Music in SPECTRE

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython The Black Lodge
    Posts: 5,172
    I always hope the 007 theme would return, but if Barry fanboy David Arnold would never bring that back, I suspect no one ever will. Too bad, the return of SPECTRE might have been the right time to bring it back, as it was largely played in their films aside from MR.
  • Posts: 3,045
    I have listened to the soundtrack twice now, and wanted it be good. But here's my verdict:

    The SP soundtrack is not on par with the soundtrack for SF, which I didn't really like. But it did have some interesting cues and a motif (the track 'Mother') which could be heard several times throughout SF.

    SP is mostly generic filler stuff and recycled cues from SF. Take the track 'Tempus Fugit': that's largely 'Welcome to Scotland'. Also 'Backfire'. That's the 'Grand Bazaar'.

    Unlike the SF soundtrack, variations of the Bond theme can be heard several times, though, which is probably a good thing, since it's the only motif there. The JB theme can be heard in 'Los Muertos Vivos Estan', 'The Eternal City', 'Detonation' and 'Westminster Bridge' (TB-variation).

    My favorite part of the soundtrack is probably the middle part of 'Crows Klinik', and thats not saying much, since it only lasts 20 seconds.

    Very disappointing OST from Thomas Newman.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,591
    I'm on my third listen now, and it is pretty disappointing. But I think it might be a grower. The opening track is super, "Westminster Bridge" is great, and so is the instrumental of the title track.

    There is some good stuff there but it's laid out pretty badly. The album needed a serious trimming to suit Newman's style. It feels extremely long.

    Hmmm. Lets see how it works in the film.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,099
    I caved and listened to it. First impressions. First half of the soundtrack is good. After Hinx it's just boring dull ambient stealth tracks. I'm sad that there is very very little use of the Bond theme. It's barely there which is really disappointing. It should have been back in full use at least twice. I liked it better thank Skyfall's score but not by much. A big helping of the James Bond theme would have been nice. But I guess using is costs too much money. 8-|
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    edited October 2015 Posts: 1,725
    I'm not surprised in the least. I admire the enthusiasm of all the optimists here who's cheery outlook kept telling me to 'give Newman the benefit of the doubt', and 'it was only his 1st attempt' etc., but I had no faith whatsoever in this score.

    EoN have not given a monkey's about Bond soundtracks since the 80's, so why should we suddenly get a proper one now?

    Soundtracks don't sell a movie, and anything that doesn't sell is of no interest to Babs & co. She is unfit to be calling creative shots, as I have stated many a time.
  • SkyfallCraigSkyfallCraig Rome, Italy
    Posts: 630
    Barely there? :-O
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython The Black Lodge
    Posts: 5,172
    This is the most the Bond theme has ever been used since DAD. I think it's the right amount, not overused like the Beosnan era Arnold scores.
  • Posts: 501
    I insist that one should watch the movie and rate the score IN the movie. I haven't listened it, and I don't want to do it until I watch the movie the 6th of November.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,591
    0iker0 wrote: »
    I insist that one should watch the movie and rate the score IN the movie. I haven't listened it, and I don't want to do it until I watch the movie the 6th of November.

    The flipside to that is that it should work outside the film, too.

    Great film composers paint the film with their music so that it tells the story without having to watch the film. Outside of the Mexico stuff, which is absolutely brilliant, Newman hasn't done that.


  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,725
    0iker0 wrote: »
    I insist that one should watch the movie and rate the score IN the movie. I haven't listened it, and I don't want to do it until I watch the movie the 6th of November.

    The flipside to that is that it should work outside the film, too.

    Great film composers paint the film with their music so that it tells the story without having to watch the film. Outside of the Mexico stuff, which is absolutely brilliant, Newman hasn't done that.

    That's because he just isn't bothered.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 498
    not saying its great but I think it sounds way more Bondish than Skyfall
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython The Black Lodge
    Posts: 5,172
    Skyfail wrote: »
    not saying its great but I think it sounds way more Bondish than Skyfall
    That's because it is. He brings more of the Bond sound, he's just not a slave to it.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,591
    AceHole wrote: »
    0iker0 wrote: »
    I insist that one should watch the movie and rate the score IN the movie. I haven't listened it, and I don't want to do it until I watch the movie the 6th of November.

    The flipside to that is that it should work outside the film, too.

    Great film composers paint the film with their music so that it tells the story without having to watch the film. Outside of the Mexico stuff, which is absolutely brilliant, Newman hasn't done that.

    That's because he just isn't bothered.

    Maybe, although I can hear him trying (in subtle ways) to move away from his own style and towards something more classic.

    I wonder what direction he was told to go for by Babs and by Mendes.

    Or maybe he's simply just not the right fit.
  • Posts: 498
    Skyfail wrote: »
    not saying its great but I think it sounds way more Bondish than Skyfall
    That's because it is. He brings more of the Bond sound, he's just not a slave to it.

    Yup ,
    I like it more than the SF's soundtrack, SF was too mellow .
    This sounds way more Bond than Sf's
  • Posts: 501
    0iker0 wrote: »
    I insist that one should watch the movie and rate the score IN the movie. I haven't listened it, and I don't want to do it until I watch the movie the 6th of November.

    The flipside to that is that it should work outside the film, too.

    Great film composers paint the film with their music so that it tells the story without having to watch the film. Outside of the Mexico stuff, which is absolutely brilliant, Newman hasn't done that.


    Not always. Have you listened to The Social Network's brilliant score when not watching the movie? For me, only Hand Covers Bruise works. The rest, outside the film environment is quite dull and resembles just pure noise. However, they work brilliantly well in the picture and I believe it's a great score.

    Ambiental scores, the type Cliff Martinez does for example, are not always wonderful when taken out of the film. The counterpart is they must work to perfection in their environment to be considered good in any way.


  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    0iker0 wrote: »
    Not always. Have you listened to The Social Network's brilliant score when not watching the movie? For me, only Hand Covers Bruise works. The rest, outside the film environment is quite dull and resembles just pure noise. However, they work brilliantly well in the picture and I believe it's a great score.

    Exactly.

    Very good example with the Social Network as well.

    Precisely right.

    The ghost of Barry, unfortunately but understandably, casts a long shadow.

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,591
    0iker0 wrote: »
    0iker0 wrote: »
    I insist that one should watch the movie and rate the score IN the movie. I haven't listened it, and I don't want to do it until I watch the movie the 6th of November.

    The flipside to that is that it should work outside the film, too.

    Great film composers paint the film with their music so that it tells the story without having to watch the film. Outside of the Mexico stuff, which is absolutely brilliant, Newman hasn't done that.


    Not always. Have you listened to The Social Network's brilliant score when not watching the movie? For me, only Hand Covers Bruise works. The rest, outside the film environment is quite dull and resembles just pure noise. However, they work brilliantly well in the picture and I believe it's a great score.

    Ambiental scores, the type Cliff Martinez does for example, are not always wonderful when taken out of the film. The counterpart is they must work to perfection in their environment to be considered good in any way.



    Coincidentally two scores and three musicians that I don't like very much for the reasons outlined above. Different strokes, I guess!
  • Posts: 501
    0iker0 wrote: »
    0iker0 wrote: »
    I insist that one should watch the movie and rate the score IN the movie. I haven't listened it, and I don't want to do it until I watch the movie the 6th of November.

    The flipside to that is that it should work outside the film, too.

    Great film composers paint the film with their music so that it tells the story without having to watch the film. Outside of the Mexico stuff, which is absolutely brilliant, Newman hasn't done that.


    Not always. Have you listened to The Social Network's brilliant score when not watching the movie? For me, only Hand Covers Bruise works. The rest, outside the film environment is quite dull and resembles just pure noise. However, they work brilliantly well in the picture and I believe it's a great score.

    Ambiental scores, the type Cliff Martinez does for example, are not always wonderful when taken out of the film. The counterpart is they must work to perfection in their environment to be considered good in any way.



    Coincidentally two scores and three musicians that I don't like very much for the reasons outlined above. Different strokes, I guess!

    Well, I love Barry, he's my favorite composer. I suppose you love Barry as well. Have you heard 4 in the morning? Do you know Jerry Goldsmith? Have you heard Planet of the Apes? Bernard Herrmann? The Day The Earth Stood Still? None of these scores work, at least for me, outside the film. They do, however, in their respective films. And so, I believe them to be great scores. The main purpose a score should have is to help the movie it is in. Its hearing outside this environment should be considered as secondary, and could, and sometimes should, be sacrificed if the film would benefit from having an ambiental score.



  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2015 Posts: 4,399
    .
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,591
    0iker0 wrote: »
    0iker0 wrote: »
    0iker0 wrote: »
    I insist that one should watch the movie and rate the score IN the movie. I haven't listened it, and I don't want to do it until I watch the movie the 6th of November.

    The flipside to that is that it should work outside the film, too.

    Great film composers paint the film with their music so that it tells the story without having to watch the film. Outside of the Mexico stuff, which is absolutely brilliant, Newman hasn't done that.


    Not always. Have you listened to The Social Network's brilliant score when not watching the movie? For me, only Hand Covers Bruise works. The rest, outside the film environment is quite dull and resembles just pure noise. However, they work brilliantly well in the picture and I believe it's a great score.

    Ambiental scores, the type Cliff Martinez does for example, are not always wonderful when taken out of the film. The counterpart is they must work to perfection in their environment to be considered good in any way.



    Coincidentally two scores and three musicians that I don't like very much for the reasons outlined above. Different strokes, I guess!

    Well, I love Barry, he's my favorite composer. I suppose you love Barry as well. Have you heard 4 in the morning? Do you know Jerry Goldsmith? Have you heard Planet of the Apes? Bernard Herrmann? The Day The Earth Stood Still? None of these scores work, at least for me, outside the film. They do, however, in their respective films. And so, I believe them to be great scores. The main purpose a score should have is to help the movie it is in. Its hearing outside this environment should be considered as secondary, and could, and sometimes should, be sacrificed if the film would benefit from having an ambiental score.




    That I think is where we differ. Herrmann especially always worked outside of the film. The only Goldsmith score that focuses on ambience that works for me is Alien. Planet of the Apes never resonated with me.

    And it still doesn't change the fact that something like Bond never once needed a focus on ambient music - outside of the stalking cues Barry gave us in FRWL.

    A truly great score should be able to do both justice to the film and the two feet it stands on.

    If you want a prime example of something that strives to enhance the ambient mood and still stands on its own - see Shire's work in The Conversation.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    While searching for Newman's SP score, I came across this fan made score by a Swedish gentleman named Otto Nilsson (a Bond fan).

    I haven't listened to it all, but what I've heard is absolutely brilliant. He even weaves in a version of the 007 theme.

    EON should hire this chap (it will probably cost less too....heck he may do it for free). This is as close to Barry as I've heard, and very similar to Michael Giacchino's Incredible's score.



  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    The Spectre score is basically just:

    Ambient noise

    The Skyfall score also never bothered me much in the movie, it's kind of just there and could very well be replaced by any other action soundtrack.

    The same will apply to the new score I guess.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    HASEROT wrote: »
    Kite In A Hurricane
    I wasn’t going to comment on it initially, as I felt like it’s more of Newman’s uninspired ambient sounds that mistakenly gets confused as music... but.... there is a familiar piano cue towards the end that caught my attention... it took me a little bit to figure out where i had heard it before, but i think i zeroed in on it... is it not the same arrangements from the “Gumbold’s Safe” track in OHMSS? - if not, it’s pretty darn close to it - or something else from that score... maybe the music for when Bond’s being led to meet with Blofeld?... Someone either back me up on this, or help me out. lol.

    Well, in the teaser trailer
    the line "You're a kite dancing in a hurricane" is spoken by Mr. White.
  • I hate to go on a negative rant, but I can’t help myself. I read the leaked script (I know, bad boy) and there was one moment during the Alpine chase scene that absolutely begged – no, SCREAMED OUT – for the James Bond theme to be used properly. Not a little cue in the background, but actually blared…you know, like you’re actually watching a James Bond movie. So the first thing I did this morning was bring up the track “Snow Plane,” and…nothing. I just don’t understand it. It seems like the worst, most condescending sort of stinginess to have at your disposal the world’s greatest theme song and then never use it. Does Newman not know he’s scoring a James Bond movie? I can’t tell the difference between this track and something used during, say, the next xXx sequel.

    I’m so disgusted right now. I love Mendes, but I truly hope he doesn’t return for Bond 25 for the sole reason that he won’t be bringing Newman back with him. I have a feeling this will be the first Bond soundtrack I won’t buy.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Listen to Otto Nilsson's score which I posted above. It will relieve any disgust one has for the SP score. Trust me.
  • Posts: 3,045
    I love Mendes, but I truly hope he doesn’t return for Bond 25 for the sole reason that he won’t be bringing Newman back with him. I have a feeling this will be the first Bond soundtrack I won’t buy.
    +1
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    For me so far, the highlights are as follows (in no particular order):

    1. Westminster Bridge - love it. It' recycled SF but with necessary Bondian bombast thrown in. As if Newman wanted to improve a previous track which he felt was unfinished. This is what I wanted more of. This, to me, is Newman meets Bond

    2. Donna Lucia - magnificent but way, way too short

    3. Los Muertos Vivos Estan - excellent use of the Bond theme woven in while still sounding fresh imho

    4. Safe House - Superb ending - segues into Bond theme brilliantly. Again, an example of what Newman should have done more of (like Westminister Bridge or Los Muertos Vivos Estan), because he is pretty good at it when he tries to do 'Bond'

    5. Backfire - it has grown on me with repeated listens and I'm sure will work well with the accompanying scene

    6. Hinx - chilling

    7. Vauxhall Bridge - suspenseful, again with subtle James Bond cues at the end
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I hate to go on a negative rant, but I can’t help myself. I read the leaked script (I know, bad boy) and there was one moment during the Alpine chase scene that absolutely begged – no, SCREAMED OUT – for the James Bond theme to be used properly. Not a little cue in the background, but actually blared…you know, like you’re actually watching a James Bond movie. So the first thing I did this morning was bring up the track “Snow Plane,” and…nothing. I just don’t understand it. It seems like the worst, most condescending sort of stinginess to have at your disposal the world’s greatest theme song and then never use it. Does Newman not know he’s scoring a James Bond movie? I can’t tell the difference between this track and something used during, say, the next xXx sequel.

    I’m so disgusted right now. I love Mendes, but I truly hope he doesn’t return for Bond 25 for the sole reason that he won’t be bringing Newman back with him. I have a feeling this will be the first Bond soundtrack I won’t buy.

    So you read illegally obtained material and now you're throwing your toys out of the pram because the score doesn't match your expectations for a specific scene? In this instance Newman did nothing wrong, you ruined it for yourself.
  • SatoriousSatorious Brushing up on a little Danish
    Posts: 211
    Given this a quick listen. Initial impressions: a handful of nice bits, but it's clear to me Newman is much better at the introspective stuff and doesn't get the bold and brash side to these films. I rather like two of the themes he uses in the end track (I believe they are in used in Madeleine and Silver Wraith tracks) - but there is too much Skyfall recycling going on here!
  • @RC7: You are correct that I overreacted, and you're also correct that I made a fatal mistake that is always dangerous: I judged something for what it isn't rather than for what it is.

    I have since listened to the entire soundtrack with a more open mind, and parts of it are quite good. However, I do stand by my initial opinion that none of it stands out to me as "Bondian." All of the action/adventure cues, at least, still strike me as generic action movie music. Some of the slower sections are lovely, though.

    Thanks for calling me out and pointing out what a spoiled child I was being :)
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