Let's talk about Spectre's torture scene

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Comments

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2020 Posts: 18,003
    If anything just like acupuncture, those deep penetrating probes, could actually
    have invigorated 007 ! helping his balance and fashion sense, making him not
    just a better agent but a better man !

    Sounds like Austin Powers, old chap.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I have no knowledge of Austin's old chap ! ;-)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,003
    I have no knowledge of Austin's old chap ! ;-)

    I'm more of a Bentley kind of toff!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Good for you AP is crap.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,003
    Or Dragonpol.

    Quite. I'd have done a much better job. For less money too.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,728
    Again, I had 2 wisdom teeth yanked out, and one was infected so the novacane wasn't working- the oral surgeon suggested we stop & that I take antibiotics & re-schedule. I was impatient and told him to just DO it. It was the most pain I've ever felt; the roots were deep and curved. And if I were so inclined, I could have killed him after extraction on the spot. So yeah, I can totally buy the scene as presented. ;)
  • Posts: 4,405
    The real question is: Is this scene as risible as the DAD Ice surfing???

    Spectre-1120.jpg
    Die-Another-Day.jpg
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    I like the torture scene a lot. It's what follows it I don't love.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    The real question is: Is this scene as risible as the DAD Ice surfing???

    Spectre-1120.jpg
    Die-Another-Day.jpg

    Nope, but your question is. :D

    Anyway, unfortunately, that scene never really worked.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    The real question is: Is this scene as risible as the DAD Ice surfing???

    Spectre-1120.jpg
    Die-Another-Day.jpg

    Both are horrendous, which bad should i choose? well at least DAD was exciting and ridiculous . SP was plain boring and ridiculous.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    I like the torture scene a lot. It's what follows it I don't love.

    Me too. The torture scene is intense and well acted. The escape is utterly ridiculous.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited June 2020 Posts: 4,247
    The torture scene has a sadistic playfulness to it, and it works. But the action immediately after Bond escapes, is too trite. Maybe taking the action further into the desert with a helicopter chasing and shooting at Bond and Madeleine, with Bond driving Blofeld's Rolls-Royce and Maybe have a Sandstorm disrupt and destroy the Helicopter, then have Bond and Madeleine chase and board a moving train....maybe all these would have improved the action, I think the lack of inventive action scenes further exposed SP's flaws. And the absence of Good music or the Bond theme doesn't help immediately after Bond escapes torture in the scene. The Bond theme compensates even if the action isn't too great.

    At least in DAD, even with its below par CGI, the action isn't entirely bad & the Bond theme is played triumphantly.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,350
    Good torture. I'm also good with the escape, it's like being in the zone on a rifle range.

    Bad CGI.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    The torture scene has a sadistic playfulness to it, and it works. But the action immediately after Bond escapes, is too trite. Maybe taking the action further into the desert with a helicopter chasing and shooting at Bond and Madeleine, with Bond driving Blofeld's Rolls-Royce and Maybe have a Sandstorm disrupt and destroy the Helicopter, then have Bond and Madeleine chase and board a moving train....maybe all these would have improved the action, I think the lack of inventive action scenes further exposed SP's flaws. And the absence of Good music or the Bond theme doesn't help immediately after Bond escapes torture in the scene. The Bond theme compensates even if the action isn't too great.

    At least in DAD, even with its below par CGI, the action isn't entirely bad & the Bond theme is played triumphantly.

    Agree with all of this. They should have extended the escape with an inventive action sequence and made it the end of the film, with a short epilogue (a la QoS).
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    The torture scene has a sadistic playfulness to it, and it works. But the action immediately after Bond escapes, is too trite. Maybe taking the action further into the desert with a helicopter chasing and shooting at Bond and Madeleine, with Bond driving Blofeld's Rolls-Royce and Maybe have a Sandstorm disrupt and destroy the Helicopter, then have Bond and Madeleine chase and board a moving train....maybe all these would have improved the action, I think the lack of inventive action scenes further exposed SP's flaws. And the absence of Good music or the Bond theme doesn't help immediately after Bond escapes torture in the scene. The Bond theme compensates even if the action isn't too great.

    At least in DAD, even with its below par CGI, the action isn't entirely bad & the Bond theme is played triumphantly.

    Agree with all of this. They should have extended the escape with an inventive action sequence and made it the end of the film, with a short epilogue (a la QoS).

    Exactly, something of this ilk.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    The torture scene has a sadistic playfulness to it, and it works. But the action immediately after Bond escapes, is too trite. Maybe taking the action further into the desert with a helicopter chasing and shooting at Bond and Madeleine, with Bond driving Blofeld's Rolls-Royce and Maybe have a Sandstorm disrupt and destroy the Helicopter, then have Bond and Madeleine chase and board a moving train....maybe all these would have improved the action, I think the lack of inventive action scenes further exposed SP's flaws. And the absence of Good music or the Bond theme doesn't help immediately after Bond escapes torture in the scene. The Bond theme compensates even if the action isn't too great.

    At least in DAD, even with its below par CGI, the action isn't entirely bad & the Bond theme is played triumphantly.

    Agree with all of this. They should have extended the escape with an inventive action sequence and made it the end of the film, with a short epilogue (a la QoS).

    Exactly, something of this ilk.

    Imagine if the epilogue was just showing Blofeld, freshly scarred in London, maybe regrouping with some Spectre agents, and then he hits the button, and the last shot of the film is Vauxhall Cross being destroyed? No music, then cut to black. Would have been very symbolic and cool.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    The torture scene has a sadistic playfulness to it, and it works. But the action immediately after Bond escapes, is too trite. Maybe taking the action further into the desert with a helicopter chasing and shooting at Bond and Madeleine, with Bond driving Blofeld's Rolls-Royce and Maybe have a Sandstorm disrupt and destroy the Helicopter, then have Bond and Madeleine chase and board a moving train....maybe all these would have improved the action, I think the lack of inventive action scenes further exposed SP's flaws. And the absence of Good music or the Bond theme doesn't help immediately after Bond escapes torture in the scene. The Bond theme compensates even if the action isn't too great.

    At least in DAD, even with its below par CGI, the action isn't entirely bad & the Bond theme is played triumphantly.

    Agree with all of this. They should have extended the escape with an inventive action sequence and made it the end of the film, with a short epilogue (a la QoS).

    Exactly, something of this ilk.

    Imagine if the epilogue was just showing Blofeld, freshly scarred in London, maybe regrouping with some Spectre agents, and then he hits the button, and the last shot of the film is Vauxhall Cross being destroyed? No music, then cut to black. Would have been very symbolic and cool.

    Cool, sounds Stylishly Sinister. It seems everytime we review SP, it further reveals how much of a missed opportunity it is. I know film directing isn't easy....but, each time we suggest ideas that would have improved SP in this forum, we sound like acclaimed Film Directors LOL.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    The torture scene has a sadistic playfulness to it, and it works. But the action immediately after Bond escapes, is too trite. Maybe taking the action further into the desert with a helicopter chasing and shooting at Bond and Madeleine, with Bond driving Blofeld's Rolls-Royce and Maybe have a Sandstorm disrupt and destroy the Helicopter, then have Bond and Madeleine chase and board a moving train....maybe all these would have improved the action, I think the lack of inventive action scenes further exposed SP's flaws. And the absence of Good music or the Bond theme doesn't help immediately after Bond escapes torture in the scene. The Bond theme compensates even if the action isn't too great.

    At least in DAD, even with its below par CGI, the action isn't entirely bad & the Bond theme is played triumphantly.

    Agree with all of this. They should have extended the escape with an inventive action sequence and made it the end of the film, with a short epilogue (a la QoS).

    Exactly, something of this ilk.

    Imagine if the epilogue was just showing Blofeld, freshly scarred in London, maybe regrouping with some Spectre agents, and then he hits the button, and the last shot of the film is Vauxhall Cross being destroyed? No music, then cut to black. Would have been very symbolic and cool.

    Cool, sounds Stylishly Sinister. It seems everytime we review SP, it further reveals how much of a missed opportunity it is. I know film directing isn't easy....but, each time we suggest ideas that would have improved SP in this forum, we sound like acclaimed Film Directors LOL.

    Lol for sure :P
    I think a wide shot of MI6 falling to the ground to end the film would have been a great way to set up the threat of Blofeld and Spectre for future films, had they not made SP to be a send off to Craig. Would have mirrored the explosion of Blofeld’s base as well.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    The torture scene has a sadistic playfulness to it, and it works. But the action immediately after Bond escapes, is too trite. Maybe taking the action further into the desert with a helicopter chasing and shooting at Bond and Madeleine, with Bond driving Blofeld's Rolls-Royce and Maybe have a Sandstorm disrupt and destroy the Helicopter, then have Bond and Madeleine chase and board a moving train....maybe all these would have improved the action, I think the lack of inventive action scenes further exposed SP's flaws. And the absence of Good music or the Bond theme doesn't help immediately after Bond escapes torture in the scene. The Bond theme compensates even if the action isn't too great.

    At least in DAD, even with its below par CGI, the action isn't entirely bad & the Bond theme is played triumphantly.

    Agree with all of this. They should have extended the escape with an inventive action sequence and made it the end of the film, with a short epilogue (a la QoS).

    Exactly, something of this ilk.

    Imagine if the epilogue was just showing Blofeld, freshly scarred in London, maybe regrouping with some Spectre agents, and then he hits the button, and the last shot of the film is Vauxhall Cross being destroyed? No music, then cut to black. Would have been very symbolic and cool.

    Cool, sounds Stylishly Sinister. It seems everytime we review SP, it further reveals how much of a missed opportunity it is. I know film directing isn't easy....but, each time we suggest ideas that would have improved SP in this forum, we sound like acclaimed Film Directors LOL.

    Lol for sure :P
    I think a wide shot of MI6 falling to the ground to end the film would have been a great way to set up the threat of Blofeld and Spectre for future films, had they not made SP to be a send off to Craig. Would have mirrored the explosion of Blofeld’s base as well.

    Yeah, I can imagine this.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    edited June 2020 Posts: 2,609
    I'm actually rather content with the torture scene and the last 40 minutes or so of SP although they have their many weaknesses. While the DAD scene looks so extremely artificial that not even the Bond theme can help it a bit, IMO.

    I agree that the torture scene (in which I can accept Blofeld having scientific reason for what he's doing, somehow) should have been followed by an extensive action scene. It shouldn't have ended there though without a great ending. I think SP needs both Morocco and London for a somewhat satisfyingly spectacular Bond film ending.

    Nice idea with the MI6 explosion :--) but I prefer happy endings.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited June 2020 Posts: 7,527
    marc wrote: »
    I'm actually rather content with the torture scene and the last 30 minutes or so of SP although they have their many weaknesses. While the DAD scene looks so extremely artificial that not even the Bond theme can help it a bit, IMO.

    I agree that the torture scene (in which I can accept Blofeld having scientific reason for what he's doing, somehow) should have been followed by an extensive action scene. It shouldn't have ended there though without a great ending. I think SP needs both Morocco and London for a somewhat satisfyingly spectacular Bond film ending.

    Nice idea with the MI6 explosion :--) but I prefer happy endings.

    Very much fair enough! And they definitely wanted a happy ending for this one as well, what with it being (what they thought at the time, I'm sure, as) Craig's sendoff.

    I did like the moment, though, where the lair explodes, and you see Bond and Swann fly off in one direction, and Blofeld & Friends drive off in the other. Like the destruction of the lair was just one chess move in their broader game, and both teams move forward to regroup and battle again.
    This (to me) further illustrates that the huge explosion was caused by someone hitting the 'self destruct' on the lair; in the grand scheme of things this lair was just one of Spectre's many pieces on the board.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    edited June 2020 Posts: 2,609
    Yes, I guess the majority of people wants to see happy endings. Now I really like the stylish sad ending of OHMSS, but I didn't like it as a teenager.

    Nice aspect with the two teams. But they should have shown the bad guys more in this scene, if that concept is correct at that moment (or did they, a bit later? can't remember). I've also never heard of this interesting self destruct theory.
    Anyhow, I like the crater, Waltz, the explosion (although everything is too easy before) and the music score.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited June 2020 Posts: 7,527
    With regards to the self-destruct, that's what I thought the film was communicating to us when I watched it the first time, with the massive explosion (that doesn't really make sense to have been caused by Bond, except for some wild chain reaction, but Bond seems very surprised by it, and then mutters "this isn't over", which in my mind is a direct result of Bond realizing that Spectre is intentionally done with this resource, and moving onto the next), and the cars driving out of the building at the very end of the scene when Bond and Swann are flying off. DISCLAIMER: I have been accused of being a "Craig fan who will make up whatever bull**** to explain the awfulness of the DC films". ;)

    I think it's important to pay close attention to those little lines, like "this isn't over", which carry a lot of weight in communicating what's going on. Similarly to "too easy", which Bond utters in GoldenEye when he and Alec break into the gas tanks room, indicating Alec and Ourumov were working together at that point, and their idea was to get Bond and Alec into that room to stage Alec's death. Nothing is random.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,609
    It is possible Spectre had amassed explosives for this biggest film explosion ever at some point of time, but why would Blofeld risk so many of his men dying and rather think of pushing this button instead of trying everything to kill Bond?
    I have been accused of being a "Craig fan who will make up whatever bull**** to explain the awfulness of the DC films". ;)
    Well, if making up something or putting forth a theory is entertaining, why not? :--)

    The plotting done by Trevelyan and Ourumov is really great. 😄
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    marc wrote: »
    It is possible Spectre had amassed explosives for this biggest film explosion ever at some point of time, but why would Blofeld risk so many of his men dying and rather think of pushing this button instead of trying everything to kill Bond?
    I have been accused of being a "Craig fan who will make up whatever bull**** to explain the awfulness of the DC films". ;)
    Well, if making up something or putting forth a theory is entertaining, why not? :--)

    The plotting done by Trevelyan and Ourumov is really great. 😄

    My thought was that Blofeld was incapacitated and needed his men to get him out, and one of these henchmen hit the switch, maybe on an order to do so “if the facility was ever compromised” or something to that effect?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,575
    marc wrote: »
    It is possible Spectre had amassed explosives for this biggest film explosion ever at some point of time, but why would Blofeld risk so many of his men dying and rather think of pushing this button instead of trying everything to kill Bond?
    I have been accused of being a "Craig fan who will make up whatever bull**** to explain the awfulness of the DC films". ;)
    Well, if making up something or putting forth a theory is entertaining, why not? :--)

    The plotting done by Trevelyan and Ourumov is really great. 😄

    My thought was that Blofeld was incapacitated and needed his men to get him out, and one of these henchmen hit the switch, maybe on an order to do so “if the facility was ever compromised” or something to that effect?

    Could be. There are massive gas tanks everywhere, aren't there? Is it mentioned why they're there?
    :D
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,609
    I'll have to rewatch the scene, hope I can manage tomorrow. Today I could just watch part of it on Youtube, and there are indeed two possibly separate explosions. My question was, based on how you described it, whether Blofeld didn't risk too much with himself and his valuable coworkers not really being safely evacuated. Or is he such an explosions expert that he could be sure it wouldn't harm him? "Science was never my strong point." (which, I admit, sounds strange coming from Blofeld and could well be a huge understatement)

    The gas tanks were there because the Spectre organisation craved the Guinness record for the biggest film stunt explosion ever, but they couldn't mention that. 😊
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    I still don't think it would have been Blofeld himself. You can see by the motorcade fleeing the installation there were several people who escaped. Likely what happened was that a small group of Spectre agents (including his personal assistant/bodyguard, who can be seen in Rome, Morocco and London at the end) retrieved Blofeld and ran him out of there, and could have just flipped the switch on the way out.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,609
    I've watched the scene now and saw two cars leaving the area; OK, it's well possible that this is Blofeld escaping. It just seems somewhat odd, if the filmmakers wanted to bring across this fact, that it's barely visible to an average viewer. Or is that because Bond is still so afraid of Spectre's power (for Madeleine) or under time pressure that he doesn't pursue Blofeld, at least from a safe distance, so they hardly showed Blofeld escape? Because it seems a bit 'non-Bondish' to put her well-being over his mission and the pursuit of the 'this time it's personal' archenemy.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    I think it’s inarguably Blofeld escaping in those cars. How else would he be alive in London?
    I think the debate is whether or not they activated a self destruct on the Lair.

    I think Bond and Swann both assume Blofeld to be dead in the lair, hence the line “the deceased head of Spectre, Ernst Stavro Blofeld” in London. Showing the cars driving away from the exploding lair is just for us. Bond doesn’t see it.
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