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@Gustav_Graves, with all due respect, I think this is another situation of you getting too worked up over something you needn't be. It isn't lost on most of us the work or thought you put into this, but you presented it to either be agreed or disagreed with and we all spoke our minds. There's little more to be said. You made a big deal about how this is a democracy and, true to a democracy, we took our vote. I don't think anyone other than yourself who has posted in this thread has agreed with your petition or thought even of signing it, which is about a 20:1 ratio in favor of the "Nay" camp. That's your result.
You make it out that all of us made fun of you and ridiculed your spent time, but I think at least 90% of those who posted their thoughts were actually quite accommodating in their opinions, respected yours, and presented their viewpoint honestly and openly. You seem to think that anyone who disagrees with you is one of the cynical or negative ones, but I and many others were simply saying things how they are. If we don't seek logic and rationality in our lives there's little point, and to be frank your idea has no utility in the "real world" film industry. Many people beyond me have expressed why that is, and why such an approach wouldn't be able to be executed or why it wouldn't work. That's our opinion, as a collective forum, so take it or leave it.
The mood of the forum sometimes annoys me too, but I think you've over-exaggerated the state of the franchise here, something else everyone who has posted here seems to agree with me on as well. I don't know anyone here who has said the Bond franchise is going to a quick grave after Bond 25, or that there is a do or die moment for EON where the entire lifeblood of the franchise is riding on the next movie. There are definite concerns with who will distribute the films and issues like that, but those are pretty standard hoops in the industry to jump through (negotiations and contracts make up so much of it) so a very regular aspect of making films has been blown out of proportion as a big cause for worry when it needn't be seen as such. Nothing, and I mean nothing, will threaten the Bond franchise's continued existence. When the films are starting to make more than or near a billion each time out, and have been doing amazing financially since they first came out in the 60s regardless, there's no way that cash cow would be put out to pasture. Studios would kill to have a franchise as dependable and profitable from a box office and merchandising standpoint as Bond, so 007 ain't going nowhere.
You say you want to use the petition to empower EON to make their best Bond film, but they already do that each time they make one, so again I don't see the point in getting so concerned. Michael, Barbara and co. don't sit around starved for positivity and think, "If only we had a fire lit under us to motivate us to make a good film!" They're using big studio money to make blockbuster films, they understand the risks involved and they always try to do their damnedest, no matter what the fans think, to turn out a solid film in their mind.
Just understand that for every opinion you have there will be an opposing one, and that most of the time those debating you aren't trying to bring you down. We all have different thoughts on Bond and where the series would go, but in this case I think most agree that the series isn't in any danger and at the very worst simply needs refreshed from a creative standpoint, which I don't think many would disagree with. But it's not going anywhere and I don't think fans should be petitioning for a say when EON are doing fine on their own. I would rather see petitions for things like soliciting governments to give aid to starving populations, or to stop wars, etc, things that, to be frank, actually matter beyond the make believe world of the film industry and can change our lives in a real and profound way. No matter if they come from a good place or not, petitions that are very trivial and that aren't committed to fighting a real cause that endangers many in our real world seem very silly in comparison to all the petitions we could be making in their place. That's not meant as a slant, that's just me being honest.
People are just........harsh in here. Obviously I am worked up, because I spent some hours on writing that letter. I hold that letter very dearly to me. It perfectly verbalizes my worries about the direction of the Bond franchise. I had this in my mind for such a while. I couldn't sleep over it. Then I feel relieved and happy that I actually did it: Creating this petition, based on my letter. So obviously I am worked up here. I know for once that @Murdock felt very bad when I criticised his fan art and those of other fan artists in this forum. I apoligized for that, because I felt sincerely bad to what I had caused. I was belittling other people's work. Now I know exactly how they feel.
And from forum members in here, I would have expected more than just harsh realism that is bathing in cynism and passiveness. Do I need to change my attitude?? Let it....rest? I'm not sure. Forum members in here need to realize that you can honestly apoligize, can be empathic with others, give them a cyber-hug if someone feels offended, empower them to do better. We are all human beings, some are more emotional than others. But basically saying "Aaah it's better to cut your crap, delete that petition and take a hike" is never nice. Not to mention the way this topic evolves, and how obviously people are belittling my intentions. Hence I think even your lengthy remark falls a bit flat......or comes at least at a wrong moment.
Do I need to....stop? Swallow it? Cut it? No. Others need to show a bit more respect in here.....and offer something more than a suicidal destruction of someone's hard work.
You say no discussion about the contents of your letter and your arguments have been occurring, but that's exactly what I see. From the very first page I and other members were taking parts of your article/message and debating why we had the opinions we did about it. We argued by the distributor issue wasn't a big concern, why fan panels wouldn't work, why we didn't see the film industry as cut off from fans and why we didn't think the Bond franchise was going anywhere or in danger of death. We responded to every piece of your letter, quite fairly, might I add, so I don't know what more you expect.
If this bugs you so much and you lost sleep over the concept of a simple petition, I seriously think you need to ease off the gas and not let it bother you so much. It's not worth getting upset over the views of others that have largely been pretty damn fair, and that haven't been this slander campaign or hate brigade you make these responses out to be.
Here is where I think you're losing the context of the argument and just letting things get to you that aren't there: If you have a problem with members being realistic about their responses to you, I think that's a problem on your side and not ours. There is no utility in not thinking rationally and no point in not imagining what could really happen, as anything else is a delusion in the service of a soft and illogical ideal. That's not cynical or passive, that's just how it is. You can stand on the edge of a cliff and swear to everyone that you'll fly when you leap off, but it's not the cynic or kill joy who says you're going to plummet to your death. It's just a rational person trying to save you some hurt feelings in the long run, to serve you a slice of reality as you become lost in some dreams that, while well-intentioned, don't stack up to how things really are. Any chance you could direct me to any post that said anything even remotely close to this, arguing that you should just give up on everything and shouldn't have even bothered in the first place? Again, I don't think you give your responders enough credit, and you even went so far as to make out that a large part of the community had a big issue with where the series is headed and its state of existence when, as you can see, the vast majority aren't bothered at all. Your response to your feedback has been to listen to the loud minority, and not the very peaceful majority that have treated you far fairer than you credit. Again, taking our responses as dedicated thrashings of all you care for isn't really the full picture, or even a corner of it. You may be exaggerating points and taking too much to heart. I won't try to tell you exactly how to feel about our posts, nor will I continue to argue why I don't see things as you do, but perhaps you could imagine that you and just you alone are the only one who sees these responses as a "suicidal destruction" of your time and effort. That could in fact tell you a lot, and of how you are taking our words and warping them into what they aren't in your hyper-emotional state.
I just don't see people telling you not to bother, to swallow your pride or cut it out, or the vast majority being disrespectful, @Gustav_Graves. I do see people trying to be honest with you about what you've presented, however, and to me honesty is more important than someone patting me on the back and agreeing with me just to placate me and mitigate my emotional reaction afterward. That's nannying and cosseting, and I don't approve. I don't think you'd want that either, for people to tell you what you want to hear regardless of how much they disagree with you, as you know how debates work and of the importance in everyone having their honest say.
It seems we're in disagreement with the tone of the response to your letter and some of the content and members' messages, but I hope you can see the point of view from the other side for what it is too. Not a defense against your fun or efforts, but a logical and thought out response to the content of what you presented. Because sometimes being realistic isn't cynicism, and sometimes people aren't disrespecting you just because they don't agree with everything you say. These are important delineations to make.
I'll just conclude my final thoughts with this: I don't think a letter with no substance worth arguing over or one that we all thought was pointless could've generated a full 4 pages of discussion in less than two days. More than anything, the size of discussion generated by your work should tell you that it does address important concerns worth debating, and that by presenting your thoughts you did light some fires under members that led to some interesting discourse about the series, where it's at and its future amongst us. You may not see that as a positive result, but I do.
It's the nature of the forum environment to share perspective and debate, and while some can go too far at times in teasing, I think on the whole this thread represents another example of how the majority can argue for their side without ridiculing or bullying others who don't agree. It should be viewed as a massive positive that we can have these discussions here, and that they can involve so many contentious points of interest in relation to the franchise that we can come together to throw ideas around over. You may not see it like that now, but in fairer mood I hope you do.
Exactly...members rankings show that big time..i'm one of the worst, putting the popular TLD as my bottom film #24 :))
That's not true. Bond fans in here agreed on this. More than 100 fans agreed on this, agreed on this outcome. That gives us a better understanding how the average fan in here things:
Why Always so negative. There's a lot that fans have in common. Why not trying to find the things fans agree on....
There is an old addage, it goes something along the lines "too many cooks in the kitchen." ... From someone who has worked in film to someone who hasn't, trust me.. It wouldn't work.
You've been pretty negative on the Brosnan era without batting an eye yet when people are critical of things in the Craig era it's EVERYONE'S BEING NEGATIVE!
But I think there is something to be said for the earlier suggestion of simply staying away from threads that irritate, annoy or upset you. I know I do - and it makes life much simpler.
The other thing that sprung to mind is the perception that everyone is hysterically despondent about Bond's future and lack of news is driving the franchise off a cliff. But this is coloured by being on this forum and in specific threads. There is a reason that B25, SP and SF threads get so much traffic.
But it's important to remember that people like embellishing, venting and delivering hyperbole - as you yourself said - it sometimes makes for funny or enjoyable reading.
It also makes up online people's personalities. I love TLD but I always have a giggle when Kara Milovy turns up knowing how much she is loathed by @barryt007 - I enjoy rewatching SF but can always hear @noSolaceleft ranting about every crumbling plot point. Any time I watch QoS I enjoy it more and that's because of the impassioned, articulate diatribes of @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 . Every time Tanner shows up I think of the VR headset image on this board and @TheWizardOfIce frothing at the mouth with homicidal rage. And you're part of that community @Gustav_Graves - so enjoy it, have a giggle and I wouldn't take everything as seriously as people sometimes write down. And I certainly wouldn't lose sleep over it.
I'm sure this is the case on most fan communities. I'd like things to be a bit more positive myself, in terms of having us not only state what we didn't like about the latest films, but what we did like, because even in something as criticized as Spectre there are good things. But even if that isn't the case, when the issues with the films are brought up in conversation, I see plenty of thoughtful opinions being thrown around.
Personally, while I can talk negatively at times, that's what happens when I'm in an analytical state of mind, in the specific context of this forum, where such things are encouraged. Find me outside of it --even watching the film itself, which is definitely not the same as thinking about it-- and even if it's not my favorite, I'll most likely talk about it in a positive mindset, since I am so fond of the Bond franchise and the Bond essence, the DNA, can be found to some degree in every single film. I'm sure that is not case with everyone, but I do suspect plenty of us are the same way. It wouldn't do any harm for us all to keep that in mind when posting, but if even if we don't, it's probably still true and at any rate, discussions here are generally civilized and thorough.
The Bond franchise today is just fine, not in great shape necessarily, but certainly in good shape. No matter what has gone wrong, I get the feeling the filmmakers are trying to do the best they can with it; they don't come across as being asleep at the wheel. In fact, I greatly enjoyed Spectre, shortcomings and all. Would I like the films to be released more often? Sure. Would I appreciate a change of tone? Certainly (already started with Spectre, anyway). Would I like ideas like the foster brother reveal to be absent from future films? Indubitably. But things are fine. Personally, I don't want or need to contribute to the making of future films, not as a fan, anyway.
But thanks for writing and sharing that letter, no doubt a sign of passion, which is always welcome!
I'd be there opening night, in the front row. I couldn't say it would be good, but I'd have to see that!
M “Bond you’re out of control!”
Bond “A-B-C-D-E..FG..AHHHH!!!”
Thanks @mattjoes . You're striking the perfect tone here. A tone I would like to hear a bit more often.
Better than the Brosnan pain face?
Nic dialling the melodramatic histrionics up to 11 would be a fabulous ham fest even by Cage standards.
James Bond - 007 status granted
"I'm an agent, I'm an agent, I'm an agent, I'm agent!!!!!!1111"
Intriguing logic.
By the same rationale I guess you'd vote for Hitler then?