Is Pierce Brosnan really all that bad ??

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  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,989
    Creasy47 wrote:
    THAT'S what I'm talking about. All along, that's what Brosnan wanted: a more realistic take to Bond, ala Craig.

    @Dragonpol, you, uhh, wanna give me a way to get into contact with him and make me the happiest person in the world? :-D

    Yes, it seems he was let more than down a tad by others, though GE and TWINE were brilliant. Brosnan should have had a fifth Bond in 2004/5, too. I'll have to try my method first, then I'll be happy to share it with you (if it does indeed work).
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,353
    Just look at this answer:

    Playboy: How does it feel to be told that you’re too old?

    Brosnan: It was kind of shocking to have ageism come on me when I was just getting started. It’s shocking to be told that you’re too old, that you’re past your sell-by date.

    Eh, what?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,989
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Just look at this answer:

    Playboy: How does it feel to be told that you’re too old?

    Brosnan: It was kind of shocking to have ageism come on me when I was just getting started. It’s shocking to be told that you’re too old, that you’re past your sell-by date.

    Eh, what?

    It seems that he thought he had a few Bonds in him yet then. He did say he might do a fifth and even a sixth after DAD was released, so perhaps that is what he meant, no?
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,353
    Maybe, and I agree, he wanted six but how is two thirds of your time "just getting started"?

    When asked about an ideal Bond girl, he gives another dig to EON:

    Brosnan: Monica Bellucci is a ravishing beauty — a gorgeous, gorgeous woman. She screen-tested to be a Bond girl a while back and the fools said no. Teri Hatcher stole the day instead.

    And also adds:

    "It would have been great to have sex scenes that were right on the button."
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,682
    I remember how crushed I was when I heard that he wasn't going to be doing another Bond after DAD. I was young and thought the world of DAD, just a fantastic movie in my eyes then, and he was my favorite Bond even then.

    Seems with the sex, violence, fighting, shooting, even smoking, he wanted it all in and all of it to be more realistic. I feel like he wanted to be as young as he was in GE again just so he could do what Craig does now. It's a shame, his placement in the series, being too old at the time when they wanted to do exactly what Brosnan wanted throughout his entire tenure.

    @Dragonpol, sounds excellent, keep me posted on updates and how that goes for you.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,989
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I remember how crushed I was when I heard that he wasn't going to be doing another Bond after DAD. I was young and thought the world of DAD, just a fantastic movie in my eyes then, and he was my favorite Bond even then.

    Seems with the sex, violence, fighting, shooting, even smoking, he wanted it all in and all of it to be more realistic. I feel like he wanted to be as young as he was in GE again just so he could do what Craig does now. It's a shame, his placement in the series, being too old at the time when they wanted to do exactly what Brosnan wanted throughout his entire tenure.

    @Dragonpol, sounds excellent, keep me posted on updates and how that goes for you.

    Yes, that is very ironic indeed and eloquently put by yourself, @Creasy47. I'll keep you posted on my project to contact PB, certainly and if I have any luck I'll certainly forward the contact details to you by PM.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,682
    Thank you, @Dragonpol. It's a shame, but true, and it makes me feel for him even more. Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the few who absolutely loves what he brought to the table, even if he didn't make it his own and feels like he was just mimicking different entries in the series, but after seeing films like 'The Matador' and 'The Tailor of Panama,' he had such a different side to him that I would've loved to see a more gritty, realistic take of. Makes me think of David Caruso, who is just so bland and one-sided in 'CSI: Miami,' but every time I see one of his films, he just takes me by surprise with his acting and emotional range.

    That would mean a lot to me, let me know how it goes! Hope it works for you.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited November 2013 Posts: 13,353
    One more here, when asked about Die Another Day:

    "As soon as he got into the tie back in Hong Kong and cleaned up with the Remington product-placement razor, he was back in the f***ing straitjacket."

    "They're too scared to take him out of the bag too much and have a real dramatic moment."

    The moral of the story here kids, is speak up!

    Brosnan is a far better actor outside of Bond and had he given us that in the role, things may have been very different indeed.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Samuel001 wrote:
    One more here, when asked about Die Another Day:

    "As soon as he got into the tie back in Hong Kong and cleaned up with the Remington product-placement razor, he was back in the f***ing straitjacket."

    The moral of the story here kids, is speak up!

    You've got it absolutely spot on. For all it's faults, for all the embarrassing CGI, invisible cars etc. What I hate more than anything else about DAD, is that the initial plot was ditched, 15 minutes after the PTS. I blame everyone involved for this mess.
  • Posts: 14,906
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Just look at this answer:

    Playboy: How does it feel to be told that you’re too old?

    Brosnan: It was kind of shocking to have ageism come on me when I was just getting started. It’s shocking to be told that you’re too old, that you’re past your sell-by date.

    Eh, what?

    He was in denial then, for sure. Maybe, maybe he had a fifth one in him, like his FYEO, had they released one for 2004. But that was about it. He was simply getting too old, and it seems not humble enough to admit it.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,682
    I think Brosnan had a fifth one in him, and it's a shame he had to go out the way he did (DAD), but in a way, I'm glad he was done when he was, so it didn't turn into something where he was too old and just wasn't looking up to an assignment any longer. Sometimes I wish we could return to DAD with one hell of a script that wouldn't turn it into such a bizarre, ridiculous story. Ditch the gene therapy, obvious CGI, invisible cars, parasailing, all of it. I thought the PTS story set up was fine, they didn't need to turn Moon into Graves. Should've kept the former around, and as Bond returns to investigate the conflict diamonds, he finds out that Moon is indeed alive and well. I don't know, I'm spitballing, but something, anything could've made it leagues better.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited November 2013 Posts: 13,353
    Ludovico wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Just look at this answer:

    Playboy: How does it feel to be told that you’re too old?

    Brosnan: It was kind of shocking to have ageism come on me when I was just getting started. It’s shocking to be told that you’re too old, that you’re past your sell-by date.

    Eh, what?

    He was in denial then, for sure. Maybe, maybe he had a fifth one in him, like his FYEO, had they released one for 2004. But that was about it. He was simply getting too old, and it seems not humble enough to admit it.

    He was no where near 60, so I think there could have got two more out of him. 2005 and 2007 seemed to be the plan.

    What gets me is how Brosnan seemed to have not read or even know about the books. In interviews he's said there's about seven of them, he comes across as not in the know in his first interview on the day of the Die Another Day conference and on the whole, both he and EON seemed to not have any idea what they were doing. It is all such a mess. Brosnan must have only turned up, done the Bond thing and went home. He's just the image of Bond and that's it. Again, what a mess and what a shame. One silver lining is, at last they have learnt their lesson.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,682
    @Samuel001, that's what I love about Craig, even hearing about him and Mendes talking about their favorite Fleming novels and returning to them as they worked on SF. I always appreciate that. Even game-to-film adaptations, which are 99% trash, I would like the people working on it to have some concept of the game, and with the 'Assassin's Creed' film coming up with Fassbender, he said he has never played it at all. I mean, it isn't a prerequisite, but some form of how the game play and how the stories and abilities work would lend a little insight into your film character, I would presume.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,989
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Samuel001, that's what I love about Craig, even hearing about him and Mendes talking about their favorite Fleming novels and returning to them as they worked on SF. I always appreciate that. Even game-to-film adaptations, which are 99% trash, I would like the people working on it to have some concept of the game, and with the 'Assassin's Creed' film coming up with Fassbender, he said he has never played it at all. I mean, it isn't a prerequisite, but some form of how the game play and how the stories and abilities work would lend a little insight into your film character, I would presume.

    Agreed on the greatness of Fleming faithfulness. Another point occurred to me in reading your post: Roger Moore and Pierce Brosnan have much in common when it comes to James Bond and in the brilliance of their acting outside of that role.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,682
    @Dragonpol, they appeared to have the same personalities and attitudes throughout doing James Bond, but seeing their non-Bond films, they really are completely different actors. Moore is so lighthearted, kind, and funny through his Bond tenure, but then I see this misogynistic leader of a man in 'ffolkes' and I was surprised. Even Brosnan with the two aforementioned films I named, he's just this gritty, overly sexual, cold person in those films, and I think seeing him in a grittier Bond would've been nice, the sex, blood, realism, and cigarettes included.

    I don't remember what it is exactly, but there's a quote of his that I love where he talks about the cigarettes, sex, and blood being all there (in the Fleming novels), and I think that's when he was asked about his films and what he thought of them. It was just Pierce pointing out how his films were different from Fleming's in that way, and that's what he really wanted to do.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited November 2013 Posts: 17,989
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Dragonpol, they appeared to have the same personalities and attitudes throughout doing James Bond, but seeing their non-Bond films, they really are completely different actors. Moore is so lighthearted, kind, and funny through his Bond tenure, but then I see this misogynistic leader of a man in 'ffolkes' and I was surprised. Even Brosnan with the two aforementioned films I named, he's just this gritty, overly sexual, cold person in those films, and I think seeing him in a grittier Bond would've been nice, the sex, blood, realism, and cigarettes included.

    I don't remember what it is exactly, but there's a quote of his that I love where he talks about the cigarettes, sex, and blood being all there (in the Fleming novels), and I think that's when he was asked about his films and what he thought of them. It was just Pierce pointing out how his films were different from Fleming's in that way, and that's what he really wanted to do.

    Agreed @Creasy47 that both actors could shock in other films. Could this be the passage from the December 2005 Playboy interview that @Samuel001 kindly posted earlier in the thread?:


    All the movies made money. Creatively, maybe, they could have been stronger, but they were Bond movies, and they advanced a certain degree out of the doldrums where they had been. They were tricky to do. I never really felt as as though I nailed it. As soon as they put me into a suit and tie and gave me those lines of dialogue, I felt restricted. It was like the same old same old. I was doing Roger Moore doing Sean Connery doing George Lazenby. I felt as if I were doing a period piece dusted off. They never really took the risks they should have. It would have been great to light up and smoke cigarettes, for instance. It would have been great to have the killing a little more real and not wussed down. My boys watch the movies on DVD, so I see them from time to time. I see myself with nowhere to go, and it’s all rather bland.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,682
    Absolutely. I think he was just given better roles in films like 'The Matador' and 'The Tailor of Panama' with a lot more freedom in how to go about the role and his dialogue. I guess being pressured into playing the Bond they wanted you to play wasn't that good for him.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,989
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Absolutely. I think he was just given better roles in films like 'The Matador' and 'The Tailor of Panama' with a lot more freedom in how to go about the role and his dialogue. I guess being pressured into playing the Bond they wanted you to play wasn't that good for him.

    I think that's right - like he said himself he felt as though he was "strait-jacketed" in the role of James Bond by the powers at the time.
  • Dragonpol wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Absolutely. I think he was just given better roles in films like 'The Matador' and 'The Tailor of Panama' with a lot more freedom in how to go about the role and his dialogue. I guess being pressured into playing the Bond they wanted you to play wasn't that good for him.

    I think that's right - like he said himself he felt as though he was "strait-jacketed" in the role of James Bond by the powers at the time.

    You can hardly blame them. They'd just taken a big risk (namely Licence to Kill) and it blew up in their faces. The same thing happened after On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

    As a matter of fact, the Craig era is one of the first times the franchise has gone from over-the-top to subdued and gritty and had it succeed wildly. For Your Eyes Only was necessary after Moonraker and The Living Daylights was a slight step up (financially, not artistically) from A View to a Kill, but nothing on the scale of Casino Royale or Skyfall.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 14,906
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Just look at this answer:

    Playboy: How does it feel to be told that you’re too old?

    Brosnan: It was kind of shocking to have ageism come on me when I was just getting started. It’s shocking to be told that you’re too old, that you’re past your sell-by date.

    Eh, what?

    He was in denial then, for sure. Maybe, maybe he had a fifth one in him, like his FYEO, had they released one for 2004. But that was about it. He was simply getting too old, and it seems not humble enough to admit it.

    He was no where near 60, so I think there could have got two more out of him. 2005 and 2007 seemed to be the plan.

    What gets me is how Brosnan seemed to have not read or even know about the books. In interviews he's said there's about seven of them, he comes across as not in the know in his first interview on the day of the Die Another Day conference and on the whole, both he and EON seemed to not have any idea what they were doing. It is all such a mess. Brosnan must have only turned up, done the Bond thing and went home. He's just the image of Bond and that's it. Again, what a mess and what a shame. One silver lining is, at last they have learnt their lesson.

    This is something that disappointed me in him, even from day one, when I was happy that he was cast as Bond and thought he was the best since Connery. I read an interview in a French magazine and it struck me that he knew so very little, way less than me in fact, who had not read a single Fleming novel yet. Like I said in a previous comment here. Brosnan seemed more interested about playing the icon than the character, and in the end played him like an icon, an image. It is as if I wanted to play Sherlock Holmes for the hunting hat, the coat and the pipe. And not having read a single Sherlock Holmes story.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2013 Posts: 12,459
    From your earlier comments, @Samuel001; I agree with you. Michael and Barbara did not handle this graciously, nor in the best professional way, in my opinion.

    It is a shame that his tenure ended on DAD and this note. It didn't have to be like that. And if course so many of us would have liked for him to have one more Bond film, a good one, to finish with. Judi Dench included; I believe she really loved working with Pierce.

    Brosnan's films were in the old formula - for me, TND was supberbly done, he was a great Bond in it, yet it was still old school formula. Casino Royale blew that all away, and a good thing, too. But I do understand Pierce's frustrations from what he was given, and especially how his time as Bond was ended. In his shoes, wouldn't you feel that way, too? The last couple of years, and many fine and well regarded films (non Bond) later, Pierce has mellowed in what he says. I hope that for him he has moved on in every way; bitterness, even when warranted, eats away at a person. I think he has accomplished moving on after Bond very well, better than the other Bonds, overall.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,353
    I think, very much, seeing Skyfall and someone else playing Bond has helped Pierce overcome this. It was the remedy he needed and since last year seems very open about talking about his time as Bond, as well as others. It's a learning curve though and I very much doubt anyone playing Bond will go through what Brosnan did again. As I said earlier, a valuable lesson indeed.
  • Did Moore, Connery and Lazenby read all the books? I know Dalton and Craig did, I know Brosnan didn't and I know Lazenby read OHMSS but I'm curious about the rest of them.

    @Creasy47 But the Assassin's Creed film is actually being made by Ubisoft so I'm confident it'll be faithful to the source material. To be fair maybe Fassbender just doesn't like video games.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited November 2013 Posts: 13,353
    Did Moore, Connery and Lazenby read all the books?

    No but as you said Lazenby read the one book he needed to and Connery read a few - Thunderball, From Russia With Love and Live And Let Die - for his character building, asked why he did not read the rest he replied "I don't really know", whereas Moore took elements from what he read of the series as a whole. Brosnan didn't read a thing. He went along with Parkinson in a 2002 interview where they both comment, "there's not a lot to go on" from reading them...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Re if Bond actors read Fleming: I am pretty sure Connery did not, except maybe glance through one. I'll have to remember where I have read about that. Lazenby, I have no idea.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Re if Bond actors read Fleming: I am pretty sure Connery did not, except maybe glance through one. I'll have to remember where I have read about that. Lazenby, I have no idea.

    Connery was interviewed in '71 by the BBC whilst filming DAF and he confirmed he had only ever read 3 of the books.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Samuel001 wrote:
    No but as you said Lazenby read the one book he needed to and Connery read a few - Thunderball, From Russia With Love and Live And Let Die - for his character building, asked why he did not read the rest he replied "I don't really know", whereas Moore took elements from what he read of the series as a whole. Brosnan didn't read a thing. He went along with Parkinson in a 2002 interview where they both comment, "there's not a lot to go on" from reading them...
    I didn't realize that Brosnan was the only one who didn't read any Fleming at all. I'm a little surprised by that since he was such a huge Connery fan when he was young. I guess he only liked the films.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,353
    In interviews he has always talked about his love of the films and of Connery. That's where it all came from for him. Film Bond but never Book Bond.
  • Posts: 14,906
    Samuel001 wrote:
    In interviews he has always talked about his love of the films and of Connery. That's where it all came from for him. Film Bond but never Book Bond.

    That really disappoints me. I can understand Connery not reading many, after all it all started with a contract for him, at a time when Bond was obviously not what he is now.
  • Ludovico wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    In interviews he has always talked about his love of the films and of Connery. That's where it all came from for him. Film Bond but never Book Bond.

    That really disappoints me. I can understand Connery not reading many, after all it all started with a contract for him, at a time when Bond was obviously not what he is now.

    I suppose you have the right to be disappointed, but then it's his right as well to draw inspiration from anywhere in the Bond canon. I still very much like his take on the role, inspired by the films or the books or what.
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