The "Problem Eliminator" Thread - Are Bond Films Getting Too Big?

edited June 2015 in Bond 26 & Beyond Posts: 5,745
Welcome to the MI6 Community debate room, Bond fans.

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In this "Problem Eliminator" thread, we will discuss the more ridiculous Bond rumors as they come, and each user will analyze the evidence provided both for and against the argument, and then vote "For" or "Against". Each user is also encouraged to share any credible evidence they have available and each member should provide reasoning for their decision.
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Comments

  • edited June 2015 Posts: 5,745
    The first discussion we'll have is on the rumor that SPECTRE will be Craig's last film.

    The argument "For":

    This has come to light due to a rumor Damien Lewis is a favorite to replace Craig in the Bond role. A new user, @dmwalker has now created an account to inform us that his "source" confirmed that Craig is out.
    dmwalker wrote: »
    This is a MAJOR spoiler but being a big Bond fan, I'm finding it very hard to keep to myself. This was told to me during a meeting regarding an unconnected work project by pretty much the best possible source for such information, a KEY creative member of the SPECTRE team.
    SPECTRE will be Daniel Craig's last Bond. My source said that "something happens" during the film that will make it "impossible" for Craig to return. I don't know what that something is. Source also said that Craig's knee injury was much worse than people think and that this has changed the way they've had to shoot the film - shorter takes, fewer wide shots. This doesn't seem to be the reason for Craig leaving, though - it seems that was decided right at the beginning and it was the main reason Mendes agreed to return.

    I know this goes against what we've been led to believe about
    Craig's contractual obligations
    but it might explain recent news stories. In any case, this is what was told to me. I don't want this to be a "scoop" or I'd have taken it to some "news" site. I just want to discuss this with some other Bond fans, as it's boggling my mind wondering what that "something" could be.

    My argument "Against":

    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    antovolk wrote: »
    Well unless they've changed the ending, it's not impossible for Bond to come back at all. I'd take that info with a grain of salt.

    The thing about the ending is that it would work perfectly either way if Craig leaves or not - it would work with both SPECTRE being the last film, and if B25 is a YOLT re-make that people suggested

    It makes not sense to introduce whoever Waltz's character is (Blofeld or not, he's still the head of SPECTRE) and then reboot and ignore all of it or rely on the audience to be that forgiving.

    1. The audience WILL NOT be that forgiving to just continue the S.P.E.C.T.R.E. stuff - Craig's Bond lost Vesper, Craig's Bond fought Quantum, and Craig's Bond will now be fighting S.P.E.C.T.R.E... no other actor will be able to cary on any sort of S.P.E.C.T.R.E. storyline and not completely confuse casual viewers.

    2. It would be completely wasteful use of resources to not continue on with S.P.E.C.T.R.E. The last time they were used, we got five films out of them. We'll have one (three if you count Quantum) with Craig. That's such an ignorant money-grab use of them, and such a waste.

    3. I refuse to believe that Criag simply just wants out. His paycheck has doubled with every film, he was willing to sign a contract as early as 2012 to continue the role, he's the most successful Bond of all time now that Skyfall hit a billion, and he genuinely seems to enjoy his creative input on such a huge franchise. I can't accept what there is absolutely no evidence for.

    4. Sony has absolutely nothing to do with Bond 25. Craig isn't contracted with them as an actor. Who distributes his Bond films does not effect him in any way in the creator role for the franchise. @dmwalker already said it is not his knee injury, and that leaves me with nothing else to suggest he is leaving. Even the producers claim every chance they get that they want him for as many Bond films as possible.

    What I think is happening is this - Since the Sony email hack, it has been apparent that they is some level of discussion as to who will replace Craig - the emails detailed Idris Elba. Now a betting odds agency has adjusted its list of replacements to better favor of Damien Lewis. They base their reasoning on his career currently, as well as shifts in audience favorites and rumors in the industry. I think whoever @dmwalker contacted truly believes this will be Craig's last, but I think the original source is a rumor. The whole "word of mouth" game in full effect. One person says Lewis would make a good Bond, so someone assumes he is considered to be Bond and talks about it, and that person assumes they are looking to replace Craig so they share that, and that person reasons that Craig is out and they share that.

    Right now there is no evidence to suggest anything about Craig leaving.

    So my vote is:
    0 For / 1 Against
  • Posts: 9,806
    It won't happen largely due to

    It doesn't make sense financially, Craig's run has been well received even Quantum of Solace did well financially

    It doesn't make sense physically Craig looks good and as long as he stays in shape could be bond for another decade if he really wanted too

    It doesn't make sense artistically go to the leaks thread for my reasoning here but yeah

    Plus he is contracted to bond 25

    So against this rumor
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited June 2015 Posts: 4,554
    Let's clear something up: DC is NOT contracted to do Bond 25. He has an open contract with EON and can walk away after SP if he so chooses.

    DC will do Bond 25 (and maybe 26) for two reasons and two reasons only: 1. The money, especially if SP is as big an int'l hit as SF; and/or 2. He feels healthy enough to do so.

    DC respects this role too much to "half ass" it. If he can't play the part as physically as he wants, he won't do it. Makes no difference that EON could line up as many stunt doubles as necessary. And forget the comparisons to Tom Cruise; DC is NOT Tom Cruise, who has kept himself in great shape for almost 30 years. DC has not and has been known to like his smokes and brews too much. Can't blame him for being human.

    That said, I can't buy the Damian Lewis rumors. I have to think EON will go younger with the next Bond, even though I always thought some of the CR posters made DC look like Lewis:

    latest?cb=20120329172248

    sm_damien2_1872981c.jpg

    Ultimately, I am against the rumor. I think DC gets offered more money than he can imagine to do Bond 25.

  • Posts: 6,601
    Hm, the source of the source says

    1) something happened DURING the film, that made the return impossible
    2) it was agreed upon before filming, so Mendes returned.

    So a contradiction right at the start.

    Whatever happens, and I believe a lot will depend on the reception of this film, its not decided yet. 70/30 on him.returning from me.

    By all means, how on earth can anybody even want this ginger as Bond, plus he is way too old. Really... [-(
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    We have new sou franchises popping up; Kingsman, November man, UNCLE and with Cruise continuing his MI movies and with Damon coming back as Bourne next year, EoN losing Craig after what is said to be and is genuinely looking like one if the best Bond movies ever is beyond madness. Craig is in great shape, looks good and has at tge very least 2 more Bond films in him. I don't buy any if this talk about SP being his last at all. A Bond movie is mere months away we're bound to get all sorts of ridiculous rumours surfacing as has always been the case.

    Frankly, I'm partly glad the the issues with the leaks happened because ultimately it should serve as a lesson to Eon regarding their overseeing of the preproduction stages. I'm still shocked at how Logan was left unattended for so long only for him to submit a garbage script which in turn compromises time. Craig's casting was a massive coup but his era thus far, although on tge whole great, it's just a shame so much time has been lost. Anyway, with the characters involved in SP and how things play out, Craig will be back for Bond 25 at the very least. That I am certain of 100%.
  • Posts: 14,890
    That is a stupid rumour. Not nearly as stupid as the casting of Idris Elba, but still.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Nothing is certain folks, & anything is possible. Having said that, it's quite probable that DC is back for B25, most likely as a swansong.
  • Posts: 6,601
    Plus our source here, of course, didnt ask the talkative guy, WHAT the happening was. Why would he? Haha. Telling already so much, he would have said that, too. I dont believe this source at all. Sorry ...plus new guys popping up with big secrets....dont we just love it? :O)
  • Posts: 6,601
    Plus, sorry, but the illogic/ dislogic? f all this is so obvious. A guy is at a meetingvabout something and another guy has just nithing better to do then bla out the big "secretive" news. So, how big is the chance, the world hasnt heard of it. Again, not very likely, if the people on the know talk so openly about it.

  • Posts: 686
    I would like to see him go, but not replaced by Lewis.
  • Posts: 6,601
    Plus, Jestbrook, is it really helpful to create ANother thread about it? I dont think so.
  • Posts: 686
    I want to see Cavill or Fassbender.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I like Lewis as an actor, he was very good in Wolf Hall but as Bond? Nah!

    He just is too well known, no he's not an A lister but Homeland was pretty high profile and I just don't see it. Like I don't see most of the options the bookies are saying, Hardy & Fassbender are just far too established.

    As for SPECTRE being Craig's last? I hope not but if the man himself has had enough I'd rather he played the role when he's 100%, we don't want another disinterested actor playing Bond again.

  • RC7RC7
    edited June 2015 Posts: 10,512
    Who gives a fuck? I'll be watching SP and hoping it's a great Bond film. Couldn't give a shit about anything else. Bonds have come and gone and will continue to do so.
  • Posts: 14,890
    Perdogg wrote: »
    I want to see Cavill or Fassbender.

    Not going to happen for either of them.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Perdogg wrote: »
    I want to see Cavill or Fassbender.

    Lol you're dreaming, mate.

  • Posts: 709
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Perdogg wrote: »
    I want to see Cavill or Fassbender.

    Not going to happen for either of them.

    We really need to slam the final nail in the coffin of the idea of Henry Cavill playing Bond. It's over, done, not happening. He's already established in the public eye as Superman and apparently is booked for at least 3 more movies as that character. That alone clinches it. EON are not going to share their Bond with a competing blockbuster series. They want their actor to be 100% identified as Bond, James Bond wherever he goes and for Bond to be the absolute top priority for their actor. That's something that is now impossible with Henry Cavill. (That's why I think its extremely likely that the next 007 will have had no or very few significant movie roles, or someone who has just had one indie attention-grabbing role like DC with Layer Cake).

    The Man from UNCLE is the only time you'll ever see Henry play an Ian Fleming created spy.
  • Posts: 1,548
    If Damian Lewis is cast as 007 I will end my interest in the franchise. I actually hope there's a 5-6 year wait till the next movie after DC's las ie the gap between Dalton and Brosnan to give the next fella a chance to establish himself becasue of the huge footsteps he'd be following in.
  • Posts: 150
    Personally, I dont even understand why these pseudo-news, created and bloated by the media so they can have something to run on, are taken seriously by a fan community that knows its facts for what they are. Craig is signed for one more film, has NEVER IN ONE SINGLE PHRASE stated that he wants to leave the part, and the producers absolutely love him. So, he's going to be around for at least one more film- God willing for a couple more after that. By mathematical precision, the next Bond will have his birth year in the late 80s.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    nikos78 wrote: »
    Personally, I dont even understand why these pseudo-news, created and bloated by the media so they can have something to run on, are taken seriously by a fan community that knows its facts for what they are. Craig is signed for one more film, has NEVER IN ONE SINGLE PHRASE stated that he wants to leave the part, and the producers absolutely love him. So, he's going to be around for at least one more film- God willing for a couple more after that. By mathematical precision, the next Bond will have his birth year in the late 80s.

    While I hope you're right, we really don't know anything for sure.

    Lewis came out of nowhere as a candidate, and that is interesting. He's a compelling actor, and I find him more plausible than a lot of the other characters that have been floated about.

    DC may want to move on (he hasn't made a film since SF). If he does, he's certainly not going to broadcast it ahead of SP's release. That would be unprofessional, and he's nothing if not a consummate professional.

    There are changes coming in terms of Bond distribution post-SP, and that can potentially shake up a lot of things.

    So again, I'd like to agree with you and actually think you might be right, but I'm open to possibilities that we both could be wrong.
  • Posts: 150
    @bondjames all grounded and valid arguments, which I absolutely support and I would rather discuss, instead of the fact that someone just threw in another of a million names as a Bond candidate. despite your arguments however, the producers' belief in Craig is unparalleled (Connery was dismissed at first chance on money issues and brought back briefly exactly for the same reason, Cubby stuck with Moore as a safe bet, Brosnan was thrown out either for money or for change of direction or both). Craig was a risky bet that paid off way over expectations, he has unprecedented creative control on the films and, in my mind, the only thing that could throw him out in conjuction with the change of co-distributor, would be an underperformance os SP, which I highly doubt. I don't think the fact that he hasn't made any films since SF is a deterring factor, since almost all of his films outside Bond have flopped. Bond maintains his security and bankability as a star.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    That's very true, @nikos78, but it's possible that DC wants to move on. He was never set on this Bond thing anyway.

    He's a real actor, not a movie star. The only thing he's done in the last 3 years is a play on Broadway (in which he was brilliant by the way....I saw it).

    I think he took the role to do something meaningful with the character. Once he achieves that, I think he'll move on. Mendes could also have something to do with it (I have a strong feeling Craig will only do another one if Mendes is back). I don't think he'll want to make a standard Bond film (mission only). He wants depth. All 3 films so far have illustrated that and SP should be no different.

    The co-distribution thing is the final spanner in the works. If that gets complex, I can easily see DC walking. He doesn't need Bond because I don't think he gives two sh!+$ about money/fame quite frankly.

    Again, hopefully it's just rumour, which it probably is. I'm open to Lewis even though I'm sure that's just fanciful speculation. He is a good actor.
  • Posts: 5,745
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Plus, Jestbrook, is it really helpful to create ANother thread about it? I dont think so.

    @Germanlady

    The thread is an attempt to save the "Leaks" thread which has seen two pages already dedicated to this "source". Also it will cover future ridiculous arguments in an attempt to keep other discussion pure. You understand..
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 6,601
    Its strange, that no one is dismissing this guys source and post just on behalf on those obviously contradicting "facts" in it, that I wrote about.

    Oh, and I can add another:

    Mendes to DC: i love you, my friend and I know, you love the role, but if I come back, you need to quit after that.

    DC:Sure, whatever makes you happy. I can't live or breathe Bond without you anyway.

  • Posts: 6,601
    nikos78 wrote: »
    Personally, I dont even understand why these pseudo-news, created and bloated by the media so they can have something to run on, are taken seriously by a fan community that knows its facts for what they are. Craig is signed for one more film, has NEVER IN ONE SINGLE PHRASE stated that he wants to leave the part, and the producers absolutely love him. So, he's going to be around for at least one more film- God willing for a couple more after that. By mathematical precision, the next Bond will have his birth year in the late 80s.

    Thank you. Voice of reason, based on FACTS, we know.

  • Posts: 150
    bondjames wrote: »
    That's very true, @nikos78, but it's possible that DC wants to move on. He was never set on this Bond thing anyway.

    He's a real actor, not a movie star. The only thing he's done in the last 3 years is a play on Broadway (in which he was brilliant by the way....I saw it).

    I think he took the role to do something meaningful with the character. Once he achieves that, I think he'll move on. Mendes could also have something to do with it (I have a strong feeling Craig will only do another one if Mendes is back). I don't think he'll want to make a standard Bond film (mission only). He wants depth. All 3 films so far have illustrated that and SP should be no different.

    The co-distribution thing is the final spanner in the works. If that gets complex, I can easily see DC walking. He doesn't need Bond because I don't think he gives two sh!+$ about money/fame quite frankly.

    Again, hopefully it's just rumour, which it probably is. I'm open to Lewis even though I'm sure that's just fanciful speculation. He is a good actor.

    again, very well put. we'll just have to wait and see. (oh, and just for the record, I'm not a fan of the Lewis option and I don't really find it realistic at all.)
  • Posts: 4,619
    Will Craig quit the role after Spectre? Yes, I believe so. Will Lewis be the new Bond? Absolutely NOT. The guy is 44 already. There is NO WAY the producers would replace Craig with an actor only 3 years younger than him.
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 6,601
    RC7 wrote: »
    Who gives a fuck? I'll be watching SP and hoping it's a great Bond film. Couldn't give a shit about anything else. Bonds have come and gone and will continue to do so.

    Why so aggressive? What ticks your boxes so much?

    In the end though, its what I will be exactly after DC is done, too. I would just word it a bit more friendly. No need to get a fit over it. B-)
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited June 2015 Posts: 4,399
    TripAces wrote: »
    Let's clear something up: DC is NOT contracted to do Bond 25. He has an open contract with EON and can walk away after SP if he so chooses.

    @TripAces

    I am curious where you got this bit of info and how you're so certain it is accurate.... because it was made public that after QOS, Daniel Craig had signed on for 3 additional films - that being Bond 23(Skyfall), Bond 24(Spectre), and Bond 25... now whether he has "out clauses" in his contract is anyone's guess - i'm sure something of the sort is in there... but his current contract does indeed run through Bond 25.

    Craig's original contract was the standard 3 film deal (the same Pierce got) which would have came with the same per film agreements from then on out (just like Pierce did with DAD after TWINE)... once Craig signed his new contract, the old one became toilet paper essentially.


    btw, i am AGAINST the rumor - because all the rumor is based off of is fan/media speculation and conjecture.... Craig returns for Bond 25 - from then on out it's up in the air, but i'd even be willing to bet he comes back for a 6th, then hangs it up.. EON has their most successful Bond in franchise history, and there isn't another CR situation up on the horizon where they would want to reboot and start over (as everyone seems to think will happen when Craig quits).. EON will try and keep Craig around for as long as they possibly can.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Let's look at the actor's last films
    Connery was 41
    Lazenby 30
    Moore 58
    Dalton 43?
    Brosnan 49
    Craig 47 currently.

    I believe he's contracted for one more then it's open contract. Might be getting a bit older after Bond 25, at the rate the films are coming out these days

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