Die Another Day vs Spectre.

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  • edited February 2019 Posts: 677
    Revelator wrote: »
    A car chase that enables you to have a long phone conversation is not a proper car chase. If an action scene doesn't have urgency it doesn't work, and if it's spent puzzling over out plot points instead of advancing them, then it's a dud. So is any car chase that breaks midway through to show a character opening the fridge in their cosy apartment. A great way to lose momentum, urgency, and any sense of threat.
    Totally agree.

    Where's the danger, where's the excitement, where's the thrill?

    The opening chase of SF is the proper way to combine the playful tone and the risk of the situation.

    I don't know how the same team could get it so wrong a second time.

    The Hinx fight is probably the only time I felt the real threat, but it was such a derivative scene.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,916
    So hyperbole. Cutting down positive thoughts on Spectre content.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,879
    It's your Spectre against mine, huh?
  • Posts: 4,023
    It was set up so that we get the exposition in a new and exciting way, but it sure detracts from the action. The threat of Hinx at the meeting is lost. Plus it’s jarring when “Backfire” is pounding away whilst Moneypenny looks in the fridge. A shame as the car chase looks beautiful.

  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,382
    I always loved when Bond throws a pan of green beans at Hinx.

    Man calm down and eat your veggies.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I always loved when Bond throws a pan of green beans at Hinx.

    Man calm down and eat your veggies.

    It is a good moment.
    Bond is beaten and he knows it,so its pure desperation as he retreats.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,382
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I always loved when Bond throws a pan of green beans at Hinx.

    Man calm down and eat your veggies.

    It is a good moment.
    Bond is beaten and he knows it,so its pure desperation as he retreats.

    Lets see I've tried firing my gun. Throwing a candle, jump up on a bar and kick.

    Veggies!!! That ought to do the trick.
  • Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I always loved when Bond throws a pan of green beans at Hinx.

    Man calm down and eat your veggies.

    It is a good moment.
    Bond is beaten and he knows it,so its pure desperation as he retreats.

    Lets see I've tried firing my gun. Throwing a candle, jump up on a bar and kick.

    Veggies!!! That ought to do the trick.

    The only veggie was Bond himself,the state he was in !!
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 1,318
    What I do appreciate about Spectre, to add some positivity and since it's the only one of its kind, is the clinical approach and look. It's different and I reckon in the coming years its stock may rise, a little or - perhaps - a lot.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Good lord this is a tough one.

    Both bottom dwellers. I would say the first half of DAD is better than anything in SP, but the second half is worse. Tough call. Both had equally crap Bond girls. In terms of Villainy, I would give the nod to Moon/Graves despite his character arc being completely preposterous. Purely because Toby Stephens chews scenery with abandon. And despite being Bonds arch nemesis, Waltz is just, well, there.

    Action wise, I would probably give it to SP. The set pieces, are pretty bland, but at least they don't approach the nonsense of the tidal wave surfing stuff.

    Both have torture scenes, of course, but incredibly, DAD actually handles it more realistically than SP.

    It's a tough call, they are both near the bottom of most people's lists, and for good reason.
  • edited February 2019 Posts: 19,339
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Good lord this is a tough one.

    Both bottom dwellers. I would say the first half of DAD is better than anything in SP, but the second half is worse. Tough call. Both had equally crap Bond girls. In terms of Villainy, I would give the nod to Moon/Graves despite his character arc being completely preposterous. Purely because Toby Stephens chews scenery with abandon. And despite being Bonds arch nemesis, Waltz is just, well, there.

    Action wise, I would probably give it to SP. The set pieces, are pretty bland, but at least they don't approach the nonsense of the tidal wave surfing stuff.

    Both have torture scenes, of course, but incredibly, DAD actually handles it more realistically than SP.

    It's a tough call, they are both near the bottom of most people's lists, and for good reason.

    Come on @Roadphill get off the fence,which one is better ? ;)
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    @barryt007 Go on then! I would say SP is better. I would still more likely re-watch DAD, though.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    One thing I do like about Skyfall/Spectre is the Q scenes. Good banter without trying to imitate what's gone before.
  • Posts: 7,653
    I can understand that SP should be defended that it is better than DAD, that must be fricking frustrating if you have to believe that, because basically any 007 movie would be better.
    As for the comparison of the car chase in SP and the chase in DAD, the one in DAD wins it hands down because it is bloody fun, while the SP chase costed 20 million and is the worst and most boring car-chase ever put down on film. It is an insult and shows you the level of skill lacking in most action scenes in SP. It certainly would have Broccoli cartwheeling in his grave as he always put his budget on the screen which you can hardly accuse SP of doing.
    While DAd is just stupid fun the most SP can offer is stupid script, stupid action-scenes (The opening while Roger Moore worthy does look so fake with the lenses used I always thought it was pure CGI), a poor Blofeld and a 007 who once again is a terminator who can survive impossible torture and simply cannot die (not sure why Mendes chose for this in both movies). Somebody should have halted the filming of SP, remove the director and hire a new writing staff and director Martin Campbell.
  • edited February 2019 Posts: 19,339
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I can understand that SP should be defended that it is better than DAD, that must be fricking frustrating if you have to believe that, because basically any 007 movie would be better.
    As for the comparison of the car chase in SP and the chase in DAD, the one in DAD wins it hands down because it is bloody fun, while the SP chase costed 20 million and is the worst and most boring car-chase ever put down on film. It is an insult and shows you the level of skill lacking in most action scenes in SP. It certainly would have Broccoli cartwheeling in his grave as he always put his budget on the screen which you can hardly accuse SP of doing.
    While DAd is just stupid fun the most SP can offer is stupid script, stupid action-scenes (The opening while Roger Moore worthy does look so fake with the lenses used I always thought it was pure CGI), a poor Blofeld and a 007 who once again is a terminator who can survive impossible torture and simply cannot die (not sure why Mendes chose for this in both movies). Somebody should have halted the filming of SP, remove the director and hire a new writing staff and director Martin Campbell.

    Brilliant post @SaintMark , I agree with all of that,especially the car chases ,I love the ice lake chase and Arnold’s score is excellent!

    DAD knows what it is,a MR or a YOLT,wheras SP is riding on SF success,right down to the score.
    DAD is FUN !!!!

    SP insults the audience , an arrogant ,lazy and presumptuous film.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,657
    I'm having trouble defending SP, including its car chase which is a a bit of a waste, in most ways, but the idea that anyone would even care to bring a rear-wheel drive Aston Martin and Jaguar XJS or what ever it was (or, for that matter, that ridiculous retro-design Thunderbird for Jinx) TO ICELAND, where for ages every reasonable person has been driving an off-roader and nothing else (maybe except for tourists in summer), is so completely ludicrous that I refuse to even consider the car chase in DAD to be better than most others. It's no more than comic-book quality without any pretense of realism, and as such fits DAD overall. That may be legitimate, but I think it sucks.

    That being said, the car chases in CR and especially QOS are no better at all either. CR's is designed to show they could produce a sevenfold somersault of the poor AM after about two minutes of driving somehow, and QOS is a complete waste, just like that Bourne something-ity in the Moscow (actually Berlin) tunnel, due to that moronic editing. I want my Bullitt-type car chases back, instead of this nonsense. Provided there is a plot twist that somehow justifies a car chase, which I don't really see in the latest movies.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The cars on Iceland are like any other place, and tourists don t bring their cars there. They take the bus or hire an off-roader. Winters are never harsh there, either. Glaciers are not representative of the normal traffic situation anywhere.
  • edited February 2019 Posts: 377
    Die Another Day starts out good, with an action-packed opener. Then it takes a massive hit with Madonna’s moronic song. Things improve as we return to the story. For a while, it’s Brosnan’s best Bond film until we get to Iceland. The wind surfing scene was one of the most embarrassing moments of the series. The constant bad puns become tiring. However, funnily enough, the disappearing car isn’t really a problem. Then the film returns to North Korea. Vald is such a cartoonish, stereotypical “mad scientist” that he becomes unbearable. The special effects are rather bad, and Graves’ idiotic “Oh look, parachutes for the both of us!” is just cringeworthy. And Halle Berry has also worn out her welcome by the time the film ends. It’s not a great film.

    Now, on to Spectre. The opening of the film is fantastic, and fantastic to look at. The title song is is excellent. Then, back to the story. I think it’s now the third time Craig’s Bond has said “Of course he is!” In Skyfall he used the same phrase twice while talking about Q. By now it’s getting tiresome. And what’s surprising is the unwelcome return to goofy humor. The stupid “I am Mickey Mouse!” line. The stupid airbag moment. The stupid rat scene. Anyway, the plot is quite good, and I really like the Denbigh character. Christoph Waltz is the easily the best Blofeld since Donald Pleasence, it’s a shame they had to invent this distracting, lame backstory in which Blofeld became Blofeld because he was jealous of Bond when the two were growing up. Another annoying moment is when Bond has to choose between continuing to be an assassin or giving it up to be with Dr. Swann. They place Mallory on one side of the bridge and Swann on the other. Couldn’t they have found a more subtle way to convey Bond’s dilemma?

    In the end, however, Spectre is obviously a much better film than Die Another Day.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,382
    Both are odd ducks. I enjoy Spectre more than DAD but DAD is more fun. Just depends on my mood but I havent watched either in quite awhile. I think ive only watched Spectre once in its entirety since theaters. I have my usual 5-10 go to Bond films and these two arent amongst them
  • Posts: 235
    I enjoyed Spectre more.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,879
    As someone who collects the toys, which film had the better gadgets and weaponry? I'll say DAD. Tank buster rifle, breather, watches etc. More exciting armaments on the Aston too.
  • Posts: 2,887
    Both are odd ducks. I enjoy Spectre more than DAD but DAD is more fun.

    Wouldn't that make DAD the more enjoyable film then?

  • edited February 2019 Posts: 1,778
    Spectre any day of the week.
    I think that over time Spectre will grow somewhat in appreciation. Much like LTK and to a lesser extent QOS. Whereas DAD has aged like the half empty carton of milk that you completely forgot was in the back of your fridge.

    I havent been on this site regularly in some time. Can somebody tell me what the initial reactions to Spectre were like on this site? Thanks so much.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,532
    Spectre any day of the week.
    I think that over time Spectre will grow somewhat in appreciation. Much like LTK and to a lesser extent QOS. Whereas DAD has aged like the half empty carton of milk that you completely forgot was in the back of your fridge.

    I havent been on this site regularly in some time. Can somebody tell me what the initial reactions to Spectre were like on this site? Thanks so much.

    From what I remember, SP was pretty well received for the most part. It even won a poll between it and SF.
  • edited February 2019 Posts: 4,023
    The MI6 rankings were broken down on here and for SP it showed a real spread (as even as you could imagine) across each ranking. There was a slight leaning towards it being rated in the lower half (maybe 60:40 in favour of lower half), but every rating from 1 to 24 made a decent showing.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited February 2019 Posts: 13,879
    I remember some here said it was the best Bond film yet - typical overhype with a new product. The PTS got massive praise, and is still regarded as a highlight now, but frankly, from the get-go, I could see it was an average Bond film, and my opinion hasn't changed much, if at all. I can handle the Brofeld angle considering it's highly likely to stay confined to Craig's era, but the action and dialogue are sub-par. There's no excuse for that heavy saturation of yellow that destroyed what should've been vibrant coloured cinematography.

    All said, I still 'love' SP though, like with any other entry. On the plus side, there are some awesome moments, from Bond's rooftop walk and unfolding the Glock carbine (perhaps making up for TND's PTS where they planned to have Bond unfold his Armalite rifle), to most of the scenes in Rome; Bond's banter with Q are highlights, as they were in SF. I love Bond's smirk and exit when he says, "I'll send you a postcard". As I've mentioned in other threads, the lair has some Ken Adam influence here and there. I think I'm in the minority who enjoys the third act in London, and shooting down Ernst's chopper with the PPK's last bullet.
  • Posts: 6,728
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    Spectre any day of the week.
    I think that over time Spectre will grow somewhat in appreciation. Much like LTK and to a lesser extent QOS. Whereas DAD has aged like the half empty carton of milk that you completely forgot was in the back of your fridge.

    I havent been on this site regularly in some time. Can somebody tell me what the initial reactions to Spectre were like on this site? Thanks so much.

    From what I remember, SP was pretty well received for the most part. It even won a poll between it and SF.

    Only myself and one other disliked it immediately, and I caught all kinds of crap for it. I couldn't understand what the Hell they all were seeing that I wasn't; like an alternate dimension. Within a year it became about half and half. Now I'd say the majority, if not out and out disliking it, rank it in the lower brackets.

    Probably a fair assessment, but i still think most havd DAD at the very bottom. There have been a few attempts by posters to try and defend DAD but it remains the worst for most it seems, myself very much included.
  • Posts: 19,339
    QBranch wrote: »
    I remember some here said it was the best Bond film yet - typical overhype with a new product. The PTS got massive praise, and is still regarded as a highlight now, but frankly, from the get-go, I could see it was an average Bond film, and my opinion hasn't changed much, if at all. I can handle the Brofeld angle considering it's highly likely to stay confined to Craig's era, but the action and dialogue are sub-par. There's no excuse for that heavy saturation of yellow that destroyed what should've been vibrant coloured cinematography.

    All said, I still 'love' SP though, like with any other entry. On the plus side, there are some awesome moments, from Bond's rooftop walk and unfolding the Glock carbine (perhaps making up for TND's PTS where they planned to have Bond unfold his Armalite rifle), to most of the scenes in Rome; Bond's banter with Q are highlights, as they were in SF. I love Bond's smirk and exit when he says, "I'll send you a postcard". As I've mentioned in other threads, the lair has some Ken Adam influence here and there. I think I'm in the minority who enjoys the third act in London, and shooting down Ernst's chopper with the PPK's last bullet.

    Definitely old chap !! meh....

    Birdleson wrote: »
    I enjoy it (DAD) quite a bit. Still in my bottom five, but there is much that I love and anticipate.

    Same here ...great fun !
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,382
    Revelator wrote: »
    Both are odd ducks. I enjoy Spectre more than DAD but DAD is more fun.

    Wouldn't that make DAD the more enjoyable film then?

    It's a conundrum for me. For example CR is my #2 and MR is my #4. I enjoy CR much more than MR but MR is big dumb fun.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited February 2019 Posts: 13,879
    barryt007 wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    shooting down Ernst's chopper with the PPK's last bullet.
    meh....
    This scene in SP where Bond shoots down Ernst's helicopter gets ridicule here and on other forums for being unbelievable, yet he shoots down helicopters in FRWL/AVTAK/GE, and those scenes never get flak. A real head scratcher there. :-/ I thought the SP one was just as awesome, and if anyone could pull that off, it's Bond!
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