour of ranking the PTS next.
    Like already stated, it can be hard to define where epilogues begin, plus they are hardly a defining feature of Bond films (every movie has one), whereas PTS are one of the hallmarks of a Bond movie.
    Maybe final showdowns would be more specific and perhaps more interesting... just an idea.

    DN - Bond vs. Dr. No
    FRWL - Bond vs. Klebb
    GF - Bond vs. Goldfinger
    TB - Bond vs. Largo and goons
    YOLT - Bond vs. Hans or alternatively the whole volcano attack sequence.
    OHMSS - Bond vs. Blofeld
    DAF - Bond vs. Wint & Kidd
    LALD - Bond vs. Tee Hee
    TMWTGG - Bond vs. Nick Nack
    TSWLM - Bond vs. Jaws
    MR - Bond vs. Drax or alternatively the whole space battle sequence.
    FYEO - Bond vs. Kriegler (attack on St. Cyril's)
    OP - Bond vs. Gobinda
    AVTAK - Bond vs. Zorin
    TLD - Bond vs. Whitaker
    LTK - Bond vs. Sanchez
    GE - Bond vs. Trevelyan
    TND - Bond vs. Stamper & Carver
    TWINE - Bond vs. Renard
    DAD - Bond vs. Graves & Jinx vs. Frost
    CR - Bond vs. Gettler and goons
    QOS - Bond vs. Greene & Camille vs. Medrano
    SF - Bond vs. Silva (attack on Skyfall)
    SP - Bond's escape from MI6 building.
    NTTD - Bond vs. Safin
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,690
    R1s1ngs0n wrote: »
    Personally I'm in favour of ranking the PTS next.
    Like already stated, it can be hard to define where epilogues begin, plus they are hardly a defining feature of Bond films (every movie has one), whereas PTS are one of the hallmarks of a Bond movie.
    Maybe final showdowns would be more specific and perhaps more interesting... just an idea.

    DN - Bond vs. Dr. No
    FRWL - Bond vs. Klebb
    GF - Bond vs. Goldfinger
    TB - Bond vs. Largo and goons
    YOLT - Bond vs. Hans or alternatively the whole volcano attack sequence.
    OHMSS - Bond vs. Blofeld
    DAF - Bond vs. Wint & Kidd
    LALD - Bond vs. Tee Hee
    TMWTGG - Bond vs. Nick Nack
    TSWLM - Bond vs. Jaws
    MR - Bond vs. Drax or alternatively the whole space battle sequence.
    FYEO - Bond vs. Kriegler (attack on St. Cyril's)
    OP - Bond vs. Gobinda
    AVTAK - Bond vs. Zorin
    TLD - Bond vs. Whitaker
    LTK - Bond vs. Sanchez
    GE - Bond vs. Trevelyan
    TND - Bond vs. Stamper & Carver
    TWINE - Bond vs. Renard
    DAD - Bond vs. Graves & Jinx vs. Frost
    CR - Bond vs. Gettler and goons
    QOS - Bond vs. Greene & Camille vs. Medrano
    SF - Bond vs. Silva (attack on Skyfall)
    SP - Bond's escape from MI6 building.
    NTTD - Bond vs. Safin

    I agree here. There are no defined epilogues in Bond films, really, and defining or comparing them would be a bit difficult.... Maybe we can all just agree that CR has a great last couple minutes?
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    Posts: 2,161
    It’s not like we can only do one. We’ll get to showdowns.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,195
    Are showdowns less subjective? We have so many films with two showdowns. A major one with a big battle and a smaller one where there is a final fight between Bond and the main villain or henchman.
    One could take the main villain's death / defeat / final escape as the main showdown but that ist of course very subjective, too.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,690
    For the record, I wasn't so much agreeing on the showdown idea as I was on the epilogue one being a bit too amorphous. Pre-title sequences are very easily defined and basically share the identical purpose of getting the viewer excited about the film.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,400
    I don't necessarily agree, as my comment above outlines, I think with most of the films it's pretty clear cut where the epilogues begin. I just think there should be a consensus of sorts reached so that everyone knows exactly what they're ranking. I mean, look at this game: do we think the Bond theme would have still come in at #2 if we hadn't specified that we were ranking JUST the Bond theme from Dr. No? I'm sure a lot of members would have ranked it much lower if they were including the other two pieces of music that come during the credits and the odd way that they get segued into.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,195
    Well it is pretty unclear when exactly the epilogue begins. Does it include any interaction between Bond and a henchman or main villain? I wonder for instance why some people think that the scene between Bond and Whitaker can be part of the epilogue, even though we clearly have the separate concert scene afterwards.

    Furthermore, most epilouges are very similar since they mainly show the typical final romantic scene with Bond and the main Bond girl. CR and OHMSS are of course the two big exceptions. Th thing is that many scenes do not really intend to be more than a funny, romantic ending. It is really hard to compare these to th serious endings like OHMSS or CR. An alternative would be: "main love scene between Bond and the main Bond girl".

  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,690
    GBF wrote: »
    Well it is pretty unclear when exactly the epilogue begins. Does it include any interaction between Bond and a henchman or main villain? I wonder for instance why some people think that the scene between Bond and Whitaker can be part of the epilogue, even though we clearly have the separate concert scene afterwards.

    Furthermore, most epilouges are very similar since they mainly show the typical final romantic scene with Bond and the main Bond girl. CR and OHMSS are of course the two big exceptions. Th thing is that many scenes do not really intend to be more than a funny, romantic ending. It is really hard to compare these to th serious endings like OHMSS or CR. An alternative would be: "main love scene between Bond and the main Bond girl".

    Right. Which do you prefer, Bond pretending to be in traction, Bond tossing a bit of film with an oddly limp wrist, or Bond with a girl on a raft? Not sure it's that interesting a question.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    Personally, I would go with final scenes and not include any fights as those feel more like an extended climax rather than a resolution. I suppose you could envision a Bond film where the very final moment of the film is itself a fight, but that hasn't been the case so far. There always has been some moment, most often between Bond and the girl and occasionally between Bond and M or Mr. White or between Madeleine and Mathilda, that sees us off to the end credits. That's what I would go with: that final scene/moment. Many of them are similar, but surely we still have our preferences among them and consider them of varying quality, and does it make sense to be weighing a prolonged battle with Tee Hee or Brad Whitaker (plus either of those films' romantic resolutions) with sitting in a boat with Honey? It's for @GoldenGun to decide ultimately, but I would opt for just the very final scene.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited January 2022 Posts: 6,786
    Thanks @Some_Kind_Of_Hero.

    A showdown and a pts ranking game will be done too in the near future, since I’d love to do them as well. I’d say to put them in the pipeline for the next two games.

    But first let’s look at the epilogues.

    Anyone any major objections with the following list (and I mean really major, otherwise we can keep on discussing without actually playing the game ;) )?

    DN: after Crab Key blows up.
    FRWL: Venice section.
    GF: post-Fort Knox scenes.
    TB: after the Disco has blown up.
    CR67: all Bonds in heaven/hell.
    YOLT: after the volcano eruption.
    OHMSS: marriage and tragic ending.
    DAF: La Bombe Surprise.
    LALD: train scenes.
    TMWTGG: junk scenes.
    TSWLM: after Atlantis has been destroyed.
    MR: attempting re-entry.
    FYEO: the PM gets the bird and moonlight swim.
    OP: after Kamal’s demise.
    NSNA: Bond in retirement and Small-Fawcett visit.
    AVTAK: post-Golden Gate Bridge scenes.
    TLD: Kara’s concert.
    LTK: party at the Sanchez villa.
    GE: after the satellite dish explosion.
    TND: M’s memo and Bond staying undercover.
    TWINE: premature millennium bug and Christmas in Turkey.
    DAD: Moneypenny goes virtual while Bond and Jinx relax surrounded by diamonds.
    CR: post-Vesper’s death.
    QOS: Kazan scenes.
    SF: Bond at MI6.
    SP: getting the DB5 and driving off with Madeleine.
    NTTD: everything after you-know-what.

    Sounds good?
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,609
    Sounds great.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    Sounds good!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,544
    You compiled an excellent list, @GoldenGun! I'm all for it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Sent. About a third are great, about a third are just there, and about a third are terrible.
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