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The MI6 Community Religion and Faith Discussion Space (for members of all faiths - and none!)

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    This thread of mine is becoming rather cheesy, wouldn't you say?

    Yes, it can sometimes be grating on the nerves.
    It's my worst thread I think, but strangely one of my most successful in terms of views and posts. That, and the ghost thread. Both are non-Bond threads so maybe I should branch out more in future?
    Well, @Dragonpol, my comment was simply a pun on the whole cheese theme and the Jesus cheese grater, not my real feelings. I've personally enjoyed the discussions I've been able to have here and have also gotten a lot off my chest that I couldn't release anywhere else because my neck of the woods is Christian country and I get gawked at when I say I'm an atheist. I find the internet has a greater sense of humor for these discussions and without the human element at play (by which I mean, no face to face discussions) it's far easier to debate with other avatars about these issues without that direct discourse getting in the way.

    I wouldn't say it's your worst thread at all, or that any of your threads have been failures. It's quite an accomplishment that you have created the only thread with a basis on religious discussion that hasn't been closed on this forum. That alone is a feat around these parts.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    It is, indeed, an interesting thread and despite all conflicting opinions a decent one. Proves we're not the negative bunch some have called us in the past. ;-)
    Well I did believe that, on both sides of the debate, we could at least be civilised. It was a gamble worth taking, in my view.
    There's definitely been moments where my anger at religion or its effects comes out, but I think this is by far the most civilized thread on religion we've ever had and that's very encouraging. I've also found that, of the religious members we have here, they are more spiritual than hardcore religious, taking maxims with which to lead their lives and doing good with what they take from their faith as opposed to beating the bible over every infidel's head with constant repetitions of ominous passages from the tome or using words of peace to cause division. That also is encouraging, and I wish more religious people were like those here if they chose to walk that path.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2017 Posts: 17,804
    I didn't take any offence at that remark, Brady. I was just musing on the unbelievable success of this thread in terms of participation by members here.

    Here's a video Christian testimony of a friend of mine called Wayne I've been meaning to post in this thread for a while. He's a great guy with his own successful You Tube channel. Enjoy!

  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,824
    I will try to watch when I have time, but it is a bit long.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,804
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I will try to watch when I have time, but it is a bit long.

    It is. Sorry. It's a worthwhile watch though.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,824
    Will try asap. Been busy with Christmas preparations and being sick to make things more difficult.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,804
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Will try asap. Been busy with Christmas preparations and being sick to make things more difficult.

    There's no rush. 'Tis the season for chaos!
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,600
    Imagine if someone admitted to you that they had carried out the most horrible sexual crimes against children. What kind of person would not report this admission to the Police ? (both to bring justice and to prevent future children from experiencing abuse)

    It's remarkable that it takes a Royal Commission to confirm that going to the Police is the decent thing to do. Others seem to differ....Only religion could create such a twisted and deformed set of moral norms that states that protecting the abuser is the right thing to do.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/15/royal-commission-final-report-australia-child-abuse
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,824
    Like Roy Moore being defended by fellow Christians for his alleged sex crimes because Mary was a teenager and it's OK to have sex with underage girls according to the Bible.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Like Roy Moore being defended by fellow Christians for his alleged sex crimes because Mary was a teenager and it's OK to have sex with underage girls according to the Bible.

    Well to be fair wasn't Mary supposed to have been about 12 or 13 when God got her up the duff?

    And even if she was of legal age where was the consent?

    It's one rule for Savile and Weinstein and another for God.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,544
    Zeus did the same thing.

    But wait, Christians don't believe in Zeus. Such atheists they are!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2017 Posts: 17,804
    patb wrote: »
    Imagine if someone admitted to you that they had carried out the most horrible sexual crimes against children. What kind of person would not report this admission to the Police ? (both to bring justice and to prevent future children from experiencing abuse)

    It's remarkable that it takes a Royal Commission to confirm that going to the Police is the decent thing to do. Others seem to differ....Only religion could create such a twisted and deformed set of moral norms that states that protecting the abuser is the right thing to do.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/15/royal-commission-final-report-australia-child-abuse

    We've disagreed on many things in this thread, but...

    Let me just say as a Christian and a Masters law graduate that I totally agree that these are matters for the police and the law courts, not for any church or religious organisation to preside over.

    I believe firmly in the rule of law, and only the professionals should be dealing with matters like these. No one is above the law, and thank goodness for it. Any other church or body is not to be trusted with such matters, as the disgraceful and utterly criminal cover-up of child sexual abuse in churches and religious organisations over the past decades has shown.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited December 2017 Posts: 45,489
    Some people are above the law, don t kid yourself.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2017 Posts: 17,804
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Spme people are above the law.

    I think that culture is changing, though. Operation Yewtree for example has shown that with its high-profile arrests, trials and convictions for historic child abuse.

    That is something to be welcomed and it is hope for the future than such heinous crimes will never again be simply brushed under the carpet by officialdom.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Do you think the richest people on the planet are subject to law? No, they own it.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,804
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Do you think the richest people on the planet are subject to law? No, they own it.

    They can pay for the best barristers and legal services, I grant you.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    They pay the court itself.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,804
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    They pay the court itself.

    That all depends on the country and the level of corruption therein, I would say.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Not many countries those people don t own.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,804
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Not many countries those people don t own.

    That's very sad if true. No one should be above the law.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Spme people are above the law.

    I think that culture is changing, though. Operation Yewtree for example has shown that with its high-profile arrests, trials and convictions for historic child abuse.

    That is something to be welcomed and it is hope for the future than such heinous crimes will never again be simply brushed under the carpet by officialdom.

    How many priests has Yewtree nicked? If you're a 70s DJ the police will leave no stone unturned in convicting you for patting a bird on the arse 40 years ago but if you're in the clergy go merrily about your business.

    (And before you counter with 'investigating the clergy isn't Yewtree's remit' I simply mean where is the Yewtree for religion? Are you telling me there are no paedo priests in this country just Ireland and America? Why has still no one ever been convicted of FGM?)
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Do you think the richest people on the planet are subject to law? No, they own it.

    They can pay for the best barristers and legal services, I grant you.

    The Vatican certainly can
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It's great to have increased punishment across the board for anyone committing crimes, but as @TheWizardOfIce has implied, I'll really see the change if The Vatican actually becomes accountable for anything. Only a religious body of Catholics (somehow free of any backlash because God is on their side) could circumvent law and order and set aside their own little country in Italy free from the eyes of police, oversight, regulation and yes, criminal punishment because of how they've protected themselves. The system is perfectly set up to mitigate interference from the outside and decrease the amount of outside influence that can be directed at those on the inside and nobody seems to care because it's religion and everything is permitted in that case.

    Just as I would be locked up in an insane asylum for starting a cult where wafers and water are actually the flesh and blood of my spiritual guide and I'd be called totalitarian and indecent for requiring my followers from confessing their sins whenever they were committed, when all kinds of immoral, out of date, horrific and unlawful acts can be openly excused if you're waving a cross and say that you are working for God. Ridiculous.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Why do you thnk Benedict actually resigned?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    The glorious effect of when education meets Creationism (God level amounts of sarcasm here):



  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,600
    I would like to think that the recent OFSTED report represents a new era in that the establishment is willing to be honest and formally recognise the issues that many have been pointing out for years.
    But the response from government has been poor and they clearly have ;little interest in grasping the nettle. Full respect to Ms Spielman.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/dec/16/ofsted-chief-receives-threats-over-private-faith-school-criticism
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,824
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Zeus did the same thing.

    But wait, Christians don't believe in Zeus. Such atheists they are!

    At least Zeus never try to claim his actions were just, good and moral. He slept around because he could.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,544
    Zeus puts Harvey Weinstein to shame.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,824
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Zeus puts Harvey Weinstein to shame.

    At least Zeus can take a pleasant form.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,600
    where would be be as a species if faith was practiced without question? Human sacrifice, witch burning, the crusades, FGM etc etc. Questioning ourselves and each other can only be a good thing. Does May actually understand what she is saying?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42469087?SThisFB
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited December 2017 Posts: 23,544
    When politicians pride on religion in their public announcements, they should be deprived of their powers.

    *thinks*
    "God bless America."
    Ah well, there you have it.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2017 Posts: 17,804
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Why do you thnk Benedict actually resigned?

    Could it be because he feared it would be a repeat of 1978 if he didn't resign?
This discussion has been closed.