"Don't worry, I'll tell the chef ": Thunderball Appreciation & Discussion

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,965
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree @Pierce2Daniel, it's a wonderful looking film. I've mentioned this previously elsewhere, but this became one of my favourite Bond films quite suddenly when I was a teenager studying for GCSE's and under some pre-exam stress. One cold, dreary London night I recall putting my dad's VHS copy in the player and was immediately transported away to this exotic location with all these beautiful women and charismatic characters. I remember thinking Connery was just too cool and wanted to be like him. Afterwards I felt like I'd had a holiday myself and that positive feeling has sort of stayed with me ever since whenever I view this film.

    Forgot the "holiday aspect" of TB in my comment, @bondjames! The beautiful scenery certainly makes you feel like you've been on a (very) short holiday to a exotic location. Although many Bond films find him in similarly exotic locations, few of the films equals TB to really make you feel it in the same way – if that makes sense.

    TB is really just a great exploration of the escapism of the Bond series.
    It definitely makes sense @Torgeirtrap. I think TB is unique in that respect too. Connery and Auger looking the way they do in their casual gear also adds to that feeling.

    Definitely! The first scene to come to mind re. casual gear for me, is the scene where Bond kills Vargas with the spear gun, while laying casually on the beach next to Domino. Great scene.

    184.jpg
    That's a fantastic scene. It never gets old. Also the one where they come ashore and walk through the beach comes to mind among others. It has a certain casualness combined with panache throughout, which is an unusual combination to get right.

    That's another great example!
    I hope to one day visit the Bahamas, and I wonder how much it's changed since TB (a lot one would imagine, given the age of the film). It would be great to seek out some of the filming locations too.
    I've never been either. It's on my list as are many Bond locations including New Orleans (preferably during Mardi Gras).
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree @Pierce2Daniel, it's a wonderful looking film. I've mentioned this previously elsewhere, but this became one of my favourite Bond films quite suddenly when I was a teenager studying for GCSE's and under some pre-exam stress. One cold, dreary London night I recall putting my dad's VHS copy in the player and was immediately transported away to this exotic location with all these beautiful women and charismatic characters. I remember thinking Connery was just too cool and wanted to be like him. Afterwards I felt like I'd had a holiday myself and that positive feeling has sort of stayed with me ever since whenever I view this film.

    Forgot the "holiday aspect" of TB in my comment, @bondjames! The beautiful scenery certainly makes you feel like you've been on a (very) short holiday to a exotic location. Although many Bond films find him in similarly exotic locations, few of the films equals TB to really make you feel it in the same way – if that makes sense.

    TB is really just a great exploration of the escapism of the Bond series.
    It definitely makes sense @Torgeirtrap. I think TB is unique in that respect too. Connery and Auger looking the way they do in their casual gear also adds to that feeling.

    Definitely! The first scene to come to mind re. casual gear for me, is the scene where Bond kills Vargas with the spear gun, while laying casually on the beach next to Domino. Great scene.

    184.jpg
    That's a fantastic scene. It never gets old. Also the one where they come ashore and walk through the beach comes to mind among others. It has a certain casualness combined with panache throughout, which is an unusual combination to get right.

    I couldn't agree more.

    That was the world of Bond that was created by Terence Young.

    There was a casualness to the sense of luxury, opulence, glamour and sex. There was nothing forced or conceited about it. It never felt stagy or hammy. It had a loose organic feel.

    It welcomed the audience in - never once letting the audience feel as if they were impostors or unwelcome in the splendour of the world. I feel part of this came from the casting of Connery - had someone like Grant, Niven or Moore played the part in TB - they'd accentuate the otherworldliness of it.

    Connery had charm and charisma - but it was marred with a sense of physicality and menace. He was all things to all audience members. Both aspirational and achievable.
    Well put. You're probably right about Grant, Moore or Niven vs. Connery. They didn't have the ruggedness he so readily possessed (when combined with his grace, it was unbeatable). Having said that, I'm wondering if you've seen To Catch A Thief? It's one of my favourite films and there is a sequence in that film set in Cannes with Grant, Grace Kelly and Brigitte Auber which very much reminds me of the Domino intro sequence in TB. It has that same flair to it, but is a bit more posh in that 50's way.

    I have indeed seen it. Recently in fact.

    Hitchcock's style in To Catch A Thief is very present in TB. That sense sense of European wealth and sophistication - mingled with danger and intrigue.

    However, I always feel that Hitchock's style in that film is more elegant and poised. Bond in comparison, is slightly more salacious and scrappy. It's more overtly aware of it's own sexual potency. I don't just mean the women - Sean Connery is equally fetishised throughout the film.
    Yes, I very much agree about the elegance and poise. That's what I was getting at with the poshness remark. It's more 50's in that way. Slightly more old fashioned and regal, which is better suited to Grant and Kelly's sensibilities. TB is more modern. I agree on the Connery fetishism too. I certainly was guilty of thinking he was 'the man' as a kid, and I still do to a degree.

    tbh it's one of the things I like in his portrayal in TB the most. He's got a sense of urgency, duty and efficiency here, whilst still enjoying the setting. For me this is the most Bondian Connery possible.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree @Pierce2Daniel, it's a wonderful looking film. I've mentioned this previously elsewhere, but this became one of my favourite Bond films quite suddenly when I was a teenager studying for GCSE's and under some pre-exam stress. One cold, dreary London night I recall putting my dad's VHS copy in the player and was immediately transported away to this exotic location with all these beautiful women and charismatic characters. I remember thinking Connery was just too cool and wanted to be like him. Afterwards I felt like I'd had a holiday myself and that positive feeling has sort of stayed with me ever since whenever I view this film.

    Forgot the "holiday aspect" of TB in my comment, @bondjames! The beautiful scenery certainly makes you feel like you've been on a (very) short holiday to a exotic location. Although many Bond films find him in similarly exotic locations, few of the films equals TB to really make you feel it in the same way – if that makes sense.

    TB is really just a great exploration of the escapism of the Bond series.
    It definitely makes sense @Torgeirtrap. I think TB is unique in that respect too. Connery and Auger looking the way they do in their casual gear also adds to that feeling.

    Definitely! The first scene to come to mind re. casual gear for me, is the scene where Bond kills Vargas with the spear gun, while laying casually on the beach next to Domino. Great scene.

    184.jpg
    That's a fantastic scene. It never gets old. Also the one where they come ashore and walk through the beach comes to mind among others. It has a certain casualness combined with panache throughout, which is an unusual combination to get right.

    That's another great example!
    I hope to one day visit the Bahamas, and I wonder how much it's changed since TB (a lot one would imagine, given the age of the film). It would be great to seek out some of the filming locations too.
    I've never been either. It's on my list as are many Bond locations including New Orleans (preferably during Mardi Gras).
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree @Pierce2Daniel, it's a wonderful looking film. I've mentioned this previously elsewhere, but this became one of my favourite Bond films quite suddenly when I was a teenager studying for GCSE's and under some pre-exam stress. One cold, dreary London night I recall putting my dad's VHS copy in the player and was immediately transported away to this exotic location with all these beautiful women and charismatic characters. I remember thinking Connery was just too cool and wanted to be like him. Afterwards I felt like I'd had a holiday myself and that positive feeling has sort of stayed with me ever since whenever I view this film.

    Forgot the "holiday aspect" of TB in my comment, @bondjames! The beautiful scenery certainly makes you feel like you've been on a (very) short holiday to a exotic location. Although many Bond films find him in similarly exotic locations, few of the films equals TB to really make you feel it in the same way – if that makes sense.

    TB is really just a great exploration of the escapism of the Bond series.
    It definitely makes sense @Torgeirtrap. I think TB is unique in that respect too. Connery and Auger looking the way they do in their casual gear also adds to that feeling.

    Definitely! The first scene to come to mind re. casual gear for me, is the scene where Bond kills Vargas with the spear gun, while laying casually on the beach next to Domino. Great scene.

    184.jpg
    That's a fantastic scene. It never gets old. Also the one where they come ashore and walk through the beach comes to mind among others. It has a certain casualness combined with panache throughout, which is an unusual combination to get right.

    I couldn't agree more.

    That was the world of Bond that was created by Terence Young.

    There was a casualness to the sense of luxury, opulence, glamour and sex. There was nothing forced or conceited about it. It never felt stagy or hammy. It had a loose organic feel.

    It welcomed the audience in - never once letting the audience feel as if they were impostors or unwelcome in the splendour of the world. I feel part of this came from the casting of Connery - had someone like Grant, Niven or Moore played the part in TB - they'd accentuate the otherworldliness of it.

    Connery had charm and charisma - but it was marred with a sense of physicality and menace. He was all things to all audience members. Both aspirational and achievable.
    Well put. You're probably right about Grant, Moore or Niven vs. Connery. They didn't have the ruggedness he so readily possessed (when combined with his grace, it was unbeatable). Having said that, I'm wondering if you've seen To Catch A Thief? It's one of my favourite films and there is a sequence in that film set in Cannes with Grant, Grace Kelly and Brigitte Auber which very much reminds me of the Domino intro sequence in TB. It has that same flair to it, but is a bit more posh in that 50's way.

    I have indeed seen it. Recently in fact.

    Hitchcock's style in To Catch A Thief is very present in TB. That sense sense of European wealth and sophistication - mingled with danger and intrigue.

    However, I always feel that Hitchock's style in that film is more elegant and poised. Bond in comparison, is slightly more salacious and scrappy. It's more overtly aware of it's own sexual potency. I don't just mean the women - Sean Connery is equally fetishised throughout the film.
    Yes, I very much agree about the elegance and poise. That's what I was getting at with the poshness remark. It's more 50's in that way. Slightly more old fashioned and regal, which is better suited to Grant and Kelly's sensibilities. TB is more modern. I agree on the Connery fetishism too. I certainly was guilty of thinking he was 'the man' as a kid, and I still do to a degree.

    tbh it's one of the things I like in his portrayal in TB the most. He's got a sense of urgency, duty and efficiency here, whilst still enjoying the setting. For me this is the most Bondian Connery possible.

    The sense of urgency never really came through for me.

    Despite being 'on the clock' with Spectre's demands, Bond is moving at a fairly leisurely pace. The sense of immediacy and peril was better demonstrated in YOLT.

    This is really my main issue with the actual plot of TB - Bond arrives in Nassau and spends an hour just meandering around the island and mildly provoking Largo. We know Largo has the bombs but it takes Bond ages to catch-up. Instead of trying to throw Bond off - Largo just gives him more impetus to query him. A momentum that Bond doesn't really capitalise on till late in the picture.

    Do we agree with any of the criticisms raised in this video? I kinda hate these videos, but they do occasionally make a valid point.

  • Posts: 14,816
    I wonder how else was Bond supposed to investigate while keeping his cover.

    Pat Fearing is one of the elements of TB that doesn't receive enough praise. She's a minor Bond girl of course but that's partially why I love her so much. Somebody foreign and oblivious to Bond's world. And she's a naughty nurse as well!
  • Ludovico wrote: »
    I wonder how else was Bond supposed to investigate while keeping his cover.

    Pat Fearing is one of the elements of TB that doesn't receive enough praise. She's a minor Bond girl of course but that's partially why I love her so much. Somebody foreign and oblivious to Bond's world. And she's a naughty nurse as well!

    Really?

    for me the whole Scrublands part of the film is hideously cringeworthy. It really ruins a lot of the momentum. Plus, Bond is at his creepiest during that whole segment with the nurse. The south of England just isn't that exciting a locale as well. The hazing with Count Lippe is monotonous and dull.

    The only reason it's in the film is to establish the death of Francoise Derval.

    Personally, I think NSNA made much smarter choices when incorporating the health clinic into the film. There was a much more subversive and clever idea at work there.

    TB feels terribly dated with those scenes - otherwise, I genuinely feel the movie could go head to head with any major blockbuster today in regards to spectacle.
  • edited January 2019 Posts: 14,816
    Really. I love the cat and mouse game set in a quaint English location. It works beautifully. It is a nice contrast with the Bahamas as well.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Really. I love the cat and mouse game set in a quaint English location. It works beautifully. It is a nice contrast with the Bahamas as well.
    I love the Shrublands section too. In both TB & NSNA actually. Very mysterious snooping about with a bit of humour, danger and obligatory Bondian nooky thrown in. I'm with you on Pat as well. Who doesn't love those kind of nurses.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Really. I love the cat and mouse game set in a quaint English location. It works beautifully. It is a nice contrast with the Bahamas as well.
    I love the Shrublands section too. In both TB & NSNA actually. Very mysterious snooping about with a bit of humour, danger and obligatory Bondian nooky thrown in. I'm with you on Pat as well. Who doesn't love those kind of nurses.

    In a film that runs for 130 minutes, it’s somewhat appalling that it takes 45 minutes till the actual plot mechanisms come into well.

    Schrublands is a pleasant excursion but it’s wholly unessesary and slows it down. The fact the film adds stupid elements like the naughty nurse and the rack table just a adds more inconsequential time to the plot.

    It’s just bad screenwriting in a thriller to have such a slow and uninvolving element.

    Though, it may be worth it just to see how good Connery looks and dresses in some of those scenes:

    Thunderball-Shrublands-Polo.jpg

    Thunderball-Shrublands-Polo-2.jpg
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Really. I love the cat and mouse game set in a quaint English location. It works beautifully. It is a nice contrast with the Bahamas as well.
    I love the Shrublands section too. In both TB & NSNA actually. Very mysterious snooping about with a bit of humour, danger and obligatory Bondian nooky thrown in. I'm with you on Pat as well. Who doesn't love those kind of nurses.

    In a film that runs for 130 minutes, it’s somewhat appalling that it takes 45 minutes till the actual plot mechanisms come into well.

    Schrublands is a pleasant excursion but it’s wholly unessesary and slows it down. The fact the film adds stupid elements like the naughty nurse and the rack table just a adds more inconsequential time to the plot.

    It’s just bad screenwriting in a thriller to have such a slow and uninvolving element.

    Though, it may be worth it just to see how good Connery looks and dresses in some of those scenes:

    Thunderball-Shrublands-Polo.jpg

    Thunderball-Shrublands-Polo-2.jpg
    I get your point, but I feel it does the opposite in this instance. I think it grounds the film (both TB & NSNA) and gives it a mysterious element. Barry's score adds to that in TB & Fatima adds to it in NSNA. It's an opportunity for Bond to be Bond, doing what he does best (tick off a villain, enjoy female company and discover something about the scheme). I agree on the pacing thing, but then again it works in TB because the film has a leisurely way about it throughout.

    I'm more unforgiving about the later section of the film after Bond kills Vargas. That's where I sort of lose interest, during all those underwater sequences without any talking. I think NSNA does a far better job during the finale.
  • Posts: 14,816
    I also think Shrubland grounds the film. And it's nice having Bond being an actual secret agent, something that often gets lost in the more large scale, action oriented ones.
  • Posts: 1,882
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree @Pierce2Daniel, it's a wonderful looking film. I've mentioned this previously elsewhere, but this became one of my favourite Bond films quite suddenly when I was a teenager studying for GCSE's and under some pre-exam stress. One cold, dreary London night I recall putting my dad's VHS copy in the player and was immediately transported away to this exotic location with all these beautiful women and charismatic characters. I remember thinking Connery was just too cool and wanted to be like him. Afterwards I felt like I'd had a holiday myself and that positive feeling has sort of stayed with me ever since whenever I view this film.

    Forgot the "holiday aspect" of TB in my comment, @bondjames! The beautiful scenery certainly makes you feel like you've been on a (very) short holiday to a exotic location. Although many Bond films find him in similarly exotic locations, few of the films equals TB to really make you feel it in the same way – if that makes sense.

    TB is really just a great exploration of the escapism of the Bond series.
    It definitely makes sense @Torgeirtrap. I think TB is unique in that respect too. Connery and Auger looking the way they do in their casual gear also adds to that feeling.

    Definitely! The first scene to come to mind re. casual gear for me, is the scene where Bond kills Vargas with the spear gun, while laying casually on the beach next to Domino. Great scene.

    184.jpg
    That's a fantastic scene. It never gets old. Also the one where they come ashore and walk through the beach comes to mind among others. It has a certain casualness combined with panache throughout, which is an unusual combination to get right.

    That's another great example!
    I hope to one day visit the Bahamas, and I wonder how much it's changed since TB (a lot one would imagine, given the age of the film). It would be great to seek out some of the filming locations too.
    I've never been either. It's on my list as are many Bond locations including New Orleans (preferably during Mardi Gras).
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree @Pierce2Daniel, it's a wonderful looking film. I've mentioned this previously elsewhere, but this became one of my favourite Bond films quite suddenly when I was a teenager studying for GCSE's and under some pre-exam stress. One cold, dreary London night I recall putting my dad's VHS copy in the player and was immediately transported away to this exotic location with all these beautiful women and charismatic characters. I remember thinking Connery was just too cool and wanted to be like him. Afterwards I felt like I'd had a holiday myself and that positive feeling has sort of stayed with me ever since whenever I view this film.

    Forgot the "holiday aspect" of TB in my comment, @bondjames! The beautiful scenery certainly makes you feel like you've been on a (very) short holiday to a exotic location. Although many Bond films find him in similarly exotic locations, few of the films equals TB to really make you feel it in the same way – if that makes sense.

    TB is really just a great exploration of the escapism of the Bond series.
    It definitely makes sense @Torgeirtrap. I think TB is unique in that respect too. Connery and Auger looking the way they do in their casual gear also adds to that feeling.

    Definitely! The first scene to come to mind re. casual gear for me, is the scene where Bond kills Vargas with the spear gun, while laying casually on the beach next to Domino. Great scene.

    184.jpg
    That's a fantastic scene. It never gets old. Also the one where they come ashore and walk through the beach comes to mind among others. It has a certain casualness combined with panache throughout, which is an unusual combination to get right.

    I couldn't agree more.

    That was the world of Bond that was created by Terence Young.

    There was a casualness to the sense of luxury, opulence, glamour and sex. There was nothing forced or conceited about it. It never felt stagy or hammy. It had a loose organic feel.

    It welcomed the audience in - never once letting the audience feel as if they were impostors or unwelcome in the splendour of the world. I feel part of this came from the casting of Connery - had someone like Grant, Niven or Moore played the part in TB - they'd accentuate the otherworldliness of it.

    Connery had charm and charisma - but it was marred with a sense of physicality and menace. He was all things to all audience members. Both aspirational and achievable.
    Well put. You're probably right about Grant, Moore or Niven vs. Connery. They didn't have the ruggedness he so readily possessed (when combined with his grace, it was unbeatable). Having said that, I'm wondering if you've seen To Catch A Thief? It's one of my favourite films and there is a sequence in that film set in Cannes with Grant, Grace Kelly and Brigitte Auber which very much reminds me of the Domino intro sequence in TB. It has that same flair to it, but is a bit more posh in that 50's way.

    I have indeed seen it. Recently in fact.

    Hitchcock's style in To Catch A Thief is very present in TB. That sense sense of European wealth and sophistication - mingled with danger and intrigue.

    However, I always feel that Hitchock's style in that film is more elegant and poised. Bond in comparison, is slightly more salacious and scrappy. It's more overtly aware of it's own sexual potency. I don't just mean the women - Sean Connery is equally fetishised throughout the film.
    Yes, I very much agree about the elegance and poise. That's what I was getting at with the poshness remark. It's more 50's in that way. Slightly more old fashioned and regal, which is better suited to Grant and Kelly's sensibilities. TB is more modern. I agree on the Connery fetishism too. I certainly was guilty of thinking he was 'the man' as a kid, and I still do to a degree.

    tbh it's one of the things I like in his portrayal in TB the most. He's got a sense of urgency, duty and efficiency here, whilst still enjoying the setting. For me this is the most Bondian Connery possible.

    The sense of urgency never really came through for me.

    Despite being 'on the clock' with Spectre's demands, Bond is moving at a fairly leisurely pace. The sense of immediacy and peril was better demonstrated in YOLT.

    This is really my main issue with the actual plot of TB - Bond arrives in Nassau and spends an hour just meandering around the island and mildly provoking Largo. We know Largo has the bombs but it takes Bond ages to catch-up. Instead of trying to throw Bond off - Largo just gives him more impetus to query him. A momentum that Bond doesn't really capitalise on till late in the picture.

    I think both TB and YOLT do an admittedly better job with the race against the clock to save the world than later entries such as TSWLM or MR do.

    But YOLT also takes its good old time with superfluous scenes such as training as a ninja and getting married, which Tiger insists on even after Bond stresses "Tiger, we must get to that island," only to be told "just two more days training." Of course, if they went immediately to the island then there wouldn't be that last second blowing up of the SPECTRE space capsule and all that.

    The YOLT villains make as many if not more mistakes thank Largo such as Osato trying to kill Bond after meeting with him. Nothing like piling on the suspicion.

    Blofeld also made a very dumb decision by having his helicopter goons attack Bond in Little Nellie. Bond reports in that there's nothing there but volcanoes and is about to return to base when he's attacked. Blofeld didn't exactly order his execution for that.

    Bond's dalliance with Kissy while climbing the volcano also didn't aid in his investigation. The clock is ticking and he's making out.

    Also, what good did Bond's going undercover as Fisher to visit Osato do to further the investigation? He's a fake businessman wanting to get a license to manufacture. When you also consider how in the world Tiger could set up such an appointment with this top executive seemingly overnight and it is even more puzzling.

    I could probably fill a book with things in YOLT that don't make sense or just happen that we're supposed to just accept probably more so than in any other Bond movie.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Personally I love the Shrublands scenes and the score to it is terrific.
    Adds to the suspense.
    Also some wonderful one-liners in there as well.
  • Love TB!
    The best cast of women in the series, easily.
    All of them are stunning.
    I must now rank:

    1) The staggering and dangerous Paluzzi. Her introduction is like an atom bomb going off, pardon the pun.
    2) Auger is a very close two, number one on some days.
    3) Beswick, who is no slouch and would carry most films on her own.
    4) Molly Peters in the mink scene is just amazing.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Love TB!
    The best cast of women in the series, easily.
    All of them are stunning.
    I must now rank:

    1) The staggering and dangerous Paluzzi. Her introduction is like an atom bomb going off, pardon the pun.
    2) Auger is a very close two, number one on some days.
    3) Beswick, who is no slouch and would carry most films on her own.
    4) Molly Peters in the mink scene is just amazing.

    Totally agree....its the sexiest in the series for sure and sits at #5 in my rankings and i'm sure when I next watch it,it will jump to 4th over QOS.
  • edited January 2019 Posts: 4,400
    I re-watched Thunderball last night (the first time in nearly 10 years). Here are some thoughts:

    __________________________________________________________________

    Introduction:


    After setting the blueprint for the series in Dr No and From Russia With Love, there was a feeling that Goldfinger represented a commercial turning point for the Bond series. There was the sense that the film was more palatable and neutered for consumption by American audiences. Therefore, it’s encouraging that Thunderball returned to the original format with a film more ambitious than the previous three combined.

    I see Thunderball as truly the film where Bond ‘arrived’. The movie expertly marries together Dr No's more brutal nature, with From Russia’s charisma, and Goldfinger's grandiosity. It all comes together capably under the graceful eye of director, Terence Young.

    Thunderball - in the most part - is a entertaining film. Terence Young imbues proceedings with a lavish tone and invites the audience into the the jetset lifestyle of his lead characters. Not to be overly austere, Young never forgets to inject the requisite levels of sex and violence. So whilst the film is polished, there is still an evidently scrappy and juvenile quality at play throughout Young’s Thunderball.

    Nonetheless, despite its charms, there is a slightly disjointed and convoluted approach to the storytelling. Eventually, over the film’s bloated 130 minutes, it becomes clear that the filmmakers have little interest in following character arcs or answering any of their own narrative conundrums.

    The Plot:


    This problem presents itself early on. The pre-title sequence is a tad flat as its mainly there to add a little variation and scope to the film’s location quota and eventually work up to the jetpack gag. Beyond the marvel that the jetpack is actually real and works - the sequence itself hasn’t aged well. Clearly the filmmakers thought that the jetpack’s inclusion was an inspired piece of forward-thinking; a product that was on cusp of being in widespread military use. A proposition that clearly never materialised. Though, you shouldn’t undersell it. After all, that stunt was done for real and the pack actually works.

    We are then thrown into the first act, which is by far the most problematic of the film. The whole reason why Bond is at Scrublands is baffling and his tiresome hazing with Count Lippe (contender for the most perfunctory character in this series) never feels like anything more than schoolyard taunting. I’m unsure how audiences in the 1960s took these scenes. But today they play a little long and narratively feel wholly redundant.

    The whole crux of the first act boils down to Bond finding Francoise Derval’s body and later realising that he could not be the same man who piloted the NATO plane. I feel there must have been a quicker and neater way of reaching this conclusion. I suppose much of your tolerance of this section of the film falls on how much you appreciate Mollie Peters’ brief and gratuitous role.

    However, (despite many differing opinions), I will confess to thoroughly enjoying seeing Largo’s flan come to fruition. Effectively, we are witnessing a heist-film trope play in reverse. The film doesn’t explain what is happening and we slowly see Largo’s devious plan take shape. It’s a thoroughly accomplished piece of filmmaking, mainly as the special effects are terrific. If you told me that Largo hijacked a NATO plane and stole the bombs mid-flight before landing the plan underwater in the Bahamas, I wouldn’t have believed you. Well, it seems Thunderball calls your bluff and goes one further by actually showing you the heist. It’s so convincing and conceivably staged that you have no choice but to believe your eyes. It’s at this point the film begins – a mere 45 minutes into the runtime.

    The Bahamas:

    We are then thrown into the Bahamas, which is as richly glamorous as you’d expect. Young and Ted Moore show the bright opulent beauty of the area, whilst injecting a European sense of elegancy. Nonetheless, he isn’t afraid to celebrate the more salacious aspects of the far-flung locale (which mostly comes in the form of a scantily clad Sean Connery or a woman). The tone and feel of the Bond pictures was really established by filmmakers such as Alfred Hitchock, but Young isn’t afraid to ape that style whilst making it a little more cheeky and kinky.

    Nonetheless, the actual story in the Bahamas is haphazard and shakily told. Soon it becomes clear that the film merely wants to string together a series of set-pieces and confrontations with little regard to building them succinctly on top of each other. Instead, scenes play out with little relation to the sequence before it or after it. Subsequently, narrative momentum is tarnished and characters are introduced only to be neglected. Which is a shame, as the film has a very impressive and somewhat busy supporting cast.

    I think the stodgy narrative may come courtesy of the fact that the audience are ahead of Bond. We know where the plane is and that Largo has the bombs. So we have to sit and watch Bond play catch-up and flaunt around the Bahamas for 90 minutes before catching up. The move slows down any narrative momentum and rids the picture of some drama.

    The most impressive sequences in the Bahamas are the scenes with Bond doing some actual espionage work. I really enjoyed the moments where Bond (decked out in that black polo shirt) is spying on Largo – whether it be casing the Disco Volante at night or stalking Palmyra. It’s great seeing Bond using his trade skills and these sequences are brilliantly tense and thrilling.

    One of the film’s greatest assets is the sumptuous underwater photography. It’s undeniably thrilling when you see Bond underwater – shirtless and with a knife strapped to his heel – whilst a shark casually swims past him. It feels like a shot from a comicbook or the cover of an adventure novel come to life. Furthermore, the fight scenes underwater are terrifically staged and hugely ambitious – even if they eventually they become a tad monotonous. Nonetheless, the ambition and execution cannot be understated.

    The Cast:

    Sean Connery gives his best performance in the series in Thunderball – in fact, his performance makes the more baffling and groanworthy aspects of the film forgivable. He still has that insouciant and charismatic edge mixed with a sense of physical menace. But this time, he also has a much better sense of humour and mischief than he displayed in his previous films. This is the secret ingredient that makes Thunderball really work. Connery is simply having a great time and is making everything feel effortless. In particular, Connery is at his peak of coolness and nonchalance with the girls, who he has terrific chemistry with them.

    Not to mention, it’s the film where he looked the best. His suits are immaculate and his sense of style perfect (except the odd garish beach shirt). Not to mention his physical presence and oozing sex appeal. There is a relaxed and cool nature to his performance; a feeling that he isn’t trying to impress and it all just comes to him naturally.

    It be wrong to say that there is any leading lady in Thunderball – as the film has a pretty stacked supporting ensemble who all get equal billing time opposite Connery. Most impressive is Luciana Paluzzi, who comes close to stealing the picture. She’s just as mischievous and fun as Bond and it’s always genuinely exciting to see Fiona Volpe in the film. It’s no coincidence that ‘Volpe’ means vixen in Italian- as Fiona is a cunning fox of a character. Someone who happily makes love to a man before ruthlessly orchestrating his death. She might take her orders from SPECTRE, but she callously directs her goons to carry out her bidding. She is someone who takes pleasure in using her sexuality for her own ends. She even lures Bond into bed to taunt him and pass the time (growling and clawing at 007) while waiting for her hired hands to arrive. She later launches a withering verbal attack on 007’s vanity and ego, mocking him with his failure to turn her to the side of right and virtue. It's the film's sharpest dialogue.

    Adolofo Celi is perfectly adequate and looks the part of a sleazy, well-fed Sicilian mobster who has a habit for sunbeds. He isn’t quite on the same league as Gert Frobe, but in his defence, Thunderball isn’t overly interested in developing him beyond his piratical tic.

    Then you have Claudine Auger – who is one of the most beautiful women in the world. The character of Domino is a little underserved. She appears to have an emotional arc as she’s a captured woman being manipulated by Largo. There is certainly drama to be mined in the concept of a kept-woman in a loveless relationship with an older man in order to live the high life. Additionally, she has a real frisson with Bond. However, it really isn’t developed enough and the character does disappear into the ensemble. It’s a shame as Domino was maybe a scene or two away from being an interesting character. Auger does rise to the occasion when the material gives her a chance. The MI6 team are a little unnecessary and Rik Van Nutter scarcely registers as Felix.

    Technical and Conclusion:

    In technical notes, the usually faultless John Barry submits a score that is a little spotty and overly bombastic. In the third act, it accentuates the overly repetitive nature of some of the underworld scenes. But the title song by Tom Jones is close to perfection alongside Maurice Binder’s impressive visuals. Ted Moore’s photography is an irresistible lure. Ken Adams, inevitably, does a great job with the production design. Though there is less to marvel at this time out. Peter Hunt’s editing wipes are a little tiresome.

    Meanwhile, the script is patchy and raises illogical question. For example: Why can’t SPECTRE remember who Bond is whilst he’s at Schrublands? Why isn’t Largo shocked by Bond’s arrival on the island? Why does Largo even try to kill Bond and raise more attention to his scheme? Why is Domino so happy to see Bond after he bailed on their date at the Junkanoo? I know these are rather nitpicky concerns, but they do mean that beyond the entertaining nature of the film, it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny on repeat viewings.

    The film is overall a very entertaining and fun picture – I was hoping on repeat viewing to fall head over heels for it. Though, it’s clear that the movie is a ton of fun that is beautifully filmed. Nonetheless, it’s flawed. The real standout is Sean Connery – who gives a great performance, even when the film threatens to overwhelm him with special effects, explosions and underwater tussles (and did I mention sharks?) – he never falls into the background. Thunderball is an ambitious film, perhaps too ambitious.



    I went back and watched a few parts from TB again last night - and feel I may have been a little nitpicky and overly critical in my review on the other page. It's a hugely enjoyable and entertaining movie. It requires very little from the audience aside from hoping they are thoroughly entertained and leave with a grin on their faces.

    It's heaps of fun. I really enjoyed it. Sure, it's lightweight froth - but it's an expertly executed and charming film.

    Also, a few additional thoughts. I was surprised to see that Philip Stone has a very small role as the Spectre agent in the opening meeting in Paris. This was a shock as I recently watched The Shining and he rather iconically played the role of Grady in that film.

    The-Shining-768x432.png

    I'd also like to point out how indelibly cool this photo of Bond and Paula on the speedboat is. For me it perfectly encapsulates the tone of TB - it's chic, glamorous, aspirational, whilst oozing luxury and sex-appeal.

    007-Mission-Files-Thunderball-3.jpg

    Also, could someone confirm me if TB is the only Bond film that doesn't have a 'JAMES BOND WILL RETURN...' at the end.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I have seen a print of TB that features "JAMES BOND WILL RETURN IN ON HER MAJESTY S SECRET SERVICE" at the end.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 754
    If only that happened. (Sigh)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,965
    I'd also like to point out how indelibly cool this photo of Bond and Paula on the speedboat is. For me it perfectly encapsulates the tone of TB - it's chic, glamorous, aspirational, whilst oozing luxury and sex-appeal.
    Good to see you caught on! ;-)

    It's everything Bond should be.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    My second favourite Bond film behind On Her Majesty's Secret Service and the definitive cinematic James Bond film.

    If you ask the average person whether they prefer Goldfinger or Thunderball they will usually say the former due to it's iconography, but to me the latter has and always will be the superior film. Everything from the title sequence to the finale are mesmerising. Sean Connery is at the peak of his powers in this film and his swagger, masculinity and animal-magnetism are undeniable. The dialogue throughout the film is fantastic, but then again who's surprised when you've got Young behind the lens. The duo of Connery and Young is as scintillating as that of Lazenby and Hunt. Young understood what makes a great Bond film as evident in Dr. No and this is no exception. The dialogue is brilliant and Connery delivers one-liner after one-liner in such a way that doesn't feel camp, but rather classic. The cinematography in Thunderball is equivocally some of the best in the series and the underwater scenes were groundbreaking at the time and still hold up today. Bond's style in this film is also one of the best in the series with Connery wearing classic Bondesque pieces such as Wayfarer's and navy polos. John Barry's score is his best behind On Her Majesty's Secret Service and particularly during the underwater scenes are breathtaking. The supporting cast is brilliant with characters such as Fiona Volpe or Domino Derval. The relationship between Bond and Largo is superior to that of Bond and Golfinger and the repartee between the two is some of the best in the franchise. The scene where all the OO agents meet in a single room to discussion the mission, has to be one of the best moments in the series. To me Thunderball is also a film which wasn't afraid to show Bond in danger which I really appreciate.The chase sequence where Connery is being hunted down by Fiona and the Spectre agents stands out to me. I love that following the outlandish gadgetry of the DB5 in Goldfinger that every tool that Bond was given in Thunderball feels grounded in reality, even the Bell Rocket Belt in the title sequence was a legitimate and genuine device developed for the US Army in the 1950's. I could gush about this film for a long time.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    edited March 2020 Posts: 776
    For 24 years, from the time that I first became a Bond fan as a 16-year-old in 1995 thanks to GE, then immediately seeking out older Bond films, starting with Country's, up until late 2019, Thunderball was my favorite Bond film of all. When I joined this forum in 2012, I knew only one username I wanted to go by and was surprised it was available. Though, starting some months ago, Thunderball is no longer my number 1 favorite (Casino Royale now is), I still have a huge love for it. Found in Thunderball is everything I love about James Bond as a cinematic character: gorgeous women, exotic locations, memorable villains and very best Bond actor at his height, full of confidence, a inimitable swagger and a sharpened wit. Oh, and a lush, epic score, courtesy of the brilliant John Barry. Everybody will tell you that Goldfinger is the definitive Bond that has it all. I say Thunderball is the definitive one, and it has everything GF had and much more. When I close my eyes and think of what the most incredibly entertaining Bond film ever could be, I immediately picture Thunderball.
  • Posts: 631
    In John Brosnan’s early 1970s book James Bond in the Cinema (remember that?) he says that Goldfinger is the quintessential Bond film, but I think he’s wrong. It’s Thunderball. Of course it’s Thunderball.
  • Posts: 1,882
    In John Brosnan’s early 1970s book James Bond in the Cinema (remember that?) he says that Goldfinger is the quintessential Bond film, but I think he’s wrong. It’s Thunderball. Of course it’s Thunderball.

    GF is admittedly the film that started the spy boom and TB was the big bang at its peak. I think the two films can coincide together in their importance to the series and pop culture. I really think it was YOLT that pushed it over the edge.

    Yeah, I read a lot of criticisms of TB being the point where the gadgets and machinery start to take over, but Connery really is the glue that holds it all together.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,938
    I love this flawed film. Could it be the crush I had on my dear un-cooperative Domino? :) Could it be the fact that Connery just owns the scenes and the screen. He's in top form. Could it be the John Barry score which really does a nice job of providing atmosphere to the water scenes? Yes to all of these things.

    Add in the devilish Fiona Volpe and the rest of S.P.E.C.T.R.E and you have the makings of a great stand off and chase through the junkanoo.

    The flaws of this film are many and yet I can overlook most. The hijacking of the plane takes up a ton of time, or maybe it just feels like it did. The searching for the plane is another waste of time. Why would Largo keep the bombs on the plane? Of course he wouldn't so why look for it. Oh just so Bond can provide the dog tags and effects to Domino? The gadgets aren't as impressive here and really don't serve the film well in terms of science. A pill that will be picked up on a radar? Who much radiation is in that thing? A re-breather that looks like it holds about 30 seconds of air?

    But for all that I still love this film and would always have it in my top 5.
  • Posts: 1,882
    thedove wrote: »
    The flaws of this film are many and yet I can overlook most. The hijacking of the plane takes up a ton of time, or maybe it just feels like it did. The searching for the plane is another waste of time. Why would Largo keep the bombs on the plane? Of course he wouldn't so why look for it. Oh just so Bond can provide the dog tags and effects to Domino? The gadgets aren't as impressive here and really don't serve the film well in terms of science. A pill that will be picked up on a radar? Who much radiation is in that thing? A re-breather that looks like it holds about 30 seconds of air?

    The thing I will say about the gadgets is at least he doesn't just have them by coincidence - I'm looking at you, convenient mini safecracker from YOLT - and Q equips them to be a necessary part of his mission. The radioactive pill is questionable, especially since Bond had a homer in the previous mission, but the rebreather was impressive enough that actual defense officials supposedly called Peter Lamont to ask how it worked. The jet pack, yeah, you could argue it was, but that was the pretitles, so I'm looking more at the film proper.

    And Bond still had to use his wits to survive in the most perilous things he faced in the film, the gadgets weren't a cop-out way of his survival. I think back to the explosive pen of TB remake NSNA saving Bond from Fatima Blush.

    Searching for the plane was necessary to confirm the suspicions of Largo having hijacked it. Having the evidence of Domino's brother's belongings helps, so it wasn't a flimsy excuse. Plus we get to see Golden Grotto sharks and a clue from earlier in the film when Largo mentions it is put into play. It works for me, at least. I just always loved that footage of the clear water and the eeriness of the dive into the plane. It captures some of what Fleming wrote, one of his most effective passages.

  • Posts: 230
    TB has hovered between #2 and #6 for me for years. If about 10 minutes were shaved-off between the bomb hiding scene+ final underwater battle, it would probably move to #1.

    I have no problems with the Shrublands sequence.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081


    I love how even moments that don't particularly stand out in the iconography of Thunderball when one immediately thinks of the film are brilliant. I love the OO briefing and the scale of the Ken Adams set is awesome.
  • Posts: 1,882
    Octopussy wrote: »


    I love how even moments that don't particularly stand out in the iconography of Thunderball when one immediately thinks of the film are brilliant. I love the OO briefing and the scale of the Ken Adams set is awesome.
    I do too. It really stands out in the series as there's never been another type of scene like it with a meeting of defense personnel (usually it's just Bond and a handful of others) and all the 00s, that tapestry revealing the positions and I love Blofeld's voice on the tape "My dear prime minister..." Eric Pohlman's voice talent really added to his portrayal of No. 1.
  • Posts: 14,816
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »


    I love how even moments that don't particularly stand out in the iconography of Thunderball when one immediately thinks of the film are brilliant. I love the OO briefing and the scale of the Ken Adams set is awesome.
    I do too. It really stands out in the series as there's never been another type of scene like it with a meeting of defense personnel (usually it's just Bond and a handful of others) and all the 00s, that tapestry revealing the positions and I love Blofeld's voice on the tape "My dear prime minister..." Eric Pohlman's voice talent really added to his portrayal of No. 1.

    Love that scene. I always wondered why Pohlmann never played Blofeld in the flesh, I'm YOLT or OHMSS. Was he a much better voice actor than "plain" actor? Did he lack physical presence?
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,965
    Still enjoying that clip. The best 'banter' between M and Bond as well.

    Do you know where she's now?
    Nassau, sir.
    Do you think she's worth going after?
    I wouldn't quite put it that way, sir.

    Love it.
  • Posts: 1,882
    Ludovico wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »


    I love how even moments that don't particularly stand out in the iconography of Thunderball when one immediately thinks of the film are brilliant. I love the OO briefing and the scale of the Ken Adams set is awesome.
    I do too. It really stands out in the series as there's never been another type of scene like it with a meeting of defense personnel (usually it's just Bond and a handful of others) and all the 00s, that tapestry revealing the positions and I love Blofeld's voice on the tape "My dear prime minister..." Eric Pohlman's voice talent really added to his portrayal of No. 1.

    Love that scene. I always wondered why Pohlmann never played Blofeld in the flesh, I'm YOLT or OHMSS. Was he a much better voice actor than "plain" actor? Did he lack physical presence?
    Not sure how he looked in the early '60s, but the only film I've seen Pohlman physically in was Return of the Pink Panther from 1975 in which he played a bad guy and he was a very large, overweight man. Reminds me a bit of perennial '60s TV and movie villain Victor Buono.

    Still enjoying that clip. The best 'banter' between M and Bond as well.

    Do you know where she's now?
    Nassau, sir.
    Do you think she's worth going after?
    I wouldn't quite put it that way, sir.

    Love it.

    What I also like in that scene is how quick M shuts down the military officer when he doubts Bond's story about the dead Derval, although I can't blame the guy at the same time as "Derval" was seen boarding the Vulcan. Same later in the film when the snooty foreign secretary dismisses Bond's hunches.

    One of the many things I like about Lee's M was he was able to stand up to Bond and keep him in check when necessary, but quick to praise or defend him in front of others; I think of the scene after going to Drax's empty lab in MR in front of an angry Frederick Gray or in front of Gogol in TWSLM. It's these scenes that make me so much less impressed with Dench's M. It's this sense that makes me so much less impressed with Judi Dench's M, who seemed more intent on putting Bond down although he was saving face for her over and over.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Still enjoying that clip. The best 'banter' between M and Bond as well.

    Do you know where she's now?
    Nassau, sir.
    Do you think she's worth going after?
    I wouldn't quite put it that way, sir.

    Love it.

    +1

    This might sound odd, but Connery's hair in Goldfinger always irritated me, whereas it's spot on in Thunderball.
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