SPECTRE Leaks Discussion (allowed on ONLY this thread) MAJOR PLOTLINE SPOILERS!

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  • doubleoego wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Furthermore someone mentioned that this could be Craig's last because of his age...I don't think so. He's only 46 and looks younger than he dud 2 years ago not to mention his look has a settled appearance meaning he can look noticeably the same for quite a few years to come. Also, I know Moore looked young for his age but in terms of physical fitness he's never been in Craig's league and he was 45 when he did his first movie out of his total 7. Brosnan was 49 by the time DAD came out and people here and all over the world were sure he'd do a 5th and were dismayed when the role was recast. He would have been in his early 50s had he done a 5th. Then there's Tom Cruise who is 51 and is filming mission impossible......and the big one; we have a 50 year old Bond girl! If a Bond girl can be cast at 50 do you think a 50 year old Bond is out of the question? Of course not, it only cements and advocates Craig not only doing his contracted 5th but a possible 6th from the perspective of age.

    But did Moore and Brosnan do their own stunts at that age? No. Of course, I am just speculating, but I don't think Craig will continue if he doesn't think he can do the films right: which is doing most of his own stunts.

    Moore and Brosnan were not and never have been in the same league as Craig when it comes to physical fitness and like I mentioned, Moore was in the role beyond 50 and had Brosnan done his 5th he would have been at least 51 or 52 by the earliest release of his 5th movie. Tom Cruise as I mentioned is 52 and the man is doing impressively crazy crazy stuff. Lastly, with a role and movie series that Craig has shown proactive dedication to, become fittingly confident in and has much respect for the craft, not to mention if the stories are great, the talent top notch and the money being right; to hinge it all on whether or not he can do most of his own stunts is silly.

    Well said. I don't understand why people are suddenly saying Craig is too old. Craig has kept himself in FAR better shape than any Bond actor before him to reach their 40s. And I couldn't help but notice that Craig looked pretty spry and chipper during the SP press conference which furthers my theory that they deliberately went out of their way to make Craig look a bit older in SF to sell the idea of Bond being burnt out. Bond 25 would be released 2-3 years after SP. Making Craig 49-50 which I think is a perfect age for retirement as far as Bond actors go. But if his looks and physical fitness keeps up I don't see why he couldn't do a sixth. Especially if they incorporate his age into the story.
  • I think whats being forgotten here is that these emails and notes come from 'the suits'. These people are the business end of things, they put up the money that lets the magic happen. Their creative opinions have very little weight and are likely totally off-point.

    Mendes has crafted a script to his own specifications and knows why the film has to be the way it is. Just look at the interviews he gave at the launch, he's brimming with confidence. He's the creative head of this film and understands the story better than anyone. Amy Pascal et al have to read hundreds of scripts and are looking at the film purely from a financial perspective and for them the finale lacks impact. EON have lived with this story for two years, they know what they are doing. If these leaks show anything it's that Sony clearly haven't got a grip on anything.

    I'd imagine EON had to fight for their relatively low-key finale for SF, which on paper sounds very uneventful: There is a fight in some lonely old house in a Scottish moor and an old woman gets shot. But it works in practise. I have utter faith in Mendes after Sf and know Spectre will be fantastic.
  • I hope some of the more upbeat interpretations of the "script" are correct as what's known is leaving me a little flat. I loved Skyfall - but some of the proposed themes in early drafts Spectre seem to repeat those themes by numbers: old secret service vs out of touch government, the idea that Bond's universe is some collection of extended family, a bruised villain who is part of that, not knowing who your real friends are, etc...
  • I hope some of the more upbeat interpretations of the "script" are correct as what's known is leaving me a little flat. I loved Skyfall - but some of the proposed themes in early drafts Spectre seem to repeat those themes by numbers: old secret service vs out of touch government, the idea that Bond's universe is some collection of extended family, a bruised villain who is part of that, not knowing who your real friends are, etc...

    Well Mendes said in interviews that SP would be a continuation of sorts to SF.

    Part of me had hoped that with either Bond 24 or Bond 25 we'd get a more traditional Bond film starring Daniel Craig, just for the sake of variety. But now, more than ever, I'm pretty sure that'll never happen in the Craig Era. And possibly not for a very long time as what they're doing now is working very well. Even though Michael Wilson and Barbara Broccoli produced the Brosnan films, those films never felt like it had their individual stamp on it. They were just following what worked for Cubby. Now it's like one could divide the Bond films into 2 very different era. The classical Cubby era from 1962-2002 and the current Wilson/Broccoli era that's ongoing. They might not be interested in ever going backwards.
  • I don't mind a continuation of sorts as long as it doesn't feel as if by numbers. From what I've read, the motivation of the chief villain feels a bit like that. That said, the pedigree of the film makers ought to lift it well above the fray
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I think whats being forgotten here is that these emails and notes come from 'the suits'. These people are the business end of things, they put up the money that lets the magic happen. Their creative opinions have very little weight and are likely totally off-point.

    Mendes has crafted a script to his own specifications and knows why the film has to be the way it is. Just look at the interviews he gave at the launch, he's brimming with confidence. He's the creative head of this film and understands the story better than anyone. Amy Pascal et al have to read hundreds of scripts and are looking at the film purely from a financial perspective and for them the finale lacks impact. EON have lived with this story for two years, they know what they are doing. If these leaks show anything it's that Sony clearly haven't got a grip on anything.

    I'd imagine EON had to fight for their relatively low-key finale for SF, which on paper sounds very uneventful: There is a fight in some lonely old house in a Scottish moor and an old woman gets shot. But it works in practise. I have utter faith in Mendes after Sf and know Spectre will be fantastic.

    But many of the issues the suits raised were good points though; even though it's a draft and I guess there's a possibility that some of the more meatier stuff were left out or lightly touched upon to expand for a later draft but clarity is important and transparency of motivations and why audiences should care are factors that need to be addressed and made clear and that's what has happened. Mendes, Craig and EON weren't happy with Logan's work at all, that was made publicly clear to us and with whatever the final shooting script is, everyone appears to be happy with and the cast and crew it's attracted is arguably the best the series has ever had. All in all, I think most of the feedback the execs gave were reasonable, constructive and justified. The only issue with the feedback which EON have rightfully ignored was the penny pinching after everything was sorted for the last act and the fact some of the execs are clearly confused and making assumptions as opposed to really knowing the facts of the story.

    Anyway, I too have faith and a lot of confidence that SPECTRE is going to be a triumphant 4th entry and it'll end up positively shocking fans and audiences. I can't wait for the inevitable Le interviews with the prods, cast and crew about this whole hacking/leak business.
  • Posts: 1,496
    doubleoego wrote: »

    But many of the issues the suits raised were good points though; even though it's a draft and I guess there's a possibility that some of the more meatier stuff were left out or lightly touched upon to expand for a later draft but clarity is important and transparency of motivations and why audiences should care are factors that need to be addressed and made clear and that's what has happened. Mendes, Craig and EON weren't happy with Logan's work at all, that was made publicly clear to us and with whatever the final shooting script is, everyone appears to be happy with and the cast and crew it's attracted is arguably the best the series has ever had. All in all, I think most of the feedback the execs gave were reasonable, constructive and justified. The only issue with the feedback which EON have rightfully ignored was the penny pinching after everything was sorted for the last act and the fact some of the execs are clearly confused and making assumptions as opposed to really knowing the facts of the story.

    Anyway, I too have faith and a lot of confidence that SPECTRE is going to be a triumphant 4th entry and it'll end up positively shocking fans and audiences. I can't wait for the inevitable Le interviews with the prods, cast and crew about this whole hacking/leak business.

    I think you are right to be optimistic. The leaked drafts are, it appears, earlier drafts, and scripts evolve a great deal from one draft to the next.

  • Posts: 3,164
    Dunno if I can/should link it here but there's a pretty damn good (in terms of objectiveness and what needs to be improved upon) review of one of the leaked drafts in Russian.
  • Sounds to me like its going to be Craig's last mission. Seems intense and epic, something the last film of a Bond should always have. I like the sound of the villain, which was an unpredictable choice, considering we were sure it was going to be Blofeld. I never expected them to delve further into Bond's past, especially in the case of his childhood as an orphan.

    Really interesting film by the sounds of it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited December 2014 Posts: 24,220
    All members are discouraged to post leaks anywhere on the forum. However, some mild bits and pieces can be tolerated but only in this thread. They shall be removed anywhere else and members are asked to instantly flag a heavy spoiler or leaked bit not posted here. Yet even in this thread we cannot tolerate everything. Our forum has chosen to remain absolutely free of script screenshots and the like.

    If you are unsure as to whether or not you can post something, please post only a link to another website and with clear spoiler warnings in
    this thread, or better still, PM a mod.

    Since some leaked content can seriously spoil the fun of being a Bond fan for our members and in fact damage this website that we can all enjoy for free, violation of these rules may result in warnings and eventually in a permanent ban.

    Thank you for your cooperation.
    The MI6 Community mod team
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,619
    One of the most interesting things I have read so far is that in an early John Logan draft Blofeld was an ugly lesbian... (and Tilda Swinton was considered for the role by some people)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,220
    @PanchitoPisteles, I'm beginning to sense that your source is very unreliable. :-)
  • Posts: 4,619
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @PanchitoPisteles, I'm beginning to sense that your source is very unreliable. :-)

    I will send you a PM.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,587
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Isn't Daniel Craig under contract for Bond 25? Why is there speculation that this is his final film a.

    He is but people are getting overzealous and carried away, making assumptions based on a lack of concrete evidence.

    Let's be clear, Yes, he is contracted for 25. No, nobody is predicting or hoping Craig leaves--lord, no. But don't be surprised if it happens. That's all. Craig has already hinted (going back two years ago) that he may be getting too old for the role.

    http://metro.co.uk/2012/10/23/skyfall-star-daniel-craig-i-wont-outstay-my-welcome-as-james-bond-606383/

    Skyfall took so much out of him that, until now, he hasn't filmed a movie since.
  • Posts: 4,619
    TripAces wrote: »
    Let's be clear, Yes, he is contracted for 25. No, nobody is predicting or hoping Craig leaves--lord, no. But don't be surprised if it happens. That's all. Craig has already hinted (going back two years ago) that he may be getting too old for the role.

    http://metro.co.uk/2012/10/23/skyfall-star-daniel-craig-i-wont-outstay-my-welcome-as-james-bond-606383/

    Skyfall took so much out of him that, until now, he hasn't filmed a movie since.

    Daniel Craig is an amazing actor and I am very glad they chose him for the role back in 2005. Having said that, the fact that 4 movies in he is already too old for the role is exatly the reason that chosing a 37 year old actor to play a rookie agent might not have been the best idea.

    Bond was a beginner in CR and QOS and then suddenly he became too old to be an agent in SF and Spectre...
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 212
    Am I the only one who thinks the leaks might affect, in some way, SPECTRE for the better?
    By checking on how the Bond fans on the internet responds, EON could make changes in the script that would ultimately improve the final product..
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    antovolk wrote: »
    Dunno if I can/should link it here but there's a pretty damn good (in terms of objectiveness and what needs to be improved upon) review of one of the leaked drafts in Russian.
    antovolk wrote: »
    Dunno if I can/should link it here but there's a pretty damn good (in terms of objectiveness and what needs to be improved upon) review of one of the leaked drafts in Russian.
    TripAces wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Isn't Daniel Craig under contract for Bond 25? Why is there speculation that this is his final film a.

    He is but people are getting overzealous and carried away, making assumptions based on a lack of concrete evidence.

    Let's be clear, Yes, he is contracted for 25. No, nobody is predicting or hoping Craig leaves--lord, no. But don't be surprised if it happens. That's all. Craig has already hinted (going back two years ago) that he may be getting too old for the role.

    http://metro.co.uk/2012/10/23/skyfall-star-daniel-craig-i-wont-outstay-my-welcome-as-james-bond-606383/

    Skyfall took so much out of him that, until now, he hasn't filmed a movie since.

    Firstly, Craig has been busy doing other things since SF. He doesn't have to be in movies; I believe he was im a lengthy theatre production with his wife that ended earlier in the year.

    As for that link, it's just Craig doing promotional spiel in the guise of deprecating humility. It's typical Craig. Which fans are going to tell him to stop after SPECTRE? SF made over a billion dollars and is the highest grossing film in Britain's history. Craig attracts the best talent to get involved, he's the most popular Bond since Connery and you think EON are going to put their hands up, shrug their shoulders and tell Craig, "the people have spoken; thanks for everything but time to get on your bike". I don't think so. If Mendes after taking SF to victory wasn't wiling to come back and ended up doing so, you think Babs of all people isn't going to ensure Craig fulfils the contractual obligation? Furthermore, Cruise, the Expendable actors, Neeson...these guys are all older than Craig is, all older than 50 and Craig who at 46 is getting too old to do the action? Riiiiiiiiiiight. We have our fist 50 year old Bond girl, I think people are underestimating the significance of this casting. All I can say is what I've been saying, SPECTRE will not be Craig's last Bond movie.
  • Posts: 1,496
    I agree Doubleoego. I think IF (?) Bond is pulled out of retirement in Bond 25 for one final mission it would be the perfect conclusion for his Bond. What a journey from CR to his final mission. Makes dramatic sense. And, as with SF, they are not trying to hide his age as they did with all the previous Bonds, Sir Rog especially.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    That's definitely a possibility.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 267
    These are my thoughts on these leaked spoilers:
    The first half sounds cool but I'm not liking the last half. I'm interested to learn about this Irma character (if it's been carried over to the final draft) as this character is obviously not Lucia Sciarra or Madeleine and theres been no other female casting announcements so I'm guessing the role has been cut. My problem with this "leaked draft" I've read is that it doesn't feel like a Bond film and is way too over complicated. They need to completely get rid of the idea of the villain being any sort of relation to Bond as I feel like this will be taking the piss. There's "this time it's personal" then theres "f**king up a whole franchise with one character" in my opinion. I'm begging we don't get the actual film's ending that was written. I really don't like it.

    Overall, I'm not surprised the script took so long to get right. Do we know if this was Logan's draft or were Purvis and Wade on at this point?
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Let's just say Logan created a colossal eff up that required serious remedying.

    When it was announced that Purvis and Wade were begged to come back and fix things, I thought it was an exaggeration but I can definitely see that a miracle was expected from the duo because Logan was clearly in a different state of mind.

    As for
    Irma
    Maybe it's
    Froggat if she's even still in this movie.
  • doubleoego wrote: »
    As for
    Irma
    Maybe it's
    Froggat if she's even still in this movie.
    I think Froggat was just considered for the part of Madeleine. I could be wrong but that makes the most sense to me.
  • Posts: 4,619
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Let's just say Logan created a colossal eff up that required serious remedying.

    Exactly. It really looks like Purvis and Wade saved the script.
  • About the content of earlier drafts, even earlier than those in the leaks
    AdaShelby wrote: »
    Overall, I'm not surprised the script took so long to get right. Do we know if this was Logan's draft or were Purvis and Wade on at this point?

    Well, there was a major change because of something that money couldn't buy :
    IIRC, Ralph Fiennes refused to play a bad guy. It's reported Mendes tried to made him change his mind about it, and that he was offered "all the money he wanted", but he refused. So Logan probably wrote at some point a script that looked like Gladiator + Mission:Impossible the 1st movie. I mean : M as a traitor ! - Somehow, it would have make SF far more part of the quadrilogy than it seems to be now, according to the leak : Had Fiennes accepted, SF would have been the movie were a bad M arrive at the helm of MI6 thank to the Silva plan, masterminded by Waltz's character, etc. But no, and then they had to change a lot of things...

    And about the changes from the available draft to what they are filming :
    Irma not casted yet may mean that she disappears from the script. One possibility - a wild hypothesis, not an info from the leak - is that Hinx could have his role expanded, given the casting of Bautista, who knows ? It looks anyway as if the third act could change A LOT given what they report in the mail (in particular, IIRC, one big set that is in the leaked script has been cut for budget reasons)
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 267
    The law is so boring.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited December 2014 Posts: 2,138
    Hi you do realise posting any content from the leaked script also makes you culpabale in law. You dont need to have been the one to have stolen or have written the article. the copyright breach extends to publicy sharing intellectual and material property without consent AON could file a law suit against you. I would warn anyone to consider this before posting extracts of the leaked material.

    I am a copyright lawyer by profession your taking big risks sharing any extracts of the material. AON will be looking to set a precident and its easier to go after the little people.
  • Posts: 4,619
    I would warn anyone to consider this before posting extracts of the leaked material.

    They haven't posted extracts of the leaked material...
  • I would warn anyone to consider this before posting extracts of the leaked material.

    They haven't posted extracts of the leaked material...

    I posted quotes from an article that let out details from the script and gave my opinion on what should be cut on what shouldn't.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,622
    One of the most interesting things I have read so far is that in an early John Logan draft Blofeld was an ugly lesbian... (and Tilda Swinton was considered for the role by some people)
    I was worried there for a while, based on what I was reading, that Bellucci was being cast as Irma Bunt, which of course does not make Bellucci suddenly a toad, but it did seem ridiculous to associate such a beauty with that hideous Fleming creation. Subsequent material (gawker story) suggests that Stockmann's lesbian assistant, or associate or whatever she is, is in fact Irma Bunt, which fits, as Stockmann is Oberhauser, who still might be Blofeld, although that is no longer for sure, not that anything really is.
    Bunt takes a liking to Madeleine Swann, the good Bond girl, who it seems, might be Mr. White's daughter. Get it? White and white swan. So clever.
    Bellucci it seems is bad Bond girl, even if she isn't Bunt. I think I have this right. :-/
    Am I the only one who thinks the leaks might affect, in some way, SPECTRE for the better?
    By checking on how the Bond fans on the internet responds, EON could make changes in the script that would ultimately improve the final product..

    If that's the case then, DON'T KILL BLOFELD!!!! keep him as recurring nemesis.

    Kill Waltz as Oberhauser if need be. No problem there, but then don't reveal him as Blofeld!!

    There I feel much better. Empowered even. Worst thing about this story, for me, is that Blofeld and Spectre, might be wasted as a one-off adventure.
    It could still happen, of course, in which case I will champion organized revolt, after the film is released, ie when we know for sure. Harrumph! [-(



  • In regards to the legal situation:

    I'm under the impression that once the information is published on the internet it is public. Therefore any person downloading a torrent for example of say Sony exec emails is not culpable. However, the person who made the torrent and uploaded it for others is the guilty party.

    Right?
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