No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    If he pulled off another CR, I believe that would cement him as the best Bond for many (certainly for me).

    Another film on a par with CR and I think I'd have to agree with you there.
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    Perfect world for me, Bond 25 a continuation of Spectre where Madeline dies at the end (not a remake of OHMSS but an ending similar to it), than Bond 26 in 2022 being a faithful adaptation to YOLT.

    And that ends Craigs run as Bond

    I'd be happy with that.

    But given we have had someone die being the climax of two out of four of Craig's films I'd have B25 be just a classic 'stop the villains scheme' film with gadgets and all that bollocks and with Madeline surviving. Blofeld would barely feature and the main villain would be a Largo type SPECTRE number 2.

    The end of the film would be as Hunt intended with Bond and Maddy driving off into the sunset.

    Then B26 would have Maddy being killed off in the PTS and be a very dark character driven piece with Bond's breakdown and depression and the ominous tone of the novel realised on screen and only one or two big action set pieces as a sop to the audience who expect these things. The end of the Craig era sees a broken Bond heading off towards Vladivostok. With a well written script (i.e. not by P&W) and the right director Dan might even blag himself an Oscar nomination as he bows out.
  • KuzcoKuzco france
    Posts: 26
    To come back to the subject, this situation on the return of craig does not make you think of that of Brosnan between 2002 and 2005? Many rumors always said he in the race for Casino Royale and many also said he would not go.
    I came across this interview of Brosnan in 2004 (he had not yet announced his departure).



    I know that it is not full but during the 10 min of interview, nothing on Bond whereas at that time, all the rumors spoke of the next 007. I fear that the interview of colbert on tuesday, gives the Same result result ie nothing on Bond
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 3,449
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Stuntmans Martin Ivanov and Gary Powell are both in Budapest. Maybe a possible B25 location?

    Would be absolutely lovely, if so. Budapest, maybe Croatia, interesting considering they're not too far from one another.

    Not sure. I mean, Budapest has been shown extensively in "Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol". What I want for Bond #25 is a truly Original and unique feel, especially when it comes to locations.

    Bond has been disappointing in many areas as if late and that definitely goes for locations. In SF we saw the same Turkish locations months prior in Taken 2, Italy has been used in 3 of the last 4 films
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Budapest does double as other places but I second it being used. My Wife and I went for a holiday there a few years back and fell in love with the place.

    Stayed here on the Pest side of the city.

    https://www.intercontinental.com/hotels/us/en/budapest/budhb/hoteldetail?qAdlt=1&qBrs=6c.hi.ex.rs.ic.cp.in.sb.cw.cv.ul.vn.ki.sp.nd.ct&qChld=0&qFRA=1&qGRM=0&qIta=99603195&qPSt=0&qRRSrt=rt&qRef=df&qRms=1&qRpn=1&qRpp=20&qSHp=1&qSmP=3&qSrt=sBR&qWch=0&srb_u=1&icdv=99603195&siclientid=1937&sitrackingid=948930706&dp=true&glat=SEAR

    Quite possibly the most luxurious hotel we've ever stayed in, it's an old converted bath house. The Danube would be a terrific location for Bond and there is a the castle on Buda side of the city.

    I have to admit I saw SPECTRE in a different light on my 2nd viewing less than a week later, my first take screening I was just all excited on seeing a new Bond film for the first time and possibly watched it in that frame of mind and thought it was great.

    It was only when it settled that I started to think things over the ESB angle by the time I got to 2nd screening I was starting to see the flaws, after the PTS bar rare moments like the Bond and White meet up it felt so flat and unexciting.

    I'll stand by Skyfall it's my no. 3, think Craig is for me still the stand out of that film despite Dench & Bardem on superb form.

    Yes the plot holes are there but it I feel suspense, excitement and danger, the PTS is one of the best of the series and the film never really lets up.

    The Scotland climax I know some don't like but I think after the Venice one in CR is the best of the DC era and certainly put the awfully generic one in SP into perspective.

    Would go as far to say it's a piece of shit maybe not quite but it resides right near the bottom of my rankings, below even some films I couldn't care too much for because to me it deserves that ranking as so much was riding on it, this wasn't just another entry, it could have been so good but it dragged an era for me that had done so much right although some flaws right down.

    SPECTRE taints the DC era, I just hope they can deal with it. In fact if they can continue from here and redeem this story and give us one or maybe 2 more to end the DC era I think that would make them more brave than just bunging on a standalone mission.

    For them to start what they finish and get over that hurdle that was SPECTRE and get this back on track would be a real feat. If they did I think it would return confidence in their abilities and some of us wouldn't be getting so intrigued by the idea of BB & MGW selling their share on for another studio and outfit to take the reins.

    Confront the Elephant in the room and really impress us into the bargain.

    Well said.

    I give Mendes a hard time for both his entries but SP for the most part is irredeemably disappointing.

    I watched SF yesterday and I enjoyed it quite a bit. It's definitely a lot better compared to previous viewings and the Scotland scenes didn't bother not bore me nearly as much as it has done in the past. SF is most certainly flawed but it's actually a lot better than I've given it credit for. The Tennyson/Court house shootout seemed a lot better too. Craig is great and he deserves to be compensated with at least one more film after the cock up that was SP. I also think the films miss Dench. She's great and ger dynamic with Craig rivals and in some cases surpasses the Lee/Connery dynamic.

    If Mendes couldn't make another Bond film at least on par with SF he shouldn't have bothered returning. In any case I'm glad I rewatched SF and had an enjoyable time with it.

    EoN are capable and deserving of another massive hit Bond film. Im really rooting for them to knock it out the park for Bond 25.

    Italy is an extremely photogenic country and Eon can go back there as much as they like, as far as I'm concerned.

    Anytime a Bond movie goes to Italy, the resulting scenes are often the highlight of the film. Take a look at QoS, SP, MR, TSWLM, FYEO, and of course CR and FRWL. The results speak for themselves.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    If he pulled off another CR, I believe that would cement him as the best Bond for many (certainly for me).

    Another film on a par with CR and I think I'd have to agree with you there.
    Not for me.
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    Perfect world for me, Bond 25 a continuation of Spectre where Madeline dies at the end (not a remake of OHMSS but an ending similar to it), than Bond 26 in 2022 being a faithful adaptation to YOLT.

    And that ends Craigs run as Bond

    I'd be happy with that.

    But given we have had someone die being the climax of two out of four of Craig's films I'd have B25 be just a classic 'stop the villains scheme' film with gadgets and all that bollocks and with Madeline surviving. Blofeld would barely feature and the main villain would be a Largo type SPECTRE number 2.

    The end of the film would be as Hunt intended with Bond and Maddy driving off into the sunset.

    Then B26 would have Maddy being killed off in the PTS and be a very dark character driven piece with Bond's breakdown and depression and the ominous tone of the novel realised on screen and only one or two big action set pieces as a sop to the audience who expect these things. The end of the Craig era sees a broken Bond heading off towards Vladivostok. With a well written script (i.e. not by P&W) and the right director Dan might even blag himself an Oscar nomination as he bows out.
    Are you really advocating for this thing being dragged out over two more films? One is more than enough for me at most. I also think we're getting ahead of ourselves with thoughts of Oscar noms for a Bond role. It's very unlikely.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 10,701
    bondjames wrote: »
    Yes @ForYourEyesOnly, I agree that it needs a revitalization. I just don't have the belief that some others do here that Craig has to be the man to do it. That has nothing to do with a dislike of him (he's my third favourite) but rather a strong feeling that in the interests of the long run health of the franchise, SP marked a clear ending (accentuated by its critical tepid reception) and EON should blaze forward with a new path after a 2nd long 4 year break.

    I can't see how it makes sense to go gritty and dark with a new approach on B25 with him in tow and then refresh again for B26. That runs the risk of potentially resembling the jumbled continuity (and tonal) mess that was the Roger Moore transition to Dalton for two before a long break and Brosnan. Or even the Connery to Laz to Connery to Moore switch. I don't want that kind of messy transition again just to benefit one actor's legacy.

    You have every right to dislike SP but you're slightly rewriting history by claiming it got a tepid critical reception. Most of the reviews I read (admitedly mainly from the UK) were glowing.

    Here's a sample of the critically "tepid" reaction SP got:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/reviews/spectre-20151104

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/james-bond-spectre/review/

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/21/spectre-review-james-bond-is-back-stylish-camp-and-sexily-pro-snowden
  • Posts: 1,632
    If he pulled off another CR, I believe that would cement him as the best Bond for many (certainly for me).

    Another film on a par with CR and I think I'd have to agree with you there.
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    Perfect world for me, Bond 25 a continuation of Spectre where Madeline dies at the end (not a remake of OHMSS but an ending similar to it), than Bond 26 in 2022 being a faithful adaptation to YOLT.

    And that ends Craigs run as Bond

    I'd be happy with that.

    But given we have had someone die being the climax of two out of four of Craig's films I'd have B25 be just a classic 'stop the villains scheme' film with gadgets and all that bollocks and with Madeline surviving. Blofeld would barely feature and the main villain would be a Largo type SPECTRE number 2.

    The end of the film would be as Hunt intended with Bond and Maddy driving off into the sunset.

    Then B26 would have Maddy being killed off in the PTS and be a very dark character driven piece with Bond's breakdown and depression and the ominous tone of the novel realised on screen and only one or two big action set pieces as a sop to the audience who expect these things. The end of the Craig era sees a broken Bond heading off towards Vladivostok. With a well written script (i.e. not by P&W) and the right director Dan might even blag himself an Oscar nomination as he bows out.

    That be a great idea as well.

    I don't mind this being dragged out in 2 films. More Craig the better imo.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Yes @ForYourEyesOnly, I agree that it needs a revitalization. I just don't have the belief that some others do here that Craig has to be the man to do it. That has nothing to do with a dislike of him (he's my third favourite) but rather a strong feeling that in the interests of the long run health of the franchise, SP marked a clear ending (accentuated by its critical tepid reception) and EON should blaze forward with a new path after a 2nd long 4 year break.

    I can't see how it makes sense to go gritty and dark with a new approach on B25 with him in tow and then refresh again for B26. That runs the risk of potentially resembling the jumbled continuity (and tonal) mess that was the Roger Moore transition to Dalton for two before a long break and Brosnan. Or even the Connery to Laz to Connery to Moore switch. I don't want that kind of messy transition again just to benefit one actor's legacy.

    You have every right to dislike SP but you're slightly rewriting history by claiming it got a tepid critical reception. Most of the reviews I read (admitedly mainly from the UK) were glowing.

    Here's a sample of the critically "tepid" reaction SP got:
    Actually I'm not rewriting history. You are. The UK was able to push market SF through to North America with glowing initial reviews, but that didn't work with SP. You can't sell a turd.

    Sorry.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited August 2017 Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    If he pulled off another CR, I believe that would cement him as the best Bond for many (certainly for me).

    Another film on a par with CR and I think I'd have to agree with you there.
    Not for me.
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    Perfect world for me, Bond 25 a continuation of Spectre where Madeline dies at the end (not a remake of OHMSS but an ending similar to it), than Bond 26 in 2022 being a faithful adaptation to YOLT.

    And that ends Craigs run as Bond

    I'd be happy with that.

    But given we have had someone die being the climax of two out of four of Craig's films I'd have B25 be just a classic 'stop the villains scheme' film with gadgets and all that bollocks and with Madeline surviving. Blofeld would barely feature and the main villain would be a Largo type SPECTRE number 2.

    The end of the film would be as Hunt intended with Bond and Maddy driving off into the sunset.

    Then B26 would have Maddy being killed off in the PTS and be a very dark character driven piece with Bond's breakdown and depression and the ominous tone of the novel realised on screen and only one or two big action set pieces as a sop to the audience who expect these things. The end of the Craig era sees a broken Bond heading off towards Vladivostok. With a well written script (i.e. not by P&W) and the right director Dan might even blag himself an Oscar nomination as he bows out.
    Are you really advocating for this thing being dragged out over two more films? One is more than enough for me at most. I also think we're getting ahead of ourselves with thoughts of Oscar noms for a Bond role. It's very unlikely.

    Well I'd sooner see it done well over two films than shambolically cobbled together into one.

    If they're going to do an adaptation of YOLT they need to set it up properly which they haven't done with SP. This way they could use B25 to dig themselves out of the SP hole and then go full tilt into a decent version of YOLT for B26. What I don't want to see is Blofeld escape, Maddy die and Bond be depressed before being sent off to Japan all in the first half hour of B25.

    I didn't say an Oscar nom was likely. But with the right script and director YOLT certainly has the heft to give a Bond actor a chance at a nomination. But of course given the rank mismanagement and reliance on P&W the odds of it happening are infintessimal.
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Yes @ForYourEyesOnly, I agree that it needs a revitalization. I just don't have the belief that some others do here that Craig has to be the man to do it. That has nothing to do with a dislike of him (he's my third favourite) but rather a strong feeling that in the interests of the long run health of the franchise, SP marked a clear ending (accentuated by its critical tepid reception) and EON should blaze forward with a new path after a 2nd long 4 year break.

    I can't see how it makes sense to go gritty and dark with a new approach on B25 with him in tow and then refresh again for B26. That runs the risk of potentially resembling the jumbled continuity (and tonal) mess that was the Roger Moore transition to Dalton for two before a long break and Brosnan. Or even the Connery to Laz to Connery to Moore switch. I don't want that kind of messy transition again just to benefit one actor's legacy.

    You have every right to dislike SP but you're slightly rewriting history by claiming it got a tepid critical reception. Most of the reviews I read (admitedly mainly from the UK) were glowing.

    Here's a sample of the critically "tepid" reaction SP got:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/reviews/spectre-20151104

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/james-bond-spectre/review/

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/21/spectre-review-james-bond-is-back-stylish-camp-and-sexily-pro-snowden

    For every positive UK review there's a US one slating it. The UK reviewers seemingly blinded by patriotic Bondian fervour were oblivious to its flaws whereas the yanks saw straight through it.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    If he pulled off another CR, I believe that would cement him as the best Bond for many (certainly for me).

    Another film on a par with CR and I think I'd have to agree with you there.
    Not for me.
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    Perfect world for me, Bond 25 a continuation of Spectre where Madeline dies at the end (not a remake of OHMSS but an ending similar to it), than Bond 26 in 2022 being a faithful adaptation to YOLT.

    And that ends Craigs run as Bond

    I'd be happy with that.

    But given we have had someone die being the climax of two out of four of Craig's films I'd have B25 be just a classic 'stop the villains scheme' film with gadgets and all that bollocks and with Madeline surviving. Blofeld would barely feature and the main villain would be a Largo type SPECTRE number 2.

    The end of the film would be as Hunt intended with Bond and Maddy driving off into the sunset.

    Then B26 would have Maddy being killed off in the PTS and be a very dark character driven piece with Bond's breakdown and depression and the ominous tone of the novel realised on screen and only one or two big action set pieces as a sop to the audience who expect these things. The end of the Craig era sees a broken Bond heading off towards Vladivostok. With a well written script (i.e. not by P&W) and the right director Dan might even blag himself an Oscar nomination as he bows out.
    Are you really advocating for this thing being dragged out over two more films? One is more than enough for me at most. I also think we're getting ahead of ourselves with thoughts of Oscar noms for a Bond role. It's very unlikely.

    Well I'd sooner see it done well over two films than shambolically cobbled together into one.

    If they're going to do an adaptation of YOLT they need to set it up properly which they haven't done with SP. This way they could use B25 to dig themselves out of the SP hole and then go full tilt into a decent version of YOLT for B26. What I don't want to see is Blofeld escape, Maddy die and Bond be depressed before being sent off to Japan all in the first half hour of B25.

    I didn't say an Oscar nom was likely. But with the right script and director YOLT certainly has the heft to give a Bond actor a chance at a nomination. But of course given the rank mismanagement and reliance on P&W the odds of it happening are infintessimal.
    Ah, I get it now. Fair enough and I agree then. Best not to disgrace themselves further with another botched rush job in one film.

    This doesn't square with P&W's musings about new threats and what not though, which suggests they are turning the page on things.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited August 2017 Posts: 6,487
    Going back to a previous comment (and others I've read on here before), I just don't think it's possible for them to "pull off" another CR. Everything just came together perfectly in that moment. The stars aligned and it's just one of those special films that only come around every so often. They can't just pull it out of a hat. Can Craig even bring that same intensity anymore? Perhaps, but I'm not so sure. That being said, they can certainly improve upon the disappointing SP.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 10,701
    bondjames wrote: »
    If he pulled off another CR, I believe that would cement him as the best Bond for many (certainly for me).

    Another film on a par with CR and I think I'd have to agree with you there.
    Not for me.
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    Perfect world for me, Bond 25 a continuation of Spectre where Madeline dies at the end (not a remake of OHMSS but an ending similar to it), than Bond 26 in 2022 being a faithful adaptation to YOLT.

    And that ends Craigs run as Bond

    I'd be happy with that.

    But given we have had someone die being the climax of two out of four of Craig's films I'd have B25 be just a classic 'stop the villains scheme' film with gadgets and all that bollocks and with Madeline surviving. Blofeld would barely feature and the main villain would be a Largo type SPECTRE number 2.

    The end of the film would be as Hunt intended with Bond and Maddy driving off into the sunset.

    Then B26 would have Maddy being killed off in the PTS and be a very dark character driven piece with Bond's breakdown and depression and the ominous tone of the novel realised on screen and only one or two big action set pieces as a sop to the audience who expect these things. The end of the Craig era sees a broken Bond heading off towards Vladivostok. With a well written script (i.e. not by P&W) and the right director Dan might even blag himself an Oscar nomination as he bows out.
    Are you really advocating for this thing being dragged out over two more films? One is more than enough for me at most. I also think we're getting ahead of ourselves with thoughts of Oscar noms for a Bond role. It's very unlikely.

    Well I'd sooner see it done well over two films than shambolically cobbled together into one.

    If they're going to do an adaptation of YOLT they need to set it up properly which they haven't done with SP. This way they could use B25 to dig themselves out of the SP hole and then go full tilt into a decent version of YOLT for B26. What I don't want to see is Blofeld escape, Maddy die and Bond be depressed before being sent off to Japan all in the first half hour of B25.

    I didn't say an Oscar nom was likely. But with the right script and director YOLT certainly has the heft to give a Bond actor a chance at a nomination. But of course given the rank mismanagement and reliance on P&W the odds of it happening are infintessimal.
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Yes @ForYourEyesOnly, I agree that it needs a revitalization. I just don't have the belief that some others do here that Craig has to be the man to do it. That has nothing to do with a dislike of him (he's my third favourite) but rather a strong feeling that in the interests of the long run health of the franchise, SP marked a clear ending (accentuated by its critical tepid reception) and EON should blaze forward with a new path after a 2nd long 4 year break.

    I can't see how it makes sense to go gritty and dark with a new approach on B25 with him in tow and then refresh again for B26. That runs the risk of potentially resembling the jumbled continuity (and tonal) mess that was the Roger Moore transition to Dalton for two before a long break and Brosnan. Or even the Connery to Laz to Connery to Moore switch. I don't want that kind of messy transition again just to benefit one actor's legacy.

    You have every right to dislike SP but you're slightly rewriting history by claiming it got a tepid critical reception. Most of the reviews I read (admitedly mainly from the UK) were glowing.

    Here's a sample of the critically "tepid" reaction SP got:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/reviews/spectre-20151104

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/james-bond-spectre/review/

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/21/spectre-review-james-bond-is-back-stylish-camp-and-sexily-pro-snowden

    For every positive UK review there's a US one slating it. The UK reviewers seemingly blinded by patriotic Bondian fervour were oblivious to its flaws whereas the yanks saw straight through it.

    So what?

    Does that change the fact that the UK reviews were actually wildly positive?

    Yes we know the US market and critics sometimes respond differently. LTK went down well in the UK and Europe but tanked in the US.

    The fact American critics may not have liked SP doesnt negate the fact it was very well received elsewhere and did highly respectabLe box office.

    I'm just stating a fact, while qualifying what I'm saying by acknowledging It was UK critics who went mad for SP. @bondjames might want to do the same and acknowldege that while there may have been a tepid critical response in the US , the US is not a proxy for the entire globe.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    If he pulled off another CR, I believe that would cement him as the best Bond for many (certainly for me).

    Another film on a par with CR and I think I'd have to agree with you there.
    Not for me.
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    Perfect world for me, Bond 25 a continuation of Spectre where Madeline dies at the end (not a remake of OHMSS but an ending similar to it), than Bond 26 in 2022 being a faithful adaptation to YOLT.

    And that ends Craigs run as Bond

    I'd be happy with that.

    But given we have had someone die being the climax of two out of four of Craig's films I'd have B25 be just a classic 'stop the villains scheme' film with gadgets and all that bollocks and with Madeline surviving. Blofeld would barely feature and the main villain would be a Largo type SPECTRE number 2.

    The end of the film would be as Hunt intended with Bond and Maddy driving off into the sunset.

    Then B26 would have Maddy being killed off in the PTS and be a very dark character driven piece with Bond's breakdown and depression and the ominous tone of the novel realised on screen and only one or two big action set pieces as a sop to the audience who expect these things. The end of the Craig era sees a broken Bond heading off towards Vladivostok. With a well written script (i.e. not by P&W) and the right director Dan might even blag himself an Oscar nomination as he bows out.
    Are you really advocating for this thing being dragged out over two more films? One is more than enough for me at most. I also think we're getting ahead of ourselves with thoughts of Oscar noms for a Bond role. It's very unlikely.

    Well I'd sooner see it done well over two films than shambolically cobbled together into one.

    If they're going to do an adaptation of YOLT they need to set it up properly which they haven't done with SP. This way they could use B25 to dig themselves out of the SP hole and then go full tilt into a decent version of YOLT for B26. What I don't want to see is Blofeld escape, Maddy die and Bond be depressed before being sent off to Japan all in the first half hour of B25.

    I didn't say an Oscar nom was likely. But with the right script and director YOLT certainly has the heft to give a Bond actor a chance at a nomination. But of course given the rank mismanagement and reliance on P&W the odds of it happening are infintessimal.
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Yes @ForYourEyesOnly, I agree that it needs a revitalization. I just don't have the belief that some others do here that Craig has to be the man to do it. That has nothing to do with a dislike of him (he's my third favourite) but rather a strong feeling that in the interests of the long run health of the franchise, SP marked a clear ending (accentuated by its critical tepid reception) and EON should blaze forward with a new path after a 2nd long 4 year break.

    I can't see how it makes sense to go gritty and dark with a new approach on B25 with him in tow and then refresh again for B26. That runs the risk of potentially resembling the jumbled continuity (and tonal) mess that was the Roger Moore transition to Dalton for two before a long break and Brosnan. Or even the Connery to Laz to Connery to Moore switch. I don't want that kind of messy transition again just to benefit one actor's legacy.

    You have every right to dislike SP but you're slightly rewriting history by claiming it got a tepid critical reception. Most of the reviews I read (admitedly mainly from the UK) were glowing.

    Here's a sample of the critically "tepid" reaction SP got:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/reviews/spectre-20151104

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/james-bond-spectre/review/

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/21/spectre-review-james-bond-is-back-stylish-camp-and-sexily-pro-snowden

    For every positive UK review there's a US one slating it. The UK reviewers seemingly blinded by patriotic Bondian fervour were oblivious to its flaws whereas the yanks saw straight through it.

    So what?

    Does that change the fact that the UK reviews (and presumably European and Asian too) were actually wildly positive?

    Yes we know the US market and critics responds differently. LTK went down well in the UK and Europe but tanked in the US.

    The fact American critics may not have liked SP doesnt negate the fact it was very well received elsewhere and did highly respectabLe box office.
    If you think US box office and word of mouth doesn't matter, even today with a smaller piece of the global pie, you're in for a surprise.

    They control the narrative and the loudspeaker. Production costs are measured in US$ and with exchange rates being volatile, revenue and net profit conversion into US $ will be quite important for a future studio, who only takes a small piece of the pie (With EON & MGM retaining the bulk based on Sony data). All of the studios vying for the distribution job are US based and retain a higher % of the pie in US theatres (according to what I've read) due to arrangement with theatre chains.

    US critical reception and opinion does matter disproportionately even today.

    LTK? Widely regarded as a flop, despite its global positive grosses.

    Oh, and btw, we are all aware that UK critics went mad for SP. You're not stating anything that we don't know. When have they not gone mad for a Craig Bond film? That's not the point and is irrelevant. It's a home grown entity. There was a coordinated marketing approach taken with SF (positive reviews for two weeks prior to US release) which worked brilliantly to create positive market buzz and it backfired with SP. I even called attention to it 'before' SP's release anywhere as a possible risk on the box office thread that was active at the time (e.g. stating that the US word of mouth would be critical to keeping the momentum built in the UK going, as had happened with SF). I also mentioned a few weeks back that with the fall in the UK £ since Brexit, UK gross will likely be less relevant going forward.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 3,449
    Wait, some people want Madeline Swann for two more films, and others want her not mentioned at all?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 31,938
    echo wrote: »
    Wait, some people want Madeline Swann for two more films, and others want her not mentioned at all?

    One film was more than enough for me. Three total would be unbearable.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 9,588
    I'd be totally cool with Seydoux returning, so long as she isn't the main Bond-girl again.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 484
    pachazo wrote: »
    Going back to a previous comment (and others I've read on here before), I just don't think it's possible for them to "pull off" another CR. Everything just came together perfectly in that moment. The stars aligned and it's just one of those special films that only come around every so often. They can't just pull it out of a hat. Can Craig even bring that same intensity anymore? Perhaps, but I'm not so sure. That being said, they can certainly improve upon the disappointing SP.

    I just think that's a defeatist, unambitious attitude. One I fear EON may share or be lazy about. Here's an idea, they own the rights to Fleming... Get a writing team to adapt one of his books and another team to write an original script. Whichever one is better, make it. CR isn't even top 5 book for me, so yes they could make another just as good, if not better. If some writers pull off something original that's miraculously good, great. Now you're still bound by EON and CO's taste and judgement when it comes to knowing what a good script actually is (or when it's finished or where it is in the process), so that's a problem. But I maintain someone can match, if not surpass CR. But it will be in the writing first. CR is my favorite JB film, but being hyper critical, it's not a perfect film, there's still room for improvement. I want a team dedicated to the source material, understanding a great, finished script, and hiring suitable directors for the material. You do that you may actually get a series of great pictures, not a one off and then fumbling about to marginal or varying degrees of success.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    For me, the Vesper/Bond dynamic, the casino sequence & the Bahamas sequences made CR special. It was elegant, refined and the sequences had time to breathe, recalling classic Bond films.

    The rest of it was fairly run of the mill, except for the parkour sequence which was a real thrill & the ball whacker where Craig shined.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 6,487
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    pachazo wrote: »
    Going back to a previous comment (and others I've read on here before), I just don't think it's possible for them to "pull off" another CR. Everything just came together perfectly in that moment. The stars aligned and it's just one of those special films that only come around every so often. They can't just pull it out of a hat. Can Craig even bring that same intensity anymore? Perhaps, but I'm not so sure. That being said, they can certainly improve upon the disappointing SP.

    I just think that's a defeatist, unambitious attitude. One I fear EON may share or be lazy about. Here's an idea, they own the rights to Fleming... Get a writing team to adapt one of his books and another team to write an original script. Whichever one is better, make it. CR isn't even top 5 book for me, so yes they could make another just as good, if not better. If some writers pull off something original that's miraculously good, great. Now you're still bound by EON and CO's taste and judgement when it comes to knowing what a good script actually is (or when it's finished or where it is in the process), so that's a problem. But I maintain someone can match, if not surpass CR. But it will be in the writing first. CR is my favorite JB film, but being hyper critical, it's not a perfect film, there's still room for improvement. I want a team dedicated to the source material, understanding a great, finished script, and hiring suitable directors for the material. You do that you may actually get a series of great pictures, not a one off and then fumbling about to marginal or varying degrees of success.

    Listen, I'm all for it, but I'm just going by their track record. If you want to call that defeatist then so be it. There's no question that the writing needs to improve. I'd be shocked (but happy) if we got a script, cast, score and performance from Craig that matched CR, that's all.
  • Posts: 170
    I don't think anyone can supersede Connery as the GBOAT. By performance standard, not a chance Craig is on his level. Plus Connery has a better set of films.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    The_Donald wrote: »
    I don't think anyone can supersede Connery as the GBOAT. By performance standard, not a chance Craig is on his level. Plus Connery has a better set of films.
    Hear hear!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The_Donald wrote: »
    I don't think anyone can supersede Connery as the GBOAT. By performance standard, not a chance Craig is on his level. Plus Connery has a better set of films.
    Hear hear!
    +2.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 2,821
    A fan favourite and a masterpiece aren't the same thing, however. I don't think outside the Connery era, and perhaps OHMSS (even though it has its haters mostly because of Lazenby), Bond really had a masterpiece. SF is a fan favourite, not a masterpiece. Far from it. CR, on the other hand, comes close in its own way.

    That said, ditching the downer endings three of Craig's films possess, I'd like something along the lines of both From Russia with Love and The Living Daylights. That's as decent and balanced as the Craig Bond would get.

    CR, as great as it was/is, is far too stripped down, and its semi-repetitive cycle for the rest of the current actor's tenure really grew the formula of it rather old. SF should never be repeated. And SP should have just deleted what was necessarily destroying the third act which didn't go unnoticed even during pre-production. Cut out the middle man (London Finale, that was always the problem) and expand the Blofeld lair. That set could've cost less than some "realistic world record earning" big explosion and an ugly bespoke car that is the DB10. It's not even a practical car to be driven. They could've just taken an existing car and it would've cost them by far less.

    Very good post. Especially the part in bold.
  • Posts: 170
    I must be tired because I'm not sure what that criticism is. By 'stripped down' do you mean too basic?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    The_Donald wrote: »
    I must be tired because I'm not sure what that criticism is. By 'stripped down' do you mean too basic?
    Yes, in a way. It deals with a basic problem that isn't crucial as the rest of the Bond adventures, per se. Then again, that also was the case in the novel, so it felt rather great for that one entry. But, constantly having to repeat the same tone, character drama with the maintenance of the same Bond Begins story arc for the rest of the three films just made the category tiresome as hell.

    There are by far more dangerous and other sorts of threats in the world than surveillance problems or rogue agents trying to sell out MI6. What ever happened to the larger-than-life overseas menace? One would think a foreign intelligence agency like MI6 would go after them rather than constantly trying to be MI5.
  • Posts: 2,081
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Wait, some people want Madeline Swann for two more films, and others want her not mentioned at all?

    One film was more than enough for me. Three total would be unbearable.

    I'm completely in agreement with you on this.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing South Florida
    Posts: 3,138
    bondjames wrote: »
    For me, the Vesper/Bond dynamic, the casino sequence & the Bahamas sequences made CR special. It was elegant, refined and the sequences had time to breathe, recalling classic Bond films.

    The rest of it was fairly run of the mill, except for the parkour sequence which was a real thrill & the ball whacker where Craig shined.

    So pretty much the whole film?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    For me, the Vesper/Bond dynamic, the casino sequence & the Bahamas sequences made CR special. It was elegant, refined and the sequences had time to breathe, recalling classic Bond films.

    The rest of it was fairly run of the mill, except for the parkour sequence which was a real thrill & the ball whacker where Craig shined.

    So pretty much the whole film?
    Not quite. Miami was serviceable. After ball whacker I'm not too fond of it actually (I hardly watch it because of this). It's only really that middle bit at the casino that really elevates the film to greatness for me. It's in the dialogue and the acting during that entire section.
  • If he pulled off another CR, I believe that would cement him as the best Bond for many (certainly for me).

    Another film on a par with CR and I think I'd have to agree with you there.
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    Perfect world for me, Bond 25 a continuation of Spectre where Madeline dies at the end (not a remake of OHMSS but an ending similar to it), than Bond 26 in 2022 being a faithful adaptation to YOLT.

    And that ends Craigs run as Bond

    I'd be happy with that.

    But given we have had someone die being the climax of two out of four of Craig's films I'd have B25 be just a classic 'stop the villains scheme' film with gadgets and all that bollocks and with Madeline surviving. Blofeld would barely feature and the main villain would be a Largo type SPECTRE number 2.

    The end of the film would be as Hunt intended with Bond and Maddy driving off into the sunset.

    Then B26 would have Maddy being killed off in the PTS and be a very dark character driven piece with Bond's breakdown and depression and the ominous tone of the novel realised on screen and only one or two big action set pieces as a sop to the audience who expect these things. The end of the Craig era sees a broken Bond heading off towards Vladivostok. With a well written script (i.e. not by P&W) and the right director Dan might even blag himself an Oscar nomination as he bows out.

    But we literally just got a film with gadgets and a secret base and stuff that ended with Bond and Madeline driving off into the sunset. What would be the point in keeping her around for another film (don't see how you can do a "traditional" Bond film with her anyway since she made it clear it was her or the job), only to end it in the exact same way SP ended? You might not like the film but they already did Hunt's ending. It takes them long enough for them to make these films as it is so if they're going to do that storyline they need to do it now instead of dragging out that story arc for the sake of giving Craig a straightforward Bond on a mission film (SP had most of the tropes anyway and here's a thought, maybe he doesn't want one? He has some amount of creative input and seems to like the personal angle his films have taken).

    If Craig comes back for Bond 25, it has to be a YOLT adaptation imo. Madeline dies in the PTS, after the titles it's months later and Bond is back at MI6 but it isn't really working out because he's depressed (I'd argue that he doesn't actually love Madeline but she was a way out for him, a chance at a normal life, he could be in bits about losing that). If Craig returns and they don't use YOLT at all, or if Craig returns and they stall it for a film as you suggested, giving him two more and delaying the next actor/fresh start by near enough another decade at the rate they make films now, then I'll be very disappointed.

    I still think that SP felt like the end and there's no need for another, but one more Craig film that gives us a faithful adaptation of YOLT I can just about get on board with. I think the premise is pretty boring at this point but if they manage to make it really good then I can't really complain as that's actually my favourite Bond novel. But two more? He's going to be 51 when Bond 25 comes out and he looks his age. He's already been Bond for almost as long as Roger Moore and if he does two more films we'll be looking at the best part of ten years before we get a proper fresh start. I think he's great too but Bond thrives off change. If Craig does two more then by the time the next actor debuts it'll probably have been 20 years since CR. That's too long. He should have done at least one more film (there should have been a grounded but straightforward Bond on a mission film in between QoS and SF imo) but I think he's been Bond for that long now that the time for that is past. If they want to do YOLT for Bond 25 then okay. I can get behind that. But please let that be the last.
  • Posts: 170
    The_Donald wrote: »
    I must be tired because I'm not sure what that criticism is. By 'stripped down' do you mean too basic?
    Yes, in a way. It deals with a basic problem that isn't crucial as the rest of the Bond adventures, per se. Then again, that also was the case in the novel, so it felt rather great for that one entry. But, constantly having to repeat the same tone, character drama with the maintenance of the same Bond Begins story arc for the rest of the three films just made the category tiresome as hell.

    There are by far more dangerous and other sorts of threats in the world than surveillance problems or rogue agents trying to sell out MI6. What ever happened to the larger-than-life overseas menace? One would think a foreign intelligence agency like MI6 would go after them rather than constantly trying to be MI5.

    Thanks for elaborating. I agree with your criticism about the apparent need for an arc hanging like a dead weight around Craig's films, culminating in the bizarre retcon in SP. I don't mind a 'small scale' threat like in CR, which I think is by far Craig's best btw. Ironically I also thought CR was less weighed down by 'character drama' than his others.
  • Posts: 1,183
    The only possible way Craig does 2 more is if their back to back. He wont wait 3-4 more years after B25. too old. I have a feeling this next one in 2019 is Craigs last outing that brings his character full circle.
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