SPECTRE Leaks Discussion (allowed on ONLY this thread) MAJOR PLOTLINE SPOILERS!

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  • Posts: 4,619
    @scouse007 Sam Mendes definitely is an auteur (the first in the series).
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited December 2014 Posts: 4,587
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    I'm worried ..my same worries that the script and film went the wrong direction. Billion dollar Bond sounds great but if this one bombs then what happens? Studio exes whom lest we forget MGM owns half of Bond thanks to Harry Swaltzman(sp) selling his part to them can't justify more or afford more... I don't know. I was never happy with Logan and they just missed the while point from the start...

    Or and I hope they caught that and corrected with the rewrites... all like the script and despite what's floating around filming started with with an agreed upon script. I remember both Craig and Mendes liking this script more.

    Now third thing what if they do but we fans and general public don't buy it? Why o why did they start with Logan!!

    Indeed, I think we should reserve judgment. The leaked emails gave us a "behind-the-scenes" peek at what usually goes on in the development of a film--even classics like Jaws had development issues. Heck, I would bet that similar emails and critiques took place for SF and CR. (Let's not forget: Jez Butterworth was brought in to jazz up the SF script, as well.)

    As you mention, Craig does like the script:
    http://www.nme.com/filmandtv/news/daniel-craig-new-bond-film-spectre-has-a-better-sc/365225

    Let's not hit the panic button, folks.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    antovolk wrote: »

    @risico007
    the emails are making a way bigger deal about the get a life line (which isn't apparently said verbatim) than it is, same goes for ending which apparently isn't as a downer than everyone thinks it is

    how are you so sure?
  • Posts: 3,164
    doubleoego wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »

    @risico007
    the emails are making a way bigger deal about the get a life line (which isn't apparently said verbatim) than it is, same goes for ending which apparently isn't as a downer than everyone thinks it is

    how are you so sure?

    Bits and pieces I've heard regarding the leak
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Ok cool.

    Anyway, regarding other speculation which for me was a very serious issue was, tge hand to hand fights in SF were terrible.

    Luckily I anticipate and expect for SPECTRE to be the most violent, visceral and aggressive movie not just in the Craig era but in the entire series.
    we have 2 new guys in charge of the fight choreography; choreographer and fight ads is tan, Olivier Schneider and Yves Girard respectively who were responsible for the fights in such films as Taken, fast 6, Unknown and Safe house; movies which imo offer more thrilling and kinetic fight scenes than any Bond movie to date and with these guys working on SPECTRE, I have a lot to be happy about especially after I was so dissatisfied with the fight offerings of SF.
  • @scouse007 Sam Mendes definitely is an auteur (the first in the series).

    Mendes is a director the likes of Nolan, Tarantino and JJ Abrams our auteurs whose films have there own identity. The issue is they want another SF. I would forget about it and if you need to tie up the previous three films then do so. Nolan for example has a hit film and then forgets about it and makes the next film a hit. Thus, he has moved on from Batman. So move on from SF and if what we read is true sort he screenplay out, as they have been working on it for nearly two years. Most screenplays take up to seven months to write and most studios use the Heroes Journey, Sydney Field or Save The Cat Model to writing a screenplay. So can't see what the problem is.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Mendes has been adamant that he had/has no interest in making another SF and based on what we do know irrespective of the leaks that can't be fully relied upon as to what will or won't happen, SPECTRE already looks and feels like a very different movie to SF. Obviously there will be a few similarities which goes without saying as it's a James Bond film and some elements from SF will be deepened but other than that SPECTRE is largely a very different film to SF.

    Furthermore someone mentioned that this could be Craig's last because of his age...I don't think so. He's only 46 and looks younger than he dud 2 years ago not to mention his look has a settled appearance meaning he can look noticeably the same for quite a few years to come. Also, I know Moore looked young for his age but in terms of physical fitness he's never been in Craig's league and he was 45 when he did his first movie out of his total 7. Brosnan was 49 by the time DAD came out and people here and all over the world were sure he'd do a 5th and were dismayed when the role was recast. He would have been in his early 50s had he done a 5th. Then there's Tom Cruise who is 51 and is filming mission impossible......and the big one; we have a 50 year old Bond girl! If a Bond girl can be cast at 50 do you think a 50 year old Bond is out of the question? Of course not, it only cements and advocates Craig not only doing his contracted 5th but a possible 6th from the perspective of age.

    Lastly, the 2 film arc Logan proposed was debunked ages ago, I think we already knew this towards the beginning of the year or late last year and Craig's 5 film contract was still known to be in place so there's that to consider too.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I've read the spoilers (couldn't help it) and I agree it looks interesting and if done right could be very special indeed but what I don't get is that
    EON finally get the rights to both the Spectre and Bond's most famous nemesis and then according to the plot of this spank it on showing all Craig's films are linked (I don't have a problem with this) but also kill it off and Blofeld

    I'm wondering if some these drafts have been radically changed or maybe not.
    If this is Craig's last film then I guess the way it's playing out according to this leak then they might be rebooting once again.


    This is not what I thought we were getting with Spectre, I would of thought introducing the organisation and possibly Blofeld (also this seems a given now) in order to give the series something continuing to use. Maybe not all the time just dipping in and out Spectre like they did with Connery's tenure.

    I've seen the broad outline of this and know how it's supposed to end but not the detail some seem to have but I have to say a small amount of disappointment that this acquisition is to be all spent in one film.

    Unless Craig agreed after Mendes said no 2 film film arc that he would sign off on Bond 24 and then they'd reboot able to tackle the Spectre element in a new universe, Mendes effectively doing with Bond what Nolan did with Batman.

    EON would start again after this more experimental phase and settle into a more traditional route with the series and new actor in the role, maybe BB & MGW are proud of the Craig era but agree that they can't continue in this time line and has a thank you to Daniel for all he's bought to the series give him a proper sign off as the character.

    I'm not saying I like it but it seems possible, unless they've used some of the leaks linked to the Korean threat and now started leaking stuff themselves in an order to misdirect those who can't but help hunt this stuff down. This all sounds far too elaborate but possibly they have something new that hasn't leaked and are just letting older drafts and stuff that has just been made up to leak in order to keep the plot under wraps. I know it's wishful thinking and knowing Mendes approach as seen in Skyfall I can see most of what has been revealed to be likely true.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    I like your thinking on this @Shardlake.

    Having read some of the speculation myself, I too believe that Craig will not likely return for B25 unless Mendes is back. He had a big influence on EON choosing Forster for QoS and also Mendes for SF. He had no influence on EON's selection of Campbell in CR (ironically CR is his best performance to date IMO and his best film also).

    So I think he's wed to Mendes (since Forster did not work out all that well). I don't think he'd want to go back to a journeyman director or a newbie for his swansong in B25, if Mendes does not return. So if I were him, it makes sense to call it a day and go out on a high in SPECTRE.

    Also, this give EON cover, as you surmise, so that they can then go back to making regular Bond movies in the future, post Craig. I have a feeling we may not actually see Blofeld in SP. He's going to be left for future Bond movies (and possible future Bond actors) to tackle in later installments. There could be a redherring leader of SPECTRE in SP and a surprise revelation that all is not as it seems at the end.

    Also, I believe SP is the end of Sony's distribution rights on the franchise (not sure) and given this leak fiasco, EON may go elsewhere, since heads are likely to role at Sony (namely Amy Pascal). So B25 may be a new deal all around.

    Having said that, if SP is a massive moneymaking success, I'm sure Craig & Mendes will definitely be back for B25. Money talks.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    The only problem with them leaking themselves is all this leak business isn't exactly giving them good press so it would cancel out this theory. Slagging off the script and supposedly studio heads ridiculing part of it. Not exactly what you call good publicity and if it continues to get bad press it could persuade some (people are very fickle and bad news always spreads more than good) to stay away.

    I know some films have done well which have initially being dismissed due to production issues (Titanic most notably) but we live in a different world to when that was released and the internet is rife with stuff everyday, you only need for this to continue and it will start to stick and it only takes a few people to say this new Bond flick sound crap and word will spread.

    I don't see this situation as good at all and although it's publicity I can't see it helping the production or the finished product. We are but a small element that will read between the lines and see through the BS but the average person in the street and more people see this stuff than you probably realise are only going to see the new Bond film is in big trouble and if that catches on the box office will be affected.

    I know some of us say I'm not bothered about profits and grosses but if this film flops especially with the reported budget that Spectre has it will have a hugely detrimental effect on the series, I'm incredibly concerned.

    I hope I'm just getting over dramatic with my assessment but I've a feeling I'm not, we've not seen this amount of bad will before especially when the film only started production on Monday.
  • Posts: 183
    Doesn't it mention something about Bond on a rogue mission at the beginning? Hope this is properly explained as it looked at the end of Skyfall like we were set for him to be on a "regular" mission. As it sounds like Spectre will be digging around in Bond's past again, which I personally don't mind, I was at least hoping that a part of the film, even if only the PTS, was him on a regular, serving your country type mission
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited December 2014 Posts: 11,139
    It was made clear even by February of 2013 that plans for a 2 parter was not going to happen and this was before Mendes signed on and Craig's 2 film contract post skyfall was already in place....which was even after Craig made a sensible and compelling argument in the November of 2012 that a 2 parter wasn't going to happen.

    Money isn't the issue here. Bond will always make big money, it always has and after the financial success of SF if Mendes was still not willing to return to direct Bond 24 (at that time) then clearly, this isn't some sort of Damon/Greengrass pact going on here. Bond is bigger than Craig and Mendes and Mendes isn't the only director in town. With changes like casting a 50 year old Bond girl, God only knows what other traditions may change in hiring a director. What has been revealed in the leaks clearly isn't a concrete proof on how the movie will play out and end, what is clear is, everybody involved in the process of making this movie are pleased and leaks aside, things are looking good. However, I stand by my belief that Craig will return for Bond 25 and I'm willing to take bets.
  • Posts: 3,164
    Trigger wrote: »
    Doesn't it mention something about Bond on a rogue mission at the beginning? Hope this is properly explained as it looked at the end of Skyfall like we were set for him to be on a "regular" mission. As it sounds like Spectre will be digging around in Bond's past again, which I personally don't mind, I was at least hoping that a part of the film, even if only the PTS, was him on a regular, serving your country type mission
    could of course be at first what seems like a real mission which is only in the aftermath revealed as sort of rogue? Just a thought :P

  • edited December 2014 Posts: 1,778
    He signed on for Bond 25 back when Logan was writing the script. It was originally meant to be a two part story but that changed once Mendes came onboard. They could have renegotiated Craig's contract after this.

    Waltz's character is referred to as Blofeld in the leaked emails. And Obenhauser seems to be the leader of SPECTRE since he's apparently behind the events of CR, QoS and SF. So I'm pretty sure he's Blofeld.

    Even if their plans have changed in regards to SP and Bond 25 I highly doubt Craig would have renegotiated his contract to make one less movie and thusly leaving millions of dollars on the table. In recent years it seems like Craig has relished in being Bond more and more. He hasn't really even played anyone else since 2011. I believe the supposed ending of SP will be a red herring and Craig's Bond will be needed back for Bond 25.

    And even if Mendes doesn't return for Bond 25 there are plenty of excellent and high profile directors who've expressed interest in helming a Bond film.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    And even if Mendes doesn't return for Bond 25 there are plenty of over excellent and high profile directors who've expressed interest in helping a Bond film.

    Marc Forster said he'd be open to coming back one day. Just not right away.

    What's Nolan up to? They've talked to him for sure. I think that was confirmed recently.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    If Spectre merge with Qauntum would that make them Spectrum? LOL
  • leas_moleleas_mole love is the promise of suffering
    Posts: 574
    If Spectre merge with Qauntum would that make them Spectrum? LOL
    Spectre means Spectrum in French!

  • Posts: 725
    Craig has been critical to the success of the last three films and he was the one who got Mendes to direct SF. Craig could possibly get his pal Speilberg to direct Bond 25 as I don't see Mendes as critical to Bond 25 at all. Another experienced director is far easier to change off than to find the right new Bond. If SP is not a big hit, Craig will likely bow out and you can bet Sony will also not be a factor after the hell the hack has put them through. Hit or miss, Craig may also just be fed up, and ready to go back to smaller films. He has already been the target of phone hacks in the British press. Given what Jolie and Jennifer Lawrence have been through, Craig has been lucky.....so far.

    All big film projects go thru script development hell, but none of them have had to read about it in leaked private emails with all kinds of ignorant or dated remarks that the press can exploit. They are lucky they just started shooting and have the flexibility to change some of the script. Think how horrible it would have been if the film had already just been shot, with more leaked emails bitching about completed scenes, and horror of horrors, the unreleased film could also be leaked, like Anne just was.

    I think we're all hoping that if the film is good, none of this mess will matter much, but you can bet books will be written about this hack, and Spectre's unwilling part in the mess.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I know a 2 part arc isn't going to happen and have known it as long as everyone here most likely.

    As I said maybe I'm over egging my worries and a lot of this is news networks leaking stuff out of context, those who have seen or claimed to have seen the screenplay (whatever version this is) seem to be more optimistic about this than these stories posted about film execs criticising the script.

    The fact that Blofeld is not getting mentioned and only Sony is referring to the character as that is interesting and now a character well known to the series has been mentioned as part of the script that according to the poster should please a good number of us.

    I'm all for a modern updating of Blofeld
    but just using him to link all Craig's films together in one film and kill him off seems like a waste but what do I know?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited December 2014 Posts: 24,220
    Title changed so as to leave absolutely no doubt as to the content of his thread.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 6,432
    Oh dear wish I did not click on this thread, avoiding from now on. Deleting from memory. X_X
  • TripAces wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    I'm worried ..my same worries that the script and film went the wrong direction. Billion dollar Bond sounds great but if this one bombs then what happens? Studio exes whom lest we forget MGM owns half of Bond thanks to Harry Swaltzman(sp) selling his part to them can't justify more or afford more... I don't know. I was never happy with Logan and they just missed the while point from the start...

    Or and I hope they caught that and corrected with the rewrites... all like the script and despite what's floating around filming started with with an agreed upon script. I remember both Craig and Mendes liking this script more.

    Now third thing what if they do but we fans and general public don't buy it? Why o why did they start with Logan!!

    Indeed, I think we should reserve judgment. The leaked emails gave us a "behind-the-scenes" peek at what usually goes on in the development of a film--even classics like Jaws had development issues. Heck, I would bet that similar emails and critiques took place for SF and CR. (Let's not forget: Jez Butterworth was brought in to jazz up the SF script, as well.)

    As you mention, Craig does like the script:
    http://www.nme.com/filmandtv/news/daniel-craig-new-bond-film-spectre-has-a-better-sc/365225

    Let's not hit the panic button, folks.

    I'm not hitting the panic button. But I also remember Craig said Quantum was just fine in 2008. Three years later, he talked about how he and Forster had to "write" the film as they filmed.
  • Why 007 fans should care about the Sony hacking beyond SPECTRE spoilers:

    https://hmssweblog.wordpress.com/2014/12/12/sony-watch-is-007-friendly-execs-position-imperiled/

    No spoilers in post.

    Did anyone actually read this article? It shows how I think about all this.

  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited December 2014 Posts: 1,261
    One good thing: The "lesbian bad lady" from the film referred to in this Vulture item appears to have been somewhat toned down—this scene is the only one in which the character, Stockmann's henchwoman Irma Bunt, demonstrates a hint of queerness...
    Did I miss something? Irma Bunt?


    Apart from that, the only surprising thing about this leaks is, that not some insiders leaked that, but that the hackers actually got to the notes and mails of studio execs. But then, as somebody said, in today's media world, it will be really difficult to avoid confidential news safe.
  • Posts: 725
    This is not like Harry Potter or other books that are praised by critics and that movie goers want to see how they get translated to film. What is so destructive about these leaks is that the malicious script and budget stuff is coming directly from MGM and SONY's self important, and very possibly dead wrong, exec's. Their negative email bitching is now being gleefully exploited and exagerated by the press, even if much of the comments relate to changed or dropped scenes or a budget that may already be getting cut.

    The nastier gossip types like the Daily Mail have been out for Craig since he sued them years ago and so this is red meat to them. There have been plenty of huge budgets just as big or bigger than Spectre but the studios lie about them and are able to hide them. The budget has likely already been scaled back, but the press is never going to note that. It will always be the $300m Bond and that is a dangerous phrase to hang around any films neck.

    So due to the hack, Spectre literally has been knifed in the back by MGM and Sony, it's own studios. The irony of it is horrible. and it must make EON, Mendes and Craig livid. They saved MGM's bacon, and this is their payback. In fact some of the worst email leaks come from the MGM head whose salary and life style has no doubt been paid for by Bond profits. They must want to strangle the guy, but Pascal will likely be the first to get canned and she has always been a big Bond and EON supporter.
  • Posts: 4,619
    I am currently reading the notes discussing the script development of the movie. All I can say is: WOW. Somebody will write a great book based on these leaks some day...
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited December 2014 Posts: 4,587
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Furthermore someone mentioned that this could be Craig's last because of his age...I don't think so. He's only 46 and looks younger than he dud 2 years ago not to mention his look has a settled appearance meaning he can look noticeably the same for quite a few years to come. Also, I know Moore looked young for his age but in terms of physical fitness he's never been in Craig's league and he was 45 when he did his first movie out of his total 7. Brosnan was 49 by the time DAD came out and people here and all over the world were sure he'd do a 5th and were dismayed when the role was recast. He would have been in his early 50s had he done a 5th. Then there's Tom Cruise who is 51 and is filming mission impossible......and the big one; we have a 50 year old Bond girl! If a Bond girl can be cast at 50 do you think a 50 year old Bond is out of the question? Of course not, it only cements and advocates Craig not only doing his contracted 5th but a possible 6th from the perspective of age.

    But did Moore and Brosnan do their own stunts at that age? No. Of course, I am just speculating, but I don't think Craig will continue if he doesn't think he can do the films right: which is doing most of his own stunts.

    On a separate note: how much of the poor third act is attributed to Logan working on the script several months before EON even got the rights to the Blofeld character? I can imagine Logan having a early draft with an original villain, and then EON instructs him to put Blofeld into it. So he has to dig the thing up, creating a mish-mash of ideas.
  • Isn't Daniel Craig under contract for Bond 25? Why is there speculation that this is his final film a.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    TripAces wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Furthermore someone mentioned that this could be Craig's last because of his age...I don't think so. He's only 46 and looks younger than he dud 2 years ago not to mention his look has a settled appearance meaning he can look noticeably the same for quite a few years to come. Also, I know Moore looked young for his age but in terms of physical fitness he's never been in Craig's league and he was 45 when he did his first movie out of his total 7. Brosnan was 49 by the time DAD came out and people here and all over the world were sure he'd do a 5th and were dismayed when the role was recast. He would have been in his early 50s had he done a 5th. Then there's Tom Cruise who is 51 and is filming mission impossible......and the big one; we have a 50 year old Bond girl! If a Bond girl can be cast at 50 do you think a 50 year old Bond is out of the question? Of course not, it only cements and advocates Craig not only doing his contracted 5th but a possible 6th from the perspective of age.

    But did Moore and Brosnan do their own stunts at that age? No. Of course, I am just speculating, but I don't think Craig will continue if he doesn't think he can do the films right: which is doing most of his own stunts.

    Moore and Brosnan were not and never have been in the same league as Craig when it comes to physical fitness and like I mentioned, Moore was in the role beyond 50 and had Brosnan done his 5th he would have been at least 51 or 52 by the earliest release of his 5th movie. Tom Cruise as I mentioned is 52 and the man is doing impressively crazy crazy stuff. Lastly, with a role and movie series that Craig has shown proactive dedication to, become fittingly confident in and has much respect for the craft, not to mention if the stories are great, the talent top notch and the money being right; to hinge it all on whether or not he can do most of his own stunts is silly.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Isn't Daniel Craig under contract for Bond 25? Why is there speculation that this is his final film a.

    He is but people are getting overzealous and carried away, making assumptions based on a lack of concrete evidence.
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