Weekly Bond Poll: Round 59: secondary Bond girls & helicopter flights

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  • Max_The_ParrotMax_The_Parrot ATAC to St Cyril’s
    edited June 2020 Posts: 2,426
    I’m not a fan of the Tennyson moment at all, whilst I’m sure M May enjoy a little poetry by the fireside at home on a cold winter’s night, I really can’t imagine she’d start churning it out in the middle of a Parliamentary enquiry, and I don’t think anyone else in the room was expecting it either. I’m just glad none of our actual civil servants have followed the lead and started spouting Shakespeare during the Covid briefings. I do like a bit of classical music though so Vivaldi it is.

    As for Caroline Bliss I find her instantly forgettable and I have no wish to listen to her Barry Manilow collection, whereas there’s something likeable about Cleese in a ‘he’s not Desmond but he’ll do’ kind of way.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    The Vivaldi in Spectre is great, and works so well for the scene.
  • Posts: 698
    Tennyson- I find that whole sequence completely euphoric. Vivaldi is still great though!

    Unfortunately Caroline Bliss didn't really have that much of an opportunity to shine as Moneypenny. Given Cleese is one of the highlights of DAD, I'll have to go with Cleese. I feel bad he only got one film as he had the makings of a great Q.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    Tennyson- I find that whole sequence completely euphoric. Vivaldi is still great though!

    Unfortunately Caroline Bliss didn't really have that much of an opportunity to shine as Moneypenny. Given Cleese is one of the highlights of DAD, I'll have to go with Cleese. I feel bad he only got one film as he had the makings of a great Q.

    I can see you're a person of great taste. :P
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,627

    As for Caroline Bliss I find her instantly forgettable and I have no wish to listen to her Barry Manilow collection

    I do
    :-c
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,398
    Dwayne wrote: »

    As for Caroline Bliss I find her instantly forgettable and I have no wish to listen to her Barry Manilow collection

    I do
    :-c

    I don't know the singer but I would definitely listen to her collection when she would have invited me.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,398
    I like both moments (a lot!) and Cleese and Bliss deserved more screen time. Both worked well for me.
    Honestly, I don't understand the meaning of M's poetry lesson and as some mentioned, her speech wouldn't be the most realistic reaction. Anyway, the scene works very good to increase the drama. The build up to the shootout is much better than the action that follows.
    The Vivaldi moment is a great combination of music and picture. Definitely a standout scene from the Craig era. It is fascinating how classical music works so well in many movies, regardless of the genre.

    I like Bliss in TLD. (I would have liked her in LTK but her appearance sadly is the shortest Moneypenny scene of the series.) I don't like the part where Bond places her glasses back on her nose. But the rest of the Bond-Moneypenny interaction is good stuff. Bliss seems to be a very likeable person
    Cleese gets my vote because I like his humour in DAD (I don't like him in TWINE). He is my least favourite Eon Q (ignoring Boothroyd from DN) but I would have loved to see him once more for a fifth movie.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,609
    I like several types of Classical Music, but not Vocal or Baroque (with few exceptions like Vivaldi's great "Spring" in AVTAK). So it's clearly Tennyson for me, although most impact in this scene comes from the great score.

    Cliss over Bleese, please .. er .. Bliss over Cleese
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,398
    Results of round 41:

    Tennyson (poem in SF) wins against Vivaldi (Lucia at home in SP): 9 : 7
    Caroline Bliss in TLD vs. John Cleese in DAD has no winner: 8 : 8

    Round 42:

    Which love story is more believable? Bond & Tracy vs. Bond & Vesper
    Think about the acting but also about dialogues and moments they spend together etc.

    Which "unusual bondgirl treatment" do you prefer/was the better screenplay decision? twice the same(Sylvia Trench was back as first love interest in FRWL) vs. no sex (Bond doesn't have sex with Camille, the main bondgirl (!), in QOS)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    A hard choice as OHMSS and CR are my #1 and #2. But I simply can't vote against Dame Diana Rigg so my answer is Bond & Tracy. For thee the poet of beguilement sings, indeed.

    I hated that Bond never had sex with Camille--it made no sense as this is not a Gala Brand situation and Bond does sleep with Fields in the same film--so I'll vote for Trench returns.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    Bond and Tracy, Camille
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Bond and Tracy, Camille

    Same.
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,882
    The love story between Bond and Tracy, and Bond and Vesper is a tough one for me. Both relationships grow over the course of their respective movies.
    However the love story between Bond and Tracy is the more believable and romantic. Tracy turning up in Switzerland, saving Bond from Spectre, and the proposal of marriage in the barn seals the deal for me. Never has a Bond film given Bond and his leading lady such a romantic scene. Well played by both Lazenby and Rigg. And then of course the heart breaking ending too OHMSS.

    As too the second match, Sylvia wins for me. Quite easily. I like the character of Camille. However she's not really a Bond girl, more of an ally who's female. I get why, and the character works for QOS.
    Sylvia is an interesting character, who I would've liked to see continue in the series as planned (
    without ending up marrying Bond though
    ). She's sexy, somewhat mysterious, confident and alluring. A minor character with a lot of intrigue.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,507
    This first one has my one and two doing battle... But OHMSS is number one for a reason-- and that is how they developed and weaved the romance into the story from the opening scene to the closing. To me, it's perfect, and no matter how many times I've seen the film, the ending is always heart-breaking and tragic (CR comes in a very, very close second for the same reasons, although Bond and Vesper's blossoming romance doesn't really kick in until the final act).

    Camille wins the second match-up. Bond taking the time to seduce Fields makes sense, but I just don't see the point in having him shag Camille just for the sake of it. These two were, to use Greene's words, damaged goods; they were too focused on their missions to stop and have a good time with each other.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    edited July 2020 Posts: 1,081
    Voting between Bond and Tracy and Bond and Vesper is certainly a hard task. I'd argue that along with Dalton and D'Abo in The Living Daylights they are unequivocally the best relationships in the series, IMO. While the relationships in question share certain similarities, I can't vote against Bond and Tracy as On Her Majesty's Secret Service has the ultimate Bond love story. The relationship between Lazenby and Rigg is more believable and their interactions throughout the film such as Bond's first interaction with Tracy at the Casino, Tracy saving Bond from Blofeld's henchmen in St. Moritz and Bond's proposal in the barn are sublime.

    Sylvia Trench gets my second vote.
  • Max_The_ParrotMax_The_Parrot ATAC to St Cyril’s
    edited July 2020 Posts: 2,426
    I’m not a fan of the lurrrrvvvveeeee stories -when it comes to displays of affection give me Jaws and Dolly, or JW and a little elephant any day. There’s not much for me to choose between them, so I’m going to ignore any attempt at deep critical discussion of plot, dialogue and pretending I know what Flemingesque means and just pick Bond and Tracy because I like Diana Rigg and she was great in The Avengers. Yep, that’s what you get when you ask a parrot for an opinion.

    It never really registered whether Camille had sex with Bond or not, I do tend to fall asleep near the end of QOS though, I really should drink coffee when watching. Sylvia I quite like in a novelty ‘oh look, she was in the other film as well, I wonder what’s in the hamper, wow he’s got a car phone’ way, so I’m going to go with her.

    Tune in next week for more in-depth Bond commentary and analysis from the parrot cage 👍🤞
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Bond and Tracy aka Mr. and Mrs. James Bond since Tracy wasn't a double agent.

    and

    Sylvia Trench. If Camille was meant to only be a platonic female ally then to emphasize that aspect they shouldn't have had Bond kiss her at the end IMHO. Sylvia's a much more delightful character anyway and her return in FRWL is a welcome one.
    Octopussy wrote: »
    I'd argue that along with Dalton and D'Abo in The Living Daylights they are unequivocally the best relationships in the series, IMO.

    I'd posit that Dalton Bond/d'Abo Kara tops both Mr. & Mrs. Lazenby Bond and Craig Bond/Vesper.

  • Posts: 631
    Bond and Tracy, easy. When she skates back into his life at the ice rink you know this is the real thing.

    Second one is harder because I really like the Camille character and I love Olga Kurylenko as an actor. In a contest against almost anyone else I would have voted for Camille. But you put her in a contest against Sylvia, you villain!

    So I vote for Sylvia. I hope she dumped the useless and unreliable James Bond while he was swanning off in Istanbul, and that she found herself someone better.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,790
    Bond and Tracy by far. Better on every account.
    Second one would be Camille for me.
  • Posts: 565
    Bond & Vesper. Both the leading ladies are strong. The difference for me is in the Bonds.

    Camille. By far.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,398
    Brought over from the last page. Be aware that it isn't only about the question if you prefer Sylvia or Camille but about the fact that they decided bringing back a bondgirl vs. the decision that Bond doesn't get his usual sex with the main girl.

    Round 42:

    Which love story is more believable? Bond & Tracy vs. Bond & Vesper
    Think about the acting but also about dialogues and moments they spend together etc.

    Which "unusual bondgirl treatment" do you prefer/was the better screenplay decision? twice the same(Sylvia Trench was back as first love interest in FRWL) vs. no sex (Bond doesn't have sex with Camille, the main bondgirl (!), in QOS)
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,398
    I had a strange OHMSS watch a few days ago. I watched it with a friend and I thought he would like the movie (I love it!). Well, he didn't like it at all (except for the car chase and the stiffness moment). His main critisism was Lazenby in general and the love story (he didn't bought it at all and the moment on the ice rink - which was praised in an earlier poll round - was commented with "what? he just sits there and gives up? Connery would have found a way out himself". I watched OHMSS with twi colleagues before and they liked it...I hope the other fellow is an exception.
    However, I have to admit that Lazenby doesn't sell it as good as Craig does. Green and Rigg are awesome and great actresses. I like both love stories but surprisingly the dramatic ending in OHMSS never touches me while I feel sad for Vesper. I'm not sure why I feel this way but this is why I vote for Bond & Vesper.

    I like Camille and it might be that the "no shagging today-ending" suits the characters but it is another reason why QoS doesn't have a bondian feeling often enough. (I still like the film but a few more moments using the bond formula would work better for me).
    I'm happy that we usually don't have recurring bondgirls and it's fine that she wasn't back in GF but every second of Sylvia Trench in DN and FRWL is a delight for my eyes and I like the dialogues between her and Bond. Hence, an eays win for twice the same, Sylvia.
    I’m not a fan of the lurrrrvvvveeeee stories -when it comes to displays of affection give me Jaws and Dolly, or JW and a little elephant any day.
    ...
    It never really registered whether Camille had sex with Bond or not, I do tend to fall asleep near the end of QOS though, I really should drink coffee when watching. Sylvia I quite like in a novelty ‘oh look, she was in the other film as well, I wonder what’s in the hamper, wow he’s got a car phone’ way, so I’m going to go with her.

    Tune in next week for more in-depth Bond commentary and analysis from the parrot cage 👍🤞

    I apologize, @Max_The_Parrot, that this round wasn't your taste, I'll try to come up with something Roger focused next week.

  • Max_The_ParrotMax_The_Parrot ATAC to St Cyril’s
    edited July 2020 Posts: 2,426
    Brought over from the last page. Be aware that it isn't only about the question if you prefer Sylvia or Camille but about the fact that they decided bringing back a bondgirl vs. the decision that Bond doesn't get his usual sex with the main girl.

    Ahhhh not for the first time the parrot has not paid enough attention, but for the wrong reasons my vote was still the right one, I don’t mind the twice the same idea, in fact in the Bond universe it’s quite a welcome novelty, and am looking forward to see how Madeleine fairs in NTTD. I would have loved to see the nearly Anya Amasova return as well, and I enjoy the ‘twice/thrice the same actor’-iness of Maud as well.

    PS Am i the only Bond fan who simply cannot say Maud without doing a ‘Roger impersonates a Randy Herve‘ voice?

    PPS Don’t worry I enjoy every one of your challenges, I look forward to it every week, although I admit I’m always in the mood for more Moore! ☺️
  • Posts: 698
    Bond and Tracy. I love both, however Bond & Vesper's relationship comes about after Bond is tortured, and despite Vesper starting to open up it is still a bit jarring. Bond & Tracy has the luxury of seeing their relationship progress through a montage. All four actors sell it, however it's the acting in the last act of Majesty's that brings it home.

    No sex. It finally got rid of that tradition of all the Bond girls have to sleep with Bond. I don't have a problem if they do or don't, however I found that sometimes Bond sleeps with his women because that's the formula rather than having any real chemistry (FYEO and TND come to mind). I'm not a fan of the kiss with Camille however. Also, with Madeline Swann coming back I think it takes the shine off of Sylvia Trench's return. I think it is really sweet she did return, however I would prefer if main girls come back.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Octopussy wrote: »
    I'd argue that along with Dalton and D'Abo in The Living Daylights they are unequivocally the best relationships in the series, IMO.

    I'd posit that Dalton Bond/d'Abo Kara tops both Mr. & Mrs. Lazenby Bond and Craig Bond/Vesper.

    That could be a controversial opinion.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,609
    Octopussy wrote: »
    I'd argue that along with Dalton and D'Abo in The Living Daylights they are unequivocally the best relationships in the series, IMO.

    I'd posit that Dalton Bond/d'Abo Kara tops both Mr. & Mrs. Lazenby Bond and Craig Bond/Vesper.
    +1
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    I'd argue that along with Dalton and D'Abo in The Living Daylights they are unequivocally the best relationships in the series, IMO.

    I'd posit that Dalton Bond/d'Abo Kara tops both Mr. & Mrs. Lazenby Bond and Craig Bond/Vesper.

    That could be a controversial opinion.

    I wouldn't go that far...but I would say that the pure acting chemistry is perhaps strongest between Dalton and d'Abo, or Craig and Green. It's just that OHMSS is so strong on the page, and of course, Dame Rigg could read the proverbial phone book and be mesmerizing.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,398
    Very well said @echo.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,627
    I'll second @echo.

    While Bond/Tracy and Bond/Vesper are the two clear choices here, an argument can be made for Bond and Kara from “The Living Daylights.” I really like how her naivety balances off with Dalton’s more world-weary approach to the character. And, of course, I have this thing for Maryam d'Abo….. 😊.

    But for the given choices, I’m going to go with Bond and Tracy. For all of the criticism that Lazenby’s acting takes (deservedly so, in some cases), I think he plays this scene with an appropriate balance of decisiveness and vulnerability (watch his eyes). And it happens to be one of my favorites.



    As for the second topic, I’ll go old school and vote for Sylvia.

    A good question for you folks:

    You can program four Bond movies for a valentines day marathon. Other than OHMSS and CR, what two other titles would you pick?
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Dwayne wrote: »
    A good question for you folks:

    You can program four Bond movies for a valentines day marathon. Other than OHMSS and CR, what two other titles would you pick?

    TLD(for Dalton Bond/Kara) and OP(for Moore Bond/Octopussy).

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