No Time To Die: Production Diary

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Comments

  • JeffreyJeffrey The Netherlands
    edited August 2018 Posts: 308
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I applaud Boyle for sticking to his PPK and for ignoring Babs her idiotic reasoning. Sorry, but killing off Bond serves no purpose other than being egotistical. In my opinion she's been way over her head for years now and this to me is the final nail in the coffin. Babs and Craig both have been banging on about and wishing for a gay/female/black Bond and this way it could happen, by killing off the 'OG' Bond. Am I the only one to see this? Someone else needs to take over, a visionary, an easy example would be Nolan who could revamp the spirit of Bond, of Fleming. Whether it would take place in the 60s or present, but with a new actor as well. Bond needs change, not death.

    You are aware that Fleming himself had considered killing Bond, aren't you?

    You are aware that all those accusations towards Barbara Broccoli are lifted from tabloid journalism at best, aren't you?

    Don't write off 'tabloid' journalism too fast, as it makes sense in the scheme of things and the 'revelation' is quite detailed. Some points I made about them wanting to change into a gay/female/black Bond are facts, mind you. I edited my post to 'IF true'.

    News to me! Care to share links?

    "I think the role could easily be played by a black actor, because the character created by Ian Fleming in the Fifties has undergone a great deal of evolution and continues to be updated," Craig told the Agi news agency.

    "She (Broccoli) didn't go as far as to say that the next 007 will definitively be non-white and/or a woman, but she is very much open to it, saying "anything is possible."

    "These films tend to reflect the times so we always try to push the envelope a little bit. Anything is possible. Right now it's Daniel Craig, and I'm very happy with Daniel Craig, but who knows what the future will bring?"

    "Craig himself weighed in on the idea of a gay Bond three years ago after a torture scene in 2012’s Skyfall sparked speculation that his take on 007 might be bisexual. "

    It's no coincidence that Craig's top comments came in an interview which talked about Obama winning the presidency. Pure politics, just like his answer to the Bond question.

    That means, of course, that people would have to not take his comments at face value. Which people continuously prove to be incapable of.

    The same goes for the Bond being bi-sexual. He's not. That scene was just pure mind-games. Again, unless you just take it at face value.

    There's no facts there, just interpretation of politically correct answers. Even if Daniel Craig wasn't Bond - if it were some other white man - the answers would still be the same. Because it'd be rude to say otherwise.

    If that's true then it should stop, as it makes a mockery of Bond(!) and Fleming in the first place. Indeed the media have a big role in this as well. Fleming was the man who gave us Bond, if you extrapolate that he's God within that universe and his vision was clear and Bond his heritage (along with countless details) are clear as crystal, too. I detest political correctness and some things shouldn't be meddled with, like frontrunner Babs potentially is able to do. We as Bond fans/followers/adepts are the ones who keep things in check and that I will do until the day they carry me to the grave.

    That's all well and good but unfortunately not realistic in the world we live in right now. They have to play the game. The negative reprecussions that would come from saying "no" to these things would be far too great.

    Yes, Fleming would disapprove of the very notion of any of that. But Fleming isn't around anymore. That's not to say they should abandon him, au contraire. I don't want any of those things listed above for James Bond, ever.

    But if the price of continuing to make Bond films is to play political correctness media-print warfare games, then that's the price we pay. I have many issues with Eon, but that most certainly isn't one of them.

    That sounds like a slippery slope. Where will it end?
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited August 2018 Posts: 3,157
    TR007 wrote: »
    Don t forget, they originally wanted to end QOS with Bond seemingly killed by Mr White.

    First I heard of this. Where did you hear that?

    An alternative ending was shot. It is about a minute long and takes place after the ending we got. Bond meets Mr White who shoots him. Kind of like the end of FRWL, the novel. It was cut because the film makers where unsure if they wanted to go on with their plans for the third Craig film to be the end of a trilogy.

    I never heard of this. The James Bond Archives or Some Kind of Hero would mention such a thing. The only alternative ending they shot had Bond kill Mr. White and interrogate Guy Haines.

    Also, I can't see EON killing off Bond after he made only two movies (and I'm pretty sure Craig was contracted for a third film).

    RE: Bond was hinted as bisexual in Skyfall

    No, he wan't. He was mocking Silva and possibly reference the torture scene from Casino Royale. Period. Enough with BS. Don't watch movies if you're too stupid to figure out what's going on the screen.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe "I need a year off" Craig
    Posts: 7,305
    I feel like the film will either go ahead as planned, with a last minute Mendes or Demange taking over directorial duties, or the thing will fall apart and Bond will go into hibernation while Craig leaves and EON sells up.
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 15,566
    Isn't Mendes busy with another project?
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 940
    Walecs wrote: »
    TR007 wrote: »
    Don t forget, they originally wanted to end QOS with Bond seemingly killed by Mr White.

    First I heard of this. Where did you hear that?

    An alternative ending was shot. It is about a minute long and takes place after the ending we got. Bond meets Mr White who shoots him. Kind of like the end of FRWL, the novel. It was cut because the film makers where unsure if they wanted to go on with their plans for the third Craig film to be the end of a trilogy.

    I never heard of this. The James Bond Archives or Some Kind of Hero would mention such a thing. The only alternative ending they shot had Bond kill Mr. White and interrogate Guy Haines.

    Also, I can't see EON killing off Bond after he made only two movies (and I'm pretty sure Craig was contracted for a third film).

    RE: Bond was hinted as bisexual in Skyfall

    No, he wan't. He was mocking Silva and possibly reference the torture scene from Casino Royale. Period. Enough with BS. Don't watch movies if you're too stupid to figure out what's going on the screen.

    Making it personal are we? Flagged
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,473
    Jeffrey wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I applaud Boyle for sticking to his PPK and for ignoring Babs her idiotic reasoning. Sorry, but killing off Bond serves no purpose other than being egotistical. In my opinion she's been way over her head for years now and this to me is the final nail in the coffin. Babs and Craig both have been banging on about and wishing for a gay/female/black Bond and this way it could happen, by killing off the 'OG' Bond. Am I the only one to see this? Someone else needs to take over, a visionary, an easy example would be Nolan who could revamp the spirit of Bond, of Fleming. Whether it would take place in the 60s or present, but with a new actor as well. Bond needs change, not death.

    You are aware that Fleming himself had considered killing Bond, aren't you?

    You are aware that all those accusations towards Barbara Broccoli are lifted from tabloid journalism at best, aren't you?

    Don't write off 'tabloid' journalism too fast, as it makes sense in the scheme of things and the 'revelation' is quite detailed. Some points I made about them wanting to change into a gay/female/black Bond are facts, mind you. I edited my post to 'IF true'.

    News to me! Care to share links?

    "I think the role could easily be played by a black actor, because the character created by Ian Fleming in the Fifties has undergone a great deal of evolution and continues to be updated," Craig told the Agi news agency.

    "She (Broccoli) didn't go as far as to say that the next 007 will definitively be non-white and/or a woman, but she is very much open to it, saying "anything is possible."

    "These films tend to reflect the times so we always try to push the envelope a little bit. Anything is possible. Right now it's Daniel Craig, and I'm very happy with Daniel Craig, but who knows what the future will bring?"

    "Craig himself weighed in on the idea of a gay Bond three years ago after a torture scene in 2012’s Skyfall sparked speculation that his take on 007 might be bisexual. "

    It's no coincidence that Craig's top comments came in an interview which talked about Obama winning the presidency. Pure politics, just like his answer to the Bond question.

    That means, of course, that people would have to not take his comments at face value. Which people continuously prove to be incapable of.

    The same goes for the Bond being bi-sexual. He's not. That scene was just pure mind-games. Again, unless you just take it at face value.

    There's no facts there, just interpretation of politically correct answers. Even if Daniel Craig wasn't Bond - if it were some other white man - the answers would still be the same. Because it'd be rude to say otherwise.

    If that's true then it should stop, as it makes a mockery of Bond(!) and Fleming in the first place. Indeed the media have a big role in this as well. Fleming was the man who gave us Bond, if you extrapolate that he's God within that universe and his vision was clear and Bond his heritage (along with countless details) are clear as crystal, too. I detest political correctness and some things shouldn't be meddled with, like frontrunner Babs potentially is able to do. We as Bond fans/followers/adepts are the ones who keep things in check and that I will do until the day they carry me to the grave.

    That's all well and good but unfortunately not realistic in the world we live in right now. They have to play the game. The negative reprecussions that would come from saying "no" to these things would be far too great.

    Yes, Fleming would disapprove of the very notion of any of that. But Fleming isn't around anymore. That's not to say they should abandon him, au contraire. I don't want any of those things listed above for James Bond, ever.

    But if the price of continuing to make Bond films is to play political correctness media-print warfare games, then that's the price we pay. I have many issues with Eon, but that most certainly isn't one of them.

    That sounds like a slippery slope. Where will it end?

    What about it is a slippery slope? To me, the real slippery slope would be actually implementing the changes suggested in the media.

    It doesn't end because it's just politeness. Nothing more to it.
  • Posts: 5,673
    This thread is a true yarn by now ;)

    Do you think there's someone at EON reading all of this? At this point I don't know who's making the fool out of themselves, them or us. It's all very foolish. But then again, all people are.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe "I need a year off" Craig
    Posts: 7,305
    Isn't Mendes busy with another project?

    I just said Mendes as an example. It could be Demange or one of the others. Point is, either someone valiantly swoops in and saves the film as it is, or the whole thing goes **** up.
  • Posts: 4,347
    Bond being killed is a pretty great idea in my opinion.

    Remember Fleming did something similar twice! Bond 'dies' in the FRWL and YOLT novels. When he wrote both those novels, Fleming intended to stop writing the novels but he was tempted back due to popular demand and money.

    FRWL: Later, in Paris, after successfully delivering Romanova and the booby-trapped Spektor to his superiors, Bond meets Rosa Klebb. She is captured but manages to kick Bond with a poisoned blade concealed in her shoe; the story ends with Bond fighting for breath and falling to the floor.

    YOLT:Bond eventually kills Blofeld by strangling him with his bare hands in a fit of violent rage, then blows up the castle. Upon escaping, he suffers a head injury, leaving him an amnesiac living as a Japanese fisherman with Kissy, while the rest of the world believes him dead; his obituary appears in the newspapers.

    The real question is how they execute this in the final film.

    It could got for Dark Knight rises cop-out:

    TheDarkKnightRisesEnding.jpg

    ...or go full Logan:

    Death-of-Wolverine-in-Logan-movie.jpg
  • Posts: 15,566
    Isn't Mendes busy with another project?

    I just said Mendes as an example. It could be Demange or one of the others. Point is, either someone valiantly swoops in and saves the film as it is, or the whole thing goes **** up.

    Time will tell. Not writing this film off just yet. Maybe they'll get the perfect no-nonsense action director on board, whoever that may be.
  • JeffreyJeffrey The Netherlands
    edited August 2018 Posts: 308
    Jeffrey wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I applaud Boyle for sticking to his PPK and for ignoring Babs her idiotic reasoning. Sorry, but killing off Bond serves no purpose other than being egotistical. In my opinion she's been way over her head for years now and this to me is the final nail in the coffin. Babs and Craig both have been banging on about and wishing for a gay/female/black Bond and this way it could happen, by killing off the 'OG' Bond. Am I the only one to see this? Someone else needs to take over, a visionary, an easy example would be Nolan who could revamp the spirit of Bond, of Fleming. Whether it would take place in the 60s or present, but with a new actor as well. Bond needs change, not death.

    You are aware that Fleming himself had considered killing Bond, aren't you?

    You are aware that all those accusations towards Barbara Broccoli are lifted from tabloid journalism at best, aren't you?

    Don't write off 'tabloid' journalism too fast, as it makes sense in the scheme of things and the 'revelation' is quite detailed. Some points I made about them wanting to change into a gay/female/black Bond are facts, mind you. I edited my post to 'IF true'.

    News to me! Care to share links?

    "I think the role could easily be played by a black actor, because the character created by Ian Fleming in the Fifties has undergone a great deal of evolution and continues to be updated," Craig told the Agi news agency.

    "She (Broccoli) didn't go as far as to say that the next 007 will definitively be non-white and/or a woman, but she is very much open to it, saying "anything is possible."

    "These films tend to reflect the times so we always try to push the envelope a little bit. Anything is possible. Right now it's Daniel Craig, and I'm very happy with Daniel Craig, but who knows what the future will bring?"

    "Craig himself weighed in on the idea of a gay Bond three years ago after a torture scene in 2012’s Skyfall sparked speculation that his take on 007 might be bisexual. "

    It's no coincidence that Craig's top comments came in an interview which talked about Obama winning the presidency. Pure politics, just like his answer to the Bond question.

    That means, of course, that people would have to not take his comments at face value. Which people continuously prove to be incapable of.

    The same goes for the Bond being bi-sexual. He's not. That scene was just pure mind-games. Again, unless you just take it at face value.

    There's no facts there, just interpretation of politically correct answers. Even if Daniel Craig wasn't Bond - if it were some other white man - the answers would still be the same. Because it'd be rude to say otherwise.

    If that's true then it should stop, as it makes a mockery of Bond(!) and Fleming in the first place. Indeed the media have a big role in this as well. Fleming was the man who gave us Bond, if you extrapolate that he's God within that universe and his vision was clear and Bond his heritage (along with countless details) are clear as crystal, too. I detest political correctness and some things shouldn't be meddled with, like frontrunner Babs potentially is able to do. We as Bond fans/followers/adepts are the ones who keep things in check and that I will do until the day they carry me to the grave.

    That's all well and good but unfortunately not realistic in the world we live in right now. They have to play the game. The negative reprecussions that would come from saying "no" to these things would be far too great.

    Yes, Fleming would disapprove of the very notion of any of that. But Fleming isn't around anymore. That's not to say they should abandon him, au contraire. I don't want any of those things listed above for James Bond, ever.

    But if the price of continuing to make Bond films is to play political correctness media-print warfare games, then that's the price we pay. I have many issues with Eon, but that most certainly isn't one of them.

    That sounds like a slippery slope. Where will it end?

    What about it is a slippery slope? To me, the real slippery slope would be actually implementing the changes suggested in the media.

    It doesn't end because it's just politeness. Nothing more to it.

    You're right of course, and it's way better then giving in to all those suggested changes. But... those suggestions will keep on coming and coming (with more and more pressure) if you don't push back at all I'm afraid.

    But the current strategy is probably for the best.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Isn't Mendes busy with another project?

    I just said Mendes as an example. It could be Demange or one of the others. Point is, either someone valiantly swoops in and saves the film as it is, or the whole thing goes **** up.

    Time will tell. Not writing this film off just yet. Maybe they'll get the perfect no-nonsense action director on board, whoever that may be.
    This is unlikely imho, due to their lead actor's preferences.
    Bond being killed is a pretty great idea in my opinion.

    Remember Fleming did something similar twice! Bond 'dies' in the FRWL and YOLT novels. When he wrote both those novels, Fleming intended to stop writing the novels but he was tempted back due to popular demand and money.

    FRWL: Later, in Paris, after successfully delivering Romanova and the booby-trapped Spektor to his superiors, Bond meets Rosa Klebb. She is captured but manages to kick Bond with a poisoned blade concealed in her shoe; the story ends with Bond fighting for breath and falling to the floor.

    YOLT:Bond eventually kills Blofeld by strangling him with his bare hands in a fit of violent rage, then blows up the castle. Upon escaping, he suffers a head injury, leaving him an amnesiac living as a Japanese fisherman with Kissy, while the rest of the world believes him dead; his obituary appears in the newspapers.

    The real question is how they execute this in the final film.

    It could got for Dark Knight rises cop-out:

    TheDarkKnightRisesEnding.jpg

    ...or go full Logan:

    Death-of-Wolverine-in-Logan-movie.jpg
    If they kill Bond, even temporarily, I may have to consider contemplating what Craig said he'd do during the press rounds for SP.

    This is really an idiotic idea imho, and played out. It's been rumoured to death (forgive the pun) in the media for over a year, so it won't be a surprise any more, but rather will be as tired as the Waltz isn't Blofeld shtick.
  • Posts: 15,566
    bondjames wrote: »
    Isn't Mendes busy with another project?

    I just said Mendes as an example. It could be Demange or one of the others. Point is, either someone valiantly swoops in and saves the film as it is, or the whole thing goes **** up.

    Time will tell. Not writing this film off just yet. Maybe they'll get the perfect no-nonsense action director on board, whoever that may be.
    This is unlikely imho, due to their lead actor's preferences.

    I know, but as long as a replacement isn't confirmed (officially) I'll live in the hope that an action director might be chosen. ;-)
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,748
    Maybe I’m just too negative, but I can’t shake this feeling that they’re not going to find a director. I just can’t foresee this film making the intended release date at all. Unless there is significant pressure coming from Universal/Annapuna, etc.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,547
    DonnyDB5 wrote: »
    Maybe I’m just too negative, but I can’t shake this feeling that they’re not going to find a director. I just can’t foresee this film making the intended release date at all. Unless there is significant pressure coming from Universal/Annapuna, etc.
    A delay of a few months might be what saves this film. I'd be surprised if the current release date is kept.

    @Thunderfinger Mr. White was never supposed to kill Bond in that alternate ending (Craig was indeed contracted for 3 films at the time). It was supposed to be the other way around, and the omission of that scene is what allowed White to return two films later.

    EON are never going to kill Bond off, even if they end up selling.
  • Posts: 12,609
    Bond being killed is a pretty great idea in my opinion.

    Remember Fleming did something similar twice! Bond 'dies' in the FRWL and YOLT novels. When he wrote both those novels, Fleming intended to stop writing the novels but he was tempted back due to popular demand and money.

    FRWL: Later, in Paris, after successfully delivering Romanova and the booby-trapped Spektor to his superiors, Bond meets Rosa Klebb. She is captured but manages to kick Bond with a poisoned blade concealed in her shoe; the story ends with Bond fighting for breath and falling to the floor.

    YOLT:Bond eventually kills Blofeld by strangling him with his bare hands in a fit of violent rage, then blows up the castle. Upon escaping, he suffers a head injury, leaving him an amnesiac living as a Japanese fisherman with Kissy, while the rest of the world believes him dead; his obituary appears in the newspapers.

    The real question is how they execute this in the final film.

    It could got for Dark Knight rises cop-out:

    TheDarkKnightRisesEnding.jpg

    ...or go full Logan:

    Death-of-Wolverine-in-Logan-movie.jpg

    One option is they don't follow other franchises and end the film (as well as Craig's era) with Bond at sea in an orange dingy. I'd take that over the death of Bond.

    Actually, if the films were on a consistent 2 year schedule, they could try an open ended cliffhanger finale. However, these days Eon seems to focus solely on one film at a time with no remote plans for a follow up until everyone is well rested (which takes years).

    I've never seen THE DARK KNIGHT RISES, but in that photo Bale's hair looks like Michael Landon's on HIGHWAY TO HEAVEN.
  • Posts: 5,673
    They kill Bond in the PTS only to backtrack for the entire film and show us he's not really dead. Something out of a sitcom but hey... FRWL shades and all that.

    Personally I think there's a ton of more ingenious new ideas to use. Brainwashed, amnesia, apparent death, all been use to death (pun intended). Time to use the little grey cells and think of something new.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Walecs wrote: »
    TR007 wrote: »
    Don t forget, they originally wanted to end QOS with Bond seemingly killed by Mr White.

    First I heard of this. Where did you hear that?

    An alternative ending was shot. It is about a minute long and takes place after the ending we got. Bond meets Mr White who shoots him. Kind of like the end of FRWL, the novel. It was cut because the film makers where unsure if they wanted to go on with their plans for the third Craig film to be the end of a trilogy.

    I never heard of this. The James Bond Archives or Some Kind of Hero would mention such a thing. The only alternative ending they shot had Bond kill Mr. White and interrogate Guy Haines.

    Also, I can't see EON killing off Bond after he made only two movies (and I'm pretty sure Craig was contracted for a third film).

    RE: Bond was hinted as bisexual in Skyfall

    No, he wan't. He was mocking Silva and possibly reference the torture scene from Casino Royale. Period. Enough with BS. Don't watch movies if you're too stupid to figure out what's going on the screen.

    Making it personal are we? Flagged

    I'm not making it personal at all, I don't know who you are. But if you believe that Bond is bisexual or you believe that he was hinted to be bisexual in any of the films, then yes, you are dumb.
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 940
    Walecs wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    TR007 wrote: »
    Don t forget, they originally wanted to end QOS with Bond seemingly killed by Mr White.

    First I heard of this. Where did you hear that?

    An alternative ending was shot. It is about a minute long and takes place after the ending we got. Bond meets Mr White who shoots him. Kind of like the end of FRWL, the novel. It was cut because the film makers where unsure if they wanted to go on with their plans for the third Craig film to be the end of a trilogy.

    I never heard of this. The James Bond Archives or Some Kind of Hero would mention such a thing. The only alternative ending they shot had Bond kill Mr. White and interrogate Guy Haines.

    Also, I can't see EON killing off Bond after he made only two movies (and I'm pretty sure Craig was contracted for a third film).

    RE: Bond was hinted as bisexual in Skyfall

    No, he wan't. He was mocking Silva and possibly reference the torture scene from Casino Royale. Period. Enough with BS. Don't watch movies if you're too stupid to figure out what's going on the screen.

    Making it personal are we? Flagged

    I'm not making it personal at all, I don't know who you are. But if you believe that Bond is bisexual or you believe that he was hinted to be bisexual in any of the films, then yes, you are dumb.

    Alright I'll bite again, even though your tone is not really worth my time. You made it personal as you directly addressed me, my username. So that's that. Regarding making Bond anything other than a white British male from his original descent, one could think that drastic changes could be made in the future, given the current climate (SJW is rampant, let alone the stuff that's happening in Hollywood to please 'everyone') and the things that have been said in interviews. Sometimes it seems people in general are making a mockery of Bond, whether a casual, a fan or a Bond frontrunner. Again, Fleming was very clear and to me personally that's holy. Personal remarks aren't appreciated and you zooming in on one point is beside the point. Bond shouldn't be made a mockery.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2018 Posts: 23,883
    The problem is box office. Many hold that up here as something to be proud of and to a degree it is. However, it's a double edged sword. The more successful financially one is, then the more compliant one must be with attitudes of the day, particularly in a passionate and emotional environment such as the one we find ourselves in where resentments rule the day.

    I've cited Red Sparrow a couple of times on this thread. That was one of my best theatre experiences this year, and it wasn't politically correct. Sure, it received a backlash, but I respect its artistic integrity.

    The desire and pressure to have a massive hit only increases when they stay away for so long. The least successful films in the Craig era are CR and QoS, but many fans see these as his best. They were turned out within 2 years of one another and in combination made more money than SF did.

    They may want to reconsider how they approach these things, and if some people need breaks, then maybe they should move on, whoever they may be (behind or in front of the camera).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 4,745
    Walecs wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    TR007 wrote: »
    Don t forget, they originally wanted to end QOS with Bond seemingly killed by Mr White.

    First I heard of this. Where did you hear that?

    An alternative ending was shot. It is about a minute long and takes place after the ending we got. Bond meets Mr White who shoots him. Kind of like the end of FRWL, the novel. It was cut because the film makers where unsure if they wanted to go on with their plans for the third Craig film to be the end of a trilogy.

    I never heard of this. The James Bond Archives or Some Kind of Hero would mention such a thing. The only alternative ending they shot had Bond kill Mr. White and interrogate Guy Haines.

    Also, I can't see EON killing off Bond after he made only two movies (and I'm pretty sure Craig was contracted for a third film).

    RE: Bond was hinted as bisexual in Skyfall

    No, he wan't. He was mocking Silva and possibly reference the torture scene from Casino Royale. Period. Enough with BS. Don't watch movies if you're too stupid to figure out what's going on the screen.

    Making it personal are we? Flagged

    I'm not making it personal at all, I don't know who you are. But if you believe that Bond is bisexual or you believe that he was hinted to be bisexual in any of the films, then yes, you are dumb.

    Alright I'll bite again, even though your tone is not really worth my time. You made it personal as you directly addressed me, my username. So that's that. Regarding making Bond anything other than a white British male from his original descent, one could think that drastic changes could be made in the future, given the current climate (SJW is rampant, let alone the stuff that's happening in Hollywood to please 'everyone') and the things that have been said in interviews. Sometimes it seems people in general are making a mockery of Bond, whether a casual, a fan or a Bond frontrunner. Again, Fleming was very clear and to me personally that's holy. Personal remarks aren't appreciated and you zooming in on one point is beside the point. Bond shouldn't be made a mockery.

    Fleming's Bond was also a racist. Should we rail against EON for ignoring that part of Fleming's Bond just to please "everyone"?
  • Posts: 1,906
    If the article is to be believed and EON themselves wanted Bond killed IMO that leads me to believe that P & W script was/is a true adaptation of YOLT
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited August 2018 Posts: 4,473
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Fleming already gave us the perfect ending for Craig's Bond...the end of YOLT.

    When in doubt, go back to Fleming. I'm pretty sure Babs is on the record as saying that, as is Cubby.

    Lets hope this is true!!

    I believe she said this on one of the CR documentaries.
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I applaud Boyle for sticking to his PPK and for ignoring Babs her idiotic reasoning. Sorry, but killing off Bond serves no purpose other than being egotistical. In my opinion she's been way over her head for years now and this to me is the final nail in the coffin. Babs and Craig both have been banging on about and wishing for a gay/female/black Bond and this way it could happen, by killing off the 'OG' Bond. Am I the only one to see this? Someone else needs to take over, a visionary, an easy example would be Nolan who could revamp the spirit of Bond, of Fleming. Whether it would take place in the 60s or present, but with a new actor as well. Bond needs change, not death.

    You are aware that Fleming himself had considered killing Bond, aren't you?

    You are aware that all those accusations towards Barbara Broccoli are lifted from tabloid journalism at best, aren't you?

    Don't write off 'tabloid' journalism too fast, as it makes sense in the scheme of things and the 'revelation' is quite detailed. Some points I made about them wanting to change into a gay/female/black Bond are facts, mind you. I edited my post to 'IF true'.

    News to me! Care to share links?

    "I think the role could easily be played by a black actor, because the character created by Ian Fleming in the Fifties has undergone a great deal of evolution and continues to be updated," Craig told the Agi news agency.

    "She (Broccoli) didn't go as far as to say that the next 007 will definitively be non-white and/or a woman, but she is very much open to it, saying "anything is possible."

    "These films tend to reflect the times so we always try to push the envelope a little bit. Anything is possible. Right now it's Daniel Craig, and I'm very happy with Daniel Craig, but who knows what the future will bring?"

    "Craig himself weighed in on the idea of a gay Bond three years ago after a torture scene in 2012’s Skyfall sparked speculation that his take on 007 might be bisexual. "

    It's no coincidence that Craig's top comments came in an interview which talked about Obama winning the presidency. Pure politics, just like his answer to the Bond question.

    That means, of course, that people would have to not take his comments at face value. Which people continuously prove to be incapable of.

    The same goes for the Bond being bi-sexual. He's not. That scene was just pure mind-games. Again, unless you just take it at face value.

    There's no facts there, just interpretation of politically correct answers. Even if Daniel Craig wasn't Bond - if it were some other white man - the answers would still be the same. Because it'd be rude to say otherwise.

    The Bond of the movies is contemporary. Therefore, the character changes with the times, and overt racism, sexism, homophobia have gone the way of the dodo in civilized society...so unless Eon does a period piece, we're not likely to see those qualities on the silver screen again.
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    edited August 2018 Posts: 940
    Walecs wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    TR007 wrote: »
    Don t forget, they originally wanted to end QOS with Bond seemingly killed by Mr White.

    First I heard of this. Where did you hear that?

    An alternative ending was shot. It is about a minute long and takes place after the ending we got. Bond meets Mr White who shoots him. Kind of like the end of FRWL, the novel. It was cut because the film makers where unsure if they wanted to go on with their plans for the third Craig film to be the end of a trilogy.

    I never heard of this. The James Bond Archives or Some Kind of Hero would mention such a thing. The only alternative ending they shot had Bond kill Mr. White and interrogate Guy Haines.

    Also, I can't see EON killing off Bond after he made only two movies (and I'm pretty sure Craig was contracted for a third film).

    RE: Bond was hinted as bisexual in Skyfall

    No, he wan't. He was mocking Silva and possibly reference the torture scene from Casino Royale. Period. Enough with BS. Don't watch movies if you're too stupid to figure out what's going on the screen.

    Making it personal are we? Flagged

    I'm not making it personal at all, I don't know who you are. But if you believe that Bond is bisexual or you believe that he was hinted to be bisexual in any of the films, then yes, you are dumb.

    Alright I'll bite again, even though your tone is not really worth my time. You made it personal as you directly addressed me, my username. So that's that. Regarding making Bond anything other than a white British male from his original descent, one could think that drastic changes could be made in the future, given the current climate (SJW is rampant, let alone the stuff that's happening in Hollywood to please 'everyone') and the things that have been said in interviews. Sometimes it seems people in general are making a mockery of Bond, whether a casual, a fan or a Bond frontrunner. Again, Fleming was very clear and to me personally that's holy. Personal remarks aren't appreciated and you zooming in on one point is beside the point. Bond shouldn't be made a mockery.

    Fleming's Bond was also a racist. Should we rail against EON for ignoring that part of Fleming's Bond just to please "everyone"?

    Most people were a bit racist back in the day, not only whites. It's all a matter of time and perspective, something a lot of people in this day and age tend to forget. Also, Bond his appearance and heritage are crystal clear. You really want to compare apples and oranges, or in this case Vodka Martini and Tequila?

    EoN not racist, how about this then? Some people think otherwise, again time and perspective: https://www.theguardian.com/film/shortcuts/2018/jun/11/james-bond-museum-sexism-racism-austrian-alps

    Excerpt: "When it opens in July, 007 Elements, a new museum in the Austrian Alps dedicated entirely to James Bond, will exhibit all sorts of familiar mementoes from the career of the suave British superspy. What it won’t include, however, is anything from Bond’s history deemed offensive to 21st-century sensibilities. Neal Callow, the museum’s creative director, said that he and his colleagues “wanted to show the legacy of the films in a modern and PC way”. But a Bond retrospective that ignores his casual sexism and racism is a bit like the Natural History Museum without the fossils. "

    Ludicrous in my opinion
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I continue to believe that the biggest mistake Broccoli made was permitting a sort of continuity narrative to develop around the Craig tenure. I don't just mean direct continuity, but also timeline sensitive development (such as acknowledging aging etc.).

    While it perhaps pleased his fans and those of the novels, it has boxed them in and given them limited options in a rapidly changing marketplace.

    Flexibility has been a key to this franchise's survival over the first 40 years. The way they approached things previously gave them more ability to change things up from time to time (whether it be tonally or otherwise, including actor switches).

    While what they've been doing lately has been financially successful, it has created some limitations for the future and made it more likely that the next iteration could be controversial either way.

    I'd go so far as to say it's been a bit selfish. Living for today at the expense of tomorrow. It makes sense if they plan to sell (in which case, why care?), but not otherwise.

    A potential way out of this quagmire is to discredit things so much that the world longs for a reset just to be relieved of the constant behind the scenes theatrics. Ironically, events seem to be playing out that way, whether intended or not.
  • Posts: 1,906
    echo wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Fleming already gave us the perfect ending for Craig's Bond...the end of YOLT.

    When in doubt, go back to Fleming. I'm pretty sure Babs is on the record as saying that, as is Cubby.

    Lets hope this is true!!

    I believe she said this on one of the CR documentaries.
    DarthDimi wrote: »



    She said it in the EON doc in 2012 I believe
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited August 2018 Posts: 4,473
    bondjames wrote: »
    I continue to believe that the biggest mistake Broccoli made was permitting a sort of continuity narrative to develop around the Craig tenure. I don't just mean direct continuity, but also timeline sensitive development (such as acknowledging aging etc.).

    While it perhaps pleased his fans and those of the novels, it has boxed them in and given them limited options in a rapidly changing marketplace.

    Flexibility has been a key to this franchise's survival over the first 40 years. The way they approached things previously gave them more ability to change things up from time to time (whether it be tonally or otherwise, including actor switches).

    While what they've been doing lately has been financially successful, it has created some limitations for the future and made it more likely that the next iteration could be controversial either way.

    I'd go so far as to say it's been a bit selfish. Living for today at the expense of tomorrow. It makes sense if they plan to sell (in which case, why care?), but not otherwise.

    A potential way out of this quagmire is to discredit things so much that the world longs for a reset just to be relieved of the constant behind the scenes theatrics. Ironically, events seem to be playing out that way, whether intended or not.

    There's also a form of accretion that happens with each two-hour film. Where FRWL could reference DN and have it be believe, so could QoS have a photo of Le Chiffre. And it could take some small steps forward and hint at the CR organization.

    But you get to GF and now they have a different Leiter and the continuity starts to slacken...similarly with SF which skips way ahead in time, with Bond now "over the hill." Don't even get me started on SP and its attempts to tie the previous films together...just poor writing.

    I like continuity and nods to the past but after about two films, it all goes to hell...
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    Univex wrote: »
    This thread is a true yarn by now ;)

    Do you think there's someone at EON reading all of this?

    I bloody well hope not. They've got bigger concerns go dedicate their time to, like finding a new director to start shooting this thing on time.


  • Posts: 74
    I assume some have already come across this article? I can understand them wanting to kill off Bond, particularly Craig who was quite exhausted after Spectre. But talking about a Doctor Who style regeneration? That's more sci-fi than even Moonraker..
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 4,473
    I'm pretty sure Eon's lawyers won't let them go on fan forums, especially with Nine Eyes and all...
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